Who watches the Watchmen? thread

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > Who watches the Watchmen? thread

Wolfsheim: Dec 23, 2003; "Ah," Ratz had said, at last, "the artiste."

Empress Brosephine posted:

I for one , go to the show involving a fantasy world where a giant squid kills millions of people for my political commentary

This is an incredible take on watchmen in general, a real hall of famer

# ¿ Nov 4, 2019 20:30

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 00:11

Wolfsheim: Dec 23, 2003; "Ah," Ratz had said, at last, "the artiste."

Nail Rat posted:

You can come up with an explanation for anybody to say that line if they had any connection to Rorschach if that's the way you're going to draw the connection. Rorschach never even said it, he wrote it in his journal. It wasn't even remotely close to the actual event of his death (in terms of the story, at least). Also, there's no reason to think Dr. Manhattan ever cared enough to teleport to Earth to read the journal after it was published. He wasn't even in the presence of Rorschach after he wrote that line (until he dropped the second draft of his journal off before heading to Antarctica). So it's not like he just happened to speedread the journal after merking him either.

Not to mention it's not even that good of a line on its own, as it would be in a reprinted journal of questionable authenticity. It's the imagery of the Comedian meeting his end, with the curtains being when he splatters on the ground.

There is no explanation that makes sense at all. She's telling a joke so the writers thought "ooh let's make a callback."

See this is why its funny to me that that one guy said you could watch this show without knowing the source material. Like, you could probably get along fine with the weird and cool cop show where everyone wears a mask and it has confusing politics, but all these kinda half-assed references and easter eggs would feel like a confusing mess, and much of the show very much assumes you know the general arc of the story and Manhattan's deal and all that.

This is to say nothing of being faithful to the source or characters or whatever which so far is a mixed bag at best but I cant imagine trying to piece together all the non-cop drama parts based on what the show alone gives you.

# ¿ Nov 5, 2019 21:12

Wolfsheim: Dec 23, 2003; "Ah," Ratz had said, at last, "the artiste."

Origami Dali posted:

Episode was the same quality as the rest of the series, for better or worse, and does no disservice to the comic or the lovely movie. These complainers are tripping rear end.

It's pretty funny that everyone saying that surely the cops versus racists thing was gonna be more than it is ended up being wrong because it really was just set dressing for a kooky comic plot about villains using their tachyon cannon to steal Manhattan's god powers with science. Like taking away the clunky connections to the comic and whatever arguments we could have about mischaracterization/etc its unfortunate that a show which had some really strong racial themes going is kind of pushing that aside to make the climax "what if you dated a god with amnesia and then used bad time travel to kill your boss by mistake"

So I guess its accurate that this episode was the same quality as the others in that it retroactively made them dumber?

The looking glass episode was a definite high point though!

# ¿ Dec 9, 2019 08:51

Wolfsheim: Dec 23, 2003; "Ah," Ratz had said, at last, "the artiste."

ElNarez posted:

considering the subject matter, this is the episode that's gonna make or break the show, because you can't say "oh yeah so Jon Osterman decided to live as Cal Abar" without raising some serious questions

I was reading backwards in the thread to see if my hot take was in fact ice cold and got to this post from before it aired and :laffo:

that the show really did just kinda go "oh yeah so Jon Osterman decided to live as Cal Abar"

# ¿ Dec 9, 2019 09:05

Wolfsheim: Dec 23, 2003; "Ah," Ratz had said, at last, "the artiste."

emanresu tnuocca posted:

I'm disappointed that this super hero show wound up being a super hero show with a time travel twist instead of solving race relations in america.

It took longer than I expected for the "you're stupid for thinking the race stuff in the show was anything other than set dressing, the real twist was that it was the KKK with mind control and God-capture cannons and time travel goofs the whole time!"

But like...I kinda liked the show about the black cop who has unintentionally followed in the footsteps of her grandfather in both wearing a mask and fighting racial injustice. I thought it was a neat arc because racial issues are kinda sidestepped in the original comic so seeing them as front and center was a novle way of handling it. I was curious about what he was planning and how HJ's past ties into it and why he waited decades to reveal himself....and the answer is "oh he was just sitting around when dr. manhattan just showed up and told him all this by accident just before putting the amnesia stick in his own brain." Oh. Cool, I guess.

This also kinda cheapens Angela's whole deal because she's basically ignoring the fact that her husband is a literal timebomb that's gonna go off really soon to just be a super cop. And you can explain it away by saying she was ignoring it to focus on the task at hand or hoping she could uncover the plot to stop it but it doesn't really mesh that well with the plot and how she's reacting to it prior to this twist? And it seems like it didn't really matter because it makes her being a super cop less important to the plot than her being Manhattan's wife who says the wrong thing at the wrong time?

It just kinda leaves a bad taste in my mouth and feels like it squandered its potential. Is this what people felt like with Lost? I never watched it.

# ¿ Dec 9, 2019 18:12

Wolfsheim: Dec 23, 2003; "Ah," Ratz had said, at last, "the artiste."

In one of the infamous unfilmed Watchmen screenplays it starts with them fighting terrorists on the Statue of Liberty and ends up with Adrian's master plan being a time wormhole to shoot Dr. Manhattan as a baby so he never becomes a god and then at the end Laurie, Dan and Rorshach end up in the real world and I can't help but feel it's a little more respectable than Watchmen the show because it lets you know upfront you're in for a dumb comic book ride instead of masquerading as something interesting for awhile

# ¿ Dec 9, 2019 18:25

Wolfsheim: Dec 23, 2003; "Ah," Ratz had said, at last, "the artiste."

Its hosed up that I didn't make the Bioshock Infinite connection sooner and it's even more hosed up the same guy said he liked Bioshock Infinite :wtc:

Zaphod42 posted:

Lmao the show spends one episode on something different and suddenly you're ready to write it off completely? One episode about Angela and Manhattan doesn't unmake all the past episodes my dude, that's a weird take. Its still that show. Its very likely that racial issues will come up again in the future, the 7K are still the antagonists.

Plus, Manhattan is loving dead. So... if you're so upset about the show spending some time on him.... GOOD NEWS!

He's proven to her that he can see the future. I'm not sure what good it would be worrying about the "time bomb" ? If he can't see the future perfectly, then maybe there isn't going to be a tragedy. If he's right... then there is, and there's nothing you can do about it. But also, Angela doesn't know what the tragic end to their relationship is exactly, so acting like Manhattan himself is a time bomb seems, wrong?

What would you have Angela do? She's the one who wanted him to be human in the first place. You're saying she should have taken away the amnesia sooner and used him to conquer Earth and overthrow the 7K or something? That's not Angela. That's not Manhattan.

Lost spent loving years saying "there's a secret, see if you can figure it out!" and then ended with "we've got nothing". To compare Lost to a single episode of Watchmen not being about racial issues is loving hilarious. What are you smoking?

I mean...there's one more episode and the showrunners said that this plot is wrapped up. And we know that episode is gonna be about tachyon cages and God-stealing powers and super clocks and presumably a golden Adrian coming back to life or whatever.

I guess they could be lying about this episode wrapping up Angela's life or season two could be them trying again to do racial issues in a different setting without it instead really being about time traveling gods but I don't really think they have time to do much with it in an hour next week.

# ¿ Dec 9, 2019 18:35

Wolfsheim: Dec 23, 2003; "Ah," Ratz had said, at last, "the artiste."

GoGoGadgetChris posted:

There's nothing left for LG to do. His story has been told and it'll be utterly pointless to bring him back

You could say the same about Manhattan or really the entire Watchmen series and welp :laffo:

Also they literally did a "he killed all these guys and escaped" scene of course they're gonna bring him back? Like....you think he just won't show up again after a scene explicitly showing him alive? Were you one of those 'they made it so obvious that the clone manor guy was Adrian that there is no way it really is Adrian' guys?

# ¿ Dec 9, 2019 18:44

Wolfsheim: Dec 23, 2003; "Ah," Ratz had said, at last, "the artiste."

Sleeveless posted:

We live in an age where there is more good TV than anyone could actually watch, going out of your way to waste a dozen hours of your life on a show you hate just so you can smirk to yourself and crow to a bunch of anonymous strangers online about how much better and smarter you are then them for not liking it is some emotional self harm mental illness poo poo.

It's possible that people liked the show when it started then it started having a lot of unsatisfying twists that made it worse as a whole and it's also possible that not liking those twists isnt a sign of mental illness my man

# ¿ Dec 9, 2019 19:02

Wolfsheim: Dec 23, 2003; "Ah," Ratz had said, at last, "the artiste."

President Redford is up there turning the squid lever

I also like that Adrian's imprisonment is basically a prank? Like Manhattan didn't really tell him that the clones are all mentally impaired and it kinda sucks? Just lots of hilarious revelations all around this episode

# ¿ Dec 9, 2019 19:31

Wolfsheim: Dec 23, 2003; "Ah," Ratz had said, at last, "the artiste."

I don't normally hang out in TVIV, was the thread for the last season of sherlock this funny

# ¿ Dec 9, 2019 20:23

Wolfsheim: Dec 23, 2003; "Ah," Ratz had said, at last, "the artiste."

crazy cloud posted:

lol ok you just don't get watchmen

the entire point of the character of dr manhattan is that power fantasy is ultimately unfulfilling, because even absolute power attained is unsatisfying. you don't understand the story because you've missed it. that's okay not everything is for everybody

This show is too smart for you people I insist as the KKK fires up their mind control gun

# ¿ Dec 9, 2019 21:02

Wolfsheim: Dec 23, 2003; "Ah," Ratz had said, at last, "the artiste."

It kinda owns that even the two best episodes of the show have one absolutely dumb thing each

In the HJ episode it's that the KKK came up with mind control tech in the 30s only for it to never ever be used or developed or mentioned ever again outside of one very specific instance 90 years later, and in the LG episode its that Adrian recorded mycrimes.mov and sent it to the empty-suit actor president he was using to further his goals and just kinda assumed he could keep the secret

# ¿ Dec 9, 2019 21:07

Wolfsheim: Dec 23, 2003; "Ah," Ratz had said, at last, "the artiste."

zoux posted:

They should limit the number of sockpuppets Alan Moore is allowed to register

that you think moore would use a computer instead of a doing a blood sacrifice curse from his cave

# ¿ Dec 9, 2019 22:38

Wolfsheim: Dec 23, 2003; "Ah," Ratz had said, at last, "the artiste."

^^^ hahaha :hfive:

Tender Bender posted:

Yeah, Lindelof loves the book.

Like, skimming it or reading the wiki summary or something :confused:

# ¿ Dec 10, 2019 00:56

Wolfsheim: Dec 23, 2003; "Ah," Ratz had said, at last, "the artiste."

Necrothatcher posted:

Literally the entire episode up to this point is beating you over the head with how Dr M perceives time.

Its not quite right though, is it? Like it apes the format of that issue as well as it could but Dr. Manhattan is still a man who makes mistakes and can be caught off guard by something like the cancer hoax or can become attracted to Laurie through a chance meeting or forget to give her breathable air on Mars. But it doesn't do the "hes only leaving his first girlfriend because he knows he will leave his first girlfriend" thing. It's like the writer became so fixated on that one bit where he tells Laurie he knows she's sleeping with Dan twenty minutes before she tells him that he decided to make his entire character and the entire show structured around that concept when it doesn't really...mesh?

I dunno, I've never seen Lost but it seems more like the guy just loves that closed-loop time travel idea and decided to do it becuase he liked doing it on Lost so he just kinda tacked it onto the time-is-relative character?

# ¿ Dec 10, 2019 01:58

Wolfsheim: Dec 23, 2003; "Ah," Ratz had said, at last, "the artiste."

Intel&Sebastian posted:

Manhattan doesn't change future events often, generally because he doesn't "care" but also because the way that he sees it there is no "changing". He's experiencing it all simultaneously and sometimes he comments on it, sometimes he sort of looks like he's changing something but he's not really. His conception of "future" events is always informed by the totality of what he's always done and has always known that he's done/going to do.

See: the scene where Comedian gets his face slashed in the comic

No like I get how Manhattan works but narratively he only really works because he's a passive observer. He doesn't care enough to stop Blake getting slashed or to save the pregnant woman Blake shoots right after in response. But he also falls in love with Laurie and falls out of love with Jane because he is still a man and still an rear end in a top hat and neither event occurs because he saw himself falling in love with Laurie later so he approached her years earlier/etc etc. It just doesn't really mesh with his character and you can't even really say the events of Watchmen changed him because the whole point is that he's the one character who emotionally can't change based on the way the show writes him.

GoGoGadgetChris posted:

Time travel is a popular trope because the plot holes can be explained with either "who cares lmao" or "there's no plot hole you're just not SMART enough"

I knew they would do it this way but as Manhattan was narrating everything happening to him I wanted him to go "I'm experiencing all time at once. Well, okay, moments from the next ten years and also my secret European childhood and not the 60s-80s, that was a whole other separate thing I was experiencing all at once that we don't have time to get into, but yeah, I'm the time guy, that's my thing."

# ¿ Dec 10, 2019 02:21

Wolfsheim: Dec 23, 2003; "Ah," Ratz had said, at last, "the artiste."

Arglebargle III posted:

Also I can't quite put my finger on it but I also don't think the time loop thing should be possible with Dr. M. As we confirmed in the bedroom scene, he does actually need other people to act in order for him to perceive their actions. He may know that someone is going to say something in the future, but I don't think he could evoke that from them ten years in the past and then carry on a conversation across ten years scrambling both past and future.

I don't have a bulletproof argument for why that should be though.

Like in the comics, he tells Laurie he knows she slept with Dan, because she will tell him in 20 minutes, but he doesn't get mad at her until she tells him 20 minutes later.

Yeah I think this is kinda what I was getting at. He knows he will fall for Laurie and leave his first girlfriend, but he does it when he meets Laurie not years earlier because he knows eventually he will fall for her and retroactively make that decision. Him being in love with Angela, a person he doesn't know, because he will fall in love with her ten years later doesn't really...follow how he lived his entire life before this?

Looking forward to the "shut up nerd idiot time travel isnt real they did a psychic squid it's all magic" response from the OP though!

# ¿ Dec 10, 2019 02:33

Wolfsheim: Dec 23, 2003; "Ah," Ratz had said, at last, "the artiste."

Arist posted:

For real though, my point is, people are getting hung up on poo poo that really doesn't matter at all. The mechanics of the fantasy are pointless. You're not a better person for understanding them. And if subverting them helps the story, what does it matter?

"Just turn off your brain and enjoy it" for Watchmen, hahaha goddamn man

SpiderHyphenMan posted:

There is no "will." There is no "before" there is no "after" there is no "later" there is no "earlier." He understands that these concepts exist for normal people and communicates using them for their benefit, but he does not personally experience them. This is true in the comic, and it's just as true in the show.

But...he does experience them. He gets angry when he thinks he gave his ex cancer. He accidentally forgets to give air Laurie breathable atmosphere because he's preoccupied. He is sad when Laurie confesses to cheating, and surprised that her family revelations have made him rethink humanity.

He may know he is about to receive this information because he isn't experiencing time linearly but he still reacts as a man would in the moment when it is happening. Its distinctly different from knowing the information ahead of time and preparing yourself emotionally to act upon it ten years in advance.

I guess I would say they got close but didn't really pin it down? It seems nitpicky but when you retroactively make him the lynchpin of the entire plot it's hard not to notice.

# ¿ Dec 10, 2019 02:56

Wolfsheim: Dec 23, 2003; "Ah," Ratz had said, at last, "the artiste."

Nieuw Amsterdam posted:

“If being Dr Manhattan is making you unhappy, why not just stop being Dr Manhattan” is a pretty profound question with a complicated answer worth exploring.

But the only reason he loves her is because he is Dr. Manhattan and saw that he eventually would aaaaauuuuugggghhhhhh the whole idea could've been done better and still undercuts the racial-injustice-as-explored-through-black-law-enforcement thing it was doing before this that actually seemed to be driving towards something (well, something other than blue ex machina)

They also don't actually show why she would love him back (since it just cuts to later in the relationship) so it still feels incomplete but I could see them doing something with that in the finale so I won't count that out yet.

# ¿ Dec 10, 2019 03:04

Wolfsheim: Dec 23, 2003; "Ah," Ratz had said, at last, "the artiste."

SpiderHyphenMan posted:

He observes chronology and is able to discuss events in those terms. He doesn't experience it.
When Dr. Manhattan tells someone "here's what's going to happen," it means the same drat thing as when he says "here's what happened." To him, both those things, and indeed all the things, are "what's happening right "now."" There are no memories for Doctor Manhattan.

But like...he does experience things. He reacts to things. He's not a completely unknowable godhead passively observing all time at once (sidenote: Alan Moore does this in Promothea when some of the characters die and eventually enter heaven and it's cool as gently caress).

I mean I guess he kinda is in this? But in the original comic he is absolutely a lonely dude who chases hotties and becomes increasingly isolated by his situation, regardless of what order hes experiencing these moments in.

# ¿ Dec 10, 2019 03:22

Wolfsheim: Dec 23, 2003; "Ah," Ratz had said, at last, "the artiste."

Adun posted:

But this reads like you’re trying to say point A leads to point B (well in this case point B leads to point A) when the comics and the show (“I’ve always loved you”) is saying that for Dr. Manhattan point A and point B (and every point in his life) exist simultaneously

But then in the context of the show he should still be in love with Laurie too but he was unwilling to change for her? Or he didn't actually care about Laurie I guess?

See even setting aside the comic its messy as gently caress and either he grows as a character to want different things or they couldn't figure out how to write a static timeless god character consistently and should have gone a different direction with it.

# ¿ Dec 10, 2019 03:27

Wolfsheim: Dec 23, 2003; "Ah," Ratz had said, at last, "the artiste."

Mirage posted:

If I remember correctly, before Jon walked into the intrinsic field generator in 1985, he kind of sighs to himself, "Oh great, we're doing this thing." So he knows it's coming but is literally powerless to stop it.

Or like when the Comedian kills the pregnant girl in Vietnam. "You could have turned the gun into butterflies or the bullets into snowflakes! But you didn't, did you? You just stood there and watched." Again, it happened not because he didn't have the physical power to stop it, but because it was inevitable, like everything else in his life.

Also in the comic, he tells Laurie, "We're all puppets. I'm the only one who can see the strings."

So Jon gets hit by the tachyon cannon because he was always hit by it, will always be hit by it.

Wanna see Jon's break up conversations

"I didnt want to gently caress that teen girl Janey, my dick was always going to hit that. It couldn't have happened any other way."

Clearly hes learned to be more creative in getting out of a boring relationship in 2019 but the man has a long way to go

# ¿ Dec 13, 2019 21:16

Wolfsheim: Dec 23, 2003; "Ah," Ratz had said, at last, "the artiste."

But like the reason it feels off is because Manhattan never actually uses his implicit knowledge of the future prior to this show. He sees himself making mistakes like committing genocide in Vietnam or pretending to be a superhero or being tricked by Adrian's cancer ruse but never acts in a way to do things differently. He never manipulates events with it which he explicitly does in the show.

And you can't say he's somehow more mature than he was in the 80s that literally cant be true if he cant experience linear time. It really does feel like the showrunner just likes time loops and thought doing a clever one was more important than writing the character well.

# ¿ Dec 13, 2019 21:40

Wolfsheim: Dec 23, 2003; "Ah," Ratz had said, at last, "the artiste."

Manhattan in the comic: a man with the powers of a god who makes all the same bad mistakes and has the same messy relationships that anyone else would, only doomed to experience these moments forever because he sees it all happening at once

Manhattan in the show: basically using the D.E.N.N.I.S. system and going "uhhhhhh....it was fate" when called out on it

# ¿ Dec 13, 2019 21:49

Wolfsheim: Dec 23, 2003; "Ah," Ratz had said, at last, "the artiste."

Nail Rat posted:

I AM A BLUE GOD

It seems like a lazy coincidence that Jon happened to fall for Hooded Justice's secret granddaughter and set the show in motion but what we don't see is Manhattan duplicating himself and walking into every bar in Vietnam doing the whole "of course I see us together in ten years, I'm Dr. Manhattan baby!" bit. Angela's just one of the ones it worked on and then it happened to be true.

This will never be referenced outside of the ARG but the true heads will get it

# ¿ Dec 13, 2019 22:02

Wolfsheim: Dec 23, 2003; "Ah," Ratz had said, at last, "the artiste."

Weedle posted:

Mysterious entrance
Ambiguous introduction
Nice enough guy, seemingly
Hit that poo poo
Annoying reminder that I already know when we'll break up
Token attempt at emotional comfort
Time takes its toll on her body while I remain a luminous dreamboat
Abscond via teleportation
Never see her again

If every season of this show is just him ruining a different girl's life with his bullshit I will take back every bad thing I've said about it

Season two can be Dan's niece I guess

# ¿ Dec 13, 2019 22:14

Wolfsheim: Dec 23, 2003; "Ah," Ratz had said, at last, "the artiste."

Hahaha I just watched the finale and oh boy

Grandpa Palpatine posted:

Dude has a drat successful resume. One to be jealous of. Which hit films / TV series did you make by the way?

I love this argument because every movie or television show is created by millionaires so none of them could ever possibly be bad

It's the most bird brained poo poo

# ¿ Dec 16, 2019 05:36

Wolfsheim: Dec 23, 2003; "Ah," Ratz had said, at last, "the artiste."

Leaving aside how it doesn't really work with the comic at all (Manhattan's time travel bullshit doing a Terminator, Adrian being so dumb in the show he let his entire asian staff in on the plan, then gave them all the weekend off or something and only noticed he killed three dudes, just stellar stuff) that ending doesn't even really work within the show?

Manhattan emphasizes how absolutely hellish it is to experience his life all at the same time and then goes "oh hey you're the person I love most in the world you should experience my horrific torment"? There's no reason he'd want that for anyone outside of absolute mystery box 'to be continued??? Maybe!?!?' bullshit.

Also putting stuff in the show then never addressing it again outside of an ARG website is actively hostile to your audience

# ¿ Dec 16, 2019 05:44

Wolfsheim: Dec 23, 2003; "Ah," Ratz had said, at last, "the artiste."

Laurie deciding to arrest Veidt after doing nothing or having any kind of character growth was great, it's like they wrote the ending but forgot to write a reason for her change of heart

# ¿ Dec 16, 2019 05:53

Wolfsheim: Dec 23, 2003; "Ah," Ratz had said, at last, "the artiste."

Admittedly its possible her change of heart occurred in the show's wikipedia that 99% of the audience will never read

# ¿ Dec 16, 2019 05:57

Wolfsheim: Dec 23, 2003; "Ah," Ratz had said, at last, "the artiste."

I liked when the cops showed up at the end, I was like oh yeah! This show was about cops for awhile! It was pretty good. Oh well, bye cops, maybe next time!

LinYutang posted:

I just realized that the whole Mesmerizing subplot didn't have a real payoff. I was thinking that Will Reeves would step in and mind control Trieu to make him Dr. Manhattan, or something. But it was just the blinky flashlight that killed the sheriff?

I forgot about this too :laffo:

# ¿ Dec 16, 2019 06:02

Wolfsheim: Dec 23, 2003; "Ah," Ratz had said, at last, "the artiste."

The REAL Goobusters posted:

This explains a lot

Are we allowed to empty quote

# ¿ Dec 16, 2019 06:06

Wolfsheim: Dec 23, 2003; "Ah," Ratz had said, at last, "the artiste."

Zaphod42 posted:

...what show are you people watching??

The bad one (see title of thread)

# ¿ Dec 16, 2019 17:15

Wolfsheim: Dec 23, 2003; "Ah," Ratz had said, at last, "the artiste."

Thom and the Heads posted:

more! female! cops!

This is kind of at the heart of why the show not only doesn't work but really doesn't work in the context of our current 2019. It seemed problematic to show the cops as good guys versus the racist KKK as bad guys when IRL like at least a third of law enforcement are sympathetic to if not actual members of white supremacy groups, and in the show....outside of the police chief all the cops are generic good guys, and the white supremacists are kind of a joke.

Its not really a coincidence that the two best episodes of the show (HJ and LG) are about someone treating them as a legitimate threat and showing how someone could be turned to their cause.

# ¿ Dec 16, 2019 17:28

Wolfsheim: Dec 23, 2003; "Ah," Ratz had said, at last, "the artiste."

Also thinking about it Laurie randomly deciding to arrest Adrian at the end was dead-on; not because of character growth we didn't see happen, but because in the comic Laurie just passively goes along with whatever while complaining. Last time she was hanging around that base everyone wanted to keep the secret so she did, this time she was with a guy wanted to arrest Adrian so she did.

So congrats to Watchmen for getting one character from the comic right, even if it was only briefly

# ¿ Dec 16, 2019 17:32

Wolfsheim: Dec 23, 2003; "Ah," Ratz had said, at last, "the artiste."

The REAL Goobusters posted:

Remember when the white supremacist was listening to Future in the first episode and then got pulled over by the black cop in the same way a white cop would a black person irl

And then the black cop couldn’t unlock his gun in time because of liberal policies and he just got gunned down.

They totally dropped that and just gave everyone so many weapons.

It owned that the entire beginning has nothing to do with the ending and was literally just Lindelof's actual belief that too-liberal a government would be just as bad as the white supremacists running the government just in different ways

It also owns that at the end of this episode HJ gives a confusing speech about how wounds can't heal under a mask when its like... bro....what do you think bandages are

# ¿ Dec 16, 2019 18:13

Wolfsheim: Dec 23, 2003; "Ah," Ratz had said, at last, "the artiste."

zoux posted:

My take on if Trieu had succeeded is that the same thing would've happened to her that happened to Jon Osterman when he was transformed: she would instantly stop giving a poo poo about what happened to humanity and she'd gently caress off to Andromeda or somewhere. Same with Angela as well, I don't think your mortal morality matters much when you get your intrinsic field generated.

I agree, and one wonders why he would want anyone to have his powers at all

(He shouldn't and it didn't make sense but what a crazy ending, wow!)

# ¿ Dec 16, 2019 19:51

Wolfsheim: Dec 23, 2003; "Ah," Ratz had said, at last, "the artiste."

We know why Angela is a cop because the whole show emphasizes her life driving her towards that but the ending and her relationship with Manhattan has nothing to do with it. Its entirely incidental to the climax of the plot, which would have been similar if she had been a housewife instead.

We don't know why Angela is in love with Manhattan, it cuts from her being skeptical of him to her already being in love with him but resenting his powers. We only know it will happen because he told her it will. What should be the emotional crux of the finale happened offscreen.

Neither facet of her character gives any real indication that she would want his power, that he would want her to have it, or that she should have it.

They started with a strong lead and absolutley failed her on multiple fronts. I've never seen a show kneecap itself so hard so quickly.

# ¿ Dec 16, 2019 20:04

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 00:11

Wolfsheim: Dec 23, 2003; "Ah," Ratz had said, at last, "the artiste."

Bushido Brown posted:

You don't think she has any unique perspective given her lived experiences, including, e.g., the death of her parents, growing up in an orphanage, and her first-hand betrayal by her cop supervisor (not to mention the experiences of her grandfather, which mirror the last point)?

In relation to the last episode? Not really. Its just her kinda watching things happen and shrugging and eating an egg. That sequence of events plays out pretty much the same whether or not she's a super-cop or just a random chick Manhattan decided to bang.

quote:

It seems that people are so eager to say nothing in the last three episodes connects to the first six that they willfully blind themselves to the connections between them. Which, is funny, given that they're obvious, and the second most common critique here is that the show treats its audience like it is stupid.

It's more that the show undercuts these connections by making it so that both she and her grandfather were just kinda sitting around until Manhattan showed up and told them what to do. It takes away their agency and dilutes the themes by just making them background noise to sci fi time travel asian clone villain goof em ups.

# ¿ Dec 16, 2019 20:23

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > Who watches the Watchmen? thread

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