The EV anticipation / speculation / discussion electrothread.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Automotive Insanity > The EV anticipation / speculation / discussion electrothread.

«‹›2 »

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Colonel Sanders posted:

In most of Europe fuel taxes make up something like 50-60% of the final price, so I for example pay like $60-70/month in taxes on gas alone. Of course they can raise taxes on electricity, but
a) that would have to be quite a large increase to make up for the lost revenue, so
b) car-less people would loving freak out
c) owners of gas powered people would loving freak out

They can raise taxes on solar panels but
a) this will discourage adoption of renewable energy
b) car-less people would loving freak out
c) owners of gas powered people would loving freak out

They can raise income taxes, but... (you see the pattern)

# ¿ Jan 28, 2012 00:36

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ Apr 29, 2024 10:44

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

^^^
EVs are heavy as poo poo (the Leaf weighs as much as a 5 series, IIRC) so I'm not too optimistic about handling. I don't think it's going to be terrible, necessarily, but I doubt it would be comparable to the 5 series or the Panamera, say.

As for the EV pricing, I actually change my mind recently. This image that was posted somewhere here before demonstrates why exactly:

Nissan 370z:

If they can keep the price from ballooning in a similar fashion outside US by getting tariff/duty exceptions or whatever, the Model S would sell like loving hot cakes here. As you can probably imagine based on the above image, a poverty spec 5 series is exactly $50 grand here (CZ), as is the 3 series once you add a few toys. A loaded Model S would be amazing if it was in a similar range. Of course this is still mainly a rich-guy toy, and regular people are happy to have 10 year old econoboxes, but within this segment high-end EVs could be extremely competitive.

Edit: obviously this doesn't make it more affordable for you guys, but it could be extremely important for Tesla and EVs in general.

Edit 2: I was probably going by the E60 weights which were within 10kg or so. Given the size and class differences, I think the point still mostly stands

mobby_6kl fucked around with this message at 21:33 on Feb 1, 2012

# ¿ Feb 1, 2012 19:59

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

The Volt leaves a huge amount of capacity in the batteries when starting the ICE exactly for this reason. Might be something like 1/3 even? I don't think it would make a big difference over the constant charging/discharging in a regular hybrid.

I've sat in the (back of) the Volt in Geneva, and it was pretty decent, huge amount of space (compared to my MX-5). The dash/center console looked funny. The Ampera might have a better chance with the crazy gas prices here than the Volt does in the US, but it still hangs on pricing - if it's like �50k then the people dropping that much cash for a new car aren't going to be the ones most concerned about fuel efficiency.

# ¿ Mar 25, 2012 17:13

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Edmunds got a Model S for their long term fleet. I always quite enjoy reading these (especially the more weird cars like the old Porsches, Ferraris, or Miatas) so this could be a good source for real-life experiences and issues. There's one already - the huge touchscreen doesn't work

http://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-s/2012/long-term-road-test/

# ¿ Feb 25, 2013 21:08

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

So was the battery swap capability built in to all Model S cars, or is that a new addition? I seems like the ability to quickly exchange batteries is something that needs to be designed for (think Apple vs other phones). Having them in one layer in the floor would certainly help, but I'd assume there is more to it than that.

# ¿ Jun 18, 2013 22:06

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Beside finding the fastest pump, apparently they also found the most expensive one (at least, I thought gas was a bit cheaper than that in the US) as well as a car with biggest tank, not to mention one that could have at least double, if not triple, the range on that tank. A free supercharge in 30 minutes after hours of driving also sounds like a better deal to me, but then I'm too poor for a Model S so that don't matter.

Anyway, I certainly don't mean to poo poo on this, the swap was extremely impressive and I can think of many scenarios where it would be preferable to a slow charge. I'm also curious how things are going to develop when Tesla and other companies start to sell a whole bunch of different, and mostly incompatible models.

# ¿ Jun 22, 2013 16:15

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Also apparently they're only in the black because they're selling ZEV credits or some poo poo to the tune of almost $70 mil, or 12% of revenue. Still, they're obviously on the right track.
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/05/analysis-tesla-q1-2013-results/

# ¿ Aug 8, 2013 21:04

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

The main issue with battery swapping is IMO the compatibility -- maybe the Model S and X could share the batteries, but a cheaper/smaller Tesla or the new roadster would probably need different batteries. And then there are other manufacturers...

# ¿ Nov 21, 2013 11:25

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Tesla actually "solved" this by requiring you to pick up your original battery on the way back, otherwise you'd be charged the value differential. That could be calculated based on the number of charge cycles or its age, or just whatever they want. Of course, this creates another problem, namely that you have to drive back the same way to pick up your battery...

# ¿ Nov 21, 2013 13:22

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

That, and everyone is stupid rich from all the oil&gas money :ssh:

# ¿ Jan 27, 2014 19:34

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Tesla is pretty drat impressive for being a car startup that's actually making cars that aren't $1mil supercards and is moving further downmarket. How many of those have there been in recent memory?

# ¿ Jan 15, 2015 17:11

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

There's no way they hooked this up to the front wheels, is there? Because that would be amazing.

# ¿ Aug 4, 2015 16:12

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

ReelBigLizard posted:

On the one hand

On the other hand

# ¿ Aug 7, 2015 14:14

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Wasn't the Model X supposed to be more affordable? Like not cheap-cheap, but a level lower and more mass-market than the S. Still with the love of SUVs/Crossovers they'll probably sell a shitload of these judging by Porsche's sedan:suv ratio

# ¿ Sep 3, 2015 09:59

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Yeah I'm aware of the Model 3 of course, but I distinctly remember Model X being talked about as supposedly being somewhat more affordable than the S back before the 3 was announced. Or maybe not. Whatever.

# ¿ Sep 3, 2015 17:07

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

At least Apple's dream of having one clicky wheel to control everything would make sense now.

# ¿ Sep 25, 2015 10:39

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

spandexcajun posted:

Yeah, I was thinking of an open roof racks, very common in Colorado.

I guess I'll never understand why folks are worried about getting snow and ice on skis, but it's all good I think we agree in principle the Model X would be a fantastic winter resort vehicle. I have no idea why I am so vested in convincing Norther Europeans to buy crazy expensive E-SUVs, I really have drank the Tesla coolaid!

Falcon doors rule, ICE vehicles drool.

Yess finally.

# ¿ Oct 2, 2015 07:59

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

In a lot of places, though it varies depending on the month, location (climate) and isn't always the case: https://www.entsoe.eu/db-query/consumption/mhlv-all-countries-every-3rd-wednesday-of-a-specific-year

# ¿ Feb 6, 2016 18:14

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Saukkis posted:

Related to the discussion about autobot crashes, the report published by University of Michigan is UMTRI-2015-34. 11 accidents for a vehicle in autonomous mode, none of them the fault of the robotcar. In three quarters of the cases the robotcar was stopped or driving at 5 MPH or less. Same portion of the crashes were rear-endings, one fifths sideswipes.

I suspect one reason for the large number of rear-endings is that robotcars are good at avoiding those themselves. So in a situation where a human driver would end up rear-ending someone and the driver behind them just might manage to stop in time, the robotcar will manage to stop the car safely and end up rear-ended instead.

Also robocars (at least the google ones) usually drive at below the flow of traffic speed, like IIRC they're limited to 30 or something, so on roads with higher limits and even higher traffic flow speeds, they could catch inattentive drivers off-guard.

# ¿ Feb 28, 2016 11:13

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Maybe they could integrate an OLED display directly into the glass:

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

Every Tesla has had a stupid design gimmick that has needlessly complicated production and not created any benefits for the end user of the car.

Model S: Retarded door handles
Model X: Retarded door design
Model 3: Retarded roof design

So Tesla is the Seiko of cars, basically?

# ¿ Apr 4, 2016 16:29

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Are there going to be Tesla :filez:

that unlock various features now?

# ¿ Apr 4, 2016 21:11

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

So how do you drive down a mountain then without cooking the brakes?

# ¿ Apr 13, 2016 14:25

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

^^^
Niceee

Ola posted:

Bulkier and more expensive hardware is one factor, designed by Californians is another. There are many details that Tesla has been criticized for in proper winter conditions. But to be fair with them, a lot of cars that should know better, BMW and VAG in particular, also have cool quirks or fancy features which turn out to be liabilities below freezing.

Anything specific? It does get pretty cold in Germany and they all seem to be testing their cars in the frozen wastelands of Sweden so it seems like they should know better.

# ¿ Apr 14, 2016 15:01

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Ola posted:

Even a rabid fanboy like me has to admit that. Their fundamental drivetrain is very reliable, but all the added complexity drags it down. Not to mention all the issues with basic car stuff like making a sunroof or taillight casing waterproof. And OF COURSE the stupid falcon doors on the Model X weren't going to amazingly sense their surroundings perfectly.

This is from a page back but just wanted to comment on this:

quote:

February:
If you're keeping score, our Model S is now on its third drive unit: the one that came with the car, the one that was replaced in November, and this latest one. And that wasn't the only thing that was replaced on this service visit.
July:
The technician found the milling sound coming from inside the drive unit. The solution was to install a new one. When the replacement unit came in, the logic connector was split. Another had to be ordered.
Bonus crap:

Coolant System- Check and Fill:
We didn't ask for this one, so I'm guessing it was part of the process to install the drive unit. The technician performed an air purge in the cooling system.

Ride Height Sensor:
The ride height sensor on the right rear of the car needed replacement. They installed the new part and said the car should be a bit quieter. I hadn't noticed, but I'm glad they caught it.

Bluetooth Error:
Tesla ran a diagnostic on the system and paired an Apple and an Android phone. Everything checked out. Dan's hard reset must have taken care of this bug.

Tire Rotation:
This was included in the courtesy inspection. We even got a free alignment as a bonus. An alignment is required every time the drive unit is replaced, since the techs have to take off the car's rear subframe for the swap.

Side Motor Mount:
During the installation of the new drive unit, the technician noticed that the side motor mount had a small crack. Tesla installed a new side motor mount.

Active Louver:
The active louvers on the Model S regulate airflow to the radiator. Tesla performed a thermal test and found that the center louver was faulty. The techs installed a new center louver.

Concern: Front lower control arm washer installation
Correction: Inspect knuckle/ball joint surfaces, install four front lower control arm washers.

Concern: Front bumper carrier bolt replacement
Correction: Replace front bumper carrier bolts and washers

Concern: New bolt for rear camber correction
Correction: Installed rear upper camber adjustment bolts per proactive repair.

because

that's at least four "drive units" and a battery replaced in 30k miles, and it's hardly unique apparently. Lots of other stuff is broken too, though everything so covered by the warranty of course.

http://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-s/2013/long-term-road-test/2013-tesla-model-s-drive-unit-iv-the-milling.html2

# ¿ Jun 3, 2016 12:27

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Has the Model S Pikes Peak run been posted here yet? It's decently quick but has to be the most boring video of its kind: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5t4DNvbNqs

# ¿ Jul 6, 2016 19:37

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Wrong thread, sorry!

But just to provide some content, Richard Hammond just crashed one of these

It's a Rimac Concept One, which is a Croatian supercar and is nothing like a Yugo. At least it wasn't until the hamster got to it:

mobby_6kl fucked around with this message at 00:36 on Jun 11, 2017

# ¿ Jun 11, 2017 00:30

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Many cars have central gauges so I'd assume this one would change to show a speedometer when in motion. Still pretty terrible IMO.

# ¿ Jun 13, 2017 13:53

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

They're probably aim the vent electronically by using machine vision to locate your fat head in 3d space

# ¿ Jun 13, 2017 17:50

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

bull3964 posted:

Gas tax revenue needs to be reclaimed somewhere. It's inevitable.

It was only a matter of time before governments stopped subsidizing and started taxing the EVs more. In the EU at least taxes make up ~50% of total fuel price at the pump so this revenue disappearing would leave a huge hole in the budgets.

# ¿ Jun 27, 2017 16:24

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Well I can do this with a 15 year old gas car so that's hardly a huge win. Not buying gas is great as long as you don't have to figure out how to get the car charged on the street, at that point a 5 minute pitstop every couple of weeks is way preferable. Then there are the long trips too (at which point stopping for an hour to recharge suddenly becomes a good thing).

Electrics are clearly still in the early adopters phase in that they're more expensive and/or less convenient in many cases than ICEs. But there's no doubt that they'll get there very soon, so reading stuff like France planning to ban pure gas/diesel cars by 2040 is funny because by then 90% of regular cars would be electric either way. So chill out, people will "get" it.

# ¿ Jul 7, 2017 14:51

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Ola posted:

Which one? I can't remember any car with standby instruments or controls. If something fails, it fails and you pull over or deal with it, it's not a transoceanic airliner. The only exception is split brake circuits which is legally required so Teslas have them as well. And redundant brake circuits don't cover all failure modes, as I found out in a Ford Escort once.

That probably referred to poo poo like having radio or navigation info both on the central ipad and in the regular gauge cluster. Otherwise yeah, not much redundancy. The point is the ipad isn't needed for speed or tach.

Michael Scott posted:

BTW per Elektrek here's a shot of the speedometer in a prototype:

That's horrific. Do you change gears by sliding the labels? How about blinkers? Also lol at the blank map.

# ¿ Jul 24, 2017 18:38

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Ola posted:

Not the same thing. The current app talks to Tesla's servers, which again talks to the car. This obviously requires either cell data or WiFi for both the car and the phone. But if used as a key, the phone will have to talk directly to the car somehow. A bit dumb. What if your phone runs out of power with the charger inside the car?

I think there's also a backup keycard you can keep in the wallet or something.

# ¿ Jul 29, 2017 20:49

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

There are quite a few of those here, though mostly as Skoda City Go. I haven't driven one by my colleague used to have one and I got a ride once. It felt pretty gutless and cramped in the back, but the front seats were ok for a tiny shitbox I guess. Once you go above the complete poverty spec it isn't that cheap either, so unless you absolutely must have a tiny car, I didn't see a reason to get it over a few year old larger car.

# ¿ Aug 13, 2017 17:23

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

McPhearson posted:

Honda Urban EV Concept!

I see what they were going for, but man, that is not an attractive car.

This is always true with concepts, but especially here on a tiny car the enormous wheels really make it look ridiculous.

# ¿ Sep 12, 2017 18:05

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Where exactly are you looking? There seem to be quite a few available for under 15k and 100k miles: https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/...ay=KW&scopeId=C

# ¿ Sep 19, 2017 09:07