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Zonekeeper
Oct 27, 2007



suicidesteve posted:

In a time of terrible creatures, one stood miles above the rest. His name? Monger.

Spiritmonger.

Dude's the main reason I eventually plan on building a Golgari commander deck. The other reason being shiny Russian Vhati-il Dal.


This guy knows. :whatup:

Jumping on the 'Monger train. It was the first multicolor card I ever saw after getting introduced to the game, and he holds a special place in my heart.

I know the color changing thing isn't exactly a green ability anymore (I'm not sure it ever was), but I think he's right at the power level of a good Mythic Rare. I want to see him get reprinted so I can wreck Standard with him, color pie be damned. :getin:

I guess Doubling Season and Verdant Force are tied for my secondary pet cards. I couldn't imagine playing one without the other.

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Zonekeeper
Oct 27, 2007



Korak posted:

Is there a card similar to Sensei Divining Top that is legal in modern?

Crystal Ball is sort of a "fixed" Top. No draw, though.

Zonekeeper
Oct 27, 2007



vOv posted:

On a related note, it's amazing how much better the new frame/border makes Wrath of God look:



7th edition's whole gimmick was that every single card in it had new art, and almost every single card looked like utter poo poo. Wrath was one of the few good ones from that set.

Zonekeeper
Oct 27, 2007



Korak posted:

:lol: Conspiracy code broken in less than a hour. I give them credit for trying.

While I'm happy to see this new set, haven't people tried this before and it didn't work out well? I mean yes this is designed from the ground up to work in a multiplayer setting but it seems too commandery in a bad way.

At the very least people who cube will be all over this poo poo - especially the cards that mess with the draft itself. Plus there's always the odd chance that the set has Legacy playables in it.

Zonekeeper
Oct 27, 2007



whydirt posted:

Only the one that was actually a creature at the time you cast Bile Blight. OTOH, I believe Detention Sphere would exile both.

Bile Blight's text:
Target creature and all other creatures with the same name as that creature get -3/-3 until end of turn.

The bestowed one wouldn't be a creature at the time the Bile Blight resolved, so it doesn't get the -3/-3. It'll become a creature after Bile Blight resolves and dodge the -3/-3 effect.

Zonekeeper
Oct 27, 2007



I've resigned myself to the fact that the reserve list policy isn't changing, so I'm not going to beat that dead horse. Modern has no such limit, so they need to take advantage of that and prevent Modern from becoming just as expensive as Legacy. I think converting Modern Masters to a constantly in-print set similar to a core set is the way to go. A modern set printed like a Core Set would ensure that an awesome limited environment could thrive year-round and they could keep prices of certain cards from growing out of control by keeping them in print. The staples need this the most, as they make up most of the barrier to entry. They may not need to go as far as keeping fetches in print 5 years in a row like the checklands, but increasing the number of staples in circulation should be a priority to keep the barrier to entry down.

Zonekeeper
Oct 27, 2007



Serperoth posted:

I love the old border, but poo poo-brown artifacts suck. Although I'll admit I like the Judge promos of them, such as that one sword (Fire and Ice I think?), they're so... Retro? Not sure what I'm looking for.

And I loved what they did with the timeshifted cards, printing cards in the old frame with new wording/mechanics. It really was an interesting idea, and I'd wish they did more of it.

Newer printings of the old frame are so crisp and good looking. The Time Spiral timeshifted cards with the old frames look so good compared to cards from older sets.

That being said, I have to admit that the new frame is a hell of a lot more readable from a distance. I've always felt that the Planar Chaos timeshifted frames struck the best balance between "new frame design" and "old frame feel". The colors and background patterns are much closer to the old frames on those.

Zonekeeper
Oct 27, 2007



Korak posted:

MaRo hasn't said that I don't think. He's said that WotC knows they need to be reprinted and that it needs to be the right environment. Right now fetchlands in Standard wouldn't do much other than allow people to possibly play less lands and slightly more support for 3 color decks. There's no fetching for duals and that's really when the environment gets to a place they don't seem to like enabling.

edit: I should say that I don't think they're doing fetchlands this year. It's just that the fact they're building Huey from a mechanics standpoint first is one of the few things MaRo said is the only way they'd do fetchlands.

Much like we didn't see Shockland reprints until Return to Ravnica, I would hazard a guess that we won't see Fetchlands again until a return to Zendikar and its "lands matter" theme.

Zonekeeper
Oct 27, 2007



jassi007 posted:

I understand what you mean a card that says "destroy target creature" is a basic concept most games that have cards like that will contain. I looked up wowtcg, and the card there was a warrior card Vanquish cost 4. The color mimicry and the descriptions of the colors matching so closely, in addition to cards in the specific colors mimicing effects is what makes it over the top.

A card like murder will certainly be in each game, but it won't always be 1 + black + black The same game also won't also necessarily have the nature color be green and have a card that costs one green resource that name is "Adjective" Growth that gives a creature +power and + toughness until the end of turn.

There are logical effects for card games, and then there is straight copying cards.

This article is pretty good, from an actual lawyer that plays MTG. http://www.quietspeculation.com/2014/05/understanding-the-wizards-v-hex-lawsuit-in-plain-english/

One point he makes is a case that sets precedent that specific features/mechanics by themselves aren't infringing that if you combine them all together and you get a decidedly similar product, then it is infringing. I think this is where the point about a destroy target creature card goes. The mechanic makes sense. But also copying the resource cost and putting it in a color/faction/team that clearly mimics Magic's color pie is to many pieces together to not be infringing.

I get where you're coming from, but isn't casting cost/color requirement more of a balance thing? Are you suggesting that Hex's developers should give Murder a new cost/color (and change the card's balance and place in the metagame) simply to make it less identical to the MTG equivalent?

Zonekeeper
Oct 27, 2007



Attorney at Funk posted:

That's interesting. It also suggests a certain strategic commutability between the painlands and whatever they're putting in Khans, meaning they probably won't ETB tapped. Which is good, since a year where 80% of the duals come into play tapped would be terrible.

It could be that the Khans allied cycle will be similar to the painlands but different. Maybe we'll see the Grove of the Burnwillows cycle finally get printed. (At bare minimum it seems on-theme for a land formerly infested by dragons to have an everburning forest.)

Zonekeeper
Oct 27, 2007



TheKingofSprings posted:

It's 5 colour, you're getting into Exodia levels of bullshit just putting the colours together and getting the sliver to cast.

In fact, just print sliver Exodia.

Thanks to Gemhide and Manaweft, generating 5 colors isn't too difficult in a sliver deck. Especially if you can get out Sliver Legion which has a built in sliver tutor (and should almost always be your commander).

I run SliverEDH.dec and the first thing I usually fetch from the deck is Crystalline Sliver, who gives my slivers shroud for a measly WU. Indestructible at 5cc is excellent, but I'd have been more excited for a sliver that granted Hexproof. (It will never happen.) One of the checks on the deck's power is that Equipment/Auras are difficult to run, limiting your voltron shenanigans to casting more slivers. I'd love to be able to run Sunforger and cast All The Instants straight out of my deck.

(The other check on the deck's power is that everyone guns for you the moment you reveal what deck you're playing. :v:)

Zonekeeper
Oct 27, 2007



Best play at my prerelease today was a guy killing a Siege Dragon by Shrapnel Blasting an Ensoul Artifact'd Hot Soup. Dude dumped a walking pot of soup on a dragon and the soup won.:allears:

Zonekeeper
Oct 27, 2007



Would it be better to wait until rotation to buy shocklands, or should I go ahead and complete my playsets now? They seem kind of low at the moment, but I'm not sure which direction they're expected to go in October.

Zonekeeper
Oct 27, 2007



Madmarker posted:

I didnt see that argument, and I would agree that Hamster would be black since they are rodents. I also wouldn't disagree that insects are more of Green's thing than Black's. Deathtouch is relatively shared, but has moved more toward black over time. But 1/1 fliers are definitely not in Green's slice of the color pie. It is in black's however.

It is a clear and unnecessary violation of the color pie to print these cards in green when they could be printed, unaltered, as black cards and make more sense mechanically and relative to the color pie.



I find it hilarious that spiders of all goddamned things are the go-to iconic green invertebrate (to the point that they have a near-monopoly on green's Reach keyword) but wasps are a step too far and are the ones that belong in the color that contains black cats, skeletons, and witches.

Zonekeeper
Oct 27, 2007



Madmarker posted:

Creature type isn't why Hornet Queen/Nest shouldn't be in green. The creature type works equally well in either color. What doesn't belong in Green is 1/1 fliers. Thats really the gist of it, green should not have access to flying creatures. It doesn't fit greens mechanics or motif. Yes its a cool card, I enjoy the design on both Hornet Nest/Queen but the G's in its cost should have been Bee's

I agree with you, I was just noting how absurd the argument was in terms of creature types. It's still kind of true - you can't really print non-flying wasps, so they don't really work "equally well in either color" if you completely bar green from having fliers altogether.

Personally, I think the card concept is fine, but it would have been more 'green' if they did the exact same thing with 1/1 reach/deathtouch spider tokens instead of the hornets. (I like to imagine a 'fixed' Hornet Queen as one of those spiders that carries its young around on its back.)

Zonekeeper
Oct 27, 2007



Elyv posted:

5) Keep an eye on your possessions
A good Modern deck is worth somewhere between several hundred to possibly over a thousand dollars that is difficult to trace and should be treated that way. I've personally never had magical cards stolen, but I have friends who have and it sucks.

As loving dorky as they are, a fanny pack seems like it would be your friend here. Keeping your cards in a pouch that's strapped to your waist at all times seems like a better way to keep track of them than putting them in an easily lost/stolen backpack or messenger bag.

Zonekeeper
Oct 27, 2007



Spiderdrake posted:

It was never that common an ability to begin with.

What are you talking about? It was so common that it had its own pseudo-keyword in "Bury". The two most iconic creature destruction spells (Wrath of God and Terror) both had the no regeneration rider and were in print constantly alongside spells like Incinerate and others for years until they started phasing it out with NWO in order to make regeneration a useful ability.

Zonekeeper
Oct 27, 2007



GonSmithe posted:

If you give something the "Whenever [x] deals damage..." trigger (through Stir the Pride, say), are at 10 life but taking 11 damage, and you would gain 10 life off the trigger, you die with the trigger on the stack.
With Lifelink, the damage is all dealt and you gain it at the same time.

Related to Lifelink chat, the old "When this creature deals damage..." wording was actually briefly keyworded as lifelink when 10th edition was released, but they reverted it and made it a separate ability when they changed the damage rules with Magic 2010. Luckily only one card with the old ability was reprinted with Lifelink in that brief window: Loxodon Warhammer. Since Wizards goes off of the latest printing when figuring out functionality changes due to rules updates, it's the only card with the old ability that has been errata'd to have the Lifelink keyword.

Zonekeeper
Oct 27, 2007



I love Devotion as a mechanic and think it's the perfect mechanic to allow monocolor to compete in multicolor dominated formats. Plus the flavor of cards that reward you for sticking to a single color is great. I'd like to see what direction they could take it if they made it evergreen. (Plus if it's evergreen we could possibly see Devotion to Phyrexia in the future. :swoon:)

Zonekeeper
Oct 27, 2007



mcmagic posted:

Nah, I would bet a lot that it's in MM2, though not sure how much that would help on the price.

After seeing the effect MM1 had on chase rare prices (stayed roughly the same or went up in some cases), hopefully they won't be as gun-shy with the print run when MM2 rolls around.

Zonekeeper
Oct 27, 2007



Northjayhawk posted:

Calling it now, I bet some morph cards will be non-creature. I think thats an unexplored space, if it flips its some instant that goes off or its an enchantment.

Future Sight had noncreature morph cards as Future Shifts. Lumithread Field (enchantment), Whetwheel (Artifact), and Zoetic Cavern (land).

Edit: Beaten. drat this thread is moving fast

Zonekeeper
Oct 27, 2007



Zorak posted:

The thing is that Time Spiral block actively drove people away from the game for being too complex and incomprehensible for non-entrenched players

I can't possibly imagine why WOTC would consider that a bad idea!!

My introduction to the game in 2004 was in a school club that had a gigantic mess of cards from every era of the game for club use. Because of this, I was familiar with most of the mechanics going in. Time Spiral remains my favorite block to this day, and I wouldn't consider myself "entrenched" after only (at the time) 2 years of very limited casual play. I knew enough to be able to enjoy the nostalgia aspect and recognize the time and color shifted cards, and that was enough for me.

Someone starting from scratch wouldn't have had that kind of introduction to old mechanics and cards and probably would have been overwhelmed, so I definitely understand why it is considered a failure. At bare minimum, it had way too many mechanics coexisting in the same block. Add in the multitude of references to old cards that new players simply wouldn't get and you have new players that are confused and don't "get" 80% of the cards in the set.

Zonekeeper
Oct 27, 2007



Molybdenum posted:

Jaya or bust

Yeah, this is the correct answer. Her proto-planswalker creature card from Time Spiral doesn't count.

Zonekeeper
Oct 27, 2007



I hope some company decides to print sleeves that act as proper Morph creatures. Something like this (which I threw together in a card maker last year):

Zonekeeper
Oct 27, 2007



Oraculum Animi posted:

What company allows you to print sleeves? What kind of sleeves do you use? Is there a link you can post?

I haven't actually gotten this printed, I just threw the image together. No clue what company makes custom sleeves.

Zonekeeper
Oct 27, 2007



C-Euro posted:

My store does proxy Modern on Mondays but takes one Monday a month to do proxy Legacy, if this month's Legacy wasn't tomorrow I'd definitely slap it together and take it.

E: Just realized Helm with Leyline of the Void in play mills their entire library :shepface:

Even better, it mills to exile. Singleton Emrakuls won't save them and Dredge/Breakfast Burrito don't get any benefit from it.

Zonekeeper
Oct 27, 2007



Snacksmaniac posted:

I wonder what MSRP will be on this.

It contains the first 4 duel deck sets, which ran at $20 each MSRP. That would make $80 the baseline, but I can't see them selling something that expensive in non-specialty stores. Duel Decks are usually considered a casual product and are typically available in mass-retail stores like Walmart/Target, where the most expensive Magic thing you usually see is fat packs/Commander/clash packs at $30.

Zonekeeper
Oct 27, 2007



Xaerael posted:

I've speculated this elsewhere, I reckon modern is on the chopping block due to it getting too close to being as expensive as legacy to get in to for newbies, and there will be a new "modern" using the new border in 3-4 year's time once enough blocks have been released.

The whole reason modern was created was so that Wizards had an eternal format they could support with reprints, so I highly doubt they will make yet another one. The only real misstep they've made is that they seem a bit gunshy when it comes to mass reprints. Modern Masters should have gotten a much, much larger print run than it did and it should have included more money cards than it did.

Zonekeeper
Oct 27, 2007



jassi007 posted:

The msrp pack price had nothing to do with it. Most stores sold for double msrp instantly. That is beyond wizards control. The only way to print t power without price spiked is to print more of it. I expect like quadruple the product for mm2 if not more

I agree with Xaerael, though. Treat it like a core set that gets changed up every year or two and you depress the prices in a predictable way and keep things available. Plus it would support year-round limited - the worst part about MM's low print run was that people didn't get to play its excellent limited format more than once or twice.

Zonekeeper
Oct 27, 2007



jassi007 posted:

I agree with you but they do say that they do lower power levels in some places to raise them in others, to avoid having to power creep. I think Theros block powered up things that just don't really impact modern much. Nykthos is a powerful card, it just doesn't do much for a format where 3 color is the norm. Stormbreath dragon is powerful, he just does jack as a 5 drop in modern that can't effectively be cast and isn't good enough to make it to a reanimator/big mana kind of strategy. One thing I've come to realize, and this might just be me being slow, is block mechanics are almost never powerful enough to make any impact on non-rotating formats. Eidolon of the Great Revel is a card that made an impact. He has nothing to do with the block mechanic, other than being an enchantment which to modern/legacy isn't relavent. I don't want to debate about how burn isn't good, but burn in modern/legacy will play Eidolon as a 2-4 of, he is that good in that deck. Just because Theros didn't produce a new pod/twin/jund/affinity card doesn't mean it hasn't done things. It hasn't done a lot, most of its power cards just aren't where people wanted them to be.

The most disappointing part is that they came out with some new mechanics that have a lot of potential, but didn't go far enough with them to affect the eternal formats. The biggest one I wanted to see was a bestow creature with a lower bestow cost than its casting cost or that granted something other than the base creature's features. A Rancor variant would have been great - 2/2 trample for GGG and a bestow cost of G. (they could print it as a 2/0 if they have it ETB with a +1/+1 counter or something, but that would probably be too complex for NWO)

Zonekeeper
Oct 27, 2007



I don't know what deck it was or what format, but my favorite story when it comes to combos was a guy winning several rounds in a tourney by pretty much saying "I do the combo and win. Next game?". One of his opponents decided to make him play the combo out, and it turned out he didn't actually know how to do the combo and lost. :v:

Zonekeeper
Oct 27, 2007



Jon Joe posted:

If there's a cheap enough red creature w/ a good raid ability, we can have more RDW! Something like a 1/1 for 1 goblin that has raid: put a 1/1 red goblin token onto the battlefield under your control

Maybe a pinger (or some other tap ability) that had Raid: this creature gains Haste until end of turn?

Zonekeeper
Oct 27, 2007



Jonked posted:

Was about to post the same thought. If tricokor creatures are common, it's going to suck having to prioritize (bad) fixing, and if one or two colors is the rule, it feels like they'll be slightly better guildgates for splashing. Boo!

Weren't the Alara trilands constructed playable?

Zonekeeper
Oct 27, 2007



Cernunnos posted:

I imagine they wouldn't do away with the reserved list entirely. Rather they'd revise it to be less dumb. The Power Nine would still be on there. Bazaar of Baghdad, Tolarian Academy, Gaea's Cradle, Serra Sanctum, Ante Cards, Chaos Orb, etc. would all still be on there but a lot of the arbitrary picks (a bunch of stuff from Legends for instance) would be taken off.

It actually wouldn't be the first time they updated the rules; back in 2002 they removed the Beta Commons/Uncommons from it. It's why they can now reprint things like Juggernaut, Clone, and Sol Ring today. They made a second update in 2010 that removed the Premium Foil loophole that allowed them to print the Duel Deck version of Phyrexian Negator and the FTV version of Karn, Silver Golem.

Zonekeeper
Oct 27, 2007



UberJew posted:

That one is fantastic, though Rebecca Guay's Path to Exile promo gives it some serious competition. Either way the lesson is that the best one mana removal is white because they gets the best art.

I have both this and a Nielson Swords to Plowshares in one of my EDH decks. I prefer to blow away particularly annoying creatures in style. :kamina:

I wish they'd print a nonfoil version with this art, though. Because A) I'm not big on foils and B) they'd be cheap enough that I could buy more to replace the Conflux/MM ones in my other decks.

Zonekeeper fucked around with this message at 03:18 on Aug 22, 2014

Zonekeeper
Oct 27, 2007



neetengie posted:

Yep glazed over that. Should still be good on a big dude.

A monstrous Colossus of Akros's "Can attack as though it didn't have defender" ability should let it attack like that if it has Vigilance. You'll never be able to pull that off outside of EDH, though.

Zonekeeper
Oct 27, 2007



Sickening posted:

Can someone explain to me the point trying to be made here?

It's way too many words about why a card that obviously isn't going to get played seriously outside of limited and janky Commander decks is bad. The only possible non-limited use I can see for it is in a nongreen commander deck that wants access to an overrun effect.

Of course, now that I've said this, I'll probably eat my words when some deck uses it as a wincon and it shoots up to $10 overnight after some big tournament.

TL:DR evaluating cards before anyone has had a chance to see how they perform in a metagame is a fool's errand.

Zonekeeper
Oct 27, 2007



Jabor posted:

Why would they want to have only half of the fetches available to Modern?

I mean, IIRC this is something they've explicitly talked about as being rather weird and that they want to fix it at some point.

Fetches are in a really weird situation. Development has expressed that they want to cut down the amount of shuffling in games and printing fetches in a Standard-legal set runs counter to that. Not to mention that in a format without typed duals or a mechanic like landfall Fetches are kind of sub-par in their role as "dual" lands. At the same time they need a reprint badly and something has to give at some point.

I suppose they could ban the Zendikar fetches in Modern (leaving none instead of half) to address the power-level/deckspeed/shuffling issues they cause in the format and unban other cards like Deathrite Shaman that were broken with them present, but the fallout from the playerbase's expensive lands becoming worthless overnight might not be worth the trouble.

Zonekeeper
Oct 27, 2007



Hopefully this results in more classic mechanics being stuck into blocks now that they can't shove them into core sets as an afterthought. (They seem to avoid the more complex ones since it's supposed to be a "beginner" product.)

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Zonekeeper
Oct 27, 2007



Dr. Clockwork posted:

I'm generally in favor of the changes, but I'm trying to figure out if this will impact me as a retailer (I own a LGS). Going from four big sales spikes a year to only two...

There's still four sets a year coming out, just instead of a 3 block set and a core set it's two blocks of two sets per year.

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