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An insane mind posted:Did I say that it was the EU that is this socialist utopia I'm envisioning? I'm pretty sure I said that I believe that it's the future for humanity. Any socialist world can only be built on international federation and cooperation, but you don't construct that kind of system by building on the foundations of a bourgeois institution. You can't just reform your way out of the EU being an undemocratic super government that exists only to regulate a common market while letting all of its member states retain sovereignty. To change that in some kind of socialist direction would take no less than multiple socialist revolutions across Europe, and at that point the EU is rendered completely redundant. The institutions constructed by the EU won't even tolerate the development of socialism in a single state, because as is the case with Greece they will bring down the full force of the market to extract their price. Now I'm not saying here that it'd be easy for an independent state to construct socialism outside of the EU, but the UK would have a better chance of realizing socialism through Juche than staying in the common market. You just can't get the issue confused. A framework for cooperation between international bourgeois is not a framework for cooperation between nations and people. Pener Kropoopkin has issued a correction as of 15:03 on May 12, 2021 |
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May 12, 2021 14:57
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Just as general advice: anybody lamenting the fact that they'll never realize their utopia is setting themselves up for terminal depression & apathy. You can never allow yourself to suppose that utopia is possible, because the conditions of its construction cannot be prefigured. The fact you even say it's the utopia "I" envision means you're putting too much value on your own ideological thinking, and that's not going to survive contact with any actually existing society. It doesn't matter what system or conditions we live under, because if you live in a society your personal vision for the world just isn't going to happen. If you were the god-emperor of Albion it probably wouldn't happen. The personal interests of individuals are inevitably at odds with each other. That's why socialism is a collective project which can only be envisioned and constructed through popular participation. People have to agree together on the ideal plan of action.
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May 12, 2021 15:15
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feel like poo poo just want him back
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May 12, 2021 15:25
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genericnick posted:I mean, I don't even disagree in principle that leaving the EU would have been worth it with a plan, but Corbyn's Labour couldn't have done it. And for the simple reason that Corbyn and the people around him could take nearly unlimited amounts of punishment themselves, but leaving the EU without still running your economy along EU rules, meaning for the benefit of your local and not so local oligarchs, means inflicting quite a lot of intermediate pain on your constituents. And I don't think they'd have been ready to do that. Like despite half a decade of drama I'm not sure that Brexit UK now has meaningfully more leeway for industrial policy than before and I fear it wouldn't have arrived at vastly better terms even under Corbyn. Yeah, the paradox of leaving the EU is that the best way to do it is with a socialist state that can weather that pain, but also the EU isn't gonna let you be a socialist state. So you get Brexit instead. I on the other hand, would simply not join the EU.
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May 12, 2021 15:51
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Jose posted:I think part of the problem is none of the labour right want to be the figurehead for trying to "fix" the party but we'll see. Kieth is a useful patsy for doing all the stuff they want done and he's nowhere near finished doing the job What can the Labour right even "do" as a party permanently out of government? Other than having sweet no-show jobs.
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May 12, 2021 15:56
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the sex ghost posted:https://mobile.twitter.com/martinkettle/status/1392746038595829763 Some people nonetheless voted for parties that aren't Conservative, which has prevented their victory from being total.
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May 13, 2021 12:00
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This is the blow to cancel culture we've been needing.
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May 13, 2021 12:28
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Really this is perfectly in line with the liberal principle of tolerating all opinions and letting people think for themselves.
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May 13, 2021 12:30
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How can there be a new holocaust if there never was one? Simple, innit?
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May 13, 2021 15:53
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If I Did It by Sr. Adolfo Hifter
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May 13, 2021 16:25
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https://twitter.com/stefmowords/status/1392802739441315846?s=20
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May 13, 2021 20:04
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Labour is more electable now than ever before.
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May 14, 2021 12:44
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gonadic io posted:He really would have yeah. Losing to the worst person on the planet once and very nearly a second time is not a demonstration of the dem's successful policy. ALSO note that Bernie is Chair of Senate Budget Committee, imagine asking Starmer to make corbyn shadow economic sec to appease the left. lol. Right. Biden did not even run on any kind of neoliberal platform and he hasn't even governed as one. Running purely on being the party of opposition is only going to work when the party in power has exhausted all of its good will with the public, and Bojo is not Trump.
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May 14, 2021 18:39
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John Charity Spring posted:a non-universal universal basic income universal pilot programs
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May 16, 2021 15:15
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that was posted today
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May 17, 2021 03:16
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Pistol_Pete posted:Uk centrists (and particularly anti-semitism obsessed Uk centrists) have a very bizarre relationship with the Labour Party. They continually shriek that it's riddled through with racism, appear on tv news denouncing the party, post endless tweet-chains about how their mental health is being ruined by the Labour party's disgusting acceptance of anti-Jewish racism... but they never actually leave. It's kind of a: "We must destroy the party in order to save it" mentality, although even that doesn't quite fit as an explanation for their weird, weird pathology. The party's values have to perfectly reflect their own values because liberals substitute the social for the personal. They will never leave because it's their personal crusade to make Labour the goody good party for good boys who like to be good. the sex ghost posted:He thinks it'll be a real life yes minister but it'll actually be a real life thick of it. Do it Remember when Anthony Weiner let a film crew follow him around?
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May 18, 2021 12:07
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yall talkin about bein woke and puttin me to fuckin sleep
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May 18, 2021 22:46
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Secret Protocols of the Elders of Labour* *yet to be determined
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May 19, 2021 12:23
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MikeCrotch posted:I wonder when Labour ministers are going to get sick of Keith just absolutely hanging them out to dry on the news They're never going to backstab Keith because none of them want the job.
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May 19, 2021 13:39
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You can talk about "factionalism" being a problem, but Tory factions are all based on petty ambitions. They have a united ideological project. Liberals and the left are directly opposed to each other in their political agendas, and no amount of electoralist coalition building is going to overcome that. For either side to get what it wants means shutting out the other from having any real decision making ability. So maybe without the Right, Labour will never win any elections but you're not winning elections anyway. At least with an actual left wing party there'd be an organization that's worth a drat and that can be built into something. Tut-tutting factionalism for political expediency got you into this mess.
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May 19, 2021 15:46
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Private Speech posted:was stalin a nazi? discuss quote:What, then, is the way out?
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May 20, 2021 13:10
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CredulousAtBest posted:gov: "we are banning porn so it's not all bad
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May 20, 2021 13:25
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Jakabite posted:not only does she attend them, but actually listed them as the number one thing that had helped her get through lockdown in a feature in Politico. every other respondent, including some quite unpleasant and ghoulish people, said nice things like their dog, their bike, flowers, nature, and she said attending dawn raids. I don’t like to throw round pop-psych diagnoses but I genuinely think she’s some sort of socio/psychopath. I don’t imagine someone like boris or gove would at all enjoy seeing the on the ground effects of their policies - watching people be violently ripped from their homes isn’t something the vast majority of people enjoy seeing live. But she really does and I find that terrifying. I’m really hoping Boris shuffles her out of that post soon or she’ll be personally machine gunning protestors in the next few years. She's a fascist, OP. It's ok to say it. It's not ableist to use the f-word.
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May 20, 2021 17:29
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The only good thing about WW1 is how many sons of the aristocracy were obliterated or left to rot in No Man's Land, with not even so much as a pinky left for their families to bury. The one time in Britain's wretched history where some modicum of class equality was finally realized.
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May 20, 2021 17:33
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happyhippy posted:Someone write a time travel movie about trying to stop WW1 but not for the usual tropes. Half of American alt history fiction is like this, but it's for letting the Confederacy win the war.
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May 21, 2021 01:42
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Jose posted:Alternate history but Napoleon defeats the British It's too beautiful to even think about. 
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May 21, 2021 01:50
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Britain denying aid to India? Where have I heard that one before?
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May 21, 2021 15:17
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Jose posted:lol this twitter thread is incredible. just all the various columnists and pundits and "consultants" bigging up starmer No other group of people in western politics have ever been more wrong about anything. It's like when a cult leader predicts the date of the apocalypse, and just has to make up a new one when they prove to be wrong.
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May 22, 2021 17:02
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shirts and skins posted:I mean, American media in 2016, but it's a close race I suppose. American media was wrong about Trump but they were able to defeat him eventually. Meanwhile the Labour right has been doubling, tripling, and quadrupling down on dogshit political campaigns and leaders since tha god Tony Blair went back in his coffin.
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May 23, 2021 02:01
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https://twitter.com/marcusbarnett_/status/1396140484918185985?s=21
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May 23, 2021 08:37
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Tears Starmer
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May 23, 2021 12:48
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Black activists who appropriate Black Panther aesthetics tend to be either actors trying to boost their media profiles, or deeply reactionary. Let's check out Taking The Initiative Party's website:quote:The Taking the Initiative Party was established by a group of British business people 
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May 24, 2021 12:30
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Dr. Kyle Farnsworth posted:The thing about libs is they aren't happy with just winning they want you to admit they were right all along. Lib psychology demands they be the smartest and best in the room (which is obviously why they should be in charge) and that's why they will never be happy with victory alone. You have to kiss the ring. And even that isn't enough. You have to grovel constantly WHILE they rub your face in it. There are still ripples from the Bernie coalition that are significant and terror-inducing for liberals, like how progressives recently took over the Utah Democratic Party. I think the liberal superiority complex stems purely from them being hegemonic but having nothing to show for it. So if liberalism hasn't liberated anybody since WW2 and we're being ground down by the constant state of capitalist immiseration, at least you can feel good about being the most correct and the most powerful. Every right wing political camp has a superiority complex, but liberals have the most power to change things and don't so they're the most annoying about it. Conservatives don't have that problem because they run on promising to change nothing. Business as usual is validating to conservatives but invalidating for liberals, and that's part of why they're perennial losers. Pener Kropoopkin has issued a correction as of 03:08 on May 25, 2021 |
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May 25, 2021 03:04
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Nice toe pick, now where's the MP?Ghost Leviathan posted:Wasn't it the Arizona party that got taken over by progressives and caused all the centrists to chuck the biggest wobbly and try to burn down the whole thing? We're both wrong. It's Nevada. It was Harry Reid's machine that got taken over. Pener Kropoopkin has issued a correction as of 12:51 on May 25, 2021 |
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May 25, 2021 12:46
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There's no way Starmer doesn't know that line from the Simpsons, right?
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May 27, 2021 10:46
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Jose posted:You'd think eve barlow and the other people who had their brain rotted by the antisemitism poo poo over the last 5 years would at least condemn Boris hosting orban 
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May 27, 2021 11:28
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what do we need "community organizers" for anyway?
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May 28, 2021 22:24
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Jose posted:Door knocking to ask what policies they should have lmao Gotta know what the people want so you won't do it.
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May 31, 2021 09:07
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:I dunno anything about Carrie Symonds but if my partner dumped me to shack up with Boris Johnson I’d consider it a bullet dodged and probably be grateful that it happened. If you were a British journalist you'd have no shame.
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May 31, 2021 19:57
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Communist Thoughts posted:they just hate the left as much as we hate them, but they have the gumption and enough hands on the levers to actually do the purging when theyr in power and yet many posters ITT would condemn Stalin for targeting wreckers smdh some people never learn
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Jun 5, 2021 07:18
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