Let's Debate the Police and Criminal Justice

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tezcat: Jan 1, 2005

Vahakyla posted:

That officer's booking info.

http://inmatesearch.charlestoncount...gStatus=Current

Looks like he's thinking "Maybe planting the Tazer was a bad move..."

# ¿ Apr 8, 2015 05:40

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# ¿ May 14, 2024 03:36

tezcat: Jan 1, 2005

My Rhythmic Crotch posted:

It's innovative if nothing else. Ramming vehicles during pursuits is nothing new, ramming human beings? Pretty sure that's a new one.

Well police trying to murder a potential suicide victim isn't new.

But really, what brain surgeon thinks the response to a guy holding a gun to his head is to run him over?

# ¿ Apr 15, 2015 05:51

tezcat: Jan 1, 2005

Jarmak posted:

Yeah but your message was completely wrong, we didn't use less restraint.

Less restraint than someone who has none sounds like someone who escalates the situation.

Which fits the scope of the thread to a T concerning cops & makes the message correct.

# ¿ Apr 17, 2015 22:10

tezcat: Jan 1, 2005

ActusRhesus posted:

To be fair, non military types telling vets how it really is is kind of a something awful intramural sport.

It's more getting vets to say how lovely they are just to spite the "leftist" & "liberals" mentioning the fact that the police are may be worse. That is comedy in itself.

Don't worry kids, you can both be lovely for your own reasons :smug:

# ¿ Apr 19, 2015 01:47

tezcat: Jan 1, 2005

My Rhythmic Crotch posted:

The man who was recently believed to have been given a "nickel ride" by Baltimore PD has passed away due to complications from his injuries and/or surgery (I'm not a doctor). Link to story. This one is loving heartbreaking. They gave this guy some savage, horrible injuries in an especially cruel way

Basically a legal way to pull a James Bird Jr without witnesses to the actual abuse. I hope they get charged but I have no faith in the system to do so.

# ¿ Apr 20, 2015 07:17

tezcat: Jan 1, 2005

Jarmak posted:

The cop was the department's homeless liaison officer, so he also does this poo poo everyday. But yeah, this is a good way of approaching police reform, lets poo poo on any police department who tries to do good things. This is part of whats frustrating about this thread, I'm full in favor of police reform but people seem more interested in red team blue team gently caress the police poo poo then actual reform.

ActusRhesus posted:

Pretty much.

Actually no. People have pointed out time and again (which you 2 seem to mysteriously forget) is that if the officer is paid to do just that then what makes it so remarkable? If what you are saying is correct and the officer honestly is just doing his job then why are they getting special accolades for it? Cariol Horne deserves recognition for stopping her partner from choking a person they were both sworn to protect. The fact that shes getting fired for it is typical and the police would deserve recognition for backing her up instead of backing her typical white powertripping rear end in a top hat partner. SLED deserves recognition for charging their shithead cop with Murder instead of the easy out "nothing to see here" like the recent lawyer assaulted by officers of the law.

The problem with you and AR is that you focus on what seems to be an imagined retoric of people saying "cops bad" forgetting the reason that people say that is because they are being pretty lovely. Cops are not supposed to fill people full of holes and plant weapons on victims. They are not supposed to shoot black people with greater frequency in life threatening situations than white people.

If you 2 want to point out a case where a cop does something above and beyond their normal fuctions like Schoolcraft or similare I'm sure most of the thread will be right behind you. But if you want to toss a cookie every time an officer does what he/she is supposed to do then you won't get much traction.

Remember, the trend is white victim given benefit of the doubt. Black victim is not. DA's and other Lawyers protect cops at all cost, officers who break the law are given leniency above and beyond what a normal citizen gets. Thats the norm If you want to cry about people people not wanting to cheer the norm then explain to us why we should? Because people deserve better.

# ¿ Apr 23, 2015 15:13

tezcat: Jan 1, 2005

effectual posted:

^ Is Finland a pretty white country? Whites mostly get violent when they have someone else to hate.

Right, look at the riots surrounding the anger at Pedophile Coach Sandusky being arrested. I mean it would be cool if they rioted to get that fucker arrested but instead they riot to defend a pedophile.

quote:

Good. Protests that don't disrupt anything don't change anything.

Exactly, the more anger it generates and the more white people are affected by this, the quicker a resolution is reached. The Baltimore PD could have conducted themselves like SLED and in turn generated an outcome beneficial to the community but instead conducted themselves like your typical PD more concerned with protecting officers than holding them responsible for deaths in their care.

# ¿ Apr 26, 2015 19:04

tezcat: Jan 1, 2005

-Troika- posted:

I'm sure that's very comforting to the random shop owners who's windows got broken and the motorists who were attacked by protesters, none of which had anything to do with the guy being protested about's death.

Most of those shop owners & motorist are probably the same people who make the racist youtube comments in stuff like this:

Jazzimus Prime posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6ZVq2Fim8Q

Of course I already answered this in the post above yours.

tezcat posted:

the more anger it generates and the more white people are affected by this, the quicker a resolution is reached. The Baltimore PD could have conducted themselves like SLED and in turn generated an outcome beneficial to the community but instead conducted themselves like your typical PD more concerned with protecting officers than holding them responsible for deaths in their care.

# ¿ Apr 26, 2015 19:37

tezcat: Jan 1, 2005

Lowtechs posted:

Except it really isn't affecting many white people at all.

Of those businesses shown in the video are they black owned or white owned? The people -Troika- mentioned being assaulted, were any of them white? Remember, this has only started. No telling where it will end and what bodycount it will reach.

tezcat fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Apr 26, 2015

# ¿ Apr 26, 2015 19:51

tezcat: Jan 1, 2005

Enigma89 posted:

It's pretty crazy how pissed people are about the cops shooting down random black teens on the street and then when you look at youtube comments of these Baltimore protests/riots and the most upvoted ones are the most racist ones. Is Baltimore super racists or is Stormfront just voting in mass on these videos?

semper wifi posted:

Surprise, ruining poo poo for everyone pisses people off and tends to set them against you.

Normal people don't spout racist poo poo when something bad happens to them. Just because you're a racist rear end in a top hat doesn't mean that everyone else is or acts like you. Stop Projecting

# ¿ Apr 27, 2015 06:40

tezcat: Jan 1, 2005

Foma posted:

Voting and Money are what matters

Are you really so clueless and sheltered that you just forgot how Ferguson bled its minority population dry of money or that gerrymandering is a real thing? Or that Bank of America & Wells Fargo just 2 years ago got smacked with lawsuits over "Mudpeople Loans"?

# ¿ Apr 28, 2015 07:33

tezcat: Jan 1, 2005

Foma posted:

They don't actually turn out the vote in meaningful numbers, which is why they should focus more of their efforts on that.

No really, you're not even going to consider gerrymandering as a thing? That's some impressive ignorance.

# ¿ Apr 28, 2015 07:59

tezcat: Jan 1, 2005

murphyslaw posted:

You have made me see things clearly: innocents murdered by the police is just the same as a dad righteously scolding an errant child. Any protest or outrage in reaction to it is an unconscionable act of defiance to just authority.

Problem with his illustration is if dad severed his sons spine and killed him, dads rear end would be in jail as a known child abuser to the inmates.

# ¿ Apr 28, 2015 08:26

tezcat: Jan 1, 2005

Jarmak posted:

Its not vague at all, the problem is:

It doesn't matter if the victim had a spring loaded rocket-launcher. The police are supposed to apprehend the suspect and deliver them to a holding facility so that way a court can process him when he has legal representation. You don't abuse a subject in your custody. You don't refuse to render him aid when he is unresponsive. You don't spend a week trying to get your story together to cover your rear end only to have your poo poo blown wide open.

Basically this whole thing is opening peoples eye about the sorry state of affairs to the point that even Republicans like John Boehner have to make comments about it. It's pretty phenominal when both Repubs and Dems both cant even defend abusive cops, or they can but they get rightly called retarded or crazy.

# ¿ May 2, 2015 18:12

tezcat: Jan 1, 2005

TGLT posted:

You are aware I started this poo poo derail about knife laws, not Jarmak, right? And I started it specifically because I was concerned they'd use Baltimore's laws on knives which are not necessarily pre-empted by Maryland's laws as wiggle room

Made an edit for it but the rest still stands.

# ¿ May 2, 2015 18:15

tezcat: Jan 1, 2005

GlyphGryph posted:

It does matter. Specific charges were filed, and unless they are guilty of those specific things they will get off. We are discussing whether or not they are likely to be found guilty of those specific things.

Yes, the cop who drove isn't getting off on poo poo whether or not the knife was legal. The cops who were in the van aren't getting off their charges. The cops who arrested him originally, though, for no reason? They might, or might not, depending on this very relevant part of the situation.

I feel like you're not actually paying attention and just want to get mad.

The point is that regardless of the speculation here, the courts will be the ones who determine if the knife falls under the guidelines set forth by their laws. Since the knife is in their possession and not planted (assuming such since officers are trustworthy in such matters) then I'm sure it will be brought up. I mean if you or anyone murdered someone and a knife may exonerate you from the fact that you murdered them by a technicality them I'm sure you will mention it and hammer it home as if your life depended on it. Cause it does.

Again it's just another way for officers to get off the charges for shaking someone till their neck breaks like shaking a baby till his neck breaks. Except a shaken baby isn't slammed against metal walls in a confined area, that's reserved for adults. So who is the person that doesn't cast a wary eye on that?

# ¿ May 2, 2015 18:40

tezcat: Jan 1, 2005

Melthir posted:

Seriously. No one starts out racist. Its a learned behavior. You find your self on the job thinking this person or that person fits a profile and eventually everyone of that skin color fits that profile. Its a hard thing to fight. Hell it happens to the black cops to.

*watches Dinkheller Video 100's of times. Interacts with more white perps than black perps.* "It's the blacks that fit the profile! Even black cops do it too!"

I mean we went over this a few post above yours so not sure what you hoped to gain by saying this.

# ¿ May 4, 2015 14:48

tezcat: Jan 1, 2005

Jarmak posted:

I wasn't being ironic, I was bragging

edit:

look, an idiot

The comment could have been taken either way but thank you for clarifying. It's honestly great that your state is trying to lead the way in drug rehab reform and I look forward to seeing other states implement it. One thing that would help crime rates and everyone in general is treating drug issues as a healthcare issue.

tezcat fucked around with this message at 14:21 on May 6, 2015

# ¿ May 6, 2015 14:18

tezcat: Jan 1, 2005

twodot posted:

Why is the anti-police rhetoric so terrible in this thread?

It's not "anti-police" rhetoric to demand that police not try to pull a Kelly Thomas on anyone. I'm puzzled how you could even think that.

# ¿ May 13, 2015 04:59

tezcat: Jan 1, 2005

-Troika- posted:

Haha you should read TCC sometime. Most of the people who do the hard stuff are, indeed, vermin or scum and only worth derision.

Well if reading TCC is your only contact with people who do hard stuff then I can see that opinion being valid sort of. In my experience most addicts want to break the cycle and just need help in doing so. When given a chance to change their lifestyle, they do and its common for me to hear "its my 10th anniversary of being clean and sober". Reason being usually something lovely in their life seems to be the trigger for abuse to start and when you nullify that they get better. Which is why I agree with treating addiction as a healthcare issue.

Now people who cheer the police killing people because they think those killed are "scum or vermin" are the ones worth derision because its the shortsighted lazy way of thinking (indeed the problem with murdercops and their defenders). You ultimately help more people fixing the cause of the issue than the symptom, but they don't even want to exert enough effort to actually do their job (serve & protect) and end up making it harder to trust good cops who will actually defend citizens from bad cops. Good cops are out there and unfortunately they are run off the force because they show just how lovely other cops are.

tezcat fucked around with this message at 18:05 on May 16, 2015

# ¿ May 16, 2015 18:00

tezcat: Jan 1, 2005

hobotrashcanfires posted:

Yeah, it's pretty funny when they die, huh?

Oh no, wait, it isn't, and that's reason anyone was even talking about it.

I'm willing to add stupid to my line about "shortsighted lazy way of thinking" for people like -Troika-.

Because comedy tries to punch up instead of down and -Troika- while being on an internet comedy website has yet to figure that out.

# ¿ May 16, 2015 18:15

tezcat: Jan 1, 2005

Rent-A-Cop posted:

"We are now providing additional training on what to do when you have to go to the bathroom," Capitol Police Chief Kim C Dine told Congress.

The Capitol Police don't know how to poop correctly.

quote:

He said there was no excuse for leaving guns behind in toilets and more lockers are being installed to store firearms.

A first-time offender is typically suspended for five days but this could be increased to 30 days, he said. There could be sackings for individuals who re-offend.

"I would be remiss if I did not say that the officers involved in these recent weapons cases reported in the media in no way intended to leave their weapons unattended.

What kind of loving moron leaves a gun behind after taking a dump?

# ¿ May 23, 2015 04:48

tezcat: Jan 1, 2005

Samurai Sanders posted:

A while ago I watched the first Death Wish for the first time, and I can't help but think of that warped-rear end movie (and its sequels that you'd have to put a gun to my head to make me watch) as I read the last...how many pages has this been going on?

My thought is that pacmania90's thought pattern is that of the Scorpio Villain in Dirty Harry. You know, the criminally retarded dumbass that gets blown away because he went for his gun while Dirty Harry has him at gunpoint?

# ¿ Jun 3, 2015 06:17

tezcat: Jan 1, 2005

mlmp08 posted:

Brilliant psychoanalysis of unimpeachable quality.

Sure is, the alternative is listening to some kid with a comic book understanding of firearms telling people to try and go for a weapon whens someone has you at gunpoint.

I actually am ok with guns being in the hands of Gay, Women, Trans and other minorities because they are targeted disproportionately by retarded white men for violence. I would never tell them to try and reach for a gun when someone has them at gunpoint. pacmania90 needs to shut the gently caress up with his retard scenarios.

# ¿ Jun 3, 2015 15:10

tezcat: Jan 1, 2005

SpeedGem posted:

Also, if you're wearing headphones and pull up youre sagging shorts, you gonna die.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/...illed-by-police

Hey Jarmak & mlmp08 and all the others trying to pull attention away from stuff like this. Do you guys think this was a good shoot? Do you see something like this happening to you? I mean the guy shot was white and listening to music when he was shot dead. The officer isn't being charged.

# ¿ Jun 5, 2015 03:21

tezcat: Jan 1, 2005

Dead Reckoning posted:

Remember how we just spent a dozen pages talking about how people can make entirely reasonable assessments of a threat that later turn out to be wrong?

Yeah, alot of it surrounded a guy who escalated a situation into a fatality. Sounds familiar.

# ¿ Jun 5, 2015 03:23

tezcat: Jan 1, 2005

ActusRhesus posted:

A lot of people here seem to have pretty unreasonable expectations of how a person, even a trained person, ought to behave when the believe they are about to be shot.

Big take home point in all of this is when faced with armed law enforcement, do not ignore their instructions and make a quick action that could reasonably be misinterpreted as going for a weapon. There are plenty of legit cases of police and prosecutor misconduct to focus on and criticize. (Eg Orange County. Eg severed spinal cords and mystery stops en route to booking) a cop shooting someone because he matched the description of an armed suspect and, when approached, immediately reached into his pants, where weapons are often stored, is not one of them.

Well even if you do you follow their instructions you get raped groped or worse.

FRINGE posted:

New York Neeeeew Yooooork!

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/underage-girl-brushes-cops-flirting-attempt-so-shes-swarmed-cops-groped-and?sc=fb

# ¿ Jun 5, 2015 15:17

tezcat: Jan 1, 2005

mlmp08 posted:

If you'd changed it to "black male kids" your fix would actually be like 95% accurate

Cept when heroic whitebread cop beats up the "black female kid". I'm not gonna be surprised if this guy's history ends up uncovering other times he assaulted other women.

# ¿ Jun 8, 2015 05:49

tezcat: Jan 1, 2005

mlmp08 posted:

Technically speaking he told her to leave first and then raged out and started throwing her around and detained her later.

Doesn't matter if its a technicality or not. Officer Aatrek is on leave and probably is gonna see more followup into his history. A guy who thinks its a good idea to throw that altercation on youtube as some kind of tutorial has got something loose in his head.

# ¿ Jun 8, 2015 06:30

tezcat: Jan 1, 2005

Ex S.C officer charged with Murder.

http://www.fox10phoenix.com/story/28744415/sled-statement-on-sc-officer-charged-with-murder-for-shooting-man-after-traffic-stop

# ¿ Jun 8, 2015 21:46

tezcat: Jan 1, 2005

semper wifi posted:

Plus the cop doing the "slamming" is black.

By all means go on. I want to see where this is gonna end :allears:

# ¿ Jun 11, 2015 01:47

tezcat: Jan 1, 2005

Dead Reckoning posted:

"Some other cops shot a black guy, so why can't these cops throw aside all human sentiment and gun down one of their co-workers in the middle of a hostage situation?"

Quiz time. What do you call a hostage situation where the hostage is being executed?

# ¿ Jun 17, 2015 15:49

tezcat: Jan 1, 2005

Trabisnikof posted:

Not the reasonable course of action? I don't get how one week you can argue that killing any suicidal person with a knife is basically justified and then turn around and say letting this man shoot his victim again is justified.

It's because d.r. is that moron who is so eager to bust a nut framing anything as a "liberal" argument that he can't even read, much less understand that his defense of some snow ape that hides behind a badge while chimping out hurts conservatives as well as law enforcement.

Basically d.r.'s logic is the same as Dinkheller's was before he was executed. "Can't shoot this white guy/guy who is like me because he poses less of a threat than some unarmed minority". The joke is if dr was in front of Dinkheller's murderer he'd catch a bullet in his eye socket just like he did because a violent armed sociopath doesn't give a gently caress how white or anti-liberal you are.

# ¿ Jun 17, 2015 21:00

tezcat: Jan 1, 2005

Ima Grip And Sip posted:

he tries to use his daughter as a shield

Even their Chief said the officers were out of line after looking at the video. Get that through your head.

quote:

�I never want a child�s safety being jeopardized. This is the type of incident that causes us to reflect on what we tell our police officers and how we tell them,� he said in a statement.

This is the Police chief over those guys. You and Semper are out of line and honestly make it harder for good officers to maintain their integrity because you are lionizing cops who are jeopardizing children.

# ¿ Jun 30, 2015 15:18

tezcat: Jan 1, 2005

Kalman posted:

Hey, me too.

So you agree with me that it's totally natural for the officers not to have wanted to shoot their sergeant.

You are leaving out the part where he murders someone in front of you and has children hostage. Don't forget that. Most people react differently with those 2 factors added in.

edit: They also probably knew the Wife and Children too as well as officer shooty's domestic violence history. Add that to the other 2 factors.

tezcat fucked around with this message at 15:32 on Jun 30, 2015

# ¿ Jun 30, 2015 15:28

tezcat: Jan 1, 2005

Calling it right now, officer wife shooter has been molesting or abusing those kids. But thanks to the PD being buddy buddy with him this wont be uncovered till much later. Tribalism is a hell of a thing and can even make perfect strangers look the other way if it's someone on "their team". Even if the person claims to do the right thing and want to protect kids. Right AR?

# ¿ Jul 13, 2015 15:20

tezcat: Jan 1, 2005

ActusRhesus posted:

Your honor, according to this hearsay document, the defendant is guilty.

Guilty. *gavel bang*

Man, my life would be a hell of a lot easier.

Problem is if their integrity is anything like yours when dealing with law enforcement (your team) a dv call is swept under the rug and you still end up with endangered/possibly abused children & dead women.

tezcat fucked around with this message at 16:00 on Jul 13, 2015

# ¿ Jul 13, 2015 15:57

tezcat: Jan 1, 2005

Lemming posted:

Right, and the guy Dead Reckoning was responding to didn't do that. The derail started thirty loving pages ago, and a different layperson said the words "active shooter" which set him off again.

And this is why people are questioning her integrity. She can't even read and gets so rage blinded supporting her "team" she eats a month probation getting into stupid slap fights rather than address the issue.

Pretty much shows why every PD needs some kind of SLED equivalent.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ¿ Jul 13, 2015 21:22

tezcat: Jan 1, 2005

If you look back at most of the videos of white people being arrested or shot you have them doing retarded stupid poo poo or flat out disregarding the safety of officers and others. White people are so ignorant of the fact that they get away with bullshit that they honestly think they are the measurement for good behavior. All you have to do is look at that family that starts a fist fight with a group of officers, Dinkheller or any sporting event to see that they act badly.

Minorities have to act better than white people around officers because officers give white people way more leeway than anyone else. More so if the person they pulled over is a leo as well.

The fact that someone earnestly thinks that Joey Whitebread gets arrested less than James Wheatbread due to behavior is stupid. Whitebread has been statistically proven to carry illegal contraband 3 times more than anyone else

Strait up you don't want people acting like this http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/video-shows-walmart-brawl-christian-family-band-cops-article-1.2181445

Or this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6z8q4lOrDU

Can you see any case where a person of color is given that much leeway?

# ¿ Jul 20, 2015 15:00

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# ¿ May 14, 2024 03:36

tezcat: Jan 1, 2005

Untagged posted:

Sounds like the Texas State Police use several of the old Watchguard DVD systems for in-car cameras. From experience these systems sometimes aren't the greatest. They can degrade over time, have read/write issues from the initial save the internal HD, and then the re-write back up to DVD. Other issues Include but are not limited to hard-drive issues and any issues with the DVD in the burner like scratches or faults already present. Not saying whether it was or was not edited I have no idea, just when I heard the audio tracked but the video did not it didn't surprise me. One of the main reasons most new systems are all digital with no external media like tapes or discs.

Shoddy equipment doesn't explain video editing. Even if the audio quality is poor there is no reason to edit the video unless its to protect the officer.

# ¿ Jul 22, 2015 14:34

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Let's Debate the Police and Criminal Justice

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