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Just caught up in the manga now that the anime is (supposedly) going on hiatus. I don't mind Gojo losing, but felt like that death wasn't earned. I get that the story is about super-powerful sorcerers, but to me, the fight kind of felt like something school kids come up with during recess when they're role-playing having superpowers and keep one-upping one another until you inevitably end up with some bullshit ability that trumps all others. I don't know, I think I would have liked it more if the fight was a little more contained and the loss was depicted in a more clever way. And then Sukuna is back to full strength. Sorry for probably beating a dead horse. And actually, I think I feel the same way about Kenjaku's death (?). Being this 'clever' doesn't really work when you can make characters clever whenever it's needed to progress the story.
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Nov 29, 2023 20:31
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scary ghost dog posted:jjk, more than any other battle shounen ive read, eschews plausibility and realism in favor of naked spectacle and taoist allegory. this is NOT the manga for fights where a keen reader can anticipate the outcome just by understanding the systems at play and the capabilities of the fighters, no matter how much technical-sounding jargon the english translators insert. this IS the manga where your understanding of dualism, dialectics, and the tao te ching will aid in understanding what jogo meant about cursed spirits being the real humans I'm sure what you're saying is true, but needing a whole lot of background information and knowledge (including on a Chinese text written 2000 years ago) to appreciate the way fights play out is not really a reasonable request for the average fan in my opinion. Especially since I feel none of that was needed up until after the Shibuya incident. I'm also fine with characters (whether friend or foe) having ridiculous abilities. But to have a fight end on "Bet you didn't expect this surprise attack that I particularly acquired because I know it's extra effective against you" is just a lame way to end a (long-lasting) fight imo  Are the mathematical explanations in-between chapters also something inserted by English translators? ZenMasterBullshit posted:Also it feeling like children making poo poo up is kind of the point. They're two people so beyond normal skull and personal limits that they're regularly breaking the known rules of their craft and effortlessly doing risky poo poo that would kill lanyone else as happenstance to what they're trying to achieve. It's two gods interacting and i feel it pulls that off well That's fair and, of course, not everything will be for everyone. See my comment above as to why I think the execution of it is kind of lame though. I should have phrased my original post better, I really liked the fight itself and the different solutions each came up with to deal with the problem presented by the other. So it's actually not really about what powers they have, but more about how these powers play out and how this long, exciting fight ends on a surprise attack that was part of a big master plan. It's just not a very interesting way to end a fight, and that's why I referred to 'children making up powers until they come up with something too strong and break the game'. And then anything Gojo did was useless because he just regenerated. EDIT: All of this probably was not helped by the fact I thought the Shibuya Incident arc was incredibly strong and interesting as opposed to the Culling Game which felt kinda random. EDIT2: I don't want to keep rambling, but again, I felt the same about Kenjaku's death. I think characters being tricked and then killed by a surprise attack is just not interesting, especially if they're supposedly hyper-aware. The theoretical explanation of why they were not aware in that specific situation usually also doesn't make it better. rkd_ fucked around with this message at 22:18 on Nov 29, 2023 |
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Nov 29, 2023 22:12
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Jon Irenicus posted:jjk is a very vibes heavy manga I don't know, I feel the same about Kenjaku vs Takaba. The fight itself was very interesting. The conclusion, not so much.
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Nov 29, 2023 22:19
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Asuron posted:What about the Sukuna vs Gojo rule wasn’t within the rules as written for the manga? I'm not saying it wasn't within the rules, just that I thought the ending of the fight was rather lame. I had hoped for a more interesting ending to the fight than a surprise attack that renders the good guy's technique completely useless. The killing blow happening off screen makes me think even the author could not think of a good way to make it happen. Talking about rules though, I do wonder how: 1) Gojo wasn't able to see that the slashes were coming using Six Eyes; 2) how it makes sense that if you target the universe you can somehow strike 'infinity'; and 3) what exactly is preventing Gojo from healing himself? rkd_ fucked around with this message at 00:35 on Nov 30, 2023 |
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Nov 30, 2023 00:31
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Tosk posted:(at one point Mahoraga's cleave just leaves empty space in a building in the background rather than physically cut through it, or something). How did Gojo not notice this?
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Nov 30, 2023 00:36
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yum posted:my guesses: Huh interesting, thanks, this also answers why it doesn't really matter whether Gojo noticed Sukuna casting the cleave or not. Did he not see Mahoraga's slash being cast because there is no spark? Now I do wonder what the consequences of number 2 are. Are there are now several gaps in 'reality' of cut space? Going back to reread the chapters, I also wonder how Sukuna was able to launch the attack at all considering his condition. Thinking about this more it just kinda feels like the author wrote Gojo and then had to find a way to counter him because otherwise the story would be pretty boring too.
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Nov 30, 2023 01:08
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Shinjobi posted:I do appreciate that...in theory? Gojo could probably heal himself. Except he plum done gone and went and melted his gosh darn brain too many times at that point. Yes, but the black flashes restored his Reversed Cursed Energy right? I mean, the last page before we're shown the sequence with Gojo and all the dead characters show him healing his self-inflicted wounds on his face, so clearly he still has the skill. Also pretty hilarious I see people saying how there's no sign of Gojo in Chapter 237 which must mean he teleported somewhere.
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Nov 30, 2023 02:54
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MonsterEnvy posted:He got bisected by a Cursed Technqiue, I think just regrowing his torso is beyond what he can do with RCT. Didn't he (or someone else) pretty much already do this?
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Nov 30, 2023 21:45
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Tosk posted:Gege wasn't 100% sure what he wanted to do
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Dec 1, 2023 19:59
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Speaking of Nobara, they really do spend a lot of time confirming that she has been taking care of and that the chance of her living is not 0 percent for it to not lead to anything. This isn’t even copium, if she’s dead I’d be fine with that but it would just be weird to draw so much attention to it. Then again the author also had Gojo be freed in the dumbest way so maybe he just leaves stuff in and thinks about how to deal with that later.
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Dec 10, 2023 07:50
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Conspiratiorist posted:
Forgot about this scene. Wonder what the whole point of the healing dude was then. He did not manage to safe her, so was his only contribution getting Yuji back in the fight?
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Dec 11, 2023 03:27
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”That rivals even Gojo Saturo”? Really? Either this guy is truly a genius and will play a determinative role in the fight or he’s just being hyped up to be somewhat emotional cannon fodder. Either way both outcomes suck imo.
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Dec 22, 2023 07:50
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Jerkface posted:Eh that has been kind of the line since he debuted he is a non-incarnated sorcerer who basically mastered curse energy manipulation immediately. He got a full, wack rear end domain in less than a month. He's a monster as written. Though the rest of the "specials" Gojo himself hyped up as having potential to surpass him are all dead/buried/not contributing much right now soooo Yeah but I felt like his domain was inherently limited enough that it’s not crazy powerful. I don’t know, it just seems like a boring option to me. So we couldn’t have Gojo or any other character people grew to like win just so this random all powerful genius can? And if he can’t, what’s the point.
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Dec 22, 2023 08:00
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Jerkface posted:Well I mean cmon, while it would be very funny if Higuruma killed Sakuna, its not gonna happen. Not solo anyways. He may contribute, he could even be vital, given what they mention about his sword target in this chapter. But its going to take the combined efforts of everyone. Maybe it even comes down to Itadori wielding the sword or some poo poo, who knows. Or maybe they will all lose and Sukuna will tch out his little side mouth. Oh yeah, what you say is definitely true. I think Julias a couple posts up put into words how I feel much better than I did. I understand the logical progression of the story, the chapters after the Shibuya incident just feel like a big waste of time and, more importantly, it doesn’t feel like the character deaths led to anything other than they had to be replaced by other characters we have no emotional attachment to. It’d kinda be like killing of 90% of the Harry Potter cast including Harry Potter only to replace them with a couple of other all powerful, talented wizards. But maybe I’m just too down on the series now. Re the domain, that’s fair, but the big limitation is the trial still needs to be conducted and won right? I guess against curses and stuff that’s pretty easy though.
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Dec 23, 2023 23:28
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EDIT: Must be tired, got my people totally mixed up.
rkd_ fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Dec 24, 2023 |
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Dec 23, 2023 23:30
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:I think you're all dumb as heck and the culling game has been fun as poo poo. Yes but the things you’re describing right here is not why the culling game is bad.
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Dec 24, 2023 04:50
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ImpAtom posted:
I feel the same way, but also because now I'm wondering what Gojo died for, other than shocking the audience with the death of a beloved character. We had an all powerful genius die to be replaced with an all power-full genius. The latter had a really cool ability, but it doesn't get used in a meaningful way. UnderFreddy posted:my dream for the manga is the soul switching bullshit from Yuji lol. Hadn't even realised the possibility of him forcing it on Sukuna. If Sukuna dies after launching a soul-destroying attack at Yuji just before Yuji switches souls with him then I'll be very sad 
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Dec 30, 2023 02:44
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Taking out all the poo poo the rest of the crew would be being murdered by right now and I dont think the narrative is describing or treating Higuruma as an 'all powerful genius' in any way. Well, yes, but that's just him replacing Gojo again. If Gojo hadn't died, they wouldn't need someone else to take out all the poo poo. Also, I'm pretty sure Higuruma has been explicitly described as being on the same level as Gojo. He also only needed 12 days after awakening his technique he got to the level of a grade 1 sorcerer. Perhaps I shouldn't have said 'all-powerful', but I used it as a comparison to Gojo.
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Dec 30, 2023 03:10
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:No they didn't they said he's as talented as, while literally the page (if not panel) before is him cursing his own lack of experience and understanding. The literal text on screen says nothing that you said it is. Yes, my bad, they did indeed say as talented as. I wrongly equated that to him being as powerful as Gojo. I guess we’ll have to see what getting stabbed by the sword will do to Sukuna. I don’t know what you mean by your second comment. The whole story is poo poo being made up, I’m just saying I don’t feel that Gojo’s death and subsequent replacement by Higuruma added much to the story. By ‘no one else could’ are you saying that Gojo couldn’t? If Yuji was killed off midway through the story and replaced by Bob who is an equally talented but less powerful sorcerer who can eat and control the fingers too, then yes, I would say something about that if it had no further apparent impact on the story other than to show how strong the villain is. If Gojo could have lead and the only thing that changed pursuant to his death is that another powerful sorcerer shows up and leads in his stead (instead of the main characters having to come up with a creative solution to this problem or it affecting what happens to those characters) then I don’t feel that adds much to the story. rkd_ fucked around with this message at 05:21 on Dec 30, 2023 |
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Dec 30, 2023 05:15
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Oxxidation posted:higuruma wasn't gojo's "replacement," it was just said he had potential on par with gojo's, which was already hinted at with kenjaku's evaluation of him earlier. Yeah, we’ll have to see what happens, but until this point he continued what Gojo would have done. If Higuruma wasn’t there, the rest of the characters would’ve been pretty hosed, and it’s in that sense I say he replaced Gojo. To me, he doesn’t add a lot of interesting stuff other than being the plot protection for the characters. The one thing that does make him interesting isn’t used in the end.
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Dec 30, 2023 05:25
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Oxxidation posted:if any of the current team members weren't there sukuna would have turned them to mince two chapters ago. hakari's super-star bullshit is keeping his backup at bay, mei-mei's coordinating strike tactics, even that one yutz in the ninja pajamas kept him distracted for a bit. that's the point, it's taking a strike team of everyone they have left to do a tenth of what gojo was capable of, and even then their evaluation is "if sukuna gets one clean hit in or has any tricks we're not aware of then it's game over" Higuruma is not just keeping Sukuna at bay or distracting him though. He is/was set up to (help) deliver a crucial blow to him. The only difference is indeed that Gojo didn’t need the team to distract Sukuna. ZenMasterBullshit posted:He hasn't replaced Gojo at all though. Like that's not what's happening at all I mean, wasn’t he being portrayed as the last hope, being the one remaining sorcerer that could defeat Sukuna with his technique? That ended up not working either and we’re now waiting to see what the sword will do. I understand he’s not 1:1 Gojo, but I do feel he was presented as a possible (and perhaps only) solution after Gojo’s death, the back up plan in case Gojo failed. rkd_ fucked around with this message at 07:01 on Dec 30, 2023 |
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Dec 30, 2023 06:04
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SyntheticPolygon posted:Well, I feel like this chapter makes it pretty clear that this is kinda the angle the story is going for. Yeah, you may be right, I probably would not be this down on how the fight is developing if it didn't immediately follow up on the Gojo fight. I just think that Gojo's death was such wasted potential. We had the most powerful sorcerer set up to defeat the most powerful villain. Then the most powerful sorcerer fails at doing so (which I still don't understand how you can bypass 'infinity'.) Now that is a really interesting situation, and there are many different creative ways to solve that problem (and it would be especially great if the solution to that problem was hinted at throughout the course of the manga instead of it being another rear end-pull). What we get though, is what you describe. Not just that, but Higuruma is also hyped up as being equal in talent to Gojo AND they discuss how they may be able to defeat Sukuna using his technique, so it seems like he will have a bigger role to play rather than just passing on the sword. He doesn't, so now we are back to Yuji. I know people are rooting for Yuji to win because Sukuna doesn't even recognize him as a potential threat (even though he should based on earlier panels), but the manga has not given the audience a reason to see Yuji in the same light. To us, he doesn't seem less of an underdog than anyone else (bar Gojo). Partly the issue will also be on how they will finally get Sukuna to be vulnerable. We've seen him pull so many tricks out of the bag against both Gojo and Higuruma, so whatever manages for Sukuna to run out of tricks must be really clever to be satisfying. Perhaps Yuji will awaken to his true identity which would be pretty cool but what a long-winding road to get there. Killing off many beloved characters with unsatisfying deaths seems like a trend, and it's all to focus on Yuji.
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Dec 30, 2023 19:48
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Infected posted:If you imagine a sheet of paper as the place where all fights happen in JJK then to attack Gojo you need to draw a line on the paper from yourself to him. His technique would then Zeno's Paradox the attack so that it never actually reaches him. Meanwhile what Sukuna's adapted Dismantle achieved was basically just tearing apart the sheet of paper itself. Oh right, I see. So basically Gojo is able to manipulate space, but the adapted Dismantle just tore a hole in space itself. I wonder if that has any further implications seems that seems like a pretty big deal.
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Dec 30, 2023 21:56
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Char posted:According to Kenjaku, the three that had any kind of chance against Sukuna were Hakari, Yuta and Maki. Higuruma is a new card in the deck. ZenMasterBullshit posted:No he's just the current plan because it might also let them save their friend Megumi. Hakari Maki and Yuta were all called out by the other antagonist as people that might also have a chance against him. Ah yeah, I guess he isn’t the only one then. I was thinking back to chapter 244 in which the entire group discusses Higuruma and how there’s a sure way to get Sukuna the death penalty. While these others were mentioned, but Higuruma is the one that is put into action (and set up as being the solution) immediately after Gojo’s death. I wonder if we’ll just go down the list and have all of them fail? That could stretch it another year until we finally reach the conclusion. Also, as a side note, the fact he’s able to face off against Sukuna (somewhat) only 2 months after awakening to his technique makes him a seriously impressive sorcerer. Not sure if I like that or not.
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Dec 31, 2023 20:47
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Nuebot posted:Also like, broadly speaking; being in the same arc (and in some cases literally the same fight) for over a year can just burn people the gently caress out on a story. A lot of that stuff reads a lot better when you read it through without the week by week update but boy howdy does several straight months of "And then this character attacked and did nothing, and then this character attacked and did nothing, and then this character attacked and died." really just kind of suck sometimes. Even in the one piece thread there were a few people getting tired of Wano by the end, and especially during the dressarosa arc there were people absolutely ready for that to end. This is kinda where I'm at, even though I only caught up a couple of weeks ago. It's just a little boring to see Sukuna deal with everything and the more he does, the more impressive his final moments will have to be. Asuron posted:Gojo didn’t know Sukuna could penetrate infinity and getting caught off guard with the world slash is again something entirely plausible and within the nature of Gojo( his arrogance and cockiness), that he thought whatever was coming infinity would just tank. This doesn't really make sense as Gojo's arm is cut off by the same attack about two chapters prior to his death. Gojo is cocky, as is apparent by the look on his face when he realizes the attack hits and cuts of his arm, but not so cocky he would ignore that threat entirely after having his arm cut off. E: He may not have thought that Sukuna could learn the technique just by seeing it though. But imo that's a rather lame way to lose a fight. rkd_ fucked around with this message at 06:11 on Jan 3, 2024 |
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Jan 3, 2024 06:02
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Asuron posted:I treat it as with Mahoraga being the one to cut him, not Sukuna , he thought the only way through is amplificatin. Yeah, it can make sense in the universe, it's just a lame way for a character like Gojo to go out.
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Jan 3, 2024 08:22
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Taima posted:This is almost under-selling it; he cratered almost everything. All of the politics, the sorcerer families, really even the concept of fighting geographically located curses as a duty to society that characterized the original manga intentions. Jujutsu High? Gone. Kyoto and all of the students who were clearly supposed to grow alongside Yuji? Gone. Principal Yaga? Done real dirty. I had totally forgotten that curses were connected to local events/feelings. It would be cool if that was still the case in the same vein as something like Chainsaw Man's devils.
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Jan 4, 2024 00:21
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PringleCreamEgg posted:Nobara’s ability is totally broken, if she hadn’t been written out of the story this arc would have ended after a dozen chapters. Gege has no issue writing stuff specifically to counter a character's broken ability, even in the most uninteresting ways. He would have found a way, but it seems he just couldn't be bothered (or is setting us up for a big comeback).
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Jan 5, 2024 20:45
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SyntheticPolygon posted:E: This sounds more hostile than I wanted it too. I just mean I don't think JJK's problems (or strengths) feels super unique to me. Though i've got the advantage of only having caught up recently so I haven't been in the week to week grind. I think JJK's first season definitely had unique strengths and it got people to hope for a show that it didn't end up being. rkd_ fucked around with this message at 23:00 on Jan 5, 2024 |
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Jan 5, 2024 22:58
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SyntheticPolygon posted:I watched it recently and it was really competent and all but I dunno, nothing stood out to me like "drat man! Nobody's doin it like this!" I thought the connection of the curses with local events and feelings, the (family) houses, the 'political' system of the sorcerers as a hidden society underlying the 'real' society, and the power system that followed very rigid rules up until a certain point was very interesting. That stuff was then just ignored to be a standard battle shonen though. I mean, I guess none of this stuff is unique (which is nearly impossible at this point) but I thought JJK did it in an interesting way that I wanted it developed further.
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Jan 5, 2024 23:42
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No Wave posted:I disagree and Chainsaw Man was arguably detonated in the same way, with the gun devil being found and killed almost offscreen after setting up a very similar premise to JJK. But it felt more under control. A lot of series set up long-running quests that just get put aside, I don't find the direction of JJK that abnormal except that it's ending so soon. I disagree, you're leaving out a huge part of the story that follows what you put in spoiler tags. The gun devil was indeed found off-screen, but wasn't killed. Instead, it was kept unconscious with different superpowers across the world owning fragments of it, using these fragments as protection. Makima goes on to collect these fragments, but the US president makes a deal with the gun devil to kill Makima in exchange of one year of the life spans of all US citizens. This fails (and Makima controls the gun devil), who then possesses Aki's corpse, which causes Denji to have to kill Aki. Imo, CSM is an example of an off-screen revelation done right, especially since it led to further interesting developments in the story. In any case, it was definitely not just put aside. As an aside and in response to some other comments in this thread, I don't think other manga following the same disappointing routes is any reason to not be disappointed with JJK doing it too. rkd_ fucked around with this message at 02:02 on Jan 7, 2024 |
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Jan 7, 2024 01:16
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RatHat posted:I assume they meant (Chainsawman spoiler)Makima vs the Gun devil was mostly offscreen Perhaps, although the post is talking about the detonation of a series and putting previous things aside. Regardless though, something happening off-screen is very different when it drives the story directly thereafter vs when not. I don't think you can say 'they both had things happen off-screen so they're equal' without considering the context.
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Jan 7, 2024 05:41
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Asuron posted:Uhhhh sure if you ignore the surrounding context of her realising she was fighting a clone, that she didn’t see the switch because Mahito deliberately blocked her view of the clone with his body, which works because of the tight space and that she just rounded the corner Yes as the writer Gege can make everything make sense but it's still an incredibly lame way for a character to go out. Beyond the shock value of her death, there's nothing interesting about it.
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Jan 11, 2024 20:04
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Taima posted:
Bringing back Gojo of course. What the gently caress was this chapter even.
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Jan 18, 2024 05:09
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Conspiratiorist posted:I think Gege cares about the story, but the story he wants to tell is not the one you'd have preferred to read. What is the story he currently wants to tell? I feel like I've just been watching this fight very slowly progress for a crazy amount of time now, and many interesting things ended up being rug-pulls.
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Jan 23, 2024 06:10
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Manatee Cannon posted:we've known for a long time that gege wanted a tragedy. and rug pulls are no stranger to this series either Yeah I don’t mind tragedy nor rug pulls, but I’m already on the floor, pulling the rug is just mostly annoying now rather than shocking.
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Jan 23, 2024 10:40
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The Notorious ZSB posted:That I swear is most of this manga: Cool Idea -> will it be expanded on and given context -> NO
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Jan 25, 2024 00:04
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I just hope we see my boy Inumaki do some cool poo poo at some point again.
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Jan 28, 2024 01:27
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Taima posted:But JJK has been stripped so methodically of its complexity that at this point it's basically a 2 dimensional story; this character does this. This character does that. Wait for 2 weeks to see what this character does! Yes, and I kinda want the fight to be over with so we can hopefully go back to something more interesting.
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Jan 29, 2024 22:47
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Weren't you like a few pages ago getting confused over what the manga calling someone a "genius like gojo" meant? I'm not sure it's a lack of complexity that's ruining the comic for you. Not sure what’s up with the hostility, I’m only saying I’m ready for more story instead of just the fight
rkd_ fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Jan 31, 2024 |
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Jan 31, 2024 09:11
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