US CE Spring 2022: I'm convinced it's useless which is why I argue about it all day every day

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > US CE Spring 2022: I'm convinced it's useless which is why I argue about it all day every day

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Srice: Sep 11, 2011

Bishyaler posted:

"We can't send people relief because it might be stolen from the mailbox." is the laziest justification for austerity I've ever heard. They're not even bothering to hide that they don't give a poo poo that they caused a gas panic and drove up the price of nearly every product. At this rate they'll be lucky if they only lose the midterms in a landslide instead of triggering an insurrection.

It also ignores the fact that they *have* given people money several times over the past few years in a way that mostly worked fine (there were hiccups but overall it went fairly well and was an extremely popular action!), yet somehow that's too complicated this time around?

(Of course the obvious solution is to just send people cold hard cash into their accounts instead of making it more complicated with cards)

# ¿ Mar 21, 2022 17:37

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# ¿ May 13, 2024 20:23

Srice: Sep 11, 2011

Somehow, complicated logistics didn't stop the stimulus payments from going out so I can't say I believe them when they call this proposal too complicated to carry out.

e: Hopefully a reporter is able to make Psaki say something embarrassing about it because that's the best way to get things done these days.

Srice fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Mar 21, 2022

# ¿ Mar 21, 2022 18:10

Srice: Sep 11, 2011

Bishyaler posted:

Speaking of war, it's wild how the Geneva Convention considers that targeting civilians is a war crime but you can engage in economic warfare and starve them to death, no harm no foul.

22.8 million Afghans are facing food insecurity because of Biden's sanctions. Unless those sanctions are soon reversed, it is estimated that more people will die from the economic impact of sanctions over the next year than the number who died in 20 years of war.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/columnist/2022/03/10/biden-sanctions-afghanistan-humanitarian-crisis/6918023001/

It's awful stuff and the way it gets covered by most of the media never truly conveys how grim it is. Outside of rare circumstances sanctions are a form of violence and it's rarely treated that way (for plenty of obvious reasons, unfortunately).

# ¿ Mar 22, 2022 15:04

Srice: Sep 11, 2011

bobua posted:

What's the alternative to sanctions? I've always understood it as pretty much sabre rattling, then sanctions, then bombs. Is the argument just for different sanctions, skipping sanctions, or other?

As a general rule outside of some rare exceptions it's best to consider sanctions a form of violence.

Since heck, look at what's going on in Afghanistan right now. A lot of people are gonna die as a result of those sanctions. They might not be dying from bombs or bullets but it's still going to be a lot of preventable deaths.

Srice fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Mar 23, 2022

# ¿ Mar 23, 2022 00:00

Srice: Sep 11, 2011

Archonex posted:

Seeing the way folks in this forum turned on him for calling his colleagues out on their two faced bullshit was an eye opener, that's for sure.

I think it was Friendbot who went from campaigning for him to wholesale buying the lies that were being sold all because Carter was openly hostile (to where the public could see it, heaven forbid!) to people who had no intention whatsoever of following through on their promises or representing the best interests of their constituent voters. All while claiming that he alienated support by...yelling at his opposition and demanding that those around him worked for the common good instead of their own personal interests? Fuckin' terrifying stuff for a certain type of person, i'm sure.

Like, sometimes it's good to be a dick. And sometimes it makes you really loving dumb to be mad at someone being a dick to someone else if the person being harangued has openly and callously made it clear that they weren't going to do the right thing no matter what. It's just a shame that Carter got hosed for it.

I should also point out that the people mad because Carter would be a dick towards those that deserved it are the exact reason why centrists, corporatists, and right wingers all get away with weaponizing wagging the finger about decorum and unity at anyone to the left of them while simultaneously betraying the values their voters put them in office over.

Ultimately, if everything is mandated to be nice and polite then no one can see what the real character of people are. Which makes it much easier to ratfuck someone behind closed doors and not have any hints of it come out until after the damage is irreversible.

Edit: Hell, this goes beyond Carter and into politics at large. Just take a recent example: The republican/s that were trying to snobbishly build up support for Putin by claiming that the Ukrainian president wasn't wearing a suit (Basically: "He's so unprofessional! The horror! This man isn't looking like he lives the high life while representing the resistance forces of Ukraine!" only in decorous terms.) during a public address were pulling the same poo poo. Though thankfully it seems that no one bought that nonsense that time.

Exactly. Way I see it, if a group of people supposedly want to pass a bill that would help people, one person puts it up to a vote in a rude way and then many of those folks who previously voiced support voted no?

They never wanted that bill passed to begin with. If they really wanted to make it happen they would suck it up and tolerate someone violating :decorum:

for the sake of improving the lives of many.

# ¿ Mar 23, 2022 22:29

Srice: Sep 11, 2011

RBA Starblade posted:

The lesson to learn from Lee Carter is that if you don't play the game right, even if the rules are stupid, you lose.

On the flip side if you have a goal in mind that the rules won't allow, then you can't win by playing by the rules either.

# ¿ Mar 24, 2022 00:09

Srice: Sep 11, 2011

some plague rats posted:

This would be a pretty wild assumption that no one apart from you seems to be making?

Sure, the point of sanctions is to put pressure on the government, but starving the people who actually live there is the inevitable effect and sanctions have been shown time and again to be completely ineffective at actually pressuring their leaders

In light of Madeleine Albright dying I think it's good to remember that in the past she fully acknowledged that sanctions on Iraq killed hundreds of thousands and said it was worth it.

# ¿ Mar 24, 2022 23:47

Srice: Sep 11, 2011

Gumball Gumption posted:

I honestly think to the average American the difference really is that she said it was a hard choice but worth it. If she had said "gently caress them kids" we would know it was a genocide but we just can't see into her heart so we need to give her the benefit of the doubt.

Yeah absolutely. A lot of people (and very importantly, a lot of the media) really buy into the narrative of tough people making tough decisions.

# ¿ Mar 25, 2022 00:29

Srice: Sep 11, 2011

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

Just in time for 4/20 month, Congress is doing a weed week today and next week.

- They are voting on a bipartisan banking reform bill to allow banks to do business with legal marijuana retailers without violating money laundering laws.
- They are voting on a legalization bill that is expected to fail to overcome the filibuster as well.

https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/1507085315953078273

I would love for this to pass though I feel like considering Biden's stance on weed they might need a veto-proof majority to get it out there?

Would be happy to be wrong about that though!

# ¿ Mar 25, 2022 16:16

Srice: Sep 11, 2011

haveblue posted:

I don't think it's possible for the Senate to vote in a way that beats a filibuster (60) but doesn't beat a veto override (67). Either you attract all 50 republicans or zero of them. There is no issue that will attract more than 10 but fewer than 17, the Senate just doesn't work like that any more

Not saying the bill will definitely pass, but I don't think we'll be in a situation where Biden's veto makes the difference

Yea it'd definitely be a weird outlier for sure in that scenario but in light of how weird everything is all the time, at this point nothing would surprise me, y'know? I do agree it's very unlikely.

Lib and let die posted:

I'm probably courting the lines of "bring an original topic to discuss" with this one, but do we really want to start down the rabbit hole of what Biden said vs what he's delivered again?

Yea this is absolutely a matter where I'd only believe him when he takes an action on it.

# ¿ Mar 25, 2022 16:27

Srice: Sep 11, 2011

DarkCrawler posted:

I assume the anti-sanctioneers here utterly condemn say, the BDS movement and those who support it for seeking to inflict horrible suffering on Israelis and Israeli settlers in particular?

Tell you what, if BDS somehow kills a few hundred thousand Israelis I'll condemn it for sure.

# ¿ Mar 26, 2022 01:49

Srice: Sep 11, 2011

Papercut posted:

Have the Russian sanctions killed a few hundred thousand Russians?

Depends on if we live in a world where sanctions immediately kill people right after being enacted, I suppose!

# ¿ Mar 26, 2022 01:56

Srice: Sep 11, 2011

Papercut posted:

Wait, I thought you were saying you support BDS because it has not yet killed a few hundred thousand people. But now you're saying we should only judge sanctions based on what they've done so far? So yes you do support the Russia sanctions?

I was being flippant about those BDS posts because

Terminal autist posted:

This is always the dumbest take, BDS isn't a polity there is no parity in the comparison.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ¿ Mar 26, 2022 02:07

Srice: Sep 11, 2011

Harold Fjord posted:

I'm very anti violence and I think what happened ~~there~~ at the Oscars was perfectly acceptable

also it's a good distraction from talking about CODA so heck in that regard I'm glad of it.

# ¿ Mar 28, 2022 15:40

Srice: Sep 11, 2011

Willa Rogers posted:

the best future-take I've seen in the wild was "Why hasn't Will Smith been this angry at Russia?" which, honestly, will likely cross from parody to reality if it hasn't already.

I've already been seeing deranged takes by blue checkmarks trying to compare Will Smith to Putin so I am sure it is just a matter of time before the NYT or something unleashes an insanely bad thinkpiece.

# ¿ Mar 28, 2022 15:48

Srice: Sep 11, 2011

Mellow Seas posted:

Not to get too but we should also keep in mind that the Oscars are a failing enterprise that is always on the hunt for viral moments, and as men in their 50s Rock and Smith's careers are in constant danger of decline and they can always use some juice themselves (especially Rock). The entire thing could've been a publicity stunt.

Can't speak for Chris Rock's career but everyone was expecting Will Smith to win best actor and he was the favorite going into it by a pretty significant margin.

Certainly not impossible that it was a stunt but for now I'm inclined to believe it wasn't.

Harold Fjord posted:

The awards are not a roast. Mocking medical conditions is lovely. Your fat friends see how you talk about Donald Trump.

Yea unless I know the person being mocked is cool with the joke that crap always comes off as uncomfortable as hell to me.

# ¿ Mar 28, 2022 16:46

Srice: Sep 11, 2011

ReidRansom posted:

Stop caring what dipshit celebrities do at their dumb Hollywood circlejerk.

Never! I'll care about the Oscars each year and you can't stop me.

# ¿ Mar 28, 2022 18:05

Srice: Sep 11, 2011

https://twitter.com/CoreyRobin/status/1508602390240501769

What really sticks out to me here is that ICE is now getting a lot more funding. Awful as all hell.

(To say nothing of how there's rhetoric about deficit reduction going on too)

# ¿ Mar 29, 2022 15:36

Srice: Sep 11, 2011

FlamingLiberal posted:

Personally I think DeSantis is way more dangerous than Trump

He mostly avoids personally getting involved in controversial issues and leaves it to underlings. But he�s been able to accomplish most of his goals here in FL. The courts have blocked some of it, but a lot of it succeeded.

Also he's able to conduct himself in public in a way that is acceptable to people whose main objection to Trump was his aesthetics. That's another factor that definitely shouldn't be underestimated.

# ¿ Mar 30, 2022 13:15

Srice: Sep 11, 2011

Fame Douglas posted:

Hunter Biden conspiracy theories are definitely very relevant and should be discussed at length to continue making this thread as much of a great read as it has been.

It is, if nothing else, a current event because of that new article.

# ¿ Mar 31, 2022 23:28

Srice: Sep 11, 2011

Fame Douglas posted:

Also, Hunter Biden being the President of the US means this particular piece of Russian propaganda is highly relevant.

Dunno what you're getting at but if you're displeased by this current event being discussed maybe you should bring up a different current event and see if folks bite on that one! Be the change you want to see.

# ¿ Mar 31, 2022 23:38

Srice: Sep 11, 2011

Fame Douglas posted:

I'm not displeased at all, I think page after page of Hunter Biden discussion is great, actually and really highlights the debating prowess of posters here and the caliber of discussion to be expected.

Glad we're both happy about things today then, cheers :cheerdoge:

# ¿ Mar 31, 2022 23:43

Srice: Sep 11, 2011

Ghost Leviathan posted:

Almost certainly going to be something about making those lazy spoiled millennials get off their asses and get back to work for those struggling small business owners.

Yeah if we're being told that work from home needs to end for the sake of the economy despite the rising gas prices (and rising everything prices, really), then it doesn't feel like too much of a stretch to picture the rhetoric about how those millennials just need to work harder to get themselves out of debt.

# ¿ Apr 1, 2022 12:18

Srice: Sep 11, 2011

Heck Yes! Loam! posted:

The answer is to extend the payment moratorium indefinitely and make the GOP the ones to start them back up. Tell everyone that you can get a loan for school, and never pay it back unless the republicans make you. Promise that with a democrat in office they will remain suspended indefinitely.

Since it's inevitable that republicans will eventually be back in power at some point I would rather have the dems remove the guillotine over my head instead of being told by them that the lever will only be pulled if someone else is in charge.

# ¿ Apr 1, 2022 14:38

Srice: Sep 11, 2011

Anecdotally the store-brand eggs at my local grocery store were 99 cents for a dozen a year or so ago and now they're like $2.99. I've definitely been noticing some wild fluctuations in local grocery prices compared to a year ago. Like the oats I used to get have gone up from $3 to $6 so I guess I'm just buying the generic store brand for $3 instead!

# ¿ Apr 3, 2022 20:41

Srice: Sep 11, 2011

Willa Rogers posted:

The Democratic hit parade is rolling out its tried & true again:

You'd think they'd have ditched the "Don't give them the keys to the car or they'll drive it in a ditch" metaphor that Tim Kaine propagated before the party's record midterm losses of 2010.

It sure leads me to believe that a lot of dems have learned absolutely nothing from the Virginia election.

# ¿ Apr 4, 2022 15:33

Srice: Sep 11, 2011

Willa Rogers posted:

But it's as if the Dems have told themselves they'll never win against DeSantis, so why try? It echoes their default pre-emptive losses across the country in which they let seats go entirely unchallenged by Republicans.

This part has always been particularly galling to me since yeah, there are plenty of counties where a dem challenger has almost no hope at all. But by constantly going without a challenger it's just conditioning voters in those areas to accept it's always gonna be a seat held by the gop. I get that it's not a particularly appealing prospect to be the sacrificial lamb for one of those elections but it comes off as shooting themselves in the foot for the long term if they're not even gonna *try*.

# ¿ Apr 9, 2022 15:07

Srice: Sep 11, 2011

Willa Rogers posted:

A visual representing the annual inflation rates for various items factoring the March info:

Yeesh. Not that I haven't been feeling the increase in grocery prices since almost everything I regularly buy has become more expensive, but I guess I picked a good year to go vegan considering that jump in meat, fish & eggs!

# ¿ Apr 12, 2022 16:11

Srice: Sep 11, 2011

It's a slow Easter Sunday and it doesn't seem like there's much in the way of pressing Current Events to talk about so heck,

# ¿ Apr 17, 2022 22:37

Srice: Sep 11, 2011

WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:

Nothing to talk about?! What are you talking about dude? It's about to be the 147th anniversary of the breakup of the whiskey ring.

And I'll be ready to talk about it properly on the exact day :grin:

# ¿ Apr 17, 2022 22:52

Srice: Sep 11, 2011

Discendo Vox posted:

"It's a slow sunday" if you have no sources of information other than your personal twitter feed and the forums. Literally open any newspaper and there are things actually happening in the world that are more relevant than the fifteenth autocratic fantasy fanfiction festival. Off the top of my head,

A hit piece was deployed in Politico with the backing of the food industry to reorganize the FDA. This is a really loving big deal, and a bunch of senators from both parties are making noise about restructuring the agency (or even splitting part of it off) before the end of the year.

The Washington Post employee union released a report alleging, among other things, a systematic failure to protect minority employees.

Puerto Rico(perhaps you have forgotten them) has just formally exited bankruptcy....and there is now a massive, unexplained power outage affecting large parts of the island, as its electric utility enters separate bankruptcy negotiations.

There have been multiple mass shootings over the weekend in South Carolina.

I think there was a single post about the SC shootings. Otherwise, none of the above was discussed, because the people who want to discuss things that are actually happening correctly view this as the thread where toxic assholes promote their balkanization fantasies. People post about other stories and it is immediately drowned out by the thousandth iteration of the same conflict-seeking bullshit.

Was this passive aggressive preamble really needed when you could have just linked some current events you wanted to talk about in the first place? What's the deal?

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ¿ Apr 17, 2022 23:27

Srice: Sep 11, 2011

Discendo Vox posted:

It's necessary because

I'm afraid I just don't get how being passive aggressive over how folks aren't discussing the exact stuff you want discussed fixes that!

# ¿ Apr 17, 2022 23:43

Srice: Sep 11, 2011

Discendo Vox posted:

Good thing I wasn't asking for folks to discuss the "exact stuff I want", so much as literally any actual current events, as opposed to broad ideology and hypotheticals about US balkanization!

Okay. How does being passive aggressive towards folks get that done? In your post with all those links you insinuated that I don't read the news (Which to be clear, is a pretty rude thing to say towards anyone in a subforum dedicated to politics. Anyone who cares enough to discuss politics that they post about it in a dead gay forum no doubt reads the news to some degree!) so of course I'm gonna focus on that insult instead of the stuff you linked and that seems to make the problem worse, y'know?

# ¿ Apr 18, 2022 00:06

Srice: Sep 11, 2011

Ages ago as part of a political science course I was taking in college (around 2006, I wanna say?) I went to a townhall thing with the local city council candidates. One of the two questions asked that really made an impression on me was that some of them were asked about the prices of some common household things and seeing how badly some of them fumbled such simple questions was very illuminating.

The other question that made an impression on me was whether or not it should be illegal to discriminate against gay people and because this happened at a time before most dems were cool with gay people, the only person who outright said that such discrimination should be illegal was a guy who was openly gay. He did wind up winning one of the city council seats though so hey good on him.

# ¿ Apr 18, 2022 13:36

Srice: Sep 11, 2011

Meatball posted:

They're falling into the trap Obama did and think the Republicans are honest actors that respond to reality.

They will keep title 42 and the Republicans will act like it's repealed and say "Joe Biden is letting illegals stream over the border!". Which is the same thing they'd do if he repealed it.

They're pissing off their voters in another losing gambit to appease Republicans.

Title 42 being kept after all this would be the dumbest possible outcome so that's what I expect at this point. I would love to be wrong but I just get the sense that this is one of those delays that's gonna keep kicking the can down the road, satisfying nobody.

# ¿ Apr 20, 2022 12:14

Srice: Sep 11, 2011

Willa Rogers posted:

So many great bits in that story:

WE'RE NOT REPUBLICANS has worked so well to date that they're planning on using it as an electoral strategy for the midterms.

Psaki saying that at a Pod Save America event of all things feels like an anecdote someone would make up, as a joke.

# ¿ Apr 22, 2022 16:34

Srice: Sep 11, 2011

Heck Yes! Loam! posted:

https://twitter.com/mckaycoppins/status/1517992896188006400

The democratic state parties are pretty awful, but this is just asinine.

I get that outside of a miracle it'd be a bloodbath out there for a dem candidate and sometimes you just can't find a warm body to put on the ballot but jesus loving christ that's an awful move.

Really wish they did nothing instead of this!

# ¿ Apr 24, 2022 01:21

Srice: Sep 11, 2011

BetterToRuleInHell posted:

I'm honestly not trying to purposely doompost but under what scenario could Biden possibly win re-election against anyone?

Every day that goes by it seems like he upsets more groups that supported him, more issues arise that will negatively affect him, more polling comes out showing him underwater with different polling bases, and with the obvious rear end whipping House Dems are going to get this year, we are not going to get a single piece of genuine progressive legislation for the next two years. Hell, Pelosi was going to ensure that anyways.

It's not doomposting to acknowledge the writing on the wall.

E: and from there work on change you can achieve on local levels that impact your community and push your way up

I can imagine him barely crawling to re-election if only because of the incumbent advantage. I'm starting to wonder if the media narrative post-midterms (assuming dems lose the house) will be something like: Biden now has to compromise instead of enacting his radical left agenda. And then that somehow helps his approval ratings despite being an absurd statement on its face.

But heck, two years is a long time and anything can happen.

# ¿ Apr 25, 2022 18:02

Srice: Sep 11, 2011

A real good way to sell people without student loans on debt forgiveness would be to bundle it with another round of stimulus checks. That way nobody would feel like they're getting nothing out of the deal. And sure, the media would try to frame it as something that is making inflation worse but on the other hand people really like to be given money.

It would never happen because it's clear we're never getting anything like the stimulus checks anytime in the near future, of course (which is a shame since normalizing the idea of stimulus checks would be a tiny but significant step towards UBI).

# ¿ Apr 27, 2022 14:03

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# ¿ May 13, 2024 20:23

Srice: Sep 11, 2011

Harold Fjord posted:

I think being concerned about electoral actually represents the whole problem the Democrats have really well.

It doesn't seem like they want to do this because it's the right thing to do but they have to test the waters for perfect electoral impact which makes them seem insincere

It also makes the whole thing baffling* because there are of course policies that poll very well across the whole political spectrum but they don't do those either.

*Well, not really since the reasons tend to get tied into what capital wants so I suppose I should say it makes them appear inconsistent instead?

# ¿ Apr 27, 2022 17:43

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > US CE Spring 2022: I'm convinced it's useless which is why I argue about it all day every day

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