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Nitrousoxide posted:I just have to say how absolutely WILD it is that they introduced TWO ways to make a Hari AI. It seems extremely pointless to do so. They literally could have just had the vault be a projector for ship Hari to talk through. There was zero reason to make him an entirely separate Hari who was copied with an entirely different method. It's not like vault Hari wouldn't know the overall plan about the Second Foundation that Ship Hari revealed to Gaal. He knows the secret parts of the plan too. Maybe it's just me since it was such a small thing but they basically ruined a really important part of the story with that. Hari recorded his plans for the future and at every predicted crisis a recording shows up and tells everyone what's going on exactly. It was shocking during the first crisis because people had begun to doubt over the decades and he had never appeared. So seeing a 50+ year old recording telling them exactly what was happening restored their faith and gave them purpose. Book Spoiler This also was an extremely huge deal when after centuries of perfect crisis recordings one turns out completely wrong and nobody knows what to do because Hari was wrong. They just stand around in shock as the wrong recording confidently continues. If it's just Hari himself as an immortal AI strutting out of the vault to comment on what's been happening it loses a little in the translation to me. I get that in the 1950s Asimov wrote it as a recording and by 2020 we are going to have hologram AI chewing scenery but it was a bad choice to undo that part of his original concept. Just-In-Timeberlake posted:I think not knowing one single thing, or even hearing about, the source material is a requirement. Then maybe, just maybe, you might be able to enjoy it. It's probably this. Most good things I've heard about it are people realizing they can draw comparisons to modern day or liking the political drama and things that were virtually non-existent in the books. Foundation is my all time favorite book series from my all time favorite author but I didn't want to be the person ranting about the superiority of the source material so I gave the whole season a shot and woof. I'll keep watching it because I watched Under The Dome and Lost but it's just an extreme disappointment. Rectal Death Adept fucked around with this message at 06:58 on Nov 21, 2021 |
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Nov 21, 2021 06:50
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Mokotow posted:So I never fully got this part - who caused space 9/11? Was it Hari, Demerzel or it just doesn’t matter? They'll probably drag out a pointless reveal for half of Season 2 that Hari was the one that did space 9/11 and also hosed up the Cleon clones which would be perfect for the Apple TV version since it would rob the story of Hari's predictive ability by making him an rear end in a top hat just make a lazy plot twist everyone can see coming. It shouldn't matter who did those things, it was just society and time, but we can have someone lecture the Hari AI on being a mass murderer while he talks about the weight of the future, the trillions of lives saved blahblahblah. If Gaal and Salvor can just go into perfect stasis for centuries then they should be around to fight with him for awhile. Owling Howl posted:The mass murder of the Foundation civilians was pointless. Everything went according to Huntress clever plan up to that point and nothing was gained tactically or otherwise. Just a lot of murder for the sake of it. Then Hari shows up and tells everybody to be friends and then they are friends. It was actually strange it went according to the Huntress' plan because after the initial invasion and then several scenes of her army going house by house executing anyone that moved THEN she started asking them who their experts in various disciplines were. I guess she is lucky that literally everyone she needed turned out to be alive after what seemed like a shitload of indiscriminate murder. Rectal Death Adept fucked around with this message at 03:50 on Nov 23, 2021 |
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Nov 23, 2021 03:48
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maybe they can rebrand this as a futuristic sequel to game of thrones and then let someone make an actual Foundation tv series
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Nov 23, 2021 21:26
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I'm reimagining that post into a modern take on it's story Hari emerges from the vault, and gestures towards the gathered Goons from the Foundation thread. "Wow poo poo seems hosed" Confused Goons look at each other. "What? Do you not have any input on this situation? Didn't you predict everything with math?" - they ask. AI Hari shrugs "I thought it was going to be good." Everyone stares at eachother for several minutes before Hari turns around and walks back into the vault Give me $50,000,000
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Nov 24, 2021 13:41
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Why don't they make the entire space ship out of the space coffin box?
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Nov 28, 2021 05:05
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apple give me the show I will retcon 80% of the first season by having all of it be a hallucination Gaal had when she first activated the timecube. Hari says something like "You can't get lost in the math or you start to see improbable and poorly written insanity"
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Dec 1, 2021 15:26
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ikanreed posted:You'd like to think that any action at all on this show generates a realistic human response? Salvor seemed as confused and bored as I was. That seemed pretty authentic.
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Dec 4, 2021 04:34
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31g0YE61PLQ
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Feb 1, 2022 23:45
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I've thought a lot about this and the only positive thing I can say about the show was probably accidental. In the final episode when the Invictus jumps to Terminus and bonks a bunch of asteroids out of the way. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUMSoFt99kI&t=497s I always got the feeling from the book series that technology was just a settled concept. It was impossibly advanced. So much time had passed that they had even forgotten the anything about Earth and 50,000 years later, 12000 years into the galactic empire, our spaceships actually would just comically bonk rocks out of the way like that. They didn't need to worry about things the same way since Trantor was a giant machine and the Empire was 25,000,000 planets and 500 quadrillion people. They probably just didn't understand science and it was a complete accident though.
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Dec 4, 2022 01:47
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this show deserves this argument
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Dec 4, 2022 05:04
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Eiba posted:I think people really overstate this point. The Foundation TV show is about the group of intellectuals struggling to survive on a frontier planet with a mission to rebuild the galaxy after the collapse of the galactic empire, as well as the story of the empire's collapse from the perspective of the emperor. The first half of that is the core story of the books, and the 2nd half doesn't change anything. If you greatly simplify the story to "people on a frontier planet living through collapse" then yeah this TV show is Foundation. The same way as "People in space on spaceships in an alliance" would qualify Battlestar Galactica as Star Trek. Xealot posted:Here, it just feels disingenuous. This story is an extremely intellectual exercise about social order and chaos, about both gradual and seismic changes to a society over generational timespans. It's not compatible with all the familiar sci-fi mysteries surrounding individual heroes or Chosen Ones or heroic destinies...special individuals are kind of anathema to the exercise, really. That's the part where it feels like the writers had some other itch they wanted to scratch, but needed to call it Foundation to trick people into watching. Exactly. Not only is Seldon immortal now there is perfect stasis available to everyone to travel around a few centuries at a time so we have Chosen One Heroes from Trantor and the original expedition hanging around throughout time. Seldon no longer laid out a series of dictates and predictions to be played in a theater to carefully guide humanity with as little information as possible he is a hologram that hangs out and watches everything and reacts in real time with periodic updates after walking out of his weird space coffin. Psychohistory is now both some special magical thing and also completely pointless as he is checking his math forever. The fear and the hope implied by the people in the written story at relying on these ancient tapes is replaced with everyone wondering when Seldon is going to show up and comment on what's happening then tell them what they should do since he made a good series of guesses he can babysit through time. So not only do they completely ignore the premise and turn it into the most simple elements of "predicted change over time + Fall of an Empire" and do it shittily they ignore a huge part of the series which was exploring how a society that had developed for centuries on these blind predictions specifically to change 40,000 years of human history would deal with the aberrant individual factor Seldon couldn't have predicted with the Mule being a genetic mutant and psychic. Now his plan depends on several psychics he totally accounted for with Magic and if one dies or is unavailable The Universe Creates Another as the Magical Math says there will be one there at that time. It's completely different and it's not good. It definitely does seem like it's entirely due to wanting to focus on a set of Chosen One Protagonists in a setting that was an Human Species Anthology over tens of Millenia. Now they have to be immortal and travel forward through time at will even if this completely dismantles the entire premise. Rectal Death Adept fucked around with this message at 12:40 on Dec 11, 2022 |
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Dec 11, 2022 12:33
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Charles 1998 posted:I just finished reading the first three books of Foundation, and I still think the show was good. It differs so much that it felt like I wasn't spoiled from reading the books. They differ so greately that I can't say whether one is better than the other, but both the books and the show were equally entertaining and gripping. David Goyer alt spotted man of steel loving sucked by the way
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Jan 7, 2023 20:52
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Jan 8, 2023 20:16
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gently caress it i watched Under The Dome I can watch this
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Jan 9, 2023 05:40
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Rappaport posted:The trailer had a very angry space doggo in it. I'm... Conflicted. In the books the Foundation is set up as this enduring institution. After some initial anxiety and the dramatic first appearance of Seldon's first crisis recording they became confident and assured in the path forward. When things seem bad Seldon has historically appeared and told them exactly what is happening and exactly what to do. The entire story revolves around Seldon being right and The Foundation working. Then, an unpredictable aberration, a psychic antagonist appears proving that Seldon can be wrong. That was more important than the mule himself and is what made him so compelling. The entire foundation of their beliefs were completely destroyed when the recordings were wrong. The show just has psychics now. Seldon even needed one for the first crisis and predicted that in advance. Gaal being absent just led to her psychic daughter being there. So however compelling or integral to the written story the antagonist was I'm pretty sure we could guess now and be mostly correct. Martial artist capable of beating the protagonists. Leather outfit. Vague, probably religious lofty rambling. Either weirdly violent or weirdly benevolent with no in-between. Kickboxing in a Return of the Jedi throne room.
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Jan 9, 2023 06:17
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IN A WORLD WHERE ONE MAN IS AN EMPIRE THIS SUMMER
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Jan 9, 2023 06:55
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bawfuls posted:It all just bums me out because they came so close to an awesome show! The visual style is excellent, from the way they depicted hyperspace jumps to Empire’s mural, it’s gorgeous! Lee Pace and his story owns as everyone says. But to gently caress up the writing so badly that it becomes the opposite of what it was in the books, what a waste. I would be curious to hear some behind the scenes on the show’s conception and how they got to this point. Do they really not have anyone in charge who’s read the books? Did some suit sabotage the process? I think this is getting the Star Trek show treatment. There may be fans or writers on the staff but complete control is given to one person who was minted in a Hack Writing 101 factory that wants to make the same terrible poo poo over and over and they keep getting given the ability to do it somehow. People involved probably really care but can't do anything about it. I can't imagine literally everyone on the writing staff is this ignorant of Asimov's actual story. I'm convinced that Strange New Worlds was only good because Alex Kurtzman was given three shows to produce simultaneously and since Picard was the new hotness everyone was interested in all of the dumb, moronic and boring nonsensical bullshit went primarily there. The Hollywood Singular Vision can't multitask. David Goyer is completely terrible from his work like Man of Steel and Batman V Superman so I assume since this was a headline show for Apple+ he was just all over it 24/7 which is why it's more like a CW superhero show than an adaptation of a story he probably never read. Rectal Death Adept fucked around with this message at 13:57 on Jan 9, 2023 |
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Jan 9, 2023 13:54
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Falling Skies, Under The Dome and Walking Dead all had great hatewatching threads but Foundation feels different. I'll cheer when the historian that won't stop quoting George Washington ramps a sweet motorcycle over exploding aliens or something. The ending of Terra Nova's first season when someone runs from a dinosaur that is running from an explosion? Sign me up. Maybe it's my baggage with the original story getting in the way and by the third season when Hari Seldon is on a salmon ladder it won't feel so bad.
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Jan 9, 2023 16:47
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mods rename me to Hari Seldon's Salmon Ladder
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Jan 9, 2023 23:50
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Phenotype posted:Robert Evans thought the first season was great, and he's apparently read the books, too. I don't know what to think anymore. Maybe we're just jaded and stubborn? Plenty of people have this weird need to be contrarian when there is an overwhelming majority opinion about something. It's Cinema Discussos entire existence to try and look smart with a new perspective no one else has. Picking the worst trash from an rear end to write an eloquent defense of doesn't change that, at best, the series would be a forgettable C Tier science fiction property if they weren't also pretending it was a Foundation story.
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May 12, 2023 12:57
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calling it now, the Mule is going to wear leather and kickbox everyone
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May 12, 2023 13:47
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Hari Seldon's planet is famous not only for being reclusive nerds but for it's martial arts. I have programmed this form with the universes most deadly and refined fighting style. But you see Hari Swoledon, as a psychic I can read minds ....even digital ones *copies pose*
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May 12, 2023 15:12
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please cancel this
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Jun 16, 2023 01:58
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Chemtrailologist posted:I hope he shoots lightning like Palpatine. Mule is going to just do unbeatable matrix kickflipping and beat everyone with a speech about how he can read every punch before it is even thrown Then the wisened pacifist politician Salvor Hardin is going to learn Ultra Instinct from DBZ and spin kick him into submission by fighting without thoughts for him to read Smash cut to credits with Nickelback's "Hero"
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Jun 19, 2023 19:10
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When reading the books I always thought Daneel Olivaw didn't play a big enough part so who is to say if getting dicked down by the empire is a worse portrayal
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Jul 16, 2023 13:46
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I'd have less of a problem with this show if it wasn't poisoning the IP and making sure we probably won't ever have an attempt at an actual big budget Foundation story Sex Clones in Karate Space is fine I guess. Just call it that. Boris Galerkin posted:I’m having a hard time accepting that the will smith iRobot movie and this tv show takes place in the same universe lol. Still time for a badass motorcycle chase but I feel like they would have led with that in the trailer
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Jul 16, 2023 19:56
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Mr. Nemo posted:Is this season good at all beyond Cleon? If you go to a restaurant and get served a diarrhea sandwich and piss lemonade is getting just the piss lemonade on the second trip good? Really not worth drinking 64 ounces of iced piss but the situation has definitely improved. It's better than the first time I guess.
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Aug 19, 2023 23:58
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DropsySufferer posted:I expected Day had some sceme behind the marriage and is just bluffing about ending the genetic dynasty. I figured he would kill her off after the marriage and take over her country. Now I'm not so sure. Is he really going along with ending the cleon clones or is he just ploting for the right moment? We are thinking about this harder than the writers but I thought that Day seemed to realize he was destined to be forgotten as he was almost swapped out for a replacement unceremoniously and no one would have ever known. A disposable clone in a series of disposable clones. Using the marriage to become a new Cleon The First Of Something seemed like a valid motivation over just backstabbing an outspoken rival for territory. This would make the current Day important and memorable for ages as the last Cleon or first king of the new dynasty. The original Cleon started the genetic dynasty for the same reasons and it's only maintained by complete selfless dedication to continuance but the current Day explained he felt fear for himself at the first ever assassination attempt. It would make sense that he doesn't want to get flushed down a space toilet with the status quo as is tradition. Rectal Death Adept fucked around with this message at 23:18 on Aug 25, 2023 |
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Aug 25, 2023 23:16
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Cojawfee posted:I think they were just trying to do a twist where the gaal and Salvor stuff is just before the stuff happening with hober an constant. It's not like they are particularly connected anymore, so they could happen at any time. When Gaal and Salvor wake up they use the radiant to point out that they awoke during the second crisis and needed to guide events. It isn't some time fuckery on the Terminus side since it's a big plot point that this is the second crisis there, not some undefined future crisis. So either it's 4th dimensional fuckery and Salvor's telepathic journey arrived in the past the way Gaal telepathically travels to the future or Gaal/Salvor are just in a multi-year "Second Crisis" and their story takes place before the Terminus part of it.
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Sep 6, 2023 23:43
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fuckin 4th dimensional hypercubes, how do they work?
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Sep 7, 2023 00:04
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DaveKap posted:As far as the battle being a performance... I am pretty sure they mentioned last episode that when the Invictus warps, it creates a black hole. There is the possibility that it did actually warp as it crashed into the planet because that was always the plan. You could say Psychohistory knew that Day would want to throw it into the planet, they were always prepared for it, and the black hole left behind by a warp caused all the destruction we saw. The thing was certainly spinning the way it's supposed to when it warps and the black hole was right there inside it as it crashed. Doesn't really make sense it would form from just being shot at a bunch. Finally, perhaps the reason Terminus looked so poorly developed was because most of the actual development was happening somewhere else anyway. Maybe at the Second Foundation? A performance as in an intentional sacrificial play to fool the empire a second time. The first was using the Invictus to mimic the signal of a stellar phenomenon that made empire think they had been destroyed for almost a century. It makes more sense that the three groups of people joining forces with decades to prepare didn't just spend that time to stay exactly the same size in that one city with the one big ship they had exactly where Empire sent them. The size of the Foundation in this timeline has never been established one way or the other so unless it's bad writing that doesn't consider points like this then they wouldn't be gone, they just made a really convincing performance to get Empire to leave them the gently caress alone. That would firmly establish in the mind of Empire that the Foundation is dead and they exist nowhere. He won. He blew up their entire planet. There is no certainty now that Empire can just go "Hey, what about the home base of those assholes that hate us? When was the last time we swung by there? Trillions of people know their address." With the shows writing though they really could have just been lazy idiots that got genocided and "Foundation" is a mantle carried forth by different people in the next crisis or something. Hari could be the one that killed them all like that for the greater good and the Terminus people really thought they were doing a good job or something. They wouldn't be aware of the performance at that point and sticking around their home base after Hober Mallow literally attacked the palace in one of their ships is because they are dumb and didn't think to fly away in the Invictus to literally anywhere else. Rectal Death Adept fucked around with this message at 07:14 on Sep 9, 2023 |
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Sep 9, 2023 07:10
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It's hard to believe that they were dumb enough to hang around their single home base with their single ship after Seldon's plan 9/11'd the Empire. They had scenes where the militarized scientific portion of Foundation outright said they were up to other things in preparation while the priests went around tricking people. The space scientists would either have to have spent all that time devising a plan where they thought a single older ship could handle an entire Empire of millions of worlds with entire waves of fleets of ships so well that the women and children could still watch their victory in orbit from space starbucks ...or literally anything else. They already hid their presence once before and were founded by scientists and their children focused exclusively on the tens of millenia view so it makes sense at least. Either way Seldon destroyed Terminus. If they did populate it with religious volunteers to buy time then he is a little less of an rear end in a top hat than exploding a populated planet because it helped him collapse Empire for the Plan. Rectal Death Adept fucked around with this message at 08:43 on Sep 9, 2023 |
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Sep 9, 2023 07:41
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DaveKap posted:Speaking of satisfying: me when the waiter at olive garden calls for reinforcement parmesan
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Sep 9, 2023 22:41
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I actually liked this episode and in general the season despite hating what the first season did to my boy. I guess the offense of ruining a chance at an actual "Foundation" adaptation wore off and this became it's own thing. It's why we actually have things to discuss this season. Mokotow posted:The Vault is magic! There, done! I will admit in all of the speculation that Terminus was a sacrifice or a trick and people mentioning the castling technology (which would have needed to swap with people from the fleet and be noticeable) I did not consider the possibility of the magic space coffin using unmentioned star trek teleporters to grab everyone except hober mallow and the admiral. That was a bit out of left field that there is now an infinite-on-the-inside 4D space polygon out there beaming people up and cloaking. Before that reveal the only real possibility was that Hari just let Terminus die for The Plan(tm) So I guess good job writers for pulling something surprising out of your asses
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Sep 16, 2023 03:13
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same page club
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Sep 16, 2023 06:15
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imagine four foundations on the edge of a crisis psychohistory works the same way
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Sep 16, 2023 20:24
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DaveKap posted:It seems like the show diverges enough from the books that I'd rather just watch the show and not touch the books at all if it's gonna make me mad about the divergence. Foundation is my favorite book series, I read all 5 at a pretty formative time and grew up on Asimov stories and Robot novels. You'd only be mad about the show doing the books dirty if you read the books first and had some kind of attachment to them. Even that isn't permanent if you can get over the fact that the show has nothing to do with the original story. Once you can separate the two the show is fine on it's own. This only happened halfway through the second season for me though. It may even make you appreciate the books more since it's the same general concept of future prediction in 47,000AD just done differently. I found the hook of a society forming around a series of what amounts to VHS tapes left by Seldon and exploring an anthology at different points in his predicted future more compelling than the show but you can judge that for yourself. If you like the show the books are a mostly good and complete story while the show will be multiple years to develop whatever the gently caress it's doing and might get cancelled at some point. Rectal Death Adept fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Sep 17, 2023 |
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Sep 17, 2023 04:00
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alexandriao posted:I don't know a non-rude way to say this and I feel it needs to be said, so, sorry — while it is rude I know that I'd appreciate someone prodding me about this. don't rantshame
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Sep 17, 2023 20:59
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Spiteski posted:Yea I had a great time with this season. More so than last season. Bit gutted that certain people won't be coming along to the next season Bel Riose was fantastic, but definitely makes sense that his story finishes with "accomplishing" killing a Cleon. Also, Homer Marshmallow was cool and it sucks that he's gone. Sucks that the magical space coffin only works on the ground to the point where one random person a continent away in the middle of nowhere is fine but someone in orbit is hosed.
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Sep 18, 2023 04:36
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I think Salvor is going to come back. The plot that the future can't be changed and she is there at the final confrontation with The Mule seems like something the show wouldn't waste so easily. If she comes back then it brings the certainty of the future back into question. There are magical space coffins and magical prime radiant made robots in secret bases that can just make people so all they need is some technobabble about a neural backup on the Beggar or something.
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Sep 19, 2023 06:37
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