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Your Dunkle Sans posted:Oh no! It's a spooky ghost! The Guardian reported that some ranchers showed up with "enough meat to fill four industrial refrigerators, replenishing the group’s diminishing supplies", so I guess eating T-bones or something? http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jan/05/tension-grows-as-militia-prepares-for-fourth-night-in-oregon-standoff
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Jan 7, 2016 04:32
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As a Millennial I posted:They've gone full sovereign citizen This prose, it brings tears to my eyes. Say simply no. Say. Simply. No.
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Jan 7, 2016 04:37
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I found this to be an interesting read for the conservative perspective on the whole situation: http://theconservativetreehouse.com...ly-persecution/ It's not hard to read the truth between the lines, particularly if you're cross-referencing with the Wikipedia article, but it gives some idea of how they feel that they're in the right, both on the Hammond case and on claiming the wildlife refuge for ranchers. I'll take a stab at some of it, anyway: Conservative Treehouse posted:(a2) During the 1970’s the Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS), in conjunction with the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), took a different approach to get the ranchers to sell. Ranchers were told: “grazing was detrimental to wildlife and must be reduced”; 32 out of 53 permits were revoked and many ranchers were forced to leave. Grazing fees were raised significantly for those who were allowed to remain. Clearly the only reason for halting grazing on a wildlife reserve was to force the Hammonds to sell their ranch. Conservative Treehouse posted:(a3) By 1980 a conflict was well on its way over water allocations on the adjacent privately owned Silvies Plain. The FWS wanted to acquire the ranch lands on the Silvies Plain to add to their already vast holdings. Refuge personnel intentionally diverted the water bypassing the vast meadow lands, directing the water into the rising Malheur Lakes. Within a few short years the surface area of the lakes doubled. Thirty-one ranches on the Silvies plains were flooded. Homes, corrals, barns and graze-land were washed a way and destroyed. The ranchers who once fought to keep the FWS from taking their land, now broke and destroyed, begged the FWS to acquire their useless ranches. In 1989 the waters began to recede; now the once thriving privately owned Silvies plains are a proud part of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge claimed by the FWS. Redirecting water to actually flow into the lake rather than in farms caused flooding of farms that were built on the floodplain? Clearly a conspiracy to drive out ranchers, not a considered effort to restore a damaged ecosystem. Conservative Treehouse posted:The study also showed the migrating birds were 13 times more likely to land on private property than on the refuge. When Susie brought this to the attention of the FWS and refuge personnel, her and her family became the subjects of a long train of abuses and corruptions. The refuge is still a relatively tiny enclave surrounded by private property. Given how much private property there is, I'd be surprised if it isn't just straight probability causing the birds to end up landing there.  quote:(c) In August 1994 the BLM & FWS illegally began building a fence around the Hammonds water source. Owning the water rights, and knowing that their cattle relied on that water source daily, the Hammonds tried to stop the building of the fence. The BLM & FWS called the Harney County Sheriff department and had Dwight Hammond (Father) arrested and charged with “disturbing and interfering with” federal officials or federal contractors (two counts, each a felony). Dwight spent one night in the Deschutes County Jail in Bend, and a second night behind bars in Portland. He was then hauled before a federal magistrate and released without bail. A hearing on the charges was postponed and the federal judge never set another date. Yeah, the reports of the Hammonds threatening land managers (there's a specific instance of them that they'd "tear off his head and poo poo down his neck") don't exactly lend a lot of credence to this tale of persecution. Conservative Treehouse posted:(i) In the early fall of 2001, Steven Hammond (Son) called the fire department, informing them that he was going to be performing a routine prescribed burn on their ranch. Later that day he started a prescribed fire on their private property. The fire went onto public land and burned 127 acres of grass. The Hammonds put the fire out themselves. There was no communication about the burn from the federal government to the Hammonds at that time. Prescribed fires are a common method that Native Americans and ranchers have used in the area to increase the health & productivity of the land for many centuries. Yeah let's see what Wikipedia says, based on the court documents: Wikipedia posted:The 2001 Hardie-Hammond Fire began, according to Probation Officer Robb, when hunters in the area witnessed the Hammonds illegally slaughter a herd of deer.[32] Less than two hours later, a fire erupted and forced the hunters to leave the area.[33] Later, Steve's nephew Dusty Hammond testified that his uncle told him to start lighting matches and "light the whole countryside on fire." Dusty also testified that he was "almost burned up in the fire" and had to flee for his life.[29][34] The Hammonds have falsely claimed they started the fire to stop invasive plants from growing onto their grazing fields.[35] But let's not get witness testimony under oath in a courtroom get in the way of fantasies about what happened. Conservative Treehouse posted:(j) In 2006 a massive lightning storm started multiple fires that joined together inflaming the countryside. To prevent the fire from destroying their winter range and possibly their home, Steven Hammond (Son) started a backfire on their private property. The backfire was successful in putting out the lightning fires that had covered thousands of acres within a short period of time. The backfire saved much of the range and vegetation needed to feed the cattle through the winter. Steven’s mother, Susan Hammond said: “The backfire worked perfectly, it put out the fire, saved the range and possibly our home”. Again, let's look at actual events per the court record: Wikipedia posted:The 2006 Krumbo Butte Fire started out as a wildfire, but several illegal backburns were set by the Hammonds with the intent to protect their winter feed. The backfires were set under the cover of night without warning the firefighting camp that was known to be on the slopes above.[33][36] According to the indictment, the fires threatened to trap four BLM firefighters, one of whom later confronted Dwight Hammond at the fire scene after having moved his crews to avoid the threat.[33][34] Two days later, Steve Hammond threatened to frame a BLM employee with arson if he didn't stop the investigation.[35] And a lot of the rest of it is pretty precious: Conservative Treehouse posted:(l) Shortly after the sentencing, Capital Press ran a story about the Hammonds. A person who identified as Greg Allum posted three comments on the article, calling the ranchers “clowns” who endangered firefighters and other people in the area while burning valuable range land. Greg Allum, a retired BLM heavy equipment operator, soon called Capital Press to complain he had not made those comments and requested they be taken down from the website. Capital Press removed the comments. A search of the Internet Protocol address associated with the comments revealed the origin as the BLM’s office in Denver, Colorado. Allum said, he is friends with the Hammonds and he was alerted to the comments by neighbors who knew he wouldn’t have written them. “I feel bad for them. They lost a lot and they’re going to lose more,” Allum said of the ranchers. “They’re not terrorists”. “There’s this hatred in the BLM for them, and I don’t get it,” the retired BLM employee said. Jody Weil, deputy state director for communications at BLM’s Oregon office, indicated to reporters that if one of their agents falsified the comments, they would keep it private and not inform the public. "We got trolled! On the comments section of an article on the Internet! The injustice!"  Conservative Treehouse posted:Dwight & Steven’s mug shots were all over the news the next week posing them as “Arsonists”. Susan Hammond (Wife & Mother) said: “I would walk down the street or go in a store, people I had known for years would take extreme measures to avoid me”. quote:Susan Hammond (Wife) later said; ” I have never felt so violated in my life. We are ranchers not criminals”. Poaching in a wildlife reserve and setting fires that nearly kill firefighters are, funnily enough, crimes. Being a rancher, strangely, does not preclude you from being a criminal.
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Jan 12, 2016 00:36
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Also a reminder of what these asshats are fighting against: The bird, or the beefsteak?
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Jan 12, 2016 00:43
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Crain posted:Nah, he ended that stream so youtube is processing it before uploading it as a video. He has control of when/if that goes up and can edit it as well. But this guy is dumb enough to maybe just put it up. It's up. The "pull the loving trigger now" comment is still in. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLHAQjIwC14&t=860 I've linked 10 seconds before for a bit of extra crazy rambling about how the sheriff is "in his chain of command", and Pete's going to get him to come and kick the FBI out. (The rest of the video is Pete ranting over the phone at the sheriff's dispatcher, who eventually hangs up on him.) E: Fixed url Lead out in cuffs fucked around with this message at 07:25 on Jan 17, 2016 |
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Jan 17, 2016 02:45
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Lycus posted:Heh, lots of supporters in the comments are pissed off by this. Yeah, I can't tell how many of those comments are from trolls, but a lot of it looks like genuinely pissed-off right-wingers. Apparently sending dildos to a bunch of social media-obsessed nutcases can't help but yield dividends.
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Jan 18, 2016 02:51
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Discendo Vox posted:Souce link please. It's not hard to find on his YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anStnML7D4s Edit: Interestingly, Blaine & Melissa Cooper, who the video names, are different people from Robert Finicum (Tarpman), who had the $100K/year foster kids taken away, so I have no idea what's going on in this video. http://www.opb.org/news/series/burn...m-burns-oregon/ E2: Apparently Blaine Cooper is another one of the militia guys. Maybe CPS has been taking several of their children away? "Freeing" kids from CPS is almost certainly kidnapping, though. E3: Yeah both Blaine and Melissa Cooper are listed as militants. Blaine apparently has a past conviction for aggravated assault, and they've both gone on "border operations". I'd guess that CPS had enough reason to take the kids away, between the prior conviction and both parents leaving their kids in Arizona to participate in an illegal occupation in Oregon for two weeks. Lead out in cuffs fucked around with this message at 09:28 on Jan 18, 2016 |
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Jan 18, 2016 09:01
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They took the video down. I don't suppose anyone saved it? E: Here's Pete Santilli talking about it, though. So far I've only got to him calling the family members who called CPS literally Nazis. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZC2dq74-_4 E2: Welp, check out the comments (from Blaine Cooper's father): quote:randy cooper 3 hours ago and from someone I assume is his brother: quote:terry cooper 2 hours ago Like the wildlife sanctuary, this seems like a strange hill to want to die on. Lead out in cuffs fucked around with this message at 09:41 on Jan 18, 2016 |
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Jan 18, 2016 09:32
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While we're on the topic of CPS, here's another article that was linked in those Youtube comments: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/01/05/oregon-rancher-heroes-accused-of-child-abuse.html I'd wondered why Dusty Hammond, the nephew, had been the one who testified against the Hammonds, as well as why it took so long. Turns out they were super-abusive. This included, when he was 16, them finding that he had carved someone's initials into his chest, then sandpapering them off. That might also explain why it took so long to prosecute -- Dusty was loving terrified of them, and didn't go to the cops until years later when he as an adult.
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Jan 18, 2016 10:09
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theflyingorc posted:I'm trying to read about it and I'm super confused about the timeline - who actually took the kids or whatever? It could be this: SocketWrench posted:Sounds more like they went to get the kids before CPS showed up and took them like tarp man's. Then, in their all too well known passion for "truth", claim they took their kids back from some threat agency Yeah it's hard to tell. Pete Santilli did imply that the Blaine Cooper's parents had called CPS. The top two comments on the video are from people claiming to be relatives. They could be trolls, but if you look at his responses, Pete's been treating them like they were real. Even if the kids hadn't yet been taken by CPS, my understanding is that once the custody determination has been made, it's still kidnapping to remove your own kids to keep them away from CPS. Perfectly Safe posted:Did Blaine Cooper go to get his kids? Santilli's words were that they are now "with their mommy", which I take to mean that Melissa Cooper went to go get their kids. There was also mention of a charter flight to "somewhere the government can't get them", so they may also have skipped the country?
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Jan 18, 2016 18:21
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As a Millennial I posted:
The way Blaine is responding kinda seems to suggest that really is his dad's account and not a troll. Perfectly Safe posted:If you can stand this, there's a bit of a video clip here:  I don't know who's worse. Anyway, that is the video that got taken down.
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Jan 18, 2016 18:28
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Your Dunkle Sans posted:Well, we did have an E/N thread here about a goon having his kids taken away by CPS because he blew the family budget on a gaming supercomputer, so we do have case studies right here on SomethingAwful! This was actually one of my first thoughts, especially after reading the YouTube comments that seem to be from Blaine's brother and father: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZC2dq74-_4 (Warning: that's a Pete Santilly video, so you may just want to hit pause and skip to the comments). quote:randy cooper 3 hours ago quote:terry cooper 2 hours ago It's eerily similar to the story of that goon from E/N. 
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Jan 18, 2016 22:58
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Discendo Vox posted:What does it say about FTFY.
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Jan 19, 2016 00:23
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Discendo Vox posted:Conrad Wilson is covering the "community meeting", which is happening at a private hot spring resort in the area (it's not fancy, despite the way I'm making it sound). About 30 people are there, and Ammon is trying to teach them sovcit theory. He's livetweeting it, and it's setting up to be comedy gold. Grem posted:Is this the meeting where they're supposed to give their exit strategy? I think this is it: https://twitter.com/conradjwilson/status/689290162124132352 https://twitter.com/conradjwilson/status/689291754659446784 https://twitter.com/conradjwilson/status/689298818349715457 Except ... https://twitter.com/conradjwilson/status/689294059215572992 https://twitter.com/conradjwilson/status/689305677408276481 https://twitter.com/conradjwilson/status/689306961037295616 And ... https://twitter.com/conradjwilson/status/689302947478376448 This could just be bluster, but it could also indicate that they're thinking about packing it up once they realise that not even the ranchers are with them?
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Jan 19, 2016 06:21
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Anosmoman posted:The whole thing rests on the assumption that the land can be exploited for more value than the refuge brings the community in terms of federal financial support, tourism, hunting etc. Somehow I doubt extended grazing rights is the only thing holding back a thriving cattle business and it seems the local ranchers are equally skeptical. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that about 10% of the town works for the BLM.
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Jan 19, 2016 06:45
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Discendo Vox posted:This is the triumphant moment of rejection I've been hoping for, in some sense. The Bundys got to make their pitch on their own terms and appear to have been soundly rejected. I hope Wilson writes this up, because it's a significant point, regardless of whether it's the tipping point-I hope it is. Oregon Live wrote it up: http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/01/oregon_standoff_leaders_urge_l.html quote:The signing ceremony – now set for Saturday -- is "a once in a lifetime opportunity," Ammon Bundy said. The next time such an opportunity arises, he said: "It'll be war." Well, two things -- "a once in a lifetime opportunity" is now a bit more sinister, and Saturday should be fun.  quote:The occupiers tried to allay their concerns by offering quotes from the Founding Fathers and reading aloud from pocket-sized copies of the U.S. Constitution. The passages, they argued, proved the federal government can't lawfully control land in the West. No, don't worry about being arrested, we have magical Consitution spells. quote:The federal government's sole role, they said, is to protect U.S. citizens from the outside world, including national defense, international trade, border security and almost nothing else. Well, they've stated their position, anyway. I guess this is basically the SovCit line? Also: quote:The occupiers have organized a "rapid response team" tasked with defending ranchers who agree to stop paying their grazing fees, he said. Welp.
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Jan 19, 2016 10:51
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You know, having dug through these guys' biographies, it really is a who's who of the most blustery right wing bloggers from all over the country. If the FBI play their cards right, the internet will be a much saner and quieter place once they're done with their prosecutions.
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Jan 20, 2016 00:30
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ozmunkeh posted:https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1061878580530261&id=1053081328076653&substory_index=0 Following on from that, here's coverage of the community meeting: http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/01/oregon_standoff_anger_frustrat.html Bundy and some of his crew attended, in a non-stolen vehicle this time (lol), and sat quietly while residents chanted "Go! Go! Go!". Meanwhile, counter-protests are slowly ramping up: http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/occupy-this-anti-bundy-couple-vows-to-camp-outside-oregon-refuge-and-torment-militants-until-they-leave/ http://katu.com/news/local/rally-planned-to-support-malheur-natl-wildlife-refuge-these-lands-belong-all-of-us
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Jan 20, 2016 09:57
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Mr Interweb posted:Most recent Military Times poll I saw says that there's a roughly 65/35 split in the military (well, at least the army) in favor of Republicans. I wouldn't be surprised if a ton of them defected to the militia's side against the tyrant Obummer. This would require that Republicans actually be in support of the militia. So far I haven't seen any evidence that Republicans - either those who vote that way or Republican institutions - are actually in agreement with them to any substantial degree. I may be wrong, and am open to evidence to the contrary, but even wingnuts seem to view these guys as the lunatic fringe. E: I also think it's likely that most cops on the scene have seen the video of the Kanes gunning down those cops at that roadside stop a few years ago. I doubt there's a lot of sympathy there either. Lead out in cuffs fucked around with this message at 02:58 on Jan 21, 2016 |
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Jan 21, 2016 02:53
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If anyone's wondering, here's an in-depth article on what the Paiute think of the occupiers: http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2016/01/19/oregon-militia-nuts-hold-paiute-history-artifacts-hostage-163116
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Jan 21, 2016 20:03
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Internet Webguy posted:If this is what people do right before committing suicide by feds it's pretty boring. There is something surreal about watching a guy complaining about the trolls on his Youtube channel while he waits to do just that.
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Jan 27, 2016 09:54
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It's fascinating seeing the walkaround though, particularly how empty it all looks.
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Jan 27, 2016 09:57
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Hexyflexy posted:And that's how a jammer works.
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Jan 27, 2016 10:01
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skaboomizzy posted:I guess their IT guy's feed got shut down or died or something. Too bad, I had fun unleashing my inner teenager posting in his chat. He's back. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DynE76yS02g
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Jan 27, 2016 10:08
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BattleMaster posted:I have, the only arrests seemed to have happened at a traffic stop and probably only because crazy tarp guy tried shooting at them. I'll believe the cops are actually going to the reserve when I see them since they jammed their thumbs up their asses for weeks of crazy armed guys invading it There's been some reporting (from actual news sources) suggesting they are going in. https://twitter.com/LaurenKTVZ
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Jan 27, 2016 10:12
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BattleMaster posted:I have, the only arrests seemed to have happened at a traffic stop and probably only because crazy tarp guy tried shooting at them. I'll believe the cops are actually going to the reserve when I see them since they jammed their thumbs up their asses for weeks of crazy armed guys invading it Also Kieran Suckling, who was leading the environmentalist counter-protesters camped outside the refuge, announced that they all pulled out earlier in the evening: https://twitter.com/KieranSuckling
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Jan 27, 2016 10:14
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https://twitter.com/occupied_burns/status/692274675146166272 Oh poo poo!
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Jan 27, 2016 10:16
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_cM8kmzxK0&t=465s "So here I am, all boogeyed out and ready to go, and you guys are gonna watch me die, live, on defend your base."
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Jan 27, 2016 10:29
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I think this got posted but lost: http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/01/militant_shot_and_killed_while.html It's a gathering of sources claiming to account tarpman's death. Apparently he was driving on of the SUVs, and when they were initially stopped, decided to drive off instead and charge a roadblock a mile away. Then, after the car got stuck in a snowbank, he charged the police, with his hands in the air, yelling "Shoot me!" It kinda almost lends credence to the story circulating about him. "He was shot with his hands up!" (while charging the police for the second time and yelling). Again, if true (not 100% sure but the journalist seemed to think the story checked out), he managed to get the passengers in the car, including an 18-year-old girl, shot at as well when he charged the roadblock.
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Jan 27, 2016 20:27
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Rodenthar Drothman posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7KRZQXdDac That guy has been posting videos for 36 hours straight. Assuming he wasn't going full nocturnal, he probably hasn't slept in two days. I'm amazed he's still posting, but from the slurring in that video, probably not for long.
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Jan 28, 2016 10:28
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It's looking more and more like a redneck music festival. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnMP7OsqWq8
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Jan 30, 2016 01:05
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Discendo Vox posted:Yes- particularly as reinterpreted by white supremacists in the 1960s in response to the CRA. I posted an article upthread that covers the general history of the ideology quite well. This is a fun article from a lawyer about the FBI's case. The best part: quote:Twenty years ago I prosecuted a tax protester who claimed — as one does — that the gold fringe on the courtroom flag made it an admiralty court. “I'll pretend you're a boat,” the judge said dryly and proceeded with the mundane business of the case.
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Jan 30, 2016 09:30
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trickybiscuits posted:This pisses me off so bad. The residents of Burns must be furious/terrified. Then I remember that none of these people are going to do anything for the four people left at the wildlife refuge and feel better. Someone earlier in the thread posted an excerpt from Finicum's novel, in which the obvious self-insert has been apprehended and interrogated by the evil government agents, but manages to pull out a handgun and kill them all. So yes, I think you're quite likely right.
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Jan 31, 2016 11:51
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We are people of We The People. New thread title?
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Feb 2, 2016 01:18
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Lead out in cuffs posted:We are people of We The People. We, the We The People people. We, the We The People of Harney County people, are facing off angrily with the people of Harney County.
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Feb 2, 2016 01:42
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Mr Interweb posted:Against who? Cliven Bundy. If you read the charges against Ammon Bundy and co, the main source of evidence is their own words spewed out all over the internet. The FBI were gathering evidence and getting their charges together, while giving the militants as much room as possible to incriminate themselves (they could have shut down cellphone access to the refuge at any time). There's no reason to believe they aren't doing the same with Cliven.
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Feb 3, 2016 03:07
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STAC Goat posted:Yeah, I've kind of been wondering what the hell she was doing in that van myself. Like, everyone else was a major leader in the protest or a bodyguard. Why was an 18 year old kid there? She was meant to sing at the rally they were going to. There's video somewhere of her singing at the occupied sanctuary earlier in the week. Also, IIRC there were a few other non-leader people in those cars.
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Feb 6, 2016 02:11
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As a Millennial I posted:https://twitter.com/carlibrosseau/status/695707281049014273 Amazing.
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Feb 6, 2016 02:16
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I dunno if this got missed in the past thousand posts or so, but Blaine Cooper apparently got arrested too. http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/02/blaine_coopers_wife_says_he_ha.html
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Feb 11, 2016 20:37
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chitoryu12 posted:All right here's my entire article in a Google Doc. Let me know if you see any mistakes or think I missed anything important! Minor corrections/comments: I'm pretty sure Tarpman got his foster kids money from the Catholic church, not tax kickbacks. It's worth noting that Dusty Hammond was 12 at the time they nearly got him killed lighting the illegal backfire. It may also be worth mentioning the Hammonds sandpapering off some initials he carved on his chest when he was 16. It may be worth noting that the dildo fire was in a barrel. There's a news report somewhere with the actual words "flaming barrel of dildos". Santilli definitely streamed the kidnapping, but I'm pretty sure he got the video from elsewhere, and wasn't actually present. (He was streaming live from the refuge right before/after posting it, and the kidnapping happened several states away.) I'm also fairly sure the kids were taken to relatives, not to the refuge, but I'm not sure if it's clear.
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Feb 13, 2016 01:27
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