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computer parts posted:Or it was just too much on a TV budget. They needed Stannis' plot in the show because that's their way of getting Melisandre to the wall to resurrect Jon. He's pretty much a glorified plot device. In It For The Tank posted:They kept him around for four seasons but generally portrayed him unfavorably in a way that was untrue to his characterization in the books and emphasized his negative traits wherever possible (like when he planned to kill Davos even after he read the Night's Watch letter, how he burns many more people in the show than he does in the books and for less legitimate reasons, and how he spent most of Season 4 threatening Davos at every opportunity), spent a lot of time describing their negative interpretation of the character in the behind the scenes features (example), and they also specifically did not tell the charismatic actor that they (I agree, Dillane's amazing, just the writing isn't) much about the history of the character beyond the fact that he "won a few battles" and apparently he had to fish to get even that. That seems like such a big change to make. If Stannis does beat the Boltons in the book, then what does a resurrected Jon do? He's not going to march against Stannis. I guess Jon could end up going to Winterfell to meet Stannis for whatever reason and then that's when the Others/Littlefinger attack whereas in the show it's the same except minus Stannis add Ramsay. Ginette Reno fucked around with this message at 17:07 on Jan 7, 2016 |
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Jan 7, 2016 17:04
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Mr. Nice! posted:What do you mean there's indications that stannis will beat the boltons? The pink letter is all we have in the books and it looks like it was legit. What makes you think it was legit? It's pretty clearly a fake.
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Jan 7, 2016 17:13
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In It For The Tank posted:Wouldn't he? If Stannis beats the Boltons, he would be in control of Winterfell and a revived Jon who has broken from the Night's Watch and has Melisandre whispering in his ear about being Azor Ahai might decide to take back his rightful seat. I also wouldn't put it past Stannis to march against Jon for abandoning his post, mobilizing an army, and y'know, probably being the reason Shireen is dead. Would Melisandre abandon a still living Stannis, though? Even if she does resurrect Jon in the books, that still leaves Stannis alive and a victorious Stannis at Winterfell would presumably not do much to dissuade Mel from her belief in him. In the show she flees him like a sinking ship when she realizes he's not the one but it's a bit harder to justify that if he wins that battle. Although it would be an interesting dynamic for Mel to march alongside Jon. Stannis having to play second fiddle to Jon and having to treat with Jon/Mel would be a very Stannis thing to have happen Mr. Nice! posted:Because Ramsey defeated Stannis. If the letter were true I don't think there is any way the show would have left it out. It would have made the assassination of Jon far more plausible rather than the route the show took which is he was killed just because he likes Wildlings. Ramsay may well defeat Stannis in the books but even if he does I still think the letter was a fake. There's too many questionable things about it.
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Jan 7, 2016 17:26
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In It For The Tank posted:As far as Melisandre knows, thanks to the Pink Letter, Stannis is dead. Her POV chapter in ADWD is already her skirting around the edges of the revelation that her fires are trying to tell her than Jon is Azor Ahai; the news from the Pink Letter might be enough for her to finally make the connection. Once she realizes Jon is AA, she'll do anything to bring him back (hence, burning Shireen). If she later finds out Stannis is actually alive, I can't see it doing much to dissuade her from supporting Jon if she's made up her mind about him being AA, especially if she has already torched Shireen. Yeah all that is why I think the Pink Letter is false. Ramsay doesn't gain much by provoking Jon like that, but Mance or Yara have everything to gain. Even Manderly or one of the Umbers could have written it. It's a shame the show decided to just get rid of that because the way you describe it makes Stannis a far more tragic and sympathetic figure, and is a more interesting drama than Jedi Jon against Darth Ramsay. You just know they're going to ramp up Ramsay to comical villain levels the rest of this season too. It's such an obvious plot, whereas the way the fat man has written it is a lot more subtle and interesting to me. I don't even think it would have taken that much longer to follow GRMM's way of doing it. A couple of scenes introducing Wyman and how there is animosity towards the Boltons from the North (do that same Frey vs Manderly scene from the books) then build up Stannis' masterplan, have the battle early next season, and bam. And last season could have ended with the pink letter and then Jon's death. It really wouldn't have taken that long.
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Jan 7, 2016 20:00
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Botnit posted:Stannis being alive would both be interesting and also make Ramsay slightly less godlike, therefore it certainly won't be happening. Not sure what would be interesting about it. They killed his army and Mel abandoned him. There's kinda nothing left for him to do. At least in the books he'll have an army to say gently caress you to Jon and Mel with.
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Jan 8, 2016 17:53
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I thought season 5 was the weakest season so far, and I'm rather dubious about season 6 being worth a poo poo. Some of D&D's original content is good, but for every bit that is good there is bad pussy. Say what you will about that fat gently caress but most of the series' best moments/dialogue are still ones he's written. In saying that, the show is still better than most tv that is out there.
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Jan 25, 2016 04:02
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It's kinda cool when the writer does put a lot of effort into making sure everything fits just so, though. GRMM does this very well with plotting, but less so with any sense of rules or world details.Tolkien on the other hand was insanely spergy about his world and everything had to fit and have an extensive history and make sense. Both styles fit their respective works so I don't have a problem with how either does it.
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Feb 5, 2016 07:25
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I just hope we don't get one hundred pointless scenes this season that go: Hey guys remember Ramsay? Yeah, he's still a huge rear end in a top hat. Here, have a scene of him kicking a dog that doesn't move the plot forward at all. Hopefully Dave Hill saves us from that 
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Feb 15, 2016 05:59
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Armyman25 posted:Why are people using spoiler tags in the spoiler thread? I hope not. Ramsay is too stupid to outwit Roose, although 20 good men show Ramsay is the chosen one and will probably pull some bullshit
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Mar 21, 2016 22:58
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Tywin was also poisoned (books, not show) which is one of those cool little background things the Gurm put in. He was going to die even before Tyrion killed him, which I suppose makes Tyrion's actions even more tragic in a way. It's actually really fortunate for Doran that Tyrion does kill Tywin because otherwise it's a guaranteed war between Dorne and Lannisters. e: Though I suppose it would have been possible that if Tyrion had escaped and not killed Tywin they'd have just pinned Tywin's poisoning on him as well. Cersei certainly would have tried to although the rest of them would have likely suspected Oberyn.
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Mar 28, 2016 06:06
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Mike N Eich posted:"Oberyn poisons Tywin" is something I'm reasonably sure GRRM didn't put in on purpose but there's enough incidental evidence that its a sort of emergent story itself. I think its really cool and I'm glad people have pointed it out. I'm sure we'll never get a confirmation one way or the other, and even if GRRM were to repudiate it I wouldn't care. It just fits too well for me to think GRMM didn't intentionally do it. It would be weird for the corpse to just putrefy like that without a reason behind it and I don't buy that GRMM would do that just to stress the theme of the Lannister house falling apart.
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Mar 29, 2016 01:08
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I'm still trying to figure out what in the hell Varys' motivation is supposed to be in the show since they aren't going to have the whole Aegon thing.
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Apr 1, 2016 03:44
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Pedro De Heredia posted:I would argue that if it doesn't matter if Oberyn poisoned Tywin before he died , and it doesn't matter if you missed his hidden agenda, then his hidden agenda does not actually exist in any meaningful way. You could argue that him poisoning Tywin makes his own death more tragic because he never lived to see his vengeance fulfilled, and it makes Tyrion's actions more tragic because his father would have died without his help and now he's a cursed kinslayer. Or maybe it's just a cool little bit of world building that may or may not be true (we'll probably never know).
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Apr 7, 2016 15:53
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steakmancer posted:Bran will probably eat Meera paste this season instead He'll eat Dany paste
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Apr 7, 2016 20:15
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Lycus posted:Davos & Ghost: Ollie gonna kill Davos.
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Apr 8, 2016 06:59
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MrL_JaKiri posted:One of the important things in the series is that people can be significantly different from their reputation (Stannis, for example). I'm not sure that there's no point to him doing it either. Him using Shae is yet another form of manipulation and dominance over Tyrion. And even that aside doesn't Varys say that one of the former Hands of the King had a fondness for whores and used the secret passes in the palace to bring them in? Aka strongly implicating Tywin.
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Apr 8, 2016 14:40
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GaussianCopula posted:Even if we overlook the fact that it would only be manipulation/dominance over Tyrion if Tyrion knew that Tywin was loving Shae, that would be only slightly above Joffrey/Ramsay tier display of power, which for all we know about Tywin, would not be his style. Even if we assume that Tywin was the hand that fancies whores, which I seriously doubt given the devotion he had for his wife, why would he have to resort to loving the used plaything of his dwarf son, who was a simple camp follower before? Because: MrL_JaKiri posted:One of the important things in the series is that people can be significantly different from their reputation (Stannis, for example). Like MrL said it's a common theme for people in the series to be different than how they portray themselves. Tywin being a massive hypocrite about whoring would be perfectly in line with that theme. I don't know if Varys pushed for or even planted Shae there but he obviously masterminded the assassination part of it at least. He likely knew she'd be there, and after some very weak protesting to Tyrion he pointed out exactly where Tyrion needed to go to get to Tywin.
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Apr 8, 2016 15:15
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Tywin having a secret predilection for whores makes perfect sense too since his Dad married one and nearly destroyed their house in the process. It fits that whole not being able to escape your family history deal. And since Tyrion is Tywin's truest heir that's just one more thing they have in common.
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Apr 8, 2016 18:17
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I bet all the traitors will die and then Davos or whoever will spare Olly and we'll have to deal with him running around being annoying all season trying to redeem himself.
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Apr 10, 2016 00:55
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Elias_Maluco posted:So Tyrion is going to do the Quentin and release the dragons Except he'll be immune to their dragons fire because he's actually a secret Targ and being a Targ = fire immunity on the show.
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Apr 11, 2016 20:47
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BlindSite posted:It would've been cool to see three bad rear end knights in white armor with plain white shields but I can live with it being Targ soldiers or whatever instead. It's not really the most important part of the scene. Presumably Littlefinger will be involved too. Probably on the side of the Starks. Or he might try to waltz in after the battle and clean up the scraps of whoever wins, though I'm not sure how that would play narratively since it would mean Jon would lose.
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Apr 12, 2016 01:45
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Hamlet442 posted:Or how this season's trailers look really good and action-packed, but we all have that fear that it'll suck? I mean last season wasn't that good so the fears are well founded.
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Apr 14, 2016 15:16
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meristem posted:Kinda sorta. The Harpy will have help from Yunkai, because the actor who played that rear end in a top hat from season... 3, I think?... is back and apparently has scenes with Yezzan. But I don't think the show had the budget for a full-on second battle in one season. They could just do another lazy wide shot battle scene like they did with Stannis where you saw his army about to get smashed and then smash cut Stannis loses gently caress you for paying attention to this story for three years. Except in this case it would probably just be the two dragons melting everyone after Tyrion lets them loose.
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Apr 15, 2016 18:33
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Dapper_Swindler posted:Robert was only ok because he had Good hands(until nedd) all he did was drink, gently caress, hunt, and yell at cersie. Robert didn't actively gently caress the kingdom up and start wars though. His biggest crime was getting massively in debt because of all the lavish tournaments and feasts he liked to hold. But in all, he kept the peace and didn't actively gently caress with his people. I actually like show Stannis better than book Stannis. Stephen Dillane brought a lot of charisma to that role. In the books Stannis is written as so thoroughly unlikeable that you wonder why anybody ever follows him. I feel like GRMM went a bit overboard with that. Dillane balances out Stannis' demeanor by having enough personal magnetism that you can see why soldiers would follow him into battle and why people would respect if not love him. Of course D&D hosed his story up badly unfortunately.
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Apr 15, 2016 20:16
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Tyrion doing a great job with the sewage doesn't in any way qualify him to rule a kingdom. Hot pie is also competent when he's properly motivated. His altercations with Joffrey were needed though. Even though Joffrey grew to despise him over them, Tyrion's biggest and most important role in his time as hand is keeping Joffrey and Cersei from completely loving everything up. Consider some of the dumb poo poo that they did even while Tyrion was there. That's that whole riot that happens and Joffrey and his retinue are so clueless and cowardly that they leave Sansa behind and she almost gets raped and killed until Tyrion sends the Hound out to retrieve her. There is also the whole Joffrey trying to strip Sansa and beat her in front of his court which Tyrion puts a stop to. Probably other poo poo I'm not remember off hand as well. Tyrion is an effective hand if only because he keeps Joffrey in line which no other person in the realm except Tywin has proven able to do.
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Apr 15, 2016 20:54
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 Tell me this is from a skit and not reality
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Apr 17, 2016 04:51
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Lycus posted:Saturday Night Live. Still pretty great
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Apr 17, 2016 04:53
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meristem posted:The Scouring is Deeply Symbolic. Basically, even the little idyll the hobbits had had was not able to escape the travails of war unscarred, or something. Here is where you recall that the war Tolkien was writing about was to him a metaphor and an escape from the First World one, and the hobbits were basically the English province. (Also, that Tolkien was capable of inserting some darker thoughts into his writing, such as that the first orcs had been basically Reek-ified elves.) Tolkien has stated in interviews that he did not intend for LOTR to be an allegory for World War 1. It's probably fair to say that his writings were heavily influenced by it though. The attempted industrialization of the Shire by Saruman and his underlings definitely reflects what was going on in the real world at the time, but Tolkien went to great pains to insist his story wasn't an allegory for any of that and he wanted it to just stand on its own. To get back on topic, I don't expect the series to end in any grand battles between men and the white walkers because GRMM goes to great pains to subvert such expectations but I'm sure the White Walkers will gently caress up quite a bit of poo poo before Jon or whoever else manages to bring about some sort of lasting peace. I'm still trying to puzzle out how Jon will be resurrected. Mel seems too obvious. Maybe the accidental burning of him or Ghost will bring it about. Someone did that have that theory earlier in the thread of sacrificing the wolf to bring him back. I could dig that, especially since Ghost is the worst guard dog ever on the show anyways.
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Apr 18, 2016 14:22
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counterfeitsaint posted:Lots of people expect him to write another book, for example. poor fools
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Apr 18, 2016 14:49
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Max posted:With the talk of Sansa subsuming Cat's role as vengeance incarnate, I wonder if she will have the hanging scene with Brienne. They already met in season 5, so that may have more payoff. Especially if Sansa is still bitter about Cat's death. Wouldn't make sense. It'd just make Sansa look petty. The Briene hanging scene has poignancy in the books because Cat swore her to an oath, and the only reason Cat threatens her with it is because she wants Jamie brought to her. Sansa obviously wouldn't want that unless she's in revenge mode, and even then I doubt she'd hate Jamie more than Cersei or whoever else.
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Apr 19, 2016 15:29
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Dapper_Swindler posted:cutting the balls would get rid of the sexual feelings mostly. It also probably makes easier to pee with a dick still attached. Aren't there stories of pedos getting castrated and then still abusing people? I doubt sexual feelings go away with no balls, or even with no dick for that matter. I get why a medieval society would think a eunuch would make sense but I don't know if it would necessarily solve anything.
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Apr 22, 2016 18:29
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In It For The Tank posted:Bwahaha. Knew it. Mel being that old would also more or less confirm why she can't resurrect anyone as her body probably can't handle giving the breath of life. It does beg the question of how Jon is going to be brought back. I assume Thoros isn't going to conveniently show up out of nowhere and do it unless Dave Hill wrote that arc.
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Apr 22, 2016 19:11
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Anarkii posted:If that's the end of Dorne I'll not be disappointed. It was pretty poo poo in the books too. All the scheming Doran did will most likely be inconsequential, and the chapters themselves were very boring. But if we're getting more screen time with Bad Pussy Brigade, then lol. All the North storylines are pretty interesting. I just hope they don't drag along Arya's training thing for another entire season. It's not the end of Dorne, it's just the end of the only good actor in the Dorne plot line. Now we'll get a whole season of bad pussy trying to start a dumb war.
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Apr 25, 2016 05:27
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I don't think I've ever seen a show bungle a storyline as badly as they did the whole Dorne thing. Did they even audition the actresses they chose? Because they're all terrible. That whole plot couldn't be a bigger disaster if they tried. Gonna keep watching because I still wanna know how it ends but gently caress this show just gets worse all the time.
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Apr 25, 2016 15:04
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LegalPad posted:Like all fanfiction, the more it departs from the source material, the worse it gets. The writers seem to be caught up in creating a bullet point list of which characters do what and completey neglect to flesh out the small details that really matter. I don't think everything they do that departs from the source material is bad. Case in point, some of the early season stuff they did was good. They added some excellent material to King Robert for example like his conversation with Cersei that was not in the books. So they're not incapable of writing good poo poo, but obviously a lot of the original material the past two seasons has been rear end. It doesn't help that like In It For The Tank said they're clearly winging it from season to season now. When they had a clear direction of where they wanted to go with the plot and characters then the original stuff they added was mostly good. It's easy to add stuff like Arya/Tywin, Robert/Cersei etc when you know where the plot needs to go and where those characters are going to end up. Now, though? They know broad strokes I think but they're clearly changing poo poo constantly. I doubt for example that they originally intended for Stannis to go down quite so easily like that, or for the Sand Snakes to kill Doran (pretty sure this is in response to the massively negative response to that whole plot line), or for Jamie and Bronn to go to Dorne, and they clearly had little to no idea of what Tyrion is supposed to be doing once he leaves Kings Landing. I just get a huge vibe of them making it up as they go now and with no clear direction beyond broad plot points. Things are happening in the plot lately because they need to happen, not because they've arrived there organically. We need an excuse for Dany not to sail to Westeros so her fleet is burned, we need Mel at the wall so Stan the brilliant commander stupidly charges right into a trap, we need Jamie to do something so let's have him go to Dorne, we need Doran dead so let's just have it happen, and we need his son dead too so his ladies get to teleport onto his ship and kill him despite presumably guards being around. Etc etc Ginette Reno fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Apr 25, 2016 |
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Apr 25, 2016 16:28
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:*ticks off bingocard* We already knew she was powerful. We didn't need more proof. It's a cool reveal but I'm not sure it served any narrative purpose. Just like Ramsay is a dick scene 500000000 doesn't do much any more for the story. We get it, Ramsay is a dick, do we really need another scene of him hamming it up?
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Apr 25, 2016 19:41
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lezard_valeth posted:Another petpeeve I have with this episode. Eh, it makes sense to me. At first they bring in Jon's body there in the hopes that he's not dead or that they can figure out what happened. After that they realize oh poo poo he was killed by mutiny which means any of Jon's friends (aka them) are likely to get killed too. So at that point they hide in there because Alliser is almost certainly going to kill all of them if he can. Davos probably figures he's going to get killed too. With Stannis and his army dead there's no reason for Alliser et all to keep him around. At best he'd get sent on his way, but since Alliser is a dick they'd probably just kill him too.
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Apr 25, 2016 20:05
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tin can made man posted:Except that they send Edd out of the castle with apparently no issue. Why don't the rest of them go with him? Because they have to guard Jon's body. Why do they have to do that? Uh????? lezard_valeth posted:My question is, why didn't they ALL went to fetch the Wildlings. One person alone could easily be intercepted and there goes any hope of being rescued, while the whole lot of them have better chances of reaching the wildlings and asking for help. Granted they would draw more attention, but the way the episode presents this, Thorne and co. were all too busy having breakfast to notice anything at all happening. It's a bit less suspicious if one person goes is about all I got for that one. Plus if they do end up having to fight the mutineers, it's obviously going to be easier to do that from within a fortified room than out in the open or wherever else. Lloyd Boner posted:It shows that Mel is disillusioned and needs some clarity. She is having a crisis of faith. Kind of like how the other more powerful Red Priest in Westeros didn't believe in his God at all when he brought a man back to life. I guess there is that.
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Apr 25, 2016 20:17
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Not sure they even needed to burn it since I doubt the average show viewer even remembers Mereen had a fleet. Not sure why the Harpies would burn the fleet either. You'd think they'd want Dany to sail the hell out of there so they can take over the city while she's gone.
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Apr 25, 2016 21:33
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The new Daario isn't a bad actor per se but yeah he's nothing like the character he's based off of. And not just because of the lack of blue mustaches. The dude is just too likable and fair handed in the show. Book Daario is a huge unlikable dick to everyone but Dany.
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Apr 25, 2016 23:44
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