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ProZocK posted:This is not about E-honour bullshit. E-Honor bullshit is when someone starts complaining that you are stalling at the end line. That`s bullshit. i will clawpomb you irl
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Oct 4, 2015 18:13
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GNU Order posted:I almost did the same thing when I posted about blowing up pubbies with a minmaxed, farmed clawpomb murder squad and a couple people called me a cheater and one of them said I must be popular with the ladies
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Oct 4, 2015 18:33
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Free Cheese posted:If you foul on turn 16 you're worse than Stalin
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Oct 4, 2015 23:10
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Chaos at low TV is suffering, so if you find something that's strictly optimal, be sure to let us know. The meta-game answer is that you're not stopping them from scoring, so the real solution is to pressure their ball carrier so much that they have no choice but to score quickly so you can get the ball back early in the half, to hopefully score before the end of it. With a passing game, you do this by pressuring the thrower heavily and doing your best to envelop his cage. Ignore the catchers - you're right, the only way to neutralize them is to double mark them (and in the case of Pro Elves not even that helps, their catchers are absolutely insane) and that's a losing proposition. Dogpile the thrower's cage and force them to throw and score by turn 2 or 3 so you can get the ball back and grind down the pitch with the majority of the half. With a running game like the Skaven do, it's kind of the same but you can be more aggressive in getting close and leaving a few players unmarked since the opponent isn't going to be that interested in tossing the ball around. On AG4 teams everyone is a ball handling threat, so leaving one edge of the cage unmarked means that you could be looking at a hand-off and a dash to burn another turn. Skaven are AG3, so once they have the ball in the hands of a decent Gutter Runner it's probably not leaving it. Once the opponent has the ball in a Gutter Runner's hands, just play a zone defense to make it risky to stall the score. Your goal is less to stop them from scoring and more to get the ball back. This is the soul of 'the 2-1 grind'. Basically, the half you kick, you force your opponent to score quickly and then score at the end of the half. The half you receive, you control the ball and grind slowly down the pitch to score (ideally) on the last turn, and provide no chance to answer the score, which gives you a 2-1 victory. As your TV rises, double-marking receivers can make more sense since you don't need so many men to provide a big threat to a cage. A Minotaur with Tentacles can bust into a cage spoke and lock down an elf thrower almost by himself. In that case, covering the receivers can make some sense since you might actually be able to stop the score. Unless, again, you're playing against Pro Elves. Catchers with Dodge and Nerves of Steel are not to be underestimated.
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Oct 5, 2015 08:11
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i once made a pro elf team where everyone's first skill was pro, no exceptions i called it the proelffessionals as you can probably guess, most of my turns ended with someone flat on their rear end, with "PRO" hanging over their head.
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Oct 6, 2015 16:11
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A Goblin makes a lot of sense as a ball carrier instead of a Thrower on orc teams if you're of a particular mind. They come with Dodge, have +1 MA vs Throwers, and are 30k cheaper. Stunty also means that dodging doesn't get harder with TZs, so getting through screens that have dudes without Tackle is actually a pretty even bet with a Goblin, and that's not something that people expect an Orc team to pull out. Their big problem is that they don't come with Sure Hands and they need dubs to get it. And then another dubs to get Blodge if you consider that critical, but honestly for a ball carrier I would not consider it a huge thing. Dedicated runners like that simply should not be taking enough hits for it to be a problem. Goblins are also nice in that you can keep them off the pitch on defensive drives and lose nothing, just shove another lineorc in there and call it a day. Also a Goblin with Catch and an orc Thrower makes for an actually legitimate passing threat if you want your orcs to play some elfball every now and then. Tortuga posted:So if you pile-on a dude you just KO'd, you can actually revive him a bit so he's just stunned? Not sure this skill is good.
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Oct 6, 2015 20:15
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Tortuga posted:I didn't do it, I don't have pile on on anyone, just thought is was funny when someone did it to my ogre. If it's not mandatory to pile on, more fool him I guess. Strictly speaking, you can choose not to use ANY skill - like, you can choose to not use Catch to reroll grabbing a bouncing ball if you'd prefer that it scatters again. Cyanide's games do an atrocious job of allowing you to exercise that right, but yeah, they manage to get it right on Piling On at least. If you knock down someone it always asks if you if you want to Pile On. The guy who did it to you probably assumed you get the better of the two injury rolls, but nope. It's a straight reroll, take the latter result. Sucks to be him for pushing his luck like that.
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Oct 6, 2015 20:59
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Yeah you don't want to put PO on a big guy, but putting it on a lineman is perfectly fine. The traditional use is on a Blitzer, though, since they will be hitting people a lot and they're valuable enough that you don't really want them to get hit that often in return. When they're on the ground they can be fouled, but if someone is pulling in enough resources to do a good gang-foul you can simply not pile on.
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Oct 7, 2015 00:07
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FoolyCharged posted:Plus the general role on linemen for any team is to get the poo poo beaten out of them by the opponents scary pieces and getting in the way. Placing a lino on the ground is generally detrimental to that goal. You can say the same about Dirty Player since getting a dude sent off is detrimental to being the meat shield, but a dedicated fouler is a thing that works on a number of teams. It's not typical sure, but I could see the use case in putting PO on a lineman of most racial types, and definitely in the case of a line-Orc the way I originally meant it.
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Oct 7, 2015 03:00
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Yeah Wrestle is basically tailor made to favor elfy teams that would otherwise start seeing some serious strangulation problems at about TV1500 when every idiot has Tackle. Never not Wrestle on agile teams.
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Oct 7, 2015 03:16
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Splode posted:You two should play a game of blood bowl to settle your differences i unironically feel like the internet would be a much better place if slapfighting nerds could be compelled to settle slapfights with the competitive game of their choice with hearty yells of 'SETTLE IT THE USUAL WAY, NERDS' either we play a lot more games and spectators get stuff to watch or the nerds are coerced into stopping their slapfight, everyone wins Coolguye fucked around with this message at 04:30 on Oct 7, 2015 |
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Oct 7, 2015 04:27
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What inducements are available? The answer to that question varies wildly depending on which game you're playing and what settings you're under.
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Oct 13, 2015 17:06
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Yeah, grab a wizard, force them to cage up real tight, and then throw a fireball at half their team at once. Hope for some fun CAS hits. Your other main option is another RR and some Bloodweiser Babes, but the latter isn't gonna help you since your AV is high enough that you shouldn't be seeing a ton of KOs, and an additional reroll likely won't help with your primary problem - namely, that you're likely lacking the amount of Tackle and other skills you need to really control the pitch.
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Oct 13, 2015 17:20
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It surprises me that they have so many 'X kick off event is cancelled' improvements, but do not have one that cancels "Blitz!" Throw A Rock has special snowflake murdering potential and all but the number of times it really affects the game is somewhat limited. Blitz changes everything every single time it comes up.
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Oct 13, 2015 22:52
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Sgt. Anime Pederast posted:What's the best way to gently caress up a POMB claw team anyway? Generally lots of Fend, since it negates Piling On. Dodge also helps a lot since they will most likely be short on Tackle.
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Oct 14, 2015 00:29
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It asked you properly in BB1, and you could set certain skills to prompt in a deeply buried place in the options in BB1 (I did this for Shadowing). BB2 doesn't have that similar option?
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Oct 16, 2015 02:30
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Practice how you intend to play. If you're playing an elfy team in perpetual and you ever intend to play in a non perpetual, you will want to stall at the line to see how your opponent pressures you. Stalling at the line is a difficult proposition in a lot of ways, so you can't just 'do' it when it suddenly counts.
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Oct 16, 2015 15:42
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The former is precisely why I say it is important to practice. Stalling the TD for an extra turn as an elf team makes it a lot less likely that the opposing bashy team will be able to pull off a running TD before the end of the half.
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Oct 16, 2015 16:04
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you should get block first on a saurus but after that mighty blow can make a lot of sense. don't go nuts with it though, you'll need some tackle.
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Oct 19, 2015 01:47
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MRLOLAST posted:You could be crazy and give one naked mb instead of block. He will be level up faster and you can use it to do 3 d blocks. you'd think this but in practice he is going to be the weak link in your line and will be targeted as such by your opponents. if i am fighting lizards and can get a 1db against a saurus without block vs someone WITH block, i will probably take that bet after my more important motions are done. this is especially true if i have rerolls to burn. it's worth it to put a saurus on the ground, and potentially in the dugout/morgue. if you go mighty blow first, i'll likely have taken some guard on my blitzers or blitzer analogs and more block on my filler, so i'll have an even easier time getting these opportunities to put your dude on his rear end. you're not causing any casualties from your rear end. take block first. the second levelup can be a delicate balance of tackle, guard, and mighty blow, but the first level on basically every saurus should be block. also yeah if i got dubs on a saurus i'd probably ignore it in favor of just getting more of the critical skills (tackle/guard/etc). the TV bloat from a doubles skill is simply not worth the limited use a saurus is going to get out of the skill. yeah if you pop dodge on there a blodge saurus can avoid a lot of blocks, but if you'd just given him guard instead the block likely wouldn't have been thrown in the first place. lizards basically have to stick hard to fundamentals because if they are ever pushed out of their comfort zone, they are in very, very serious trouble. Coolguye fucked around with this message at 08:49 on Oct 19, 2015 |
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Oct 19, 2015 08:46
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Victor Vermis posted:A ST4 player with Block, Dodge, and Stand Firm is super useful for locking down multiple players and forcing them to consider wasting blitz/tacklers on your Saurus instead of murdering a skink every turn. quote:Guess what, you're never going to win the skill race against anyone with Lizards. Are you firing any Saurus who manages to level beyond Block/Mighty Blow/Guard/Tackle?
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Oct 19, 2015 15:41
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In that case the ref lets the clock run for 2 turns and gives the opposition a point. Then you get to roll KO wake ups again.
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Oct 19, 2015 18:42
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yeah pretty hard to second guess a blodge orc unless you have something special in mind
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Oct 20, 2015 07:08
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Jade Star posted:e: oh on weird things that happened. My chaos ran into a 2000ish Bretonian team. The dude had picked block as his first non double skill on all 4 of his blockers. I mean... I guess he really hated wrestle? Anyone else seen this? That said, just because there's some value in doing it doesn't mean it's a good idea. It's a little awkward at best for a Bretonian team to work that way, and he's undoubtedly had a fair bit of opportunity cost that would allow his team to work more coherently than otherwise.
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Oct 23, 2015 07:26
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I don't know, I haven't hit that particular situation in BB2. I know in BB1 I did a dumb gimmick team where they had both and the game always politely asked if I wanted to use Wrestle when it was applicable.
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Oct 23, 2015 07:58
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Voyager I posted:This post took a pretty big poo poo on Cyanide balancing. I mean don't get me wrong, mandatory skill usage is loving retarded and really defeats the purpose of a ton of skills. I just don't see how the logic connects right now.
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Nov 2, 2015 07:34
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GNU Order posted:I've dabbled with trying to write introductions to blood bowl concepts and it's just not easy. I even remember making like a flow chart to try to answer the "I'm new what races should I play as" question q1) is winning or doing stupid stuff more fun to you a1) winning -> go to q2 a2) doing stupid stuff -> play goblins first q2) what sounds most appealing to you: bashing someone's face in, pulling off a totally bullshit play to win at the last second, or do you have no idea? a1) bashing -> play orcs a2) bullshit play -> play wood elves a3) no idea -> play humans eof, the biggest thing with blood bowl is just to play the drat game. people psych themselves out way too bad with it, it's a little like chess or go in that respect. people get all up in their heads with chess or go that they're not masters that can see 15 movements into the future and essentially beat themselves before they even start. same with blood bowl, people get all up in their heads that they don't know what is best and the reality is that nobody does. all you can do is put someone's feet on the path and then tell them to walk it. trying to map out the path for them is a fool's errand. obviously you need ways to answer questions as they come up, which is what fellow players and rule books are for, but basically all of you guys are right. 80 pages is way too goddamn much to get started, even 8 is pushing it honestly. a campaign that tosses in a bunch of stuff that isn't relevant to playing the normal game sucks as a tutorial. bb1 actually had a half decent tutorial where jim and bob told you the basics. you didn't get all the spergy chance discussions but guess what you don't need that to start coaching a team. go ruin a few teams with your terrible coaching, it's fine. the pieces do not have feelings and at absolute worst you simply won't talk about those experiences. at best you'll gently caress up in some spectacular and hilarious way and it'll make a great story. one of the best pieces of advice i got when i was learning go was 'lose your first 100 games quickly.' it teaches you the basic patterns of go and teaches you how not to lose your loving head every time things don't go well for you. blood bowl's similar. you should just start playing and incompetently murder your first 10 players quickly. it will teach you what killed those players so you can not do that, and will also teach you exactly how little an individual player matters and how life goes on for the team after a bad game. unless you're yapo and gave all the SPP to a single runner in a very public league lololololololol
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Nov 5, 2015 18:13
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Rogue posted:Thank you everyone who stopped by to hang out! I hope you enjoyed my loving dead dinosaur OPEN THE DOOR GET ON THE FLOOR EVERYONE KILL THE DINOSAUR
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Nov 8, 2015 01:35
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Yeah the thing about Orc trolls is less that they have negative traits (all big guys do) and more that they share the roster with 4 strength 4 guys who do not have negative traits
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Nov 8, 2015 22:52
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minos are probably the second most useful big guy though, since if you give them tentacles you can blitz them at any standard cage, and presuming they don't fall the gently caress over they're going to be a colossal pain in the rear end due to the high strength and tentacles. that said you can make much the same argument regarding a warrior since everyone's got mutation access on singles, it's essentially the same problem as orcs that it's hard to justify paying a bunch of TV for str 5 when you already have a ton of str 4 lying around
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Nov 8, 2015 23:33
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el Gonzo posted:
Yeah that's the general rookie mistake. More experienced coaches will mark him with an unskilled lineman and laugh as they neutralize 110k+ of TV while their actually important players go do things to and around the ball. You really should have given him break tackle instead of pro because as it stands i am putting some scrub on your 'most influential' piece and locking him in place until your mino manages to remove him from the pitch, which statistically will take about 4 turns if I remember the odds right. If you waste mans hanging around punching my scrub away it just makes me won that matchup even more so that's also a thing
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Nov 9, 2015 02:14
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Yeah the difference between most big guys and normal players is that with normal players, there is there small subset of actions they can take that they cannot possibly screw up. Things like standing up, moving, etc. There is literally nothing a big guy cannot gently caress up. You can minimize the chances depending on the big guy, but he will always, ALWAYS be capable of loving it up. In a game that already has so much at risk you need a rather large payoff for that risk to be worth it. And on some teams, esp skaven and goblins, that payoff exists. But for most teams it just doesn't make sense.
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Nov 9, 2015 02:33
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Hryme posted:A 3 str player with guard is not that scary because you can hit that player first with a 4 str player and get 2 dice. no player with guard is 'scary', guard is not 'scary' in and of itself. guard is most effective when more people have it, which is precisely why orcs are a grand punching team until claws start coming out; their skill access and starting skill distribution means that on most TVs, they will have more guard than the other guy. and when compared to lizards it's a LOT more.
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Nov 9, 2015 03:04
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i actually like block -> frenzy on blorcs. blorcs have poo poo MA so they're not gonna move much beyond blocking, might as well give them frenzy so they can shove their way into the middle of a fight. it's where they belong anyway.
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Nov 9, 2015 03:43
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1 is minimum so it was basically a miss next game injury
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Nov 9, 2015 08:35
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The Mattybee posted:Honestly I never want to get matched against Dwarves ever because they're a stupid team, but I REALLY never want to get matched against Dwarves over double my TV. it'd be really funny if you could set spin preferences to ban teams suddenly dwarves stop being played period because nobody wants to go against them
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Nov 11, 2015 05:09
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the bot in the irc channel agrees with you <Coolguy> !hitler <Decent> The following items = Hitler. That is all. <Decent> Furril: "3+ rolls with RR." <Decent> Cygrade: "Regen rolls on serious injuries" <Decent> Yapo: "GFIs are literally hitler" <Decent> Shogunate: "Lizardmen are scaly Hilters." <Decent> Ewie: "Dorfs are doublehitlers. Each."
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Nov 11, 2015 05:23
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ocrumsprug posted:You may feel like a douche for playing a ClawMBPO Chaos team, but then you get matched up against a Dwarf team and it suddenly all makes sense. if you call your team "gently caress dwarves" and then immediately concede against any team that is not dwarves you will be lauded as a hero
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Nov 12, 2015 02:43
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the main argument for DT is that it is hilarious, not that it is Functionally Valuable
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Nov 14, 2015 22:48
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Perestroika posted:So, is the implementation of Diving Tackle broken (in BB2) or did I miss a rules tidbit? Had my Saurus with it standing next to a Beastman and a Chaos Warrior. Chaos warrior tries to dodge away, I don't get asked whether or not to use DT. He fails, uses a reroll, again I don't get asked and this time he succeeds. Of course that turned out to be the blitz that allowed him to score in the same turn Did your saurus end up on his rear end? Because if so then DT worked and the CW just rolled well.
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Nov 19, 2015 23:40
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