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Eric Cantonese posted:I would love to know when that has happened. Jo Jorgensen got more votes than Biden's margin over Trump in Georgia, Arizona, Michigan, and Wisconsin which is enough to overturn the election and led to some hilarious handwringing from the worst people ever. But this presumes that everyone who voted Libertarian "owed" Trump their votes instead which is a dubious assumption. E: to save mod time and posters' report button fingers, FoS sent me a PM last week saying my USNews threadban would not carry over to US Current Events
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Nov 2, 2021 16:34
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Nix Panicus posted:Democrats spent Conservative Democrats don't really want to rile up and excite Democrats (at least not with promises to do things) because then they're expected to do things and get backlash if they don't (see Hillary misinterpreting Obama's and the Democrats' falling approval as a consequence of overpromising, and therefore following a strategy of 'managing expectations' in 2016 with disastrous results). So this is really all they have: find a way to rile people up that doesn't confer any obligation to do things ("butT rump!") or call Jill Stein voters stupid babies in the hopes they can depress everyone into accepting that better things aren't possible so resign yourself to voting blue to keep things from getting worse. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Nov 2, 2021 |
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Nov 2, 2021 17:38
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These off year elections are when they slip horrible poo poo onto the ballot while most people aren't paying attention. I went out to vote against an initiative to force Austin to spend a third of the whole city budget on the loving cops, and I'm not optimistic about it after another initiative to make being homeless practically illegal passed last spring. On the other hand there has been an active campaign against it because unlike the homelessness ban, this initiative threatens stuff affluent liberals care about like funding for parks, libraries, etc, the city fire department has even been placing a ton of ads against it so who knows.
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Nov 2, 2021 19:32
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Hellblazer187 posted:See, that stuff I knew about. I know for routine stuff US health insurance is garbage. But I was wondering does it help for truly catastrophic things.
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Nov 2, 2021 22:33
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I mean why not, incumbency protection is absolutely massive and even if you do lose usually it's to someone even more well-funded because they sold out even more
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Nov 2, 2021 23:45
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Willa Rogers posted:That overheated rhetoric is going to prove as useful for Dems next year as it's proving for T-Mac this year. According to CNN's exit poll a  literal Nazi won 13% of black voters   https://www.cnn.com/election/2021/november/exit-polls/virginia/governor Hm maybe if the plan was to run on what a racist Nazi the other guy is, the Democrats shouldn't have rallied around the governor whose defense to a blackface scandal was "at least I wasn't the other guy in the KKK hood, probably?"
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Nov 3, 2021 01:56
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The Democratic establishment nominated McAuliffe: they are the real accelerationists
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Nov 3, 2021 02:21
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Baronash posted:I remember the reign of Scott Walker in Wisconsin and how he spent 8 years razing the state in service of corporate interests. It feels lovely to watch that happen in a state where, by all accounts, there was a ton of progressive enthusiasm and action. Reminder that Scott Walker's crowning pro-business labor-busting achievement (making Wisconsin a Right To Work state) was already the status quo in Virginia and the Virginia Democrats stonewalled the bills to undo it for years.
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Nov 3, 2021 02:33
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Nonsense posted:Yeah the knives out strategy the right wing Dems used paying off dividends tonight. Yea it's the standard strategy right. Tell voters we can't have better things because Republicans are all Nazis and chuds and we must stop them with all our might...right up until voters vote for better things then they're out partnering with Republicans and begging Republican voters to turn out and vote to stop better things.
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Nov 3, 2021 02:52
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Austin, Texas also overwhelmingly votes down a referendum to make 2/3 (!?!?!?!?) of their budget dedicated to law enforcement. Dude it was so loving stupid, even the Austin Fire Department was running ads on streaming services against it. I was really worried after that referendum to make homelessness basically a crime passed last spring, but the Back the Blue initiative went down in flames lol
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Nov 3, 2021 04:35
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Sanguinia posted:I'm not going to lie, this seems like a really thin argument to me. Like, would the people of Virginia not KNOW that their Democratic Trifect Government is responsible for all the good things that happened without needing it to be trumpeted if the refrain is always that voters will respond to material improvements? I mean if this is what you think what was the point of any of his campaign, do Virginians not know who Trump was?
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Nov 3, 2021 06:17
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DeadlyMuffin posted:It's mostly to own the libs. I think a lot of it also comes from folks without skin in the game. Are you arguing a Clintonite new Democrat supported by Bill Kristol is too left-wing? Who exactly do you want Democrats to run? Mitt Romney? Also considering transphobia and bathroom bills were one of the issues the Youngkin campaign hammered on, you should probably think real hard about whether you want Democrats to move right to appeal to Republican voters and what that would mean.
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Nov 3, 2021 10:13
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It probably didn't help the narrative that Youngkin is a racist fascist stormtrooper when it was revealed that McAuliffe is an investor in his rapacious predatory vulture capitalist fund. "This Hitler guy is bad news folks, an existential threat to us all!" *10,000 shares of Hitler Partners IV falls out of my pocket* VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 14:10 on Nov 3, 2021 |
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Nov 3, 2021 14:03
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FlamingLiberal posted:This is really a big red flag for the midterms This is why I was skeptical of the turn to suburban voters in the first place, despite how much-vaunted it was in liberal circles, on these boards, etc The college educated suburbs isn't some magical land free from racism in contrast to the working class neighborhoods and rural areas populated by nothing but stupid racist troglodytes or whatever. Affluent white suburbanites basically agreed with pretty much all of Trump's platform because it was just the standard Republican platform, they were just offended that it was packaged in aggressive confrontational loutish wrapping rather than smug condescending dogwhistle wrapping. Not really a surprise they gravitated back to it once it had a smiling urbane sweater-vested face man again, good thing Democrats didn't garrotte union and working class support to make that pivot...oh wait what's that? They did? Oh god
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Nov 3, 2021 14:46
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FlamingLiberal posted:Right; I knew when Biden eked out a victory last year on the backs of people who primarily hated Trump that this was not a winning strategy long-term. A lot of them didn’t necessarily disagree with the platform Trump or the GOP put forward but they just thought he was too much of an rear end in a top hat. It certainly seemed to bring out a lot more people than came out for say Romney, but it also drove a lot of people away and boosted turnout on the other side too at least in 2017-2020 anyway. I guess it was an asset overall in 2016 since it seemed to have led to democratic complacency as no one could really imagine such an rear end in a top hat actually being the president
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Nov 3, 2021 15:04
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Pook Good Mook posted:Obama (and even Biden kinda) showed that you can win an election by trying to get votes in places you won't "win." Sucks rear end, but he couldn't shut the gently caress up about how he'd been to every one of Texas' 254 counties and he came within spitting distance of beating Ted Cruz in Texas where no Democrat had won statewide in a quarter century, and he ran comfortably ahead of the gubernatorial candidate who didn't even campaign aside from some billboards and whose message was  (based on the debate she would...have used the rainy day fund on Hurricane Harvey a day earlier  )Then Texas Dems went back to nominating former Republican woman TROOPS for senator who didn't leave the big cities and welp Just acting like you care a little bit instead of writing off whole regions as not worth it makes a difference VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 15:32 on Nov 3, 2021 |
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Nov 3, 2021 15:27
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Groovelord Neato posted:It's not as if the party is treating as an existential threat either considering the inaction against members of Congress who refused to certify and still treating the Republicans as their colleagues. Yeah the obvious lack of sincerity is undermining whatever they're trying to accomplish by harping on this "Republicans are going to use their gerrymandered control of state governments to steal the presidency in 2024! We have to defend democracy!" "So we should...ban partisan gerrymandering?" "No! Thats not bipartisan! That would annoy our Republican friends across the aisle! We'd have to dumpster our favorite undemocratic senate tradition to pass it!" "Oh. So we should purge the FBI and cops of right-wingers who ignored or abetted the insurrection!" "No! That's not bipartisan! And anyway antifa broke a bank window! We need law and order!" "Oh. So we should try to make up the disadvantage by steamrolling a popular agenda through congress over the objections of the quasi-fash legislators who refused to certify Biden's win, and beat them at the polls that way?" "No! That's not bipartisan! The Republicans are our friends and colleagues!" "OK so we should..." "Hold a dozen hearings where we yell that this will happen again unless you vote blue no matter who (except for any of our moderate Republican friends who we endorse and who will later vote to not certify a democratic winner in 2024)!"
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Nov 3, 2021 15:56
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Raenir Salazar posted:Because a healthy democracy requires multiple major parties to properly reflect the popular will. So is it a good thing that Virginia escaped single party rule and is back to a healthy multiparty government?
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Nov 3, 2021 16:06
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Gripweed posted:What do you mean by "fixing"? Do you mean waiting for the conservative judges to die in 25 years and replacing them then? Or do you mean actually fixing the court by doing court packing or term limits or something? Sure hoping that if Breyer retires and then Thomas gets a heart attack and Alito gets struck by lightning and we take the courts in a weekend isn't a great plan, but it's not like Democrats are going to do any of that court packing stuff, and it isn't the worst possible plan (which is Breyer pulls an RGB and hangs on against all reason before dying under a republican president, and now we need a heart attack, a lightning strike, and the Cuban brain laser hitting a third conservative justice before we can get milquetoast liberal rulings again)
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Nov 3, 2021 16:21
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Al-Saqr posted:Thanks to the Dems being cowards and not being able to pass any legistlation and being complete cucks to two senators and can’t punish them it’s pretty much guaranteed at this point the republicans will sweep 2022 and trump will be president again in 2024 better come to terms with that from now Midterms are in the bag
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Nov 3, 2021 17:16
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Darkrenown posted:"Hello, I don't care about diabetics dying because they can't afford drugs, or trans people being murdered. Wake me up when I can have some weed. Yes, I am the true leftist here" Is the goal winning elections, or is the goal owning someone with rhetoric. If the goal is winning elections it seems like people like this are an incredible opportunity for Democrats: you can get their votes for weed money! It doesn't get easier than that, just promise them a fraction of the free bailout money that Goldman Sachs gets constantly. Of course if getting to scold someone is more important well...
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Nov 3, 2021 17:58
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The core of the covid schooling issue seems to be that both parties dismissed actual solutions (eg paying parents to homeschool their kids while protecting their jobs) out of hand as inconvenient for businesses, and compressed the entire argument down to two horrible choices: OPEN 'ER UP and let the bodies fall where they may, or choose between leaving your kid unattended at home versus quitting your job to homeschool them until the eviction moratorium expires and you and your kid no longer have to worry about school because you're fighting raccoons for shelter in a discarded cardboard box from a rich computer-toucher's Amazon orders. Then Democrats were shocked that people gravitated to the risky but somewhat manageable option A rather than the completely devastating option B. And lost faith in institutions along the way, giving credence to Republican arguments that government is worthless and the only thing you can count on is that you'll have more money after another tax cut.
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Nov 3, 2021 18:44
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Gumball Gumption posted:You're all chicken poo poo idiots with failed relationships and kids you don't love might not be a winning platform Considering both major parties' policies on climate change, "you don't love your kids anyway: vote for us" is their implied slogan already
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Nov 3, 2021 19:14
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Fancy Pelosi posted:Just think, if Obama had broken the law to get things passed, then that would have opened the floodgates for Trump to break the law while he was in office. Thankfully, we had the rule of law to keep Trump in check. I get what you're saying, but I think the more salient point is Obama did break the law in spirit ("secret deliberations within the executive branch where we all agreed 'yep lets murder this American citizen' is 'due process'" lol) and in letter (illegal wiretapping, retaliating against whistle-blowers on said illegal surveillance) but because he did it for bad things to benefit bad people liberals don't care about thaaaaaat They only suddenly get a boner for The Rule Of Law or even just Tradition when someone asks why the president isn't even trying to do anything good. "Well it must be illegal or the guy who created student debt peonage in the first place and constantly voted to slash bankruptcy protections for everyone who isn't a business over his entire career would surely do something about the mess he happily created in the first place" they insist, desperately pasting together the pieces of their cracking worldview VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Nov 3, 2021 |
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Nov 3, 2021 21:36
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Mellow Seas posted:Just because the campaign was bad doesn't mean every individual thing they did was bad; sending those in a way that is targeted towards people who do not like Trump probably isn't the worst idea. If you're going to make your whole campaign "try to frame this conservative cosplaying as a moderate as a Trump acolyte," as McAuliffe inadvisedly did, then it's probably a good idea. *makes campaign ads for my opponent* "Look hear me out here: those were really good ads. He won didn't he, poo poo my ads were so good I almost voted for him"
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Nov 3, 2021 22:04
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I'm pretty unfazed by claims that a president forgiving student loans by executive order and daring the court to strike it down is a slippery slope to...uh...a president with unlimited power to uhhh forgives even more loans??? Even if that's bad for some reason, thanks to the expansion of executive power under Obama the president can be a dictator at any time because he has the unlimited power to assassinate political rivals at will as long as he takes care to say that after secret evidence presented at internal deliberations within the executive branch between officials he personally appointed they were deemed an imminent that to national security, and no one can overrule this decision or even see the evidence or exert any kind of oversight. The only remedy is impeachment which is (1) impotent as long as he has 34 supporters in the senate, but even if he doesn't (2) drones move faster than congressional deliberations. As long as Democrats support that executive power anything they say about how rescheduling weed is dangerous slippery-slope executive overreach is a crock of poo poo imo. If they were actually that worried about Trump coming back and being a dictator they'd pass a law rolling back all of Obama and Bush's power grabs but they dooooon't VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Nov 3, 2021 |
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Nov 3, 2021 22:23
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Flying-PCP posted:This just seems like you're saying they're uh, wrong. Arguing in bad faith would be like if they legitimately did not want student debt to be forgiven and were hiding behind rules, or were just posting to piss off people who want student debt forgiven, or something like that. For example remember the discussion around the eviction moratorium? This exact same Rule Of Law argument was brought up when people asked why Biden didn't just reword the EO like Trump did when the courts slapped him and buy some more time that way. No, that's an authoritarianism, that's a fascism, that's a left-wing Trumpism etc. But then when Biden did just that nobody protested or clutched their pearls about The Rule Of Law. So it seems it was more about rationalizing Biden's inaction than a principled stance against trying to get around court rulings.
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Nov 3, 2021 23:55
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Pamela Springstein posted:Joe Biden during the campaign was asked about marijuana and he said it should stay illegal because it's a gateway drug. He also said he doesn't care about student loan debt, he'd veto medicare 4 all, and told rich donors that nothing would fundamentally change. Yeah this something I'll never understand about politics: people just ignoring what a politician says and making up in their head the positions that they wish he held. I get why people fall for lies, even obvious lies. When Trump said he had a secret perfect healthcare plan he'd reveal after he took office, he was obviously lying but I can at least understand the frame of mind of someone who just wants to believe it so bad. It's stupid, but at least it's something he said. I don't get the people who heard him say he'd deport every illegal and said to themselves "ah well obviously his true position is every illegal except my wife" or whatever. I guess this is just the blue version of that. Biden says marijuana may be a ‘gateway drug.' Like most of his generation, he’s not ready to legalize it. But we're just supposed to pretend we didn't hear that I guess, and believe the reason he hasn't done anything to legalize it is because he really really wants to but he respects the Rules Wizard too much
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Nov 4, 2021 00:44
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Yeah those ballot measures would destroy tactics machine Democrats in New York use to exert control over who wins primaries, why on earth would they want any of that to pass.
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Nov 4, 2021 01:00
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:There were only 92 people who were convicted of any marijuana possession charges at the federal level in 2017 out of 2.3 million drug arrests. So it wouldn't even take him that long to pardon those unjustly imprisoned people, he just doesn't wanna? E: Flying-PCP posted:So just say they're rationalizing. The only thing I can guess is that you're arguing that they're 'lying to themselves' and that somehow that's a form of bad faith argument, but no. Bad faith refers to a willful deception. To be clear, I can't think of any actual argument against the substance of what you're saying. It does in fact look pretty fuckin bad in terms of Biden actually having any interest in helping people who need help, just based on my limited knowledge of what's going on. It's just the abuse of overused terms that's driving me nuts. fair enough
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Nov 4, 2021 01:50
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I think I'm starting to understand why McAuliffe's "Trump Bad" campaign may have come off as slightly hypocritical and insincere Not only did he invest in fascist Nazi-lover Glenn Youngkin's vulture equity group https://twitter.com/carterforva/status/1455800491175256068 https://twitter.com/carterforva/status/1455804728844165120 He was on Orange Hitler's payroll, loved hugging on Cheeto Benito, and toasted to the good intentions of Francisco Mango
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Nov 4, 2021 04:23
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Sarcastr0 posted:This seems quite wrong to me. The issue was not that he was too close to Trump. YMMV but in my opinion if your strategy is attacking someone on an issue like "being too close to Trump" you should probably not be close to Trump yourself if not closer, because only two conclusions follow from that, either (1) you are lying about the threat Trump poses since you're obviously fine with him in private or (2) you are telling the truth about the threat Trump poses and you're fine with it when it benefits you. Neither of these bode well. Kinda similar to how he couldn't effectively attack Younkgin for being an equity vampire because he was making a quick buck off of the evil poo poo Youngkin was doing too E: RBA Starblade posted:So what's Lee been up to lately Posting some interesting data about the election https://twitter.com/carterforva/status/1455857865818873858 https://twitter.com/carterforva/status/1455863612128567298 https://twitter.com/carterforva/status/1455867514601279497 oof VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 04:48 on Nov 4, 2021 |
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Nov 4, 2021 04:43
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Darkrenown posted:So he got a donation from Trump in 2009... when Trump was a dem? 2009 was also before 2016, which was when Trump became president - I believe when people campaign on being against Trump it's mainly to do with his presidency rather than his life in total, so it doesn't seem to be a huge red flag. And no, I don't think McAuliffe did a good job and I don't want to kiss and cuddle him, I just don't think a 2009 donation matters at all. Trump was an openly corrupt businessman who had been making very public racist and sexist comments for decades before 2009, including taking out ads advocating some black kids get executed for a crime they didn't commit. Democrats had other choices for governor: if I were going to center a campaign on "Trump=Hitler" I would simply not pick the guy I'd have to defend with "well trading friendship and support from Hitler was fine before 1925 when he was only saying racist stuff in public and not in a political campaign" But even if you give him a pass on that how do you explain toasting to Trump in 2017 when everyone was already calling him Cheeto Benito lol. I guess you can't because you just pretended not to notice that inconvenient detail.
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Nov 4, 2021 15:37
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Immigrants' rights group RAICES and others are pointing out the the parliamentarian who is using her power to block immigration reform was an INS prosecutor https://twitter.com/tomaskenn/status/1456242399043325952 quote:As someone who has worked to deport people, [MacDonough] cannot be trusted to rule objectively on immigration issues,” the Refugee and Immigrant Center for Education and Legal Services (RAICES) said last Thursday in a statement.
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Nov 4, 2021 15:57
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Darkrenown posted:I noticed it, but I was replying to the idea he was "on Trump's payroll" for taking a donation in 2009 or that this was a reasonable thing invalidate an anti-Trump stance. I don't actually need to reply to every part of your post just because I disagree with one part/tweet. If you say "It's Thursday and gravity doesn't exist" I'm going to focus on the gravity part and not the Thursday part. Or if you say "The Earth is round because apples are round" I could point out that apples being round doesn't prove the Earth is round while still agreeing that the Earth is round. I'd hoped that saying: Even if we're going to pretend to believe absurdities like Trump wasn't bad in 2009 before the fascism fairy sprinkled fascism dust on him right after McAuliffe took the check, and therefore taking his money wasn't cynical and doesn't make McAuliffe an insincere hypocrite to denounce Trump later when he needs to win an election, McAuliffe was still toasting Trump in 2017 so obviously ignorance of how bad Trump really is couldn't possibly be McAuliffe's excuse for cozying up to him back then because he was still opportunistically doing it when Trump was actually president. Can you give the debate club game a rest, this isn't high school, there are no judges, we don't have to pretend to be incapable of making observations that span time and space in order to isolate one moment in a context-free vacuum and drag the discussion into quibbling over piddly nonsense.
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Nov 4, 2021 16:08
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Nucleic Acids posted:It is totally appropriate that she has effective veto power over the congressional agenda. Whoever made the post about how we've brought back a modern version of the divine right of kings really hit the nail on the head. The morality of what the king does is beyond question because God put him there so it doesn't matter whether you think the king is good or bad to oppose him means opposing God. Likewise it doesn't matter whether the parliamentarian is doing good or bad, right or wrong, because someone made a rule to give her veto power over democracy so criticizing it means opposing the concept of rules and order. The bureaucratization of democracy. You can vote to change the names of individual politicians, but the real power is in the hands of unelected authoritarian bureaucrats who have been handed veto power over the elected government by tradition and who answer only to the 1%
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Nov 4, 2021 16:30
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Willa Rogers posted:This reminded me of that weird Andrew Sullivan piece about the little brown boy in the mideast who would cry tears of joy if Obama were elected: An 8 year old living in Pakistan's repressive military dictatorship should be swelling with hope around now because he instinctively knows on a deep spiritual level that no one with brown skin or a familiar name like Hussein or Musharraff could possibly be a bad guy!
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Nov 4, 2021 16:46
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Darkrenown posted:You seem to have real trouble with the idea someone could disagree with one of the tweets you posted. I'm not "debate clubbing" you, I think pulling up a 2009 donation from a man who was a dem at the time and was not yet known to be a "Cheeto benito" as you put it is completely pointless and doesn't invalidate an anti-Trump stance. Taking bribes from an openly criminal corrupt racist real estate mogul was bad and cynical in 2009 regardless of whether he had run for political office yet or not, and even if I agreed with you that it was only running for political office that made Trump bad it obviously didn't factor into McAuliffe's opportunistic calculus to cozy up to Trump when it benefited him because he was still doing it went Trump was president. Your argument makes zero sense and I'm still going to charitably give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it's just a fun contrarian intellectual exercise for you to think up technical absurdities you can use to defend the indefensible. Just take the smart boy award for thinking up a clever smokescreen argument that almost works, but since it only holds together if you aggressively ignore the evidence that your assertions about McAuliffe's motive can't possibly be correct, just save yourself the embarrassment and stop doubling down. Mcauliffe was still cozying up to Trump the politician in 2017. His horror at what a Nazi Trump is as a politician is patently insincere and opportunistic. Trying to draw a conjurer's circle around the year 2009 and claim that it wasn't insincere to take bribes from corrupt white supremacist oligarchs then as long as they haven't entered politics personally as a candidate instead of as a lobbyist makes no sense, especially in light of evidence from 2017 proving that McAuliffe obviously doesn't give a poo poo about the dumb distinction you're hanging your defense on since he loved Trump the politician too. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Nov 4, 2021 |
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Nov 4, 2021 17:57
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BougieBitch posted:Here's a question I don't think anyone has meaningfully addressed - how would the benefits of federal student loan forgiveness be distributed? You might be surprised to learn that the spread is every bit as weighted as the SALT removal - but probably not! The group with the most student loan debt is D.C., and those people have 0 value for both the state and federal party, so from a "we should only support policies that get votes" that's a pretty bad start! Out of actual states, the three highest are Ohio (15%), Georgia (15%), and Mississippi (14.6%). The Mississippi votes are functionally useless - there's no state party to speak of and the EC vote isn't going to flip. Georgia is a swing state, so those numbers look good, Ohio USED to be a swing state, but lately has been pretty far out of reach (8% in 2020). I'm just going to stop you right here: did you really just find data showing that two of the states that would benefit most from student loan reduction were critical swing states in 2020, 2016, and/or 2012 and write that off as worthless. And are you actually arguing Democrats should just openly announce they have no intentions of helping anyone in a state that didn't vote for them for president because that sounds like a bad strategy. Although I guess it's hardly a novel one, they seem to have a hard-on for leaving implementation of federal programs up to states so Dems can run on providing them to their states while counting on GOP governors to deny them to anyone living somewhere Dems don't have to give a poo poo about. If you are really jonesing so bad to make sure any student loan forgiveness doesn't help the chuds (and all the minorities) in Mississippi just require the governor to countersign any federal forgiveness bing bong simple. Maximum efficiency of doing as little to help as few people as possible achieved
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Nov 4, 2021 18:24
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Darkrenown posted:
lmao  Yeah Donald Trump is just a nice selfless guy who gives generously to politicians for nothing in return, and by coincidence gets generous subsidies for his businesses and effective legal immunity for his frauds and crimes. Good effort up til now but you flew too close to the sun Darkrenown posted:Out of interest, are all the dems Trump donated to on his payroll? I had a look, and: Hmm it's almost like all this outrage from Biden, Harris, et al is performative and red or blue behind the scenes the only color that matters to them is green.
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Nov 4, 2021 18:47
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