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Chakan
Mar 30, 2011
Hey why is everything so expensive now?

I stopped playing in 2013-ish and now even draft jank is like $2, if you're lucky. I get that the format is moving faster and there's more people playing now, but it's nutso to be paying 60 for sensei's top. I'm sure the answer is "yes" but are people really paying $500+ for their casual commander decks? Well, at least people are playing talismans now. That's all, thanks for listening to Old Man Yells At Clouds.

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Chakan
Mar 30, 2011

Macdeo Lurjtux posted:

What am I missing? All three of the listed cards work fine with Gate?

Gate destroys artifacts, but Sheldon must have read that it destroys enchantments.

Chakan
Mar 30, 2011
For everyone who can't access the website:



e: Tergrid seems like a bully deck, but I haven't played against it. Is it that bad they were thinking about banning it? I'm also kinda surprised that Oracle wasn't banned because I feel like the cEDH players have been complaining that it flattens things, but that may be my imagination.

Chakan fucked around with this message at 17:12 on Feb 7, 2022

Chakan
Mar 30, 2011

fadam posted:

Thanks and god bless.

It's a safe, easy wincon, but it's not super far out of line with the other good wincons and when the format is healthy with it in it, who cares.

Tegrid is the worst kind of card where it's not particularly good but it's also not particularly fun. I don't think it should get banned but I don't care if they do lol

That all seems reasonable. I was looking over the ban list and was kinda surprised that Braids Cabal Minion is still on there. Seems like Tergrid is along the same lines.


Toshimo posted:

What kind of immense rear end in a top hat do you need to be to not comprehend that, especially during a global pandemic full of in-person restrictions, that the majority of play is not being done at your LGS with your close group of pals? "Strong Social Contract" can eat my entire rear end.

Fire Sheldon. Preferably into the sun.

Yeah it's baffling to say "we're the people who write the rules, but if you just put in the work to mould your group right, there's no problems". I think they're stretching the bounds of what's possible because the format is casual. I wouldn't be surprised if they broke it into two, with a cEDH banlist and a casual banlist.

Chakan
Mar 30, 2011

Framboise posted:

cEDH is EDH. It follows all the same rules and the same banlist. The only difference is that it's got an implied understanding of expectations in the game experience among the players at the table.

For sure, I don't mean to imply otherwise. But when the people making the banlist have to keep leaning on rule 0 and the social contract, it makes me wonder if it would be better for everyone if there was an explicit competitive edh format. If I had the money, I would play cEDH, but as it stands the banlist is a bit of a mess because some cards (Primeval Titan comes to mind) might be borderline playable in cEDH but aren't fun in low power tables (because everyone will recurr/clone it). I also think it's really funny there's cards banned because they cost too much, considering what isn't on that list nowadays.

Toph Bei Fong posted:

Magic's transition from D&D to WoD continues in more ways than going from Forgotten Realms to Werewolves and Vampires...

lol

Chakan
Mar 30, 2011

Framboise posted:

I don't really give a poo poo what someone else thinks about the cards I play or the mat I use-- hell, I'm tempted to sell some of those mats, someone else can use them-- it's just that Seb's art bums me out on a personal level right now, probably even more so than Nielsen's.

Just put them in storage and see how you feel in 6 months or whatever.

Dizz posted:

Name them please. I haven't updated my decklist yet since i've been swapping cards out.

Here's a list of the Kaldheim zombies, they're talking about Draugr Necromancer and Narfi, Betrayer King specifically. Going through the others you mentioned:

Graveborn Muse - staples a phyrexian arena to each of your zombies, if it kills you, then hats off to the aggro player that did the first 28 damage. Great card, 4 mana is a fair bit so be aware of that.
Soulless One - Fun, not good.
Noxious Ghoul - cleans up the board and clears the way for you to just swing out 1-2 people that turn. Expensive, but there are lots of little tricks that can really punish people for leaving him "alive"
Gempalm Polluter - more cycling never hurts, and returning it to hand then re-cycling it can often mean opponents lose 20 life in one turn. It only hits one person though and can draw a lot of heat because of that.
Plague Belcher - zombie aristocrats are pretty solid but require a little too much setup for a lot of situations. When it works, you're sacrificing everything to phyrexian altar then casting living death to win. When it doesn't, you're dropping a 5/4 and watching it sit there for 4 turns doing nothing.

Chakan
Mar 30, 2011
Yeah, it seems a little backwards to allow proxies on cards under $50 but not above $50. I can't puzzle it out. I get banning the cedh commanders so people are trying their own brews to make weaker commanders work and you have a unique meta, especially if the group follows/plays cedh writ large, but it feels roundabout - why not just make your own full ban list if you're bored of Oracle or Underworld/Freeze? I guess maybe they're not bored of particular wincons, just the commanders?

Chakan
Mar 30, 2011
Mono artifacts needed to be untapped to have their effect, like howling mine and winter orb. After a few years they changed it and got rid of the “mono” type, updated the text on the cards to denote they needed to be untapped and never looked back.

Chakan
Mar 30, 2011
got my 98 mountain ashling deck perfectly.

https://twitter.com/edhrec/status/1509889916980764680

Chakan
Mar 30, 2011

Bust Rodd posted:

I’m just saying from my experiment with group hug decks in college was just me being like “ok! Everyone ready to have fun! Temple Bell, Rights of Flourishing, here ya go!” and my friend Kevin being like “oh wow thanks man! Draw 3 cards, play 2 lands… combo kill the table a turn early while all your shields are down?”

This is back in 2012-2013 when cEDH functionally didn’t exist and every table was 2 people playing battlecruiser and 2 people jamming Mana Crypt into Food Chain.

I tried to play edh on MTGO back then and you would have three people playing blind seer or kodama of the south tree or whatever, and one guy playing arcum daggson turn 3 time stretch. It was hilarious that the second group never seemed to get tired of playing non-games against people who each had cast exactly one spell when the game ended, often darksteel ingot.

Chakan
Mar 30, 2011

Azza Bamboo posted:

it's a nice idea but cash is one of my least abundant resources IRL

You can make a functioning 5-color deck that runs on basics. You’re sacrificing raw power when you do, but unless the table is full of sharks you can hold your own just fine. Be sure to keep it in mind when choosing your spells though.

Chakan
Mar 30, 2011

fadam posted:

If I Greasefang that back, hit a player, exile a yard with two creatures in it, reanimate one, then find a way to put the ship back in my yard, if I reanimate it again next turn and connect can I bring a creature from the first exile back?

Nope, sorry. Those were exiled with a "different" card.

If it worked like Dauthi Voidwalker you could do that, however.

Chakan
Mar 30, 2011
Would the format be better if all 2 and below mana rocks were cut? Just a general question.
I think it would be fun to see cedh adapt to a generally slower table, but I don’t know it would actually improve things once the dust settled. I think the big gain in more casual decks would be opening up a few deck slots.

Chakan
Mar 30, 2011

Toshimo posted:

No. 2 mana rocks are where the game should be. Would I nuke the 0-mana rocks? Yeah. Absolutely. But stigmatizing 2-mana rocks is some truly demented poo poo.

Yeah, 0 and 1 mana rocks are what I would ban if I could, I was just going off the above. I still think the signets are among the best designed cards in mtg.

Heath posted:

I do hate that every time I start building a deck I basically need to block out 3-6 cards that are in every single deck (Sol Ring, Arcane Signet, etc.)

I have a lot more fun when I work to cut out specific staples from decks, but mana rocks are harder than anything else to shave. Not running sol ring is flat out wrong in 99% of decks, which is kinda hosed.

Chakan
Mar 30, 2011

Aranan posted:

I really should make another Zur deck and just use it as Necropotence in the command zone. Fuckin' love Necropotence.

I have seen a comedy "Voltron" Zur deck before. It was bad, but it was at least a different take.

My how the times have changed, lol.

Batterypowered7 posted:



Wasn't sure if Post Malone would still interact with Joe after the IHYD split, but I guess that answers that.

I’m not familiar, what happened?

Chakan
Mar 30, 2011
I run vensers spellbook and thought vessel and reliquary tower and howling mine and font of mythos in my psychosis crawler hidden commander deck and I win 100% of my games by using blue suns zenith to draw 40 anyway.

(psychosis crawler is actually pretty fun, but it’s 3 mana too expensive to be playable for a “nice to have” efffect, unfortunately. Plus, every card takes up a slot!)

Chakan
Mar 30, 2011
The only thing that confuses me about the write-up is the conclusion about people choosing not to play playtest cards when available. There's only a couple reasons to play steam vents over volcanic island and I don't know that any of those reasons see play in EDH. Am I missing something? I suspect those players decided to stick with their own cards so they didn't have to deal with getting the proxies and all that, but maybe is so smooth that I'm off track. I will also confess that mana crypt is too rich for my blood and it saw play in 68 of the decks so maybe this tourney group isn't dollar restricted, but I would never be able to play at those tables.

Chakan
Mar 30, 2011
The printing of new braids has me thinking about old braids, and how it’s still banned in commander. I don’t think it should be, and the unbanning of worldfire had me hopeful it would be removed, but maybe I don’t understand how good it would be as a stax deck?

Chakan
Mar 30, 2011

fadam posted:

Flash was before my time, was it even a casual card at all?

No, nobody playing flash was doing anything less than a protean hulk combo that I was ever aware of. In part because flash was not cheap.

Chakan
Mar 30, 2011

big cummers ONLY posted:

This is an excellent reason, lol. I guess it's more elegant than an arbitrary life cap or something

Yeah, when I came back a while ago to find that nobody was talking about Uril as a terror, I knew the format had matured a lot since I left.

Chakan
Mar 30, 2011
Would love to have a chat with the guy who goes to no-banlist cedh night with his sick recurring nightmare deck.

Admittedly, I want that card unbanned because the art is fun.

Chakan
Mar 30, 2011
When I first got into edh on MTGO there were a couple players who would shark tables with an Arcum Daggson deck that ran as many mana rocks and time walks as they could and just go off on turn 3-4 to chain several extra turn spells and then assemble some goofy combo to actually win. They were annoying because everyone else was playing 2011 “excruciator has fun art so it’s in my deck” lists. I took to holding up a counterspell in my Chisei deck if I had one and they almost always scooped if you countered their grim monolith or whatever.

So it’s pretty fun to see that style of deck do really well and be refined with a decade of new cards. Clearly takes a lot of political knowledge and skill to pilot as well.

Chakan
Mar 30, 2011

Aranan posted:

There are two ways to learn: repetition and trauma.

Or I guess just not learning and repeating the same activity over and over again.

Yeah, part of what was so funny about coming back was my paper group was full of interaction, it was just that our bombs were not good at ending games. Someone would drop Vorinclex (pre-ban) and it would get Chill to the Bone’d immediately. Tombstone Stairwell on the 2/2 beats strat was legit, etc. Seeing the game-enders now is wild even for more casual decks. I think I still have my Sek’kuar Deathkeeper list online and it would be massively improved by craterhoof.

Chakan
Mar 30, 2011

The Shortest Path posted:

I've done that a couple times and it was okay but you really have to work out the balance and which decks go where correctly or it's just a onesided shitshow

I did this once where one of the opposing players was running Heartless Hidetsugu as their commander and tried their damndest to activate him. I killed Hidetsugu 6-7 times with spot removal before the game ended. For those who don't know, Hidetsugu affects each player, so if he ever activated then the match would be a draw.

Chakan
Mar 30, 2011
In response to the backlash against the blockchain decision they announced they were pausing the implementation for the time being and are putting together an advisory group comprised of community members. This was last december and the group was formed in may-june I think. I checked a while ago and they had only done one meeting & the agenda was basically to get to know each-other.

There were no other announcements about the blockchain on the KS website that I could find, so I searched the forums and twitter of the blockchain itself and there were only a few references on the forum to how poorly the announcement was received. Except the twitter had advertised they were working with KS in April I think. So I don’t think there’s still plans to go forward at KS, but I’m still not giving them money right now.

Chakan
Mar 30, 2011

Framboise posted:

Unless I want it bad enough. Where is my coin flip secret lair commander deck, WotC?

Is that still not out yet? When did it go up?

Chakan
Mar 30, 2011
I think that’s a decent argument for banning rhystic, as it gives outsized resources for one player. I don’t know that I want it banned, but it’s common enough that you might convince me it should go to free up deck slots.

I also think it was kinda funny in the interview with Sheldon that the Hullbreacher ban wasn’t really on the table till it started to see lots of play outside powerful tables.

Chakan
Mar 30, 2011

Batterypowered7 posted:

They 100000% don't endorse proxies.

When the Walking Dead Secret Lair was announced, people were complaining on Sheldon's Facebook page because supply was limited and they wouldn't be banned in Commander. I asked if they'd just let those cards be proxied and received a very firm no.

Part of me feels like it's to stay in Wizard's good graces, but part of me feels like it's because Sheldon can probably afford any cards he wants so he doesn't care if others can't afford them.

In the interview with the professor, Sheldon makes a point of saying the RC doesn't have a stance on proxies. It's not hard to read between the lines that he personally is strongly opposed to them but is probably losing that fight behind the scenes, but he does stress that the RC does not ban or approve proxies - it's a discussion for your local play group.

I also squirmed in my chair when prof asked about whether wotc had paid Sheldon and he responded that it was a personal matter. I don't know if that's just people not liking to talk about money or what, but it was kind of upsetting.

Chakan
Mar 30, 2011

Heath posted:

I would like to hear more about Bad Omnath

I spent a good deal of yesterday thinking about what number people would assign various precons and what a “real 4” and a “real 1” would look like. I’m pretty sure a 1 would have 70 basic lands and as many 4-cost 1/1 creatures with progenitus at the helm and no way to produce black mana or something. I just can’t figure out how someone could make a 1 unintentionally.

Chakan
Mar 30, 2011

Framboise posted:

I can't wait until other sites hop on the bandwagon of using better decklist formats. It's such a pain trying to sift through what decks do when half the cards are all just lumped into a "lol fuckin whatever" category, without showing mana costs or anything like that without having to hover over the name.

It is a pet peeve of mine when there’s a distinction between “creatures” and “spells”. Almost every creature printed in MTG history is a spell, it’s a common thing to have to teach newbies specifically, and yet we’re lumping artifacts in with instants but creatures have their own distinct category that suggests they are immune to counterspell!

Nobody reading it is going to actually get confused, I know it’s silly, but it could all be resolved by splitting out noncreature spells - something they should do anyway.

Chakan
Mar 30, 2011

MasterBuilder posted:

That gameplan was my first thought and that was before I knew that lethal vapors was a card. Is it the combo that you don't like? Because I can't imagine it's good or even that easy to pull off. And really is it any worse than other storm or instant win card/combo?

It’s worse because it still loses to Thassas Oracle and similar, which also makes it worse in the way you’re talking about. If two other players have alternate wincons then there’s no way you can win unless they both lose those wincons AND the fourth player (who presumably wins through damage or similar) now cannot win no matter what.

Chakan
Mar 30, 2011
I actually really like Taurean Mauler in tribal decks. It’s a fun and flirty way to have an 8/8 on t4, it generates counters if you care about that, lots of good times with tauren mauler.

Chakan
Mar 30, 2011

Railing Kill posted:

I played with someone a couple weeks ago who had a fun idea for his GB reanimator deck (I'm not sure if it's his idea, per se, but it was the first I had seen it). He had a block of ~20 reanimation targets in his 99. He had ~40 creatures sleeved up though, so every time he plays the deck he shuffled up the creature block and adds 20 at random. It seemed like a fun way to add variability to a deck archetype that can get very linear, or you could deliberately pick different sets of creatures to tune the power level.

I built mono-black with something like 120 nonland cards in a few packages that I would swap out whenever I felt like, and I had 5-6 commanders sleeved up to pick from at random. This was in 2011 or so and it was really fun to play because the commanders were so different (shirei, endrek sahr, skithiryx).

Chakan
Mar 30, 2011
I believe the deck should run insurrection, but I feel that way about most decks so, whatever.

Chakan
Mar 30, 2011

Nehru the Damaja posted:

Gilded Drake is 270 United States Dollars

That’s hosed up.

Chakan
Mar 30, 2011

Johnny Truant posted:

wait what, aren't they basics?

Wastes does not have a land type, unless I'm mistaken.

Chakan
Mar 30, 2011

DontMockMySmock posted:

ChatGPT "understands" the "gist" of gently caress-all, which is evident in how basically every sentence it says about Winota has dumb mistakes that even the most idiot magic player wouldn't make. Remember that it is just cutting up, recombining, and regurgitating text that it got from scouring the internet, which would presumably include tons of people talking about Winota in a way that isn't loving stupid. In light of that, it's kind of amazing how much it fucks up.

Thank you for writing this so I don’t have to.

Chakan
Mar 30, 2011

Raenir Salazar posted:

It is REALLY funny though whenever my friends cast a "go through the top cards of your library until you find a instant or sorcery and then shuffle them into your library" and I just reveal my entire deck because I have none.

A copy of patriarch’s bidding is fun as well, just something to consider.

Chakan
Mar 30, 2011

Johnny Truant posted:

only non-creature spell in my Sliver deck is Flying Crane Technique, because :getin:

That is also fun, I enjoy having a curveball like that, especially since the last sliver you add is usually not too exciting.

Raenir Salazar posted:

God I can't win with my group sometimes.

It’s tough when your group is like that, but some people (me) just like to complain and cajole friends. If you don’t let it bother you, and try to focus on the fun, you’ll have a better time and often others will lighten up.

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Chakan
Mar 30, 2011

Fajita Queen posted:

Phyrexian Arena is an awful card nowadays lol

This pains me to admit.

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