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Tom Clancy is Dead
Jul 13, 2011

I like Standard Singleton, and I like it a lot more than Brawl. Yeah there is some more variance, but there are a lot of interesting board states and interactions to work through as well. I don’t think I’d want to play serious tournaments in it, but it’s a fun casual format. Brawl gets too defined around the commander IMO and loses a lot of the variety while keeping the variance.

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Tom Clancy is Dead
Jul 13, 2011

Kanister is hogaaking people in Vintage now

Edit: also i’ve been traveling but has the thread discussed how disgusting Oko seems?

Tom Clancy is Dead
Jul 13, 2011

AnEdgelord posted:

Oko is good but I really want to see a few more food enablers/payoffs first before I want to play it over some of the other options in standard.

Though it is one of the cleanest answers to the God-eternals so maybe thats enough.

Does it need anything else? It’s really hard to attack down, gives you life and/or blockers if they don’t, removes hard to deal with threats, and dominates an empty or stalled board. It seems generically great to me

Tom Clancy is Dead fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Sep 7, 2019

Tom Clancy is Dead
Jul 13, 2011

With the rise of UR Phoenix?

Tom Clancy is Dead
Jul 13, 2011

Hellsau posted:

lol what, Heartbeat Combo was the best deck in Standard for a time, it was just nearly impossible to play perfectly.

Heartbeat wasn’t a clear best deck for long - Ghost Husk was at minimum a very close rival once bw adapted into that from Hand in Hand and Ghost Dad.

Tom Clancy is Dead
Jul 13, 2011

suicidesteve posted:

The reason seems to be because.

Seriously. You can't cascade into other split cards with BBE because it sees them as the combination of their costs. These ones are different because.

It’s different because the adventure part is sub the other card. So you don’t combine cmc, it’s only a creature, etc. But you choose which to cast when casting.

Tom Clancy is Dead
Jul 13, 2011

Plague Engineer is a persistent effect on a creature that can also attack or trade with whatever as needed thanks to the deathtouch, and it has an easier casting cost. It’s a lot less situational and maybe even a little more powerful than a one-shot wrath effect.

Tom Clancy is Dead
Jul 13, 2011

Elyv posted:



this set is remarkably wordy

This seems good? Hasty tokens every turn is legit, I kept looking for the “sac at eot” clause

AngryBooch posted:

Really don't like the at Random here. Needed to be a choice and to do it on ETB as well as upkeep.

I think that would be format defining

Tom Clancy is Dead
Jul 13, 2011

Hellsau posted:

Why does this card cost double white, yet among the 6 abilities on the creatures, only 1 is a white ability?

Because making creature tokens every turn is white, black, green, red in that order? (Or maybe b and g flipped)

Tom Clancy is Dead
Jul 13, 2011

Hmmm is the self-hate black card playable MD even without a way of abusing exile (in Standard)? It's usually a 2 for 1 against you but it's an exiling Thoughtseize. And oh man if you are playing against a deck where what you want to take is black.

Tom Clancy is Dead
Jul 13, 2011

It seems good in draft but I have a hard time seeing it in constructed. It has the Teferi problem, if nothing else.

Tom Clancy is Dead
Jul 13, 2011


Just as History rotates.

Tom Clancy is Dead
Jul 13, 2011

It’s not even good to icencrag out. I’d much rather rush out something proactive that’ll win me the game if I’m putting that in my deck.

Tom Clancy is Dead
Jul 13, 2011

There aren’t many constructed level ways of generating lots of food.

Tom Clancy is Dead
Jul 13, 2011

Jabor posted:

I think the 2-mana counter/removal is mostly going to replace the 3-mana counterspells.

I’m not as convinced. Without mill to enable it, it doesn’t counter anything on curve. It’s probably fine against faster decks that try to double spell early but might be quite bad against the midrange decks with powerful 4 and 5s. Which would make it almost the inverse of the 3 mana counters.

Tom Clancy is Dead
Jul 13, 2011

Huxley posted:

You know what's starting to bum met out? The realization that Once Upon a Time must not be part of a cycle.

Maybe they couldn't make interesting ones for other colors without being busted.

Tom Ross said it was a Modern Horizons card that got bumped for more room for the snow theme.

Tom Clancy is Dead
Jul 13, 2011

I think Drown in the Loch is probably worth playing, but it's not an easy substitution for 3 mana counters, and it doesn't play the roles of 2 mana removal or 2 mana counter. I also like Vantress Gargoyle pretty well as a speedbump/threat, and they play pretty well together.

Tom Clancy is Dead
Jul 13, 2011

Cauldron is a reanimation spell you can play from your GY using Emry. IDK if that's going to come together into anything, but seems like an interaction worth being aware of.

Tom Clancy is Dead
Jul 13, 2011

Tibalt posted:

I feel like 2BBB no-clause reanimation spell might be good enough for Standard, yeah.

It's not. Bond of Revival has seen some borderline play in tier 3 stuff, and Cauldron involves more hoops, more B, and a downside instead of a big upside. You have to reanimate multiple times for it to be worth playing, maybe along with taking advantage of it being high CMC, an artifact, or both.

Tom Clancy is Dead
Jul 13, 2011

Lone Goat posted:

I didn't see anything cheaper that 3 yet, that dumbass apprentice only mills your opponent.

Related, does anyone know a way to tell scryfall to search for standard 2020 or am I forever doomed to type (e:eld or e:grn or e:war or e:m20) for the rest of eternity for 2 weeks?

You want f:future. I don't think they have a tag for the Arena format Standard 2020 without Eldraine though.

Vantress Gargoyle is a bit slow as a self-mill enabler but also helps slow down the game.

Tom Clancy is Dead
Jul 13, 2011

evilweasel posted:

i know, but it's not a deck that's really jonesing for a handful of extra damage from attackers. you're activating this on turn four or later, at which point you probably don't have any attackers that can get through on the ground unless they're sacrificing themselves for the cavalade ping (in which case 1/1 or 2/1 is not a big difference in most cases) or it's the one mana nearly unblockable guy (in which case you're activating this on turn five or later for not a lot of effect since you probably only have one or two of those guys, and you've probably already lost)

it's got nearly no deckbuilding cost so it being useful 5% or less of the time isn't the worst thing in the world but its very rarely gonna do all that much

I think it's more useful than it looks in that deck. There'll be times where it lets you attack because blocks become bad, there'll be times where you don't get your other good payoff cards and this serves as some glue in the meantime. IDK if you can play the full 4, since curving out is important, but at least a couple seem very good.

Owlbear Camus posted:

E: Rakdoz Aggro-risticrats feels on the verge of breaking out in the new standard to me, as well.

The cards seem quite good, the mana pretty bad.

No Wave posted:

The green land is really good. Would green decks be better if everything over 5 mana cost 1 less? yes. You can also use it to cast two three drops.

If you're not monogreen and playing 1 mana accelerants or other green 1 drops, you probably can't afford to play this. And how much more often is it a discount than if it was a Forest for Nissa anyway?

Tom Clancy is Dead
Jul 13, 2011

There are Gilded Goose and Arboreal Grazer.

Tom Clancy is Dead
Jul 13, 2011

No Wave posted:

"what if mono green doesnt have enough mana after casting nissa" is not a real concern.

You can absolutely afford to play it in mono green. It's free mana. 1-of for sure, 2-of probably, dont have to do much more.

Responding to a post starting with "If you're not monogreen" with "but monogreen doesn't have any issues" is maybe missing the point a bit.

Draxion posted:

The "downside" for it not being a forest after playing Nissa is basically just that it now basically taps for two mana just like all your other stuff, too

It's not a downside, it's a reduction of the upside. The downside is issues curving out, by not being an untapped source on t1 and awkward hands with multiples or just these and temples and offcolor lands. You balance the downside against the upside, so if the upside is reduced the cost might not be worth paying.

Tom Clancy is Dead fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Sep 17, 2019

Tom Clancy is Dead
Jul 13, 2011

kurona_bright posted:

Wrt adventure matter cards being only good in draft: I feel like that’s pretty often the case though. Have any surveil-matters or historic matters cards seen standard play?

Disinformation Campaign was played a bit. Teshar and Rona were played. I think Edgewall Inkeeper could potentially get there from this set, a 1 drop that draws cards is pretty interesting if it gets the support it needs.

Elyv posted:

I think giant killer and the wrath are both at least acceptable cards. there's probably been others too, I don't remember all the adventures offhand



white land in cycle, 2WW, T: make a 1/1 Human

Those are the only potential constructed level white adventures I remember. Green has Beanstalk Giant and Lovestruck Beast with some potential. All four black knights could be potentially playable though.

This seems like the best of the lands to me, with black pretty close. There are very few white decks that don't want a bonus token generator late.

Tom Clancy is Dead
Jul 13, 2011

Realm-Cloaked Giant doesn't get hit by Duress/Negate, it might be very good.

Tom Clancy is Dead
Jul 13, 2011

GrandpaPants posted:

Can't it be negated if you send it on an adventure?

Oh true, I got excited about Duress and extrapolated poorly. It's just Duress that it dodges then.

Tom Clancy is Dead
Jul 13, 2011

evilweasel posted:

well not again. well, not after that one. or that one. or that other one. but surely that last one was the last mistake!

Ancient Tomb, Academy, Cradle, Cabal Coffers, Mishra's, Urza's, Cloudpost, Nykthos, Eye? Am I missing any? E Temple was probably fine but for Eye.

Tom Clancy is Dead
Jul 13, 2011


sit on my Facebook posted:

uhhh

so about that whole "adventure payoffs are only gonna be good in limited" discussion from before

Hmm, this is slow. I don't think my GB Adventure Knights is interested in this. I'll try it though, double downfall seems pretty strong.

Tom Clancy is Dead
Jul 13, 2011

Elyv posted:

there's also a 1/1 for G that draws you a card for every creature who has an adventure that you play, there's potentially enough powerful payoffs to try to build around in constructed

Edgewall Inkeeper, that's what my GB knights deck is built around. But I slanted pretty aggressive, with this it might be better to go with a slower grindier build.

Tom Clancy is Dead
Jul 13, 2011

Sampatrick posted:

its an enchantment removal spell, thats so anti-green imo

Isn’t there a turn to treefolk enchantment removal in green already?

Tom Clancy is Dead
Jul 13, 2011

Tainen posted:

This seems super strong



Yup.

flatluigi posted:

instant speed overrun and a monogreen draw a bunch card stapled together is pretty sweet

It seems very good in the less interactive matches and very bad in the more interactive matches.

Tom Clancy is Dead
Jul 13, 2011

YggdrasilTM posted:

You are seriously underestimating how powerful instant overrun effects are in limited, even against interactive decks.

I am seriously not evaluating the card for limited.

Tom Clancy is Dead
Jul 13, 2011

Tainen posted:

This seems super strong



The loop with Cryptic Command is interesting, this probably sees 1 copy in Modern UW. It's fetchable.

Tom Clancy is Dead
Jul 13, 2011

AlternateNu posted:

Oddly, this could take the place of Tomb Scour in dredge decks since it is also a cheap blocker late game when you're trying to stall out for a finishing Chill or Conflagrate.

I think that's less important than 5 cards until/unless they start running something that counts creatures in GY.

Tom Clancy is Dead
Jul 13, 2011

I wonder if Green will get another potentially playable adventure. It seems like all the other colors are better at it in constructed.

Tom Clancy is Dead
Jul 13, 2011

Froghammer posted:

Lovestruck Beast will probably see play, as will Beanstalk Giant

They might. Even if they do, Green is probably the worst adventure color in constructed.

MikeCrotch posted:

Green will be fine

Sure, I just think it’s weird that Green is the worst in constructed at a Green limited mechanic, and that Edgewall Inkeeper feels pushed for constructed but without support.

Tom Clancy is Dead
Jul 13, 2011

No spectator mode? Come on.

Tom Clancy is Dead
Jul 13, 2011

Anil Dasharez0ne posted:

Is there any particular reason they can't/won't do Eternal-style asynchronous drafting?

The concept of wheeling in mtg drafts is too important to them to give up.

Tom Clancy is Dead
Jul 13, 2011

Kanister is playing the Modern challenge with PO Urza. It's pretty sweet. If only his music was too.

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Tom Clancy is Dead
Jul 13, 2011

Kanister is now double queued playing the semifinals of both Modern and Vintage challenges.

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