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Wing Chun gets a lot of poo poo, and a good portion of that is deserved in the sense that there's lots of terrible WC out there. Part of the problem is that there's really no legitimate sport version of it. Competitive WC is full of silly rules that are meant to get to the heart of what the art is but end up missing the point entirely. This means people end up comparing it to boxing or kickboxing or grappling in the context of those sports. It's definitely not as good as boxing for boxing, not as good as MT for MT, not as good for wrestling as wrestling - but this should go without saying. What I think WC done right does have is the potential to address each of those things in a coherent and fascinating way while also at least attempting to cover non-sport self defense type stuff as well. Often WC seems to be viewed primarily as a striking art, and when you train it that way it ends up more or less lame stiff boxing. As I'm taught, the emphasis isn't so much on landing punches, but on controlling a person's structure/balance upon making contact and preventing them from regaining it. The ultimate ideal end is less about knocking people out or throwing them on their head and more about control and neutralization. It's not easy by any means. That said, if one can get there, I think hitting a person or tossing or tripping them is the relatively easy part. But it's hard to test, hard to provide evidence over the Internet. Boxing-style sparring doesn't apply very easily because gloves would be a massive hindrance. There's chi sao, which eventually uses strikes to the chest, but it's a tricky thing to understand without feeling it, and I've yet to find a video of anyone else doing it the way my teachers do. Generally it's much more static and striking based, with a lot of guys even doing it with their feet planted in place facing each other straight on, or maybe taking a straight step forward and back now and then. As I know it it's a beautiful fluid three dimensional thing with unlimited movement - front/back, side to side, up and down vertically, 360 degrees of rotation, and whatever else. You can use it to find openings to strike, or to trap and tangle up the opponents arms and pull them into a strike, but it's just as much about tossing the opponent off their feet. I could talk about Wing Chun all day, but long story short it's probably the most misunderstood martial art there is. It would be tricky to apply to any popular combat sport (mma would probably be best actually, but would take a lot of crosstraining), but I don't consider that a failing. It takes a long time to do right, and finding a good school might be very difficult. At it's best though I think it's unique and amazing and potentially extremely effective. When I say extremely effective self defense comes to mind as the first utility, but the more practical uses for me have been improvement of balance, fitness, and coordination (don't need to hold the railing on the subway so much any more), a much easier more graceful time lifting/carrying things (whether a massive speaker cabinet or a glass of water) stemming from a new understanding of how my body works, and an ability to hold my ground and feel heavier than I am when some jerk tries and fails to push between me and my friends at a crowded concert. If that jerk were to take offense and wing a hook at my head I think it would be quite useful there too, but fortunately none of that thus far.
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Oct 29, 2011 19:14
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Illegal Username posted:without ever testing those skills under pressure Nope Illegal Username posted:focus on "Street techniques" like eye poking and groin kicking They're there and could be useful in hypothetical situations but are far from the main idea of things and not at all emphasized in my experience. Saying wing chun is about eye poking and groin kicking is like saying bjj is about training to choke a guy out with your shin. Illegal Username posted:The footwork is linear and unflexible, mostly owing to the retarded fighting stance. Maybe. But I think the stances are more about engraining habits into beginners and grow more loose and natural with time. Experienced guy push inexperienced guys around easily enough without the weird looking inward stance. Illegal Username posted:Also there is zero grappling involved so the ultimate result of wing chun training is a sloppy kickboxer. I think you could interpret wing chun as grappling, even though there's punching too. There's usually no groundwork, but you can work takedowns attempts into the more live drills. There's definitely more grappling than boxing and at least arguably more than muay thai. Illegal Username posted:There is one bright side though: WC is the one of the leading contributors of hilarious martial art videos. This part is true. This is just in my experience though and I'm sure schools like what you're describing exist, and that sucks. kimbo305 posted:Help contribute to the MA community by getting some video. Maybe some day Decades fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Oct 29, 2011 |
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Oct 29, 2011 20:07
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Illegal Username posted:...so you teach newbies a bad stance and hope they grow out of it? I wouldn't say that you grow out of it so much as it grows more subtle and efficient as you learn to do more with less. When I call it grappling I mean that in the broad sense inclusive of the clinch, gripfighting, aikido and such I suppose - pretty much anything that's not striking. I think wing chun's probably closer to that than it is to pure striking, but it's not necessarily a helpful comparison anyway. Really more it's own thing.
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Oct 29, 2011 21:30
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Not vouching for his style or even agreeing that it counts as wing chun necessarily, but for the sake of completeness there's also Alan Orr's team. He's all about crosstraining and adapting wing chun to make it "work" by loosening it up and bringing it closer to standard mma striking I guess. He still keeps his feet planted in chi sao. http://www.alanorr.co.uk/htdocs/ironwolves/ironwolves.html Some of them win things sometimes.
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Oct 30, 2011 17:08
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I'd bet Lee could beat up your average Joe Haymaker ok up until the takedown. Aldo or Edgar not so much. But his philosophy is enjoyable and the Chinese Connection rules.
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Dec 23, 2011 15:28
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I'm pretty late to Wing Chun chat this time, but as potentially one of the more level-headed CMA representatives here I'd still like to jump in.02-6611-0142-1 posted:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDLRX1P0bEg Hi, I'm a person on the Internet trying to convince you that Wing Chun is great. I think the points about rotational attacks and the range are interesting and valid criticisms that I've thought about before. The range part is tricky and something we spend a of time on. Though I think it's a bit misleading that the drills tend to take place in that awkwardly close deep inside pseudo-clinch range, in the sense that the goal of the wing chun practitioner isn't so much to linger in that range, but rather to drive deeper in and through your center of gravity once the opening is there. I'd mostly disagree that there's such a thing as too close. Regarding rotational attacks, I think the answer is similar - that we'd do our best to avoid that range. There's really no blocking in WC, and not enough room in the centerline-obsessed approach for hooks to be addressed in a really direct way. It's not perfect. You'll get caught sometimes. C'est la vie. Others have pointed out the general problem that wing chun is too focused on a particular range. I don't know if that's a criticism so much as a question of scope. All arts have their ideal range, particularly if you include standing vs grounded as ranges. This is part of the benefit of cross training. I'd agree that dismissing cross training is misguided or at best old fashioned. Wing chun's ideal range is an unusual one, but yes, it exists. Developing a jab to go with the wing chun would probably help practicality, and a ground game definitely would, but those aren't criticisms of the style itself. I don't think it's fair to criticize wing chun for lacking a ground game while implicitly touting western boxing, and I don't think two bad mma fighters self-identifying as wing chun guys means much of anything. And despite what a couple others have mentioned, wing chun is not particularly cool looking, and has very very little to do with Bruce Lee movies. There are a lot of delusional tma folks out there on the Internet, and wing chun attracts quite a few of them. Most WC out there does seem to be rather watered down and lame, but I wouldn't want to judge anyone in particular too harshly without actually meeting them and touching hands. I guess it's something of a feedback loop where a style gets the reputation for being less intense or strenuous or difficult than others, wimps become attracted to it, the reputation becomes reinforced, more guys who don't want to fight are attracted, then mma happens and a line is drawn in the sand, and then everything is either muay thai or its zumba. I want to give a little outline of one way to run a decent wing chun class: 1) 15 minute stretching / warmup / discussion 2) 10 minutes of forms. A nice warmup that helps perfect certain postures and gestures. Largely akin to shadowboxing in my opinion but people will probably fight me on that one. Much more structured, yes, but still different and potentially enlightening every time. 3) 40 minutes of hard bodyweight exercise. Different kinds of pushups, planks, and leglifts, but most of the emphasis is on the legs. Holding low stances, different kinds of squats and jumps, etc. Mixed in are some pad drills with punches, kicks, and even some rotational stuff (though not hooks). Sometimes this is just having the pad held in front of you, sometimes with the pad holder in motion. This is the best time to work on maximizing speed and power in your strikes. If you're doing it right this section of class is intense and pushes your limits. 4) 10 minutes of basic sensitivity drills with a partner that focus on the hands / arms, generally with the two standing straight on in close range. Lots of this stuff on youtube. Another common starting point is a mirrored "bridging" stance with one foot forward and an outstretched arm. alright you got me this part is in bruce lee movies 5) 20 minutes of more live pad drills. The guy training is unrestrained within reason and can attack and respond how they choose (in general wing chun type ways). The pad holder, with focus pads, "attacks" with one hand while holding one to his chest / shoulder, alternating freely, throwing straights and hooks with little power, moving freely, and occasionally attempting to grab a solid hold of the body or legs. This is not sparring, and is not full contact or full resistance, though the guy doing the training hits hard. I wear a mouthpiece as pad holder after getting cracked good a couple of times. Again, this is not sparring. The pad holder is restrained in that they're not throwing combinations and can't apply "real" pressure, as there's little force used and little threat. That said I think it's good stuff in other ways. It's helpful for movement, and this is one of the main ways we practice the entrance into that aforementioned ideal range. 6) 20 minutes of Chi Sao / sticking hands wrist-to-wrist type drills. After one learns the basics of what they're doing here in a stationary position, movement is introduced. One guy will attempt to push the other backwards from one end of the room to the other, while the other holds his ground the best he can without actually pushing back. Both pay careful attention to their body structure, avoid disrupting their balance and letting themselves fall to the side or be pulled forward, and avoiding letting a hand slip through the center and contact the body. Later angles are introduced. Later both push each other simultaneously. Later comes rotation. Later comes trapping and actual strikes and whole oceans of other complexities. This is the part of class that's closer in spirit and in practice to sparring, though probably closer to randori/rolling than to true striking styles. It's not really full contact, but it is full resistance. It may not look like much to a spectator, but here I squeeze every drop of physical resistance from my body that I can, every class. Fascinatingly enough, the drill also works with very little energy and resistance involved, and a more advanced practitioner might be able to break and control my balance with straight-up comically low output of force. From what I gather, other classes often drop sections 3, 5, and possibly 1 entirely, while performing number 6 more like number 4. To me that is bananas. One of the reasons WC fascinates me is that it can't be adequately described as striking nor as grappling, but exists in between and combines them - not in a composite mix and match jack of all trades kind of way, but as something organic. It doesn't alternate between the two - its always both. Wing chun will not, however, turn one into an untouchable killing machine capable of outwrestling wrestlers, outboxing boxers, and plucking eyeballs with ease. That said I feel fairly positive about my ability to box up a straight judoka of comparable experience level without getting easily thrown, or to toss a straight boxer of comparable experience level on his rear end repeatedly without getting too catastrophically lit up, or to defend myself against an unarmed average joe attacker to permit sufficient space to break into a sprint. But none of those things have come up yet - just speculation and I've got lots more to learn. This is my experience so far, but a lot of people would contradict a lot of it. A lot.
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Apr 11, 2012 03:30
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kimbo305 posted:I'll ask just to get it out of the way -- at what point in a well designed WC curriculum can you start sparring as realistically (wrt WC techniques) as possible? Can it be done using fencing masks or other full eye protecting headgear? As far as eye and throat strikes and that type of stuff goes, I suppose something like fencing masks would be best, but really I think that's the type of thing you'd never be able to spar in a satisfying way. I imagine it would be tough enough to gauge effectiveness that the effort wouldn't be too helpful. Better to focus on perfecting the parts that would work with sparring, mostly punching each other and uprooting / balance breaking. We don't send each other flying but we do try and trap each other in corners and against walls. The aim really is to prevent an opponent from reaching your head/body period, whether in the form of an eye jab, punch, reach for a thai clinch, etc, and particularly if the opponent is rooted (/has their base). Eye / throat stuff seems pretty conditional and tough to utilize if the opponent moves their head at all. If, by vanishingly small chance, I find myself in a krav maga style life and death cornered situation, maybe that stuff would come out on its own, but then maybe not. We really only practice those types of strikes in forms thus far. kimbo305 posted:I think one thing that I've sought for a long time but haven't come across is how WC techniques can be used against other striking arts. If you looking at other striking disciplines like boxing or MT, while there is a huge range of technique, individuals usually stick to a subset that suits their body or preferences. And this shows up in sparring -- there'll always be a conflict in style, with adjustments having to be made, new tactics called into service. When I see WC practictioners spar, 90% of the time they plod forward in an empty stance with the lead spear hand in a warding posture and rear hand in front of the chest. That would be fine on its own, but the attacks and responses they execute from there seem very very limited. Limited attacks and responses sounds true to an extent. We're mostly focused on that one straight punch and slight variations, usually while stepping in. In that Jack Dempsey book that was posted in here not long ago, the first falling step straight left punch he describes sounds and feels very familiar, except that he says to keep the weight further to the front, which makes sense and feels a bit quicker since boxers aren't too worried about getting grabbed and thrown. Guess we’d stand a bit lower too. One way to try and explain the difference between WC and other/actual striking as I understand it is that strikers will try and move, avoid your attacks, and hit you. With WC the idea is more like trying to move you, severely disrupt your base such that you can't attack or defend too meaningfully, and launching those stylistically limited attacks while you're in a bad position and can't do much to stop them even if you see them coming. Ideally this means landing punches while you're way off balance, which, based on combat sports, seems to be when dudes get knocked out. kimbo305 posted:All that said, I would love to spar a WC guy. It would be an exercise in countering while avoiding the high centerline, which I would immediately cede to him. I'd come in with deep cut kicks to try to keep him off balance and spend the rest of the time outranging with teeps or sidestepping and straight punches to the body. Interesting to read. The outranging part is a concern for sure. The point about avoiding the high centerline is interesting. One thing that we hold important that I haven't emphasized is being able to change levels and sink down low quickly. That's a big reason for all our low stance and squat exercises - we've got to be reasonably comfortable dropping our hips all the way down to knee height if necessary. So I think my objective there would be to sink and meet you wherever you go, controlling not just the high centerline, but the whole thing. I’d imagine lateral movement mixed with quick teeps being the more challenging part for the WC guy. Nierbo posted:Unlike most people, I love TMA debates. Thanks for that write up. On another note, have you ever done Judo? and how would you approach a fight with someone who you knew was a semi/accomplished judoka? No gi for arguments sake. Thank you for not taking that Judo bit the wrong way. Judo rules and I have the biggest crush on Rhonda Rousey. Haven't tried it, just a little bit of bjj, but I'd definitely be interested. If I had to pick another art that was closest to the core of what we do it'd probably be Judo. We've got strikes and lack the gi, but I imagine if I were to jump ship, Judo's where my skills would be most applicable. As far as approaching a fight, the WC guy would do what he could to strike without overcommitting and would sink his hips down as low as needed if he felt the Judo guy trying to disrupt his balance. WC guy would try and keep his elbows in tight to the body to discourage Judo guy grabbing underhooks, and hopefully the Judo guy’s efforts to get a grip would lead him right into WC guy’s range. But I'm sure Judoka have tricks up their sleeves. Speaking of sleeves the gi would also of course be a huge complication if that were involved. As a Judo player, how would you go about clinching up no-gi while protecting your center from straight strikes? As I picture it you'd have to reach and expose yourself, but surely there are ways. For the record this stuff should be taken with a grain of salt since we're talking hypotheticals. Fantasy sparring chat is still fun though. Who’d win between a Ninjitsu guy riding a Mongolian wrestler and an Aikido guy riding a wolverine? The wolverine is in a gi. E: Xguard86 posted:You seem like a reasonable guy but I'm going to have to make this point: when boxers spar, it looks like boxing, when wrestlers spar it looks like wrestling, it's that way for every martial art we recommend. Every wc sparring session I've seen has been either an inch short of choreographed or devolved into bad kickboxing after the first flurry. No full contact champion in either striking or MMA has a wc background. I can't really disagree with any of this, honestly. If Chi Sao and related drills can count as sparring then that helps WC's case, but in my experience most practitioners don't approach that stuff in the right way anyway - often much too static, with the guy on offense landing his strikes on the surface of his opponent rather than driving through him. If you're looking for WC applied practically to mma then Alan Orr and his crew in the UK seems to be the best place to start, but I don't really find what they do to be that similar to what I do anyway (so maybe I shouldn't even mention them). The better answer is no one has done it right yet, no one has put enough energy into their WC to make it work while also dedicating enough time to all the other components of mma to make them work. Maybe it's inherently tough to apply, or maybe it's a symptom of the poor state of the broad WC community. The small gloves of mma and no-glove nature of WC might be one plus side - that there's less emphasis on sticking a glove to the side of your head, which it seems doesn't work as well in mma as in boxing, and more emphasis on parrying, deflection, "trapping" and such. I've noticed movements that have reminded me of WC from great mma strikers as diverse as Anderson Silva, Frankie Edgar, Lyoto Machida, and GSP. If Lyoto can get Machida karate to work, then I'm sure someone can get WC to work. The problem is Lyoto was raised to fight from the womb. Maybe that's what it would take. Decades fucked around with this message at 15:20 on Apr 11, 2012 |
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Apr 11, 2012 14:51
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Polyrhythmic Panda posted:That's all it is. If you don't spar, your style is essentially useless. No amount of theory will change that fact. If you even skimmed my admittedly long-rear end post then by sparring you must mean full-contact striking. So who's going to break it to jiu-jitsu and wrestling that their styles are useless? I don't have the heart.
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Apr 11, 2012 15:24
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McNerd posted:If I'm understanding correctly that "trapping range" is more of a transient position than a place you hang out, why do you do most of your drilling from there? Good points. I oversimplified when I said that a WC guy wouldn’t want to hang out in that range – the point is more not to linger in that range while your opponent is rooted. Started from outside range, the ideal for the WC guy is to enter and make contact of some sort or another, use that contact to break the opponent’s balance (uproot), and only linger insofar as you can maintain that state of balanced WC guy and unbalanced opponent. The easiest way to picture it is the opponent being rocked straight back on their heels with an initial punch, push, or even just the penetrating step leading the way itself, making contact around the crotch or hips. The WC guy would try to follow the opponent as he moves to continue striking or pushing and maintain that unbalanced state until the opponent is stuck in a corner or on the ground. This is sort of where the whole “chain punching” thing comes in. This is usually approached one of two ways that I’d argue are no good. The first and most frequently ridiculed approach to chain punching is standing in place and landing loose rapid fire punches without power like a kung fu movie – the opponent held in place by… something. The second problematic approach is charging forward like a freight train. Here the punches may or may not have power, but there are a lot of other problems with all out rushing an opponent head-on that I don’t think I need to get into here. To do it right you’ve got to remain present and sensitive to the opponent’s movements, following closely, but not chasing, and prepared to stop on a dime and readjust your angles if the opponent starts to recover – which they pretty surely will if they’re used to martial arts or fighting of any kind. They also probably wont stagger straight back flailing like a spaz, as the charging type of chainpuncher probably pictures. Real life fighting happens at constantly changing angles. I’d say this is more of a challenge than a problem for the WC guy, who should really be trying to shift to a side and take angles anyway, as you’ll more likely be able to wreck the opponent’s balance and get him tripped up that way, not to mention better striking opportunities presenting themselves. The kind of control I’m talking about is hard to describe and hard to picture and might even sound farfetched until you’ve felt it. It requires a kind of sensitivity that requires years to develop. In more modern/western terms I guess you could roughly swap in “timing” for sensitivity, but not exactly. A skilled WC guy can make an unskilled one dance using the wrist-to-wrist contact alone as the latter tries to stay on his feet, but is pushed and pulled continuously in the direction he least expects and is never able to get his hips under him. This is when you can safely linger in that very close range, along with any time that your opponents hands are both controlled (which I guess is pretty limited to a WC trying mutually to do the same thing to you). Hope that somewhat answers the question. Smegmatron posted:The early UFCs pretty much settled this. Grapplers generally just protected their heads and shot in for a takedown. The time it took them to shoot exposed them to one or maybe two effective strikes and then a bunch of generally ineffective body shots in the clinch if they didnt get a clean takedown. We’re very much on the same page here. I didn’t mean to suggest defending takedowns with strikes in my response. It’s the dropped hips that are the important element of the actual takedown defence. The strikes are there because if the opening presents itself, why wouldn’t they be? As I understand it the main reason we’d try to drop our hips while keeping both feet on the ground rather than sprawl is to permit us to keep hitting. Also keep in mind that I was talking about sparring a Judoka, who I’d expect to clinch high, rather than a wrestler who’d shoot low. Low shots are tougher to deal with for WC guys, but also probably for just about anyone. Well-rounded skillsets are best, and nothing is wrestling but wrestling. WC can’t beat wrestling at its own game, but I do think that the stuff I’ve been talking about beats any pure striking art in the takedown defense department. kimbo305 posted:I don't like this attitude (not that I'm accusing you of standing for it). Let's leave jabs to the eyes off the table. Once you take that out, WC striking is fully compatible rules-wise with Muay Thai. Sure you might not want to spar with unpadded elbows and knees to the head all the time, but it's possible. And if it's possible, WC tactical development shouldn't have to be hypothetical. You can just go and do it. Sounds good to me, though two things I’d like to pick at as far as compatibility with Muay Thai. One is throws/trips, as in actually tossing your opponent to the ground. I’m ignorant as to how that would be scored in Muay Thai, but I think it would make sense to award points for it if that’s not already the case. The second more important thing is gloves, and this is a problem for pretty much any real or hypothetical attempt at sport WC. It works a lot better bare-handed, even though it doesn’t generally make sense to fight people that way. Open-handed mma gloves could be a reasonable compromise, but closed gloves, even smaller Muay Thai ones, would be significantly restrictive. Personally I’m still challenged enough within my class (and pressed enough for time) that I don’t feel too compelled to seek out boxers and grapplers to test myself against, at least for now. I’m arguably still learning the basics of WC, even though I’m a couple of years in. But yeah, no reason it couldn’t happen. Am I the chosen white dragon who will in time rise up to evolve CMA into the ultimate modern hybrid fighting style? Probably not, no. But I think it kind of sort of could be done. Polyrhythmic Panda I can really only tell you to read my first post again. If wrestling and rolling count as sparring then the final section of my class outline does too. If I were to test my training in a boxing gym tomorrow I’d get punched a lot and would have some terrible habits that are only stripped away from a person after lots of full contact striking-based sparring – no delusions there.
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Apr 11, 2012 20:00
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I still think the the main disagreement I've got with anyone on this page boils down to "All Wing Chun is ineffective" vs "Almost all Wing Chun is ineffective." I have no interest in attempting a sweeping defense of all people and things identifying themselves as kung fu or WC - and in fact criticized other WC variations in pretty decent detail, so when people use the early UFCs (that I've watched repeatedly) and random sparring videos as reference points, I don't have much to say but "yup". Discussing specific elements of technique that I've actually brought up is a different story, and I'd be genuinely enthused to learn more about reaping the leg, etc. I'm a guy who stumbled into a particular class that I think is unique and cool and distinctly different from most and felt like sharing a bit of my personal thoughts and experiences. I feel like we're getting to the part of the discussion where y'all say "show me" (not unreasonable) and I have nothing to show (just the way it is). Some of the best things in life are not viewable on Youtube. Decades fucked around with this message at 01:49 on Apr 12, 2012 |
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Apr 12, 2012 01:33
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Gentlemen, we can't fight in here, this is the fighting thread!
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Apr 12, 2012 02:54
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TheStampede posted:As a note, I'm pretty sure no one died here. At least, not according to Wikipedia. I'm pretty sure you can make out the soul leaving his body if you squint, but yeah, don't worry. It came back.
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Dec 24, 2012 21:22
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My school's having a Mark Henry seminar this Sunday and I'm pretty excited (because Frankie Edgar is the loving greatest). That said, I'm Muay Thai novice at very best, having had maybe a dozen classes total. Any last minute tips for making the most of what will be a guaranteed total overwhelming information overload for me? I figure that if I can grasp at least a couple new key ideas that'll be worth the price of admission. On the plus side my conditioning is not bad and I shouldn't be too hopelessly gassed. Just wish I knew poo poo about striking.
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Jul 19, 2013 23:10
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BlindSite posted:You'll probably be surprised at how the seminar is a little easier than you expected. Most of them are no different to a normal class just a different teacher who'll have some tweaks to what you normally do. It's not going to be a massive mind gently caress. If you don't understand something sing out and ask for some clarification, you're paying too and they'll have had bigger novices then you rock up to their seiminars. This proved true enough for the most part. Our regular class is generally split into basic and advanced and the stuff we did today was probably along the lines of advanced class complexity, which was still a step up for me. 6 or 7 part combinations rather than 3 or 4. But besides the best parts were probably Mark's extended technical tangents during and in between the drilling. He's a real chill funny guy. All in all it was a great time and I made good progress I think. Part of the reason I expected the mind gently caress was that I was pretty seriously overwhelmed by a Ricardo Almeida seminar earlier in the year (and I'm more experienced with grappling than striking). It was definitely cool but just soooo much information. Maybe bjj / sub grappling is just more complex than striking? Or maybe I just still don't know poo poo about kickboxing.
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Jul 22, 2013 05:05
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Speaking of abrasive children my gym started a 3 to 5 years Tiny Tigers program that loads out as Muay Thai is loading in. OK actually the kids are super chill. But they get to break boards and I am extremely loving jealous.
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Jul 31, 2013 19:35
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Novum posted:Then of course you're putting yourself in a position where you're learning how to stab a dude in the belly. This. While it's pretty unlikely that I'd ever need to toss and perhaps choke a dude, that's something that I can at least picture happening in a reasonably plausible hypothetical scenario. A situation where it's a appropriate to stab a dude, where that wouldn't be considered escalating the conflict to an extreme (homicidal) degree, is so vanishingly unlikely that I'm basically visualizing myself as Jason Bourne at that point. The damage resulting from good martial arts / self defense training should be scalable to the situation, and true tooth and nail life and death scenarios are the least likely thing you'll encounter, and so kind of the least important.
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Oct 17, 2013 09:39
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Mechafunkzilla posted:Wing Chun is stupid dogshit because if they sparred and applied what works in sparring it would just turn into kickboxing, not because it lacks groundwork. Good Wing Chun is more like no gi judo with punching. Bad Wing Chun is bad kickboxing. The differences are in the footwork and stance, sitting lower on average, and actually generating the power and leverage to disrupt the opponent's base ("uproot them" in kung fu terms) as you strike. To the guy looking for a school, kung fu ranges from pacifist acrobatics to sitting around talking about chi to lame kickboxing to a mix of material that's effectively modern mma to more esoteric stuff and it all runs the full spectrum from sedentary to extremely challenging, nonsense to practical. It could be worth looking in to depending on what's around your area, but if in doubt, then yeah, I'd agree muay thai or judo/bjj.
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Nov 11, 2013 16:25
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Raenir Salazar posted:What's the primary difference between judo and BJJ? Primarily emphasis on the throw (Judo) versus the groundwork that happens after (bjj). Probably best combined.
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Nov 11, 2013 16:54
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In addition to what's been said, there's also always someone bigger and stronger than you, even for big and strong dudes. relevant to the topic: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3dCEUi683As&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D3dCEUi683As Decades fucked around with this message at 22:48 on Nov 19, 2013 |
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Nov 19, 2013 22:45
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DekeThornton posted:Not always. Hey just because Karelin hasn't met Bob Sapp yet that doesn't mean it can't happen.
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Nov 20, 2013 00:08
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We got this one new Judo guy in my bjj school. Had no idea what level he was so we were going slowly and deliberately through the ground portion of class. Then we got to the standing portion and woah nelly did I go for a ride. Good times. Thanks, Judo.
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Jan 8, 2014 18:37
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Anthony Pettis is one fighter who somewhat successfully pulls capoeira type stuff in mma. Spinning kicks where a hand touches the ground, things like that. But it says something about the techniques that it takes a guy who's arguably the most spectacular striker in the sport right now to even begin to make them work.
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Jan 20, 2014 00:04
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origami posted:You may want to read up on Lloyd Irvin If you do please don't read enough to learn that he's great without reading enough to learn that he's a rapist
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Jan 26, 2014 21:31
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Attention Euro kick punch goons - wondering if anyone has a gym to recommend in Bonn, Germany, or failing that maybe Cologne. My best friend recently tried a local kickboxing gym and was disappointed to find it made up of cardio folks flailing around without supervision. A gym like mine would be perfect, however it is all the way across the pond. It should be welcoming to all and willing to cater to the non-competing crowd, but at the same time should offer worthwhile technical instruction with a workout to go with it. My friend is a small inexperienced female, and so not looking for hardcore sparring etc any time soon, but she's still interested in learning at least the basics of the real deal. Knowing a bit but not a lot about both kickboxing and west Germany, the current plan is advising her to seek out dutch people. Any more specific guidance I can offer?
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Apr 16, 2014 21:19
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Mechafunkzilla posted:Based on everything we know from manuscripts on martial arts written hundreds of years ago, when hand-to-hand fighting was the default mode of combat, fighting techniques from "traditional" martial arts were much closer to what we see in modern boxing and wrestling than the crazy stances and unorthodox strikes you might associate with Shaolin Kung Fu. Not particularly calling bullshit on this as it's perfectly reasonable, but got a link or something? If there's hard evidence of what you're describing I'd be pretty curious to learn more.
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May 7, 2014 19:52
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ch3cooh posted:Situational awareness, talking, and a ccw (in that order) are the best combo for true self defense. One of the great things about learning martial arts is filling in that huge gulf in severity between talking and whipping out a deadly weapon. Bjj is probably the best at covering the full range from benign control up to maiming and killing. A gun's cool if you're in a life and death scenario with multiple and/ or armed attackers, and if you live in an situation that actually is extremely dangerous day to day then sure maybe it makes sense to pack heat. In a modern not-particularly-high-crime urban environment though for example I have a hard time picturing plausible scenarios where ccw would help anybody, rather carrying a gun is much more likely to get you in trouble in myriad ways. So it depends on your circumstances and on your personal concept of self defense. But I think self defense ideally entails being able to restrain a drunken acquaintance without having to shoot him in the face, ya know?
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May 8, 2014 18:35
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Is shadowboxing while jogging a real thing to do that makes sense or is it more for Hollywood training montages?
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Jun 8, 2014 22:16
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-Blackadder- posted:Thanks for the recommendations. I saw fuji mentioned on another forum as well so I'll pick up one of those. I'm also in need of a gi upgrade, but have the added complication of a near freakishly lanky (6'4" 145lbs) frame. Currently my starter gi stops about midway between my elbow and wrist. Now that I've got my blue belt and am thinking seriously about competition, and am also not completely broke at the moment, it's time to get my poo poo straight. A couple of the skinnier guys at my school use Lanky brand gis. Anyone have personal experience? I seem to remember Padilla & Sons being the goon brand of choice a year or two back. Anyone know whether they've got models suitable for draping on an adolescent tree shaped person like myself?
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Sep 11, 2014 21:35
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rrrrrrrrrrrt posted:Dang dude that is some serious lank. Mechafunkzilla posted:
Ligur posted:
ElMaligno posted:
I know, right? I don't really know what to tell y'all. I'm up towards 150 on a heavy day and the height's legit. I've lifted before, did starting strength for 6 to 8 months or so, and got up to maybe low 150s. But it inevitably meant less class, and I struggle to make it two or three times a week as it is, so it just kinda wasn't worth it. Now I focus on making class as much as I can and not worrying about it too much. My school's got a strength and conditioning class though it's not proper heavy lifting. I guess I'm very gradually filling out in the core and shoulders, whereas starting strength was more about my rear end. Ligur posted:AND THERE ARE EVEN SKINNIER GUYS THAN HE IS AT THE GYM? Didn't mean there was anyone skinnier, just the next most skinny guys. I've got a bit of muscle on me and am by no means skinnyfat. Don't feel particularly weak pound for pound and all in all get by okay. Kekekela posted:Haha what in the gently caress. I lock triangles up well but to finish they've gotta be perfect - locked deep, posture broken, calf across the neck, arm pulled to the side, angle turned, hooked under their leg, head pulled down - and then sometimes I'll still have a hard time. So how bout that gi??
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Sep 12, 2014 03:25
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A blue belt can't be in poo poo physical state either, quite the opposite. That's pretty awesome all in all.
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Xguard86 posted:I think my best fitting gi's are lucky gi but they're expensive so I hesitate to recommend them. Late, sorry, but thanks for this. My plan at the moment is to get some decent measurements taken and send them to Lanky as they offer recommendations. While I'm at it I think I'll write the other brands you mentioned as well and see whether they come back with anything. the JJ posted:On then, to the land of the would-be MILFs. Godspeed, buddy
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Sep 19, 2014 15:45
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Verisimilidude posted:Can anyone give me their ideas on traditional martial arts like kung fu/wing chun and their practicality? I was watching some kung fu people in New York and it seemed pretty hokey. I used to take a wing chun class in Brooklyn more legit/interesting than anything I've seen on YouTube and could hook you up if you'd like to give them a try. That said ultimately I switched to bjj/judo with a bit of Muay Thai and ultimately you probably should too.
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Sep 25, 2014 21:24
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I don't think there's an exhaustive streetfight database out there, but from what I've seen in person and on the web they tend to be a wild swing or two followed by both guys getting scared and grabbing onto each other for dear life. This is one reason Judo is cool.
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Sep 25, 2014 22:18
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Tawd posted:In that case Wing Chun's approach (from what I've seen of it) of getting past or deflecting your opponent's first offensive move and then getting real close in and attacking relentlessly might not be so bad? Or any other martial art for that matter? Sort of yeah, I do think wing chun when done right has some anti-grappling qualities lacked by, say, boxing. But it's limited and conditional on the way you train. In the school I came from we'd shoot in on each other's legs, but not actually follow through to the floor. That's something I think, but of course we'd have been better off following through with some actual takedowns. The other thing is the gi. I think it's pretty relevant to street fights, in that they often happen in jackets, and I think that if you dress a wing chun guy or a guy from any striking art really in a gi, basic gripfighting, sleeve control and the like, would shut them down pretty bad. One other thing kinda philosophically that I like about BJJ better than Wing Chun is that WC is highly dependent on not messing up. As long as the practitioner executes their techniques perfectly, I think it'd be tough to deal with. But ask what happens when you get grabbed or taken down and the answer is "too late, don't let that happen". BJJ is largely about learning how to survive in awful positions after you've hosed up, which in the heat of the moment is always a good possibility. Decades fucked around with this message at 23:25 on Sep 25, 2014 |
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Sep 25, 2014 23:17
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Mechafunkzilla posted:All this is completely inconsequential if you're not doing full-resistance sparring regularly. I'll take a guy who wrestled for a few years in high school in a fight over someone who's trained kung fu for 20 years but never had to defend a single leg from someone who knows what they're doing, 10 times out of 10. Agreed, that's more or less the line I ended up drawing. We used more physical resistance in some of the drills than you'd think, but they were just too structured and not live enough. I did the two side by side for a while but once I started to get the hang of grappling it felt both more effective and more fun. Decades fucked around with this message at 02:23 on Sep 26, 2014 |
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Sep 26, 2014 02:12
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e: nothing to see here
Decades fucked around with this message at 22:59 on Sep 26, 2014 |
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Sep 26, 2014 09:38
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Alder posted:Age: 23 For the past couple years I've gone to Williamsburg MMA, just one L stop away from your location, and I think it could be a great fit. It caters to all fitness and experience levels and I've trained alongside the full spectrum from professionals to moms. At the introductory level it's got a boxing/muay thai class, a bjj/judo/wrestling class, and a stength & conditioning/yoga based crosstraining class. Not a huge number of women as it's not the biggest school in general, but we've got a few key female regulars and a friendly welcoming atmosphere all around. There's plenty of great schools in NYC so shop around, but do take a look at us in your search. http://www.williamsburgmma.com/ Decades fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Oct 26, 2014 |
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Oct 26, 2014 00:16
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I've always been a little unclear on the reasoning behind the different rulesets for leglocks in gi and no gi. It's just too hard to defend heelhooks in a gi?
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Nov 3, 2014 20:25
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Let's say a person develops a little baby cold sore. No grappling at all? For how long after it's gone? Sanjay Gupta tells me that 80 to 90 percent of Americans have it already but def not looking to be a dick about it.
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Nov 4, 2014 00:47
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origami posted:I don't know how long cold sores last but you should not roll with one. I don't know much about Gupta but I don't think you should get medical knowledge from TV. Was kinda tongue in cheek about Gupta but I do think they're pretty common. Anyway, decided the same and stayed home watching Dean Lister instructionals on youtube
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Nov 4, 2014 08:06
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Bangkero posted:I would be more worried about you contracting other illnesses while rolling with an open sore that you can't cover up Thanks sounds like good advice Bangkero posted:ebola... Fun fact, we're two blocks away from The Gutter, where Dr. Craig Spencer did his ebowling, so hits closer to home than you'd think!
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Nov 4, 2014 17:22
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