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Animal Friend
Sep 7, 2011

Just started a Legendary playthrough of CE.

The plasma pistol is so hilariously broken. I don't know if its because of frame rate, playing with a mouse, or the audio but you can fire it as fast as Jackal Majors could in the old game.

That is, if you mash the trigger its like full auto and the recharge time is nothing. The audio glitches out while its venting to sound like it's charging and you can keep on shooting.

I'm up to Truth and Reconciliation, and I shredded the gold elites with swords after the lift, and an overcharge will kill any of the invisible dudes in one hit- and if you time it right, by firing just before the overcharge maxes out, you can fire it almost straight away.

Try it, its amazing.


e: Just noticing something else that's become super apparent on Silent Cartographer. I don't remember enemy grunts being so drat grenade happy while friendly AI throws none. Anybody else notice this?

Animal Friend fucked around with this message at 07:28 on Mar 4, 2020

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Animal Friend
Sep 7, 2011

Lunethex posted:

Only two bugs I found playing Halo: CEA all the way through, one of which was mentioned - the plasma pistol charge sound effect plays randomly and during the 2nd mission, one of the dropships has no sound attached to it at the first set of marines.

Also drat these par times are super tight. I wonder if they expect you to do a lot of glitching and poo poo, so far I'm always within only like 2-3 minutes of the limit. Also also, the achievements are all super buggy which probably isn't surprising.

edit: also I neglected to be really positive about the game because I am. It's such a step up from Reach. Every single weapon sounds and feels great compared to the complete shitshow that was Reach's arsenal. There is something super special about having the AR and just mowing down legions of Grunts or gunning down an elite, and that's also because these weapons have impact they tend to ragdoll enemies.

And the Shotgun, holy poo poo. The shotgun is so blessed. It helps that every weapon is useful. Except the Needler, which, whatever. I bet it's different in every game, definitely sucks the root in :CE. I tried using it multiple times and the projectile speed is just shite.

Needler actually owns at taking down elites, and in wave battles super-combines will cause chain explosions with grenades on the ground. The slow speed and homing means you can strafe and angle fire and get around enemy cover at medium range.

Animal Friend
Sep 7, 2011

Lunethex posted:

Yeah there's comments like this all over the forums.

Along with a deluge of people all questioning each other's sanity when it comes to remembering the nuances of this game.

i.e people say the AR was nerfed for PC (even before MCC) from the xbox original.

I do, however, believe that the game's uncapped framerate is causing other issues like was stated here and there. i.e the reticule spreads faster than it should, AI gets more aggressive (think OG Xcom), messes with stuff in general.

I think I mentioned it before but the plasma pistol cooldown and fire-rate is glitched, maybe due to frames?

But yes, the AR accuracy was made worse by Gearbox for some reason. It was a big thing me and my friends noticed way back in the day moving to PC from Xbox. It's now worthless in Campaign above normal difficulty, and pointless in MP unless you get jumped while spawning and don't have time to swap to pistol.

Also, people talking about hitboxes- think of Anniversary graphics as sitting on top of the existing ones. There are ledges, tree leaves (these are static and will explode rockets and kill you), rocks ect that don't conform 1:1 with the original graphics, which the game still runs on practically. This goes for the enemy designs too- some of the new elite helmets extend beyond the "actual" head hitbox. It's not always apparent but you do start to notice it, especially from the front/above angle.

Animal Friend
Sep 7, 2011

Zaphod42 posted:

Try playing with the classic soundtrack, its better than the remaster anyways

(you can set classic soundtrack even if you use remastered visuals)

the remaster of the main theme fucks it up and drops a note on the main rhythm and it completely ruins it IMO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_DfCFHOD9E or bust

Animal Friend
Sep 7, 2011

New update appears to have made the plasma pistol normal again. Found out because I went for the "Leave it Where it Lay" achievement....

Animal Friend
Sep 7, 2011

Halo 2 legendary you are weaker than everything in the sandbox bar a flood infection form. It's more than just the jackals one shotting you that makes it a slog. Also I'm pretty sure enemy elite shields recharge faster than yours (CE was 1/3 your speed and in 3 the brute shields don't recharge at all.) Also your health is tied to vehicle health so even in a tank you can get ganked easily.

Animal Friend
Sep 7, 2011

Grimthwacker posted:

Nice to see that Halo 2 Anniversary's co-op actually works, unlike Combat Evolved Anniversary's. I wanted to ask again if anybody was having problem connecting in CEA's co-op, because I get disconnected during the loading screens and dumped out of the party.

Also, the sound effects/music volume in H2's remastered mode are MUCH louder than in classic mode. I've been sticking with classic because you lose the visual "pop" of an Elite's shield when it gets taken down in remastered.

CE Anniversary was a laggy mess on the 360 too. I get the occasional drop-out sometimes and gameplay ranges from hilariously unplayable to okay.

Also yeah the shield effects in 2 remastered are awful. Given how much of an emphasis is placed on popping elite shields, it seems like a dumb oversight.

Animal Friend
Sep 7, 2011

You have to select it then click on the small "Accept" tile that appears bottom left and is the same colour as the background UI and not highlighted.

I was fooled by this too.

Animal Friend
Sep 7, 2011

SavageGentleman posted:

I'm now two thirds through the Halo 2 campaign and had a good time. A nice walk down memory lane. My dumb comments:

-the decision to focus on internal Convenant stuff and make the Arbiter a protagonist was (despite the non-subtle writing) a good one.
-I like the first Arbiter level on a visual level - a lot. The Bespin-like colours, the blinky lights and breathers on the heretics, good stuff.
-Sth I already noticed in the Halo 1 remastered Campaign: At last on normal, npc buddies (elites and marines) die a lot faster than in the original xbox versions? I want to play pretty weapon dolls with them and give everyone rocket launchers and sniper rifles damnid!
-Gravemind looks proper disgusting in this updated version - like really really disguting, good job designers! In the original Halo 2 sequences he looked like one of these flesh-eating plants from Super Mario or Little shop of Horrors.
-Oh holy poo poo the Flood combat forms are no joke if you don't have a sword or upgraded sentinel beam - and the Shotgun has become way worse at dealing with them than in Halo 1.
-Especially the Arbiter level in the Quarantine zone building and exterior reminds me of this fact. Especially human combat forms are very fast, very small and a lot of them have Shotguns that oneshot you - if they decide to shoot. Flood Gauss Warthogs and Scorpion tanks are really painful, especially if you're in a Ghost.
-Lol the reign of God Emperor Pistol I from Halo CE was ended by the nerv of all nervs. Yes, it was overpowered back then, but turning it into a horrible pea-shooter that did almost no damage at all and had poo poo-all for ammo was a bit much. I await the return of a good pistol in...Halo 3?
- I'm not actively seraching for them but the terminals I've found are a welcome addition to the narrative world! They are adding lots of cool facts to the history of the Human-Convenant war and the Convenant by incorporating stuff from the graphic novels etc.
-Only massive slowdown was in the Lake Temple level, but fortunately that stopped after 20 secs.

Anyone else going through the Halo 2 campaign atm? What's your thoughts yall?

I finished it solo on legendary the week it came out- it was the only game I never did back in the day, for obvious reasons. I agree the heretics all have a cool visual style. With regards to the pistol- its now the BR. 12 3 round bursts instead of 12 single shots but it takes up the same place in the sandbox. Dual wielding (why did they take it out after 3 its such a power trip) changed some of the other weapons. In close quarters the pistol still owns if you mini-noob combo it- its a headshot weapon. Plasma pistol to strip the shield and then pistol shot to the head. Works well in sections of Cairo Station and against the elite honor guards on Delta Halo/Regret.

With regard to allies dying- I think the higher frame rate has bugged the firing of some weapons. Plasma weapons would stun NPCs in Halo 1, and everything but a needler will force friendlies to flinch in Halo 2. With the higher fire/frame rates, they get stuck in a stun/flinch animation where they can't move or fire back a lot more often. With that said I did manage to get these guys all the way through Gravemind somehow.



I always thought it was weird that the mission objective in that level was "Save the Marines" and then the just disappear in the cutscene at the end and the plot moves forward.

In regards to having done legendary, I actually enjoyed it for the most part. The Halo 2 sandbox is a lot more lethal and faster paced than the other Halo games. You might be the weakest thing in the sandbox but the weapons are all powerful enough in your own hands. Plus you have access to sniper rifles, rockets and almost every weapon by the second level. The moment to moment skirmishes were actually manageable and tense so long as you paid attention to your surroundings. The plasma projectiles being so much faster means that elites can actually be easier to take down than in Halo 1- noob combo/dual plasma rifle/ swap to BR and done. The Carbines ridiculous fire speed means that so long as you don't get rushed by a group, brutes are easier to score headshots on. The only thing that felt "cheap" was the jackal snipers and the shielded elite flood (both one hit kills from out of nowhere). This did make some sections DRAG, but everything around that made up for it. Special mention to the Arbiter getting a sword only start on Uprising, where it takes 2 lunges to kill a brute, and their melee retaliation, which triggers as soon as you make your first lunge, is a one hit kill...

The main thing I miss from Halo CE, and why CE still has my favourite moments in the franchise is the big battles in open arenas. Halo had copy-pasted level design but less sections where you're simply defending a small enclosed space for multiple waves. Nothing in Halo 2 comes close to that last battle in Two Betrayals where there's multiple Covenant tanks and turrets and hunters and a flood army, and you have to get through them. Halo 2 has better variety mission to mission but it never really reaches that level of scale. Also that ending is still so, so awful.

Animal Friend
Sep 7, 2011

SavageGentleman posted:

Jackal valley death time!

More small observations to the Halo 2 campaign:
-I really want to love the Brute plasma rifle but by the time you get it, you're mostly fighting Brutes (or flood combat forms) who don't care about it at all. But it really shreds Elites!
- still salty about the piddly Shotgun - although it was surprisingly effective against Tartarus. Note: Don't forget to grab a beam sniper rifle in the first moments of the last level, it will really shorten the boss fight.
- Bashing in the Prophet of Regret's face with MC's armoured fists is funfunfun!
- as I forgot most of the plot of Halo 3, I cannot remember if the super self-destructive decisions of the Prophet of Truth are making any sense in hindsight. Destroying the Convenant as a political force and massacring at least a third of its fleet & army in a civil war - while the Flood is allowed to take over High Charity - doesn't look like a smart move.
- the decision to make Gravemind only speak in rhymes was ... questionable.

Huh I used dual brute plasmas on Tartarus and it took him down pretty quick. Couldn't imagine getting close enough to use the shotgun safely...

Also on Legendary you have to board and punch Regret like 4 or 5 times. The strongest cyborg humanity has ever created in an advanced powered armour system hits a little weaker than expected, given Regret is just tiny old man.

All melees kinda suck in Halo 2 though.

Solaris 2.0 posted:

I started playing the Halo 2 A campaign, only on the 2nd level but some thoughts

1) It's much harder than I remember, even with keyboard and mouse. I'm playing on Heroic and your shields drain super fast and the covenant are laser accurate. It feels like there are fewer checkpoints as well compared to Halo 1/Reach.

2) I keep trying to play dual wield but due to the fact that your shields last 3 shots max, and death quickly follows, I wasn't having much luck. Popping off headshots with the BR and sticking elites with plasma / using regular grenades for grunts and jackals is a much more effective strategy

3) Hunters are deadly as gently caress holy poo poo

4) gently caress you sniper jackals

5) The game feels..slower? More confined? Yes I am only two levels in but already it is missing some of the wide open spaces from Halo 1 and even Reach. It's clear they pushed the Xbox to its limit and had to reduce the playable space as a result.

Overall I am having fun, but only once I just accepted the fact that the BR rules all. Bungie really pushed dual-wielding in their marketing but honestly it doesn't do much good when you need to be in close combat to be effective, and the enemies shred your shields.

Remember that the enemies focus fire where they last saw you, so you have to go between sides of the cover your behind. Pop out, EMP/headshot or stick, duck back, recharge, go the other side.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikvheFiDsYY

This talk is super interesting about enemy behaviour and gameplay in the Halo series. He talks at one point about how in order to get the game running they had to pull out most of the 'cover' geometry in the game, so yes, parts will feel slower because you have to be more conservative with your movement.

Still I feel once you get comfortable with MKB Halo 2, it is still faster and more lethal feeling in moment to moment gameplay. The plasma pistol and plasma grenades are your BFFs when it comes to elites. Also Halo 2 has the same amount of checkpoints but waaaaaay more checkpoint bugs where they don't trigger. Very fun combined with all the cheap instadeaths.

Dual wielding is less viable on higher difficulties outside of a very few scenarios. It was hilarious back on the original multiplayer though. They had to patch the SMG/Plasma Rifle combo to be less effective.

Also with hunters, always keep a beam rifle handy (there in plentiful supply throughout the game). Shoot for the neck if you can't get to the back. It takes them down pretty quick.

Animal Friend
Sep 7, 2011

Arrath posted:

This was always the best. I once finished Two Betrayals in H1 with a couple sentinels still alive. Who doggedly battered down my shields in the outro cutscene, leading to Cortana teleporting my corpse away.

I remember dicking around with cutscenes so much in Halo CE on the xbox. Best was stealing a banshee in the bridge section of Assault on the Control Room, keeping the elite-controlled banshee alive, guiding it through the doors, then entering the cinematic. IIRC he would circle the massive control room in the background, taunting you. And sometimes splatter you.

best example i could find quickly on yt was this, but its a goodie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUampXvdwOY

Animal Friend
Sep 7, 2011

Solaris 2.0 posted:

Also the remastered Halo 2 soundtrack doesn’t have the music from Incubus or Breaking Benjamin for that true mid-2000s experience!

Luckily, the original graphics does !

The Incucbus track that plays during the heretic banshee section actually kinda owns so much- its different but it uses the same scales as the main soundtrack. The anniversary track is generic modern progressive metal track #9 and feels so out of place. Its djent muzak.

Animal Friend
Sep 7, 2011

Legendary Ptarmigan posted:

I think it had to do with issues licensing the old tracks for a new project.

Nope, still there. Just have to be in the original graphics for it to play. You can tap a button and have Incubus/Breaking Benjamin segue in if you want (and of course you want to).

I think its just because 343 was needlessly doing a new soundtrack when the original still sounds phenomenal, so they also just rerecorded new stuff in addition to featuring licensed content.

Just because.

Animal Friend
Sep 7, 2011

Arcsquad12 posted:

General question for people concerning Chief and Cortana. How do you view their relationship? Do you see it more as a romantic thing, or as a brother/sister dynamic, or as two best friends? And of those, what do you think works best for the characters?

I think its kinda eh a lot of the time. Its very shallow in the games until Halo 3, and then it has some issues. Your fun sassy partner who provides the fun one liners in your head? She's now an abuse victim (and it gets worse if you hit a certain audio trigger on the "Cortana" mission.) But then you save her and its back to normal.

https://haruspis.blog/2017/03/26/why-halo-3-didnt-finish-the-fight/

About a quarter of the way through this they talk about Cortana's part in the game and I agree with what they say.

It will also forever be cringe inducing to me that the Halo 4 lead said the Cortana rampancy stuff was directly influenced by his relationship with his mother through her dementia... and then the art department sexed up her appearance more than ever before. That said, I feel Halo 4 retroactively changed how everybody feels about Chief and Cortana because it played it a lot more seriously. No more teleporting Chief upside down, no more "You look nice" or "sorry, were you trying to shoot something?" It works for that story and its written quite well, but it isn't really reflected in the original trilogy- her quote about not being sure which one of them is the machine rings true and it really reflects the best part of Halo 4s narrative, but its not something I could imagine her saying in 1-3.

Animal Friend
Sep 7, 2011

chaosapiant posted:

So there is an shotgun in H1? I have yet to find one.

There is but its not very good, you're better off using the Needler in all situations.

Animal Friend
Sep 7, 2011

Halo 3 flood missions with a sword and a brute shot (and extremely lucky grenades) are comically easy.

I finished my solo Legendary play through mid week and I was DREADING "Cortana" but it wasn't too bad. Brute shot has splash damage against flood and destroys the bodies so they can't be reanimated. It will knock the ranged forms off of walls, and melee kills everything in one hit- tanks in 2, as already mentioned above.

Sword will kill anything but some elite flood in one hit.

Of course, the entire thing was basically a cakewalk after Halo 2. "The Covenant" with proper weapon management was a breeze. Pro tip- keep one shot left on the spartan laser then palm it off to an ODST at the start, keep that dude alive and swap back for an extra crispy brute chieftain in the tower.

Animal Friend
Sep 7, 2011

Arcsquad12 posted:

It's like the Halo 1 plasma rifle where it is very solid against the Flood. Halo 2 enemies feel like they have insane damage resistance against specific weapon types that damages weapon viability against certain enemy types. Plasma doesn't do poo poo against h2 brutes or flood.

Halo 2 weapons were more specialised in the sandbox and I think a lot of tweaks tried to emphasise dual wielding.

Plasma rifle was super strong against shields and could be wielded with SMG. It sucks against flesh and so flood tank it. Dual plasmas would still murder anything else though, even on Legendary (except your own TTK negated this).

General thoughts below:


Having done Halo 2 and 3 solo Legendary fairly close together I have to admit 2 still has the best sandbox and most rewarding moment to moment gameplay.

2 is rough but most of the rage comes from the bullshit snipers and your tiny health being tied to vehicles (it loving sucks being in a Scorpion and needing 2-3 shots to take out a banshee or ghost, which spawn in pairs or triplets, and can end you in 3-5 seconds of fire). Most of the encounters force you to think quick and react quick and even though you're weaker than everything, its mostly "fair" in that all the enemies are bound by the same rules as you. An Elite Ultra might be able to tank a plasma grenade stick, but can still by one shot by a melee from behind and a plasma pistol EMP will still totally down shields. Brutes are damage sponges but 2 BR headshots or a brief carbine spam on the head will down them super quick. Not to mention needle super combines. If you plan it right, they're actually easier than elites.

Outside of the artificial snipers, vehicles (and shotgun flood, I guess) its a situation where although you are exceptionally vulnerable, you are still super lethal.

Halo CE and 2 pushed that the elites are your equal. In the early game of 2 (on PC I only did one play though and it was Legendary- I hadn't played it since the 360 days but it was also the one game I ever went to a midnight launch for so I was very familiar with it) bumping into red elites was kinda scary. In the later levels you learn to adapt but then there's even more Zealots and Ultras...and then damage sponge brutes with 1-2 hit kill brute shots and 1 hit kill melees but are easily dispatched at range... It's challenging because each time you bump into one you have to think quickly to survive, but the weapons in your hands allow you to clinch it. By 3, Brutes are kinda chumps. They don't kill you in one melee hit, their shields don't recharge, they don't dual wield weapons or draw swords on you.

The only ones that seem equal are the chieftains, and to be honest all the chieftain fights in 3 were highlights for me. Although I am kind of torn. They both play by the rules and don't. You can assassinate them, but you can't stick them. They have weapons you can't access without killing them, but that you can save from earlier and use against them. They have access to "equipment" abilities but you can kill them quickly and steal them... The thing with these caveats is that they add to the sandbox on repeat play throughs when you know who has what, but otherwise its just kind of more blatant artificial difficulty addition.

In Halo 2 you can have an Elite ultra rush you, if you evade and do enough damage, he'll draw a sword and hunt you down. You can noob combo, grenade, rocket, evade and assassinate them. Its tough but doable and it plays into the established rules of the game as the pertain to you- you're equals. Seeing a Brute Chieftain in 3, panicking and throwing a grenade only for it to bounce off of them and for them to become invincible and corner you with their hammer kinda really sucks.

That said, the simple buffs to overall health, melee damage and the debuffs to flood infantry durability make Halo 3 Legendary feel like a complete and satisfying game overall, and not some kind of sadistic ritual.

Halo 1 Legendary is challenging but I think I've played it too much to objectively state an opinion. It's my most played FPS outside of maybe FEAR and so I only ever play on Legendary due to it otherwise being uninteresting.
Halo 2 was the most frustrating but rewarding.
Halo 3 was the most complete experience.
Halo: Reach was Reach with more baddies. Like at that point the sandbox was reduced(refined?) to noob-combo/headshot weapons are the only viable method of play and it was just kind of a slog. It also made vehicle sections about as much of a chore as Halo 2.

Also while I am defending(?) Halo 2, at least the cutscenes show Chief with the BR, an actual useful weapon. I don't think I used the rear end Rifle once in 3.

Animal Friend
Sep 7, 2011

Oxyclean posted:

From my wiki skimming it sounded liked none of the covenant member species actually managed to develop to spaceflight before the prophet race encountered them and brought them into the fold?

Also, just finishing my Halo 3 play through I'm got a little mixed up on something from an earlier wikidive. Guilty Spark refers to humans as "Forerunner Children" or something like that, it felt like they almost meant it in the literal sense. But humans are apparently explicitly not forerunner? Did forerunners just pick them as successors?

Also, if forerunners were able to preserve humans and the prophet species, how come they didn't preserve any of their kind?

I don't know about the new canon (343 onward stuff) but I think in terms of the Halo trilogy the Forerunners were obsessed with the idea of 'the mantle'. The dominant species in the galaxy had a duty to hold everything up and take responsibility for everything. They apparently inherited this mantle and its ideals from another civilization that came before them. When they started to lose their war with the flood, they realised they had lost the ability to maintain the mantle and thus the underpinnings of their society, so it wasn't really worth saving. I think this is why Mendicant Bias (the AI whose story is told in the terminals), who was created to stop the gravemind/flood instead sided with them- he saw the forerunners were incapable of upholding order in the galaxy and by their own principals, programmed into him, should be destroyed.

That said the idea was to preserve what life they could. The prophet race was primitive- they wanted to protect species that had primitive innocence from a war they had no part in. Hence in the terminals in H3 they talk about cataloging species for survival and portals and shield worlds and stuff. The mass extinction caused by the Halo array had a few caveats.

Here's where things get murky. Originally it was the Forerunners as a failed civilisation would wipe themselves out to stop the flood. They would retreat to the Ark then make it to earth (hence the portal) to start over. There are hints about a human-forerunner connection in CE and 2 in background dialogue but in short form: AIs call humans things like "reclaimer", gravemind calls you "child of my enemy" and then it culminates with Spark directly saying "you are forerunner" to you at the end of 3. This also explains why humans are the only ones who can operate the technology. Still, given some of the text in the terminals talks about the Forerunners passing the mantle and some ambiguity about just where and who everybody was at the time, there was always still a little wriggle room in the narrative for argument about whether humans are direct ancestors of Forerunners or just the chosen inheritors. At the end of 3 most people, I think, took it that yes, forerunner = human. But then the franchise changed hands.

343 of course came up with a totally different backstory involving ancient humans being more powerful than forerunners and genetic back dating of the Master Chief and blah blah blah blah. Also Forerunner soldiers are digitised human souls in robots or something because whatever.

edit: http://halostory.bungie.org/resources.html

This page was big on connecting the dots and LOTS OF SPECULATION back in the day. Its a fun little read for nostalgia and seeing people predict stuff for Halo 3 and beyond.

Animal Friend fucked around with this message at 05:42 on Jul 22, 2020

Animal Friend
Sep 7, 2011


I'm the ace of spades.

e: oh of course that's actually the name of the ship, i just thought it looked so dumb and glaring in the picture up there.

Animal Friend fucked around with this message at 06:35 on Jul 22, 2020

Animal Friend
Sep 7, 2011

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fmdb-KmlzD8

The announcement/engine reveal trailer from 2 years back looks better.

The background geometry being all squares in the new trailer looks really goofy. The dropships look like something made in Simple Planes. It looks like a cartoon? Also there was super obvious pop-in when they went up the elevator.

Everything looks so much worse than 5/2 Anniversary.

Animal Friend
Sep 7, 2011

I have a bad feeling the overworld will be all grunts/jackals and the elites/brutes are just going to be at outposts or objectives.

Animal Friend
Sep 7, 2011

Acebuckeye13 posted:

First time posting in this thread, but I grew up playing the poo poo out of Bungie's Halo games and from viewing the gameplay trailer of Infinity, it was really disappointing to realize that 343 still hasn't figured out what made the old titles so good (Though I'll grant that I haven't played Halo 5, not that I have much inclination to).

To jump on a high horse for a bit, talking about the single-player campaign specifically:

Twenty odd years ago, when the first Halo was being designed, it started out not as an FPS, but an RTS, with the gimmick that the player could jump into one of their units and fight from a third-person perspective. This eventually evolved into first person, and then the entire game was redesigned as an FPS because it turned out that was more fun and interesting—but the idea of the player being merely one unit on a much larger battlefield was reflected in the gameplay and level design of every one of Bungie's subsequent entries, from the beach assault of Silent Cartographer to the titanic battle against the duel scarabs of The Covenant. There were missions where you fought entirely by yourself, but very rarely were they as enjoyable or memorable as the missions you fought alongside allies, and it was these kinds of encounters that truly made the game feel unique and special.

Now, I'm going off old memories by this point, but in Halo 4 that... didn't happen. The game starts with the Chief on his own, and keeps him on his own for the vast majority of the game, with the sole exception of 1-2 levels in the middle of the game when you meet up with the Infinity. And it's telling that in the second level of the game, when you find the Warthog, it is the first time in the franchise since The Maw that the player is given a 'Hog without at least 1 partner. The story that 343 wants to tell is clearly centered around the Chief as an entity unto himself, as opposed to feeling like a small but highly influential part in a much larger conflict—and it's to both the story and the gameplay's detriment.

I had originally had some minor hopes for Infinite, but the gameplay trailer dashed them pretty quickly since... well, it tells us all we need to know about how 343 is approaching the story and gameplay: The Chief is isolated from allies and fighting by himself on a huge map, and actively tells the only other friendly NPC not to get involved. It's a huge shame and big indication that 343 just doesn't get it, and the game will likely be mediocre regardless of how many brutes or barely indistinguishable guns they put in because they refuse to built the levels and story around what the gameplay is most suited to and what the franchise has done best.

urgh. well, at least now I can always replay Halo 3.

I agree. The friendly AI didn't just add to the combat but feel as well. All the combat banter and back and forth added so much charm and personality. Maybe that doesn't fit with the more serious tone 343 is going for?

Hard to get that classic Halo feeling without an overly enthusiastic Australian egging everybody on all the time.

As a side note they actually had some named celebrities, David Cross, Laura Prepon, Michelle Rodriguez do Marine voices in Halo 2, not to mention the Firefly guys in 3. I also liked how although Johnson was the only named one in the script, the friendly voices from CE are there all the way through the trilogy. Bonus points for the Aussie marine not only surviving Halo 1-3 but also being on Earth in the ODST game while also being an ODST himself on Delta Halo at the same time.

Animal Friend
Sep 7, 2011

Halo 4 ended with basically a Starfox stage.

Animal Friend
Sep 7, 2011

It was a major disconnect when it first showed up. In gameplay, grunts would always panic when you killed their commander (Elites/Brutes) and in 3 they would sometimes switch to suicide mode.

It works in a gameplay sense that killing the most dangerous enemy results in an extra challenge as the suicide grunts can easily take you or your allies down if you aren't careful.

But then in lore the grunts are forcibly bred and sent to the front lines. Basically child/slave soldiers so this becomes kinda gross. And then yeah, Reach just throws (side note: in my opinion, the worst combat section in the game-even having completed it solo legendary multiple times) suicide squads randomly to make the invasion seem more barbaric.

There's a huge tonal dissonance between the lore and the games in the Bungie era. Its a big part of why the 343 games, which lean hard into the lore, feel tonally strange compared to the games they are obstinately sequels to.

Animal Friend
Sep 7, 2011

RBA Starblade posted:

My favorite part of Reach will always be the Bullfrogs

Rip Bullfrogs

I wanted to empty quote this lol.

In my first legendary play through (I did all my MCC PC playthroughs on Legendary first time because I have brain problems) Reach had the dumbest friendly AI.

Jorge is always useless but I don't remember him killing anything even as a gunner on the jeep in winter contingency.

Jun fell into the canyon before the jammer tower on Nightfall and thus contributed nothing.

Kat spent the better part of Tip of the Spear doing sweet gently caress all or falling to her death.

The Bullfrogs were so funny. "A group of ODST specialists". I think one of them made it over those platforms only to be killed pretty much instantly. I've seen one get splattered by banshee, multiple ones gently caress up jetpack pathing and just fall and the one time I gave one a rocket launcher he killed me.

The last level gives you just Emile as a partner and the shotgun is SO USELESS.


That being said the cutscenes and voice acting sells Reach. I care even if the gameplay is disconnected. Except maybe about Carter, who is super generic soldier guy boring even in death.

Animal Friend
Sep 7, 2011

Abroham Lincoln posted:

I can't defend Cortana, but it's at least just one level surrounded by good ones compared to like 10 loving gondola rides or "stand here and wait for enemies to show up" moments strung through 2's campaign.

Forerunners were a galaxy-spanning civilisation with god-like understanding of time and space and were able to construct things out of light and defy gravity.

Still dependent on elevators that move v e r y s l o w

Animal Friend
Sep 7, 2011

Johnson was popular before Halo's release. IIRC they liked Scully's delivery so much they had him record more dialogue for events and stuff. This is also why they made him a thing after the first game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfhkPcCGbLE

It seems it started with ripping off Apone from Aliens into writing him into everything because Dave Scully is just too good.

side note: I've been doing a co-op (had a few disconnects and some unplayable lag here and there but nothing like the repeat offences mentioned in this thread) run of CE with a friend who hasn't played it since the original Xbox days. When Johnson showed up on Halo he was like "oh hey its Johnson" and I just shot him in the head. I made a point of doing it whenever he shows up because we're playing on Legendary so he's going to be in the ending cinematic and die there too. He even spawned on the Guilty Spark level at the end lol.

I think he can spawn
Halo (scripted for dialogue)
Truth and Reconciliation from drop ships
Assault on the Control Room (scripted)
343 Guilty Spark (at the end)
and then end cinemanic.

Otherwise it spawns the other Sergeant, Stacker, who in my opinion is just as good.

Animal Friend
Sep 7, 2011

The way they look in Halo 2 Anniversary is the best imo. The Halo 2 art design had everything leaner in look. Even the Mark VI armour looks sleeker and it fits with the faster pace of the game. I still like the 3 era ODST helmet, but that suit of armour looks like it weighs a ton (certainly too heavy for jetpacks anyway... RIP Bullfrogs). I think they also retconned the heavily armoured marines in Halo CE to being ODST as well? Not sure.

Its weird to me that in Halo 2 you see ODSTs in the airlocks and stuff, like obviously that suit is pressurized which makes sense considering they're also (temporarily) astronauts. Then in ODST the game you have open-finger gloves and helmets that keep falling off.

Animal Friend fucked around with this message at 13:28 on Oct 3, 2020

Animal Friend
Sep 7, 2011

The main thing for Legendary is planning.

Not sure how specific this is for Reach but generally weapons will despawn but often if you've personally handled them they will stay on the ground. Be sure to "juggle" through plasma pistols on the ground so you can grab another one later in an engagement if you need. Also swap out plasma for a human pistol where possible if you're versing grunts/jackals. Save your DMR/Sniper/Power weapons for Elites. You should have a passable memory of what big bads show up and when from your previous play throughs- save your power weapons for that.

Also grenades got a serious area debuff in Reach and on Legendary elites will almost always dodge frag grenades. Only use frags on groups of grunts and jackals. For elites use plasmas- and you can get easy-ish sticks by abusing the AI. Pop out of cover on one side, wait for them to start doing suppressing fire, pop out the other side and throw the sticky. This is part of why people like using hologram (I usually just stuck with sprint).

With Elites, shoot the weakest ones first. Rangers (the big blue faceplates) can be taken out with a few DMR shots- don't need to waste plasma on them. Same with the regular blue elites. If you can take them down first for less ammo, thats less rounds coming your way while you take your time and plasma combo/grenade the majors and zealots ect. The weaker elites are also easier to bum rush- if you can get a couple hits on them with any gun you can generally melee, pull back then melee again and take them down fairly quickly if you time it right.

Vehicle sections are easy if you can get a wraith- just use a DMR/Needle rifle/sniper and take out the turret, then plasma pistol EMP, board and punch out the pilot. It can take some trial and error but it generally makes it less of a slog. With a jetpack you can steal a Banshee using the EMP grenade launcher at the end of The Package for a smooth ride.

Brutes get hosed up by needle rifles in Reach. They're not a threat at all unless they're cheiftans.

Also YMMV but often I'll give power weapons low on ammo to friendly AI. In Halo 2/3 this works much better since beam rifles are everywhere and the AI seems more competant. Reach friendly AI loves to rocket me in the back or just fall down ravines. In Reach I had 3 marines alive into the final fight on Long Night of Solace since I gave them all concussion rifles.

Animal Friend
Sep 7, 2011

jokes posted:

The plasma repeater from Reach should be ret-conned to every game. Something about it just feels right, man.


Them's fightin words

Animal Friend
Sep 7, 2011

Playing some social games over the last couple of days and yeah this is the xbox live I remember.

People spamming voice chat, people whinging, the n word... I joined a game of slayer, had my whole team but me quit and in the 4 v 1 (later a 3 v 1) that ensued I was trash talked for the entire game. "lul 6 to 25 noob u suck" No chill.

A few games later though and this shot was fired. In absolute awe:

Animal Friend
Sep 7, 2011

Arcsquad12 posted:

Did they rebalance some of the weapons in ODST over base game Halo 3? The Assault Rifle feels a tad weaker and the carbine is much, much more accurate now that it has the center dot popup for headshots.

Correct on the AR- it got a 50% damage debuff for some reason. Probably to make the SMG seem better? The carbine always had the dot reticle for headshot though. Not sure about that one.

Animal Friend
Sep 7, 2011

press [q] to kill elite

Animal Friend
Sep 7, 2011

The whole design behind the Elites was that these guys are your equals. They have the same skill set as you (guns/grenades/melee), are aggressive and have recharging energy shields. Even if they're "boss" encounters (like Zealots in CE, ultra's in 2) they're still bound by the same rules as you.

It's why Bungie and 343 have struggled to replace or rebalance them.

Promethean Knights are put in place of elites for a large portion of 4 and they don't follow the "rules" of the game world and they're outright stronger than you. That's why they're bullshit.

Their shields are overly strong (take multiple grenades on legendary) and recharge to quickly, they can teleport to safety or to instakill you.
They're each a slog to take down in every engagement. They feel more like event enemies like the chieftains from 3 but they're used normal major enemy types instead.

People have pointed out the lack of ammunition and that's true. But I feel a big problem with the Knights is that after taking down a strong enemy in games like this, it's generally rewarded by the player getting to take what made that enemy such a threat from them and use it against them. Elite ultra's energy swords, brute Chieftan gravity hammers, to a lesser extent the other power weapons the mini boss enemy's would carry. Knight's instakill with blade you can't steal and the majority of them drop weapons that are no more effective against them than what you used to down them.

It's a criminally unsatisfying gameplay loop.

Animal Friend
Sep 7, 2011

Mazerunner posted:

the big thing about needlers in 4's campaign is that they can do a super combine on you

they could also do that in CE, but generally are less aggressive with it than 4. I also think they had to take out your shields first in CE before it would explode but I might be wrong. I'm actually going through CE now on legendary and I've been exploded a few times, but only in situations where I was dead anyway.

Grunts in CE, even on legendary, don't fire needlers fast enough to super combine. Even in groups they rarely manage it. This is also why marine allies with needlers are worthless (RIP fire team Zulu guy who charged a wraith with one).

Elites with them will gently caress you up but there's less then 5 needler Elites in the whole game though iirc.

Animal Friend
Sep 7, 2011

General Battuta posted:

Halo 2 is a highly choreographed and scripted alien political thriller with a talking Flood monstermind and Chief kind of along for the ride (he doesn't really do anything except kill Regret).

Thinking about this, I think this is a big reason why the Halo 2 campaign left me so cold back in the day. Chief gets taken away from earth, walks down some corridors (often with only 2 marines at a time-the scale felt wound back form CE), kills an elderly, cowardly prophet (not exactly a badass move) and then just... makes his way back to Earth? I never really realised that before. It really compounds the marketing hype of saving earth (you don't do that) and the ending (finishing this fight !!!!!?????)

The real protagonist and king slayer is the Arbiter, and all but like 2 of his levels suuucked. By the time 3 came around I had warmed to him- as the Gravemind says he's "flesh and faith"- the idea that Chief is a supernaturally lucky, cybernetic augmented genetic paragon in a super suit who is equaled in ability by this big guy in ancient lovely armour is insane. Plus he makes buddy's with Johnson. I really wanted to see where he'd go... And then in 3 he's just a stupid AI lackey who does nothing and only gets a couple of good lines.

Animal Friend
Sep 7, 2011

Anita Dickinme posted:

So what I’m getting from this conversation is John is autistic?

Along with everyone in this thread.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

This was really insensitive.

The chief is actually an incel who's so emotionally stunted he can't process his crippling Oedipus complex leading to him being the ultimate rifleman.

Animal Friend
Sep 7, 2011

T&R took a MAC round (the big cannons you see fire from the human ships in Reach) from the Pillar of Autumn and set down in atmosphere for repairs (hence the lifts on the surface). Of course, these were delayed by a certain cyborg boarding it and killing a whole bunch of its crew.

It was still being repaired when the Flood got out. Seeing it as a way off the ring, they boarded and transferred their main "brain" thingy to it to escape.

Animal Friend
Sep 7, 2011

lol that Halo 4 killed the franchise and another Halo thread again.

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Animal Friend
Sep 7, 2011

Spartan Ops gameplay is some serious cheap poo poo of repeating basic levels and dropped-in AI. Like a baby's first level editor map over and over.

But then you go on youtube and see that they paid for a whole bunch of cutscenes and voice acting and its just... What was their resource budget?

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