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david_a
Apr 24, 2010




Megamarm

Rupert Buttermilk posted:

The level design is atrocious. I don't necessarily mean the layout, but the look of it all.

Why is everything 5 stories tall? Why?

I have always wondered about that. If it was originally a sequel to Wolf 3D, then why is it so loving tall?!

Because they could, probably. Gotta distinguish it from the Wolf 3D engine somehow

I’m guessing all the Wolf 3D II levels were scrapped anyway.

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david_a
Apr 24, 2010




Megamarm

Turin Turambar posted:

I don't know how id bungled Q2 enemies so much. There are too many too slow, too tanky enemies that just lob rockets and railguns and blasters at a distance. It encourages too much corner-peeking. Not only that, they exacerbate the issue by giving the player too much railgun ammo (once you reach the middle game). It's like they noticed the enemies were badly designed and needed too much corner peeking, and they 'solved' it by giving corner-peeking friendly ammo to the player, instead of changing the enemies.

david_a
Apr 24, 2010




Megamarm

Angryhead posted:

But still! The remaster work itself is really, really excellent - especially loving the waypoint thing (didn't even know to expect that there would be so much backtracking between levels - probably an engine limitation initially and they'd have wanted to make each "set" a single, real big level?) and all the niceties like the weapon wheel and whatnot.

I don’t know that they necessarily wanted giant levels. Level size limitations were pretty ingrained into everybody’s heads back then. I think hubs were more seen as a way to make the level progression feel less linear and provide a natural connection point between them. With all their previous games the levels were mostly made independently and the level order was chosen fairly late.

david_a
Apr 24, 2010




Megamarm
I’m dying inside thinking of Unreal getting a fresh coat of paint and some goodies thrown into a rerelease. gently caress you epic

david_a
Apr 24, 2010




Megamarm
Saying that the comics company made a Judge Dredd game is a bit misleading. Rebellion Developments (through its sister company Rebellion Publishing) bought 2000AD comics. Rebellion is probably most notable for making nearly all the AvP games.

david_a
Apr 24, 2010




Megamarm
Unfortunately I think all six of us are in this thread. However, so are some Nightdive folks!!! You guys might make upwards of $100 from this thread alone! :dance:

david_a
Apr 24, 2010




Megamarm
Friendly reminder that the Vore homing projectile speed was only reduced after it made Romero absolutely furious. Sandy’s initial speed was much higher

david_a
Apr 24, 2010




Megamarm

Rupert Buttermilk posted:

What are all of your favourite FPS maps? MP or SP, doesn't matter.

Kinda surprised at Quake E1M1. Is just nostalgia because it’s the first map?

Stuff that comes to mind for me:
Doom:
E1M5: Phobos Lab
E1M7: Computer Station

Unreal:
NyLeve's Falls - really just because of that first time you step out of the ship into that explosion of colors accompanied by a swell of the tracker music.

Chizra - Nali Water God
Objectively this is not a great level but I have tremendous nostalgia for it. I absolutely love the mysterious adventure vibe of the level with the crumbling temple ruins, wooden suspension bridges, lush foliage peaking out in places, and that gorgeous Unreal water.

david_a
Apr 24, 2010




Megamarm
I wonder if Nightdive will touch up the Dark Forces levels in any way. It was kind of shocking seeing videos of how barren some of those levels were. 320x200 hides a lot of sins but it’s really apparent at modern resolutions that a lot of rooms are literally big empty rectangles. Definitely a case where what I remembered doesn’t match reality.

david_a
Apr 24, 2010




Megamarm
Can you do motion aiming in Doom on the Deck?

On the Switch it’s a bit weird since there’s no vertical looking at all, but in something like Quake it does wonders for quickly fine tuning your aim. I wouldn’t say I’m super great at using it but Quake 1&2 are tolerable for me. I tried Doom 2016 and got destroyed in the very first arena fight a few minutes into the game (couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn in that one).

david_a
Apr 24, 2010




Megamarm

Rev. Melchisedech Howler posted:

I like the Q2 remaster with smoothing on, but more probably out of nostalgia for that shock of how good stuff looked when switching to that first 3DFX card. I didn't have a capable card for Q1, so I don't have the same warm fuzzy memories and texture smoothing remains off there.

The original glQuake kinda looked like rear end anyway. It had several missing features from software (overbrights, the underwater effect, etc) and cards of the day could barely run it so they defaulted to those hideous light coronas instead dynamic lights (although you could change that at least). There were some other half-working graphical effects like reflections and shadows you could enable as well.

david_a
Apr 24, 2010




Megamarm

ZShakespeare posted:

Hey, I saved up for what felt like ages to get a diamond monster 3d so everything could be blurry, and lens flarey. I remember having to recompile all the maps to get reflective and transparent surfaces.

lol yeah the water thing tripped me up when I revisited Quake a few years after I stopped playing it. Some of the water surfaces would work fine without re-vising the maps but most turned into rendering errors. It also blew my mind that the command for “previous weapon” didn’t exist. I had assumed my CD had the latest version of Quake, but no, there was a later patch that added that command. It’s not even an engine thing, that was all in QuakeC!

david_a
Apr 24, 2010




Megamarm

Rupert Buttermilk posted:

I'm hoping Romero isn't secretly a piece of poo poo.

We went over this a while back but Romero’s sketchiest behavior appears to be marrying that 18 year old Romanian teenager when he was 37.

david_a
Apr 24, 2010




Megamarm
Carmack bonded with his wife over a common interest in Ayn Rand’s beliefs, which are also superficially logical.

His appearance on The Joe Rogan Experience was also… not great. He seemed to really resist the idea of worker protections in the gaming industry. He made it by working 100 hour weeks, so why would you deny people that opportunity??? I don’t think he really comprehends that outside of indie games, a single developer on a modern game isn’t going to make much of a difference. And, of course, nobody was forcing Carmack to work those insane hours.

david_a
Apr 24, 2010




Megamarm
How the gently caress do you build a map like that and forget the door
0/10

david_a
Apr 24, 2010




Megamarm

John Murdoch posted:

I wonder how many Wolf3D levels exist in total, with all of those unofficial level packs included.

Less than you would think.

Some years ago when generative AI was starting to become a thing I tried using a GAN to generate Wolf 3D levels. I downloaded every level I could find.

I believe my dataset ended up being around 5,000 levels but that has some caveats:
- I filtered out the pure poo poo that I didn’t want it to train on
- I did not include modern TCs that used a different level format
- That number is also after augmentation (rotating & mirroring levels to increase the data set size)

There are way, way more Doom levels in existence than Wolf 3D levels. Doom was a much more popular game and it included support for user-made levels out of the box.

My generator didn’t work at all, by the way. I was learning everything about ML from scratch so I had no idea how to tune anything. While I was wrapping it up some people at an Italian university beat me to the idea but they used Doom instead. Exact same idea I was trying to do, but they have to normalize the Doom maps into a similar shape first. Every Wolf 3D map is 64x64 tiles so it’s a much better fit for this concept, although ultimately I think this GAN approach is awful for this (there just aren’t enough levels to train on, for one thing). Their results aren’t very impressive either.

david_a
Apr 24, 2010




Megamarm

Cream-of-Plenty posted:

Also it's been out for a few years, but I just noticed that Julianne Moore's dress in one of the Kingsman movies is something I really need more of in my life for reasons this thread might appreciate:



lol

david_a
Apr 24, 2010




Megamarm
I played a lot of the Wolf 3D shareware when I was little. The theme song was super catchy and I would often hum it at school and other places.

It was only decades later I learned the song is loving Horst-Wessel-Lied…

david_a
Apr 24, 2010




Megamarm

Rocket Pan posted:

[Zscript] is precompiled, I believe even into native x86. The issue is it's still not part of the actual executable so the scripts have to be called into/out of to run and fetch results, which has overheads. Plus zscript won't have 50 years worth of C machine code optimizations. This normally wouldn't be an issue (we use AngelScript for some Kex projects, notably Turok and Blood, and it works a similar way) but they also made zscript run basically the physics as well. It's doing way too much of the work, and that work is still the same as its old workload where it has >128bits worth of flags controlling branched behavior and such.

There is an adage somewhere that you should never write your own language. Zscript is this example.

Would Zscript benefit from running on an existing popular runtime like one of the JS engines? It would probably increase the size of the executable quite a bit but those have no end of effort put into making them fast.

david_a
Apr 24, 2010




Megamarm

Mordja posted:

wait what

Just to pile on here, map markers are not a GZDoom feature, they’re a Doom feature

david_a
Apr 24, 2010




Megamarm

Turin Turambar posted:

Confusingly, the name is super similar to the Doom sourceport called 'Helion' !!

I could have sworn there was an ancient ZDoom level set named Helion too but I couldn’t find anything with a quick search

Edit: I think I was remembering Herian 2 from 1999

david_a fucked around with this message at 02:06 on Nov 28, 2023

david_a
Apr 24, 2010




Megamarm

ExcessBLarg! posted:

Tom's maps attempted to be architecturally grounded--I guess--but that made them kind of boring. Like E2M2 is pretty novel, and I think MAP10 is a lot of fun too, but the rest generally fall short to me.
Someone on Doomworld did an elimination tournament a while back and somehow E2M2 ended up as the best Doom map

david_a
Apr 24, 2010




Megamarm

chocolateTHUNDER posted:

Imagine they somehow got the go-ahead to remaster Unreal?

That’s mean. I’m going to send you this months therapy bill

david_a
Apr 24, 2010




Megamarm
Nearly all of the Quake enemies are bullet sponges; that’s one of my main gripes compared to Doom.

Fun fact: Sandy originally made the vore projectiles faster than the player, but Romero got so infuriated he yelled at him successfully lobbied to get the speed lowered.

david_a
Apr 24, 2010




Megamarm

Volte posted:

The grenade launcher could have existed in the Doom engine. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the newer extension specs like MBF21 had enough flexibility to support it but I don't know enough about gameplay modding to know for sure.

A Quake-style grenade launcher was in the demo WAD for the original MBF in 1998

david_a
Apr 24, 2010




Megamarm
Those floating exploding orbs in Scourge of Armagon are 100x worse than the Spawns. Absolute bullshit; who the gently caress thought that was a fun enemy to add

“The player will certainly enjoy randomly dying because a nearly silent floating enemy exploded in their back! I am a brilliant game designer”
- some absolute clown Hipnotic employee after huffing rubber cement in his car during lunch, probably

Why yes I just ragequit after dying for the second time on the same level to a new and excitingly placed orb

david_a
Apr 24, 2010




Megamarm

anilEhilated posted:

You're fine as long as it's not the main menu theme.

I’ve told this story before but that was my favorite tune. I would hum it in school and everything.

Only decades later I learn it’s the loving Nazi Party theme song

david_a
Apr 24, 2010




Megamarm
Dennis Hopper, Stephanie Seymour, and Grace Jones were in Hell: A Cyberpunk Thriller in 1994

david_a
Apr 24, 2010




Megamarm
I’ve encountered the Space Orb twice.

One of my college friends collected weird hardware. Bow down peons, for I have played Descent with a 90s VR headset using a SpaceOrb :smug: … for about 5 minutes at a time because holy poo poo the eye strain

At the time I was like “oh cool, one of those old VR headsets.” It was less than a decade old :whitewater:

The second time was inexplicably at an art museum. No, it wasn’t the exhibit, but somebody had made an “interactive art gallery” with a lovely amateurish 3D engine and controlled with a SpaceOrb of all things.

At that point I was mostly surprised that the drat thing worked on Windows 7

david_a
Apr 24, 2010




Megamarm

Hasturtium posted:

An underslung grenade launcher for a slightly faster-firing chaingun is change I’d like to see in the world. What would be the best way to create such a thing that’d work across a wide range of source ports?

There isn’t.

You can easily speed up the chaingun with a simple Dehacked patch that should work everywhere, but adding a grenade launcher isn’t possible. If you control the maps you could do it Aliens TC style where the rocket launcher pickup was always on top of the chaingun and the sprites looked the same, but they’re still two separate weapons. There are port-specific ways it can be done for GZDoom and probably 1-2 others.

david_a
Apr 24, 2010




Megamarm

Brolander posted:

One thing I've done lately is when playing freelook is I will set it back to normal for a tough BFG section, as looking freely seems to completely gently caress that gun up.

Freelook was a giant issue for multiplayer when the first source ports were made. Initially features like this were shoved in with absolutely no consideration of how it changed gameplay. Turns out the being able to shoot the BFG ball & rockets at players feet massively changed the balance.

Don’t most multiplayer ports force the BFG to be completely horizontal; IE you can’t change the vertical angle of the shot?

david_a
Apr 24, 2010




Megamarm

The 7th Guest posted:

where the magic carpet fans at??? let's hear it for the boys

Hoping for that Night Dive magic :pray:

david_a
Apr 24, 2010




Megamarm
Speaking of performance, did that Switch patch for Dark Forces ever get released?

david_a
Apr 24, 2010




Megamarm
Psycho Circus is competently made but the whole Todd McFarlane aesthetic plus how dreadfully seriously it takes the lame story does no favors to the already bland gameplay.

david_a
Apr 24, 2010




Megamarm

Volte posted:

When I was a kid I remember asking my dad permission to download Memento Mori II because it was like 4MB and that was going to tie up the phone line for 30 minutes

Probably a lot longer than that if it was 4MB; I remember downloading the Quake shareware on a modem was perilous since it was a huge 8MB or something like that and it tied up the phone for hours

david_a
Apr 24, 2010




Megamarm
Try out Return of the Triad. It’s a ZDoom mod. It feels like what RoTT should have been if they had used a real engine.

david_a
Apr 24, 2010




Megamarm

Tim Thomas posted:

come to think of it - was doom the first legit fps where there was still a point to using most of your weapons after finding new ones

Depends on whether you consider Ultima Underworld to be a legit FPS

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david_a
Apr 24, 2010




Megamarm

SeANMcBAY posted:

Not too impressed with Dark Forces Remastered. The midi music is unbearable to listen to and the default controls are bad on Switch.

There’s some weird timing thing with the music; if you change it to the OPL3 version it sounds better (no idea why it isn’t the default).

I don’t have any complaints with the controls though :confused:

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