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Lyesh posted:If you don't want amerikkka to come up, don't talk about how Islam is uniquely violent when there exists a military whose express purpose is to be able to fight every single other country on earth simultaneously. I doubt they could actually manage that, by the way, given how they could barely fight Afghanistan and Iraq simultaneously.
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Mar 22, 2016 22:01
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MysteriousStranger posted:That sort of depends on the government and who's in it. We've had plenty of leaders who admit our cockups, and we've had plenty who blamed them on other people. The military is a violent institution by nature, and we have plenty of bible bangers in office who do want a holy war and neocons who just want imperial wars. But that doesn't apply to all our leaders or everyone in power. Or they do wishy-washy stuff like: "When we sent a flying gunship to repeatedly bomb a hospital and gun anyone fleeing from the burning ruins, with multiple passes over an entire hour, it was a mistake. Our bad."
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Mar 22, 2016 22:27
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blowfish posted:
 That border wall all around the continent will also be useful to deal with rising ocean levels caused by global warming; and the hiring program to get enough secret policemen will solve the unemployment crisis.
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Mar 22, 2016 23:32
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, build a border wall around the continent with paper bag tests at the gates. Also put a secret policeman on every street corner.
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Nonsense posted:
Is she actually still relevant? Last time I heard about her, Dubya had not invaded Iraq yet.
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Mar 23, 2016 00:39
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OwlFancier posted:Possibly not investigating their children for looking a bit terroristy on account of them being a bit muslim. You're framing that as a chicken-and-egg problem. Also it's wrong, because Indians do look a bit Muslim. GreyjoyBastard posted:Is your hypothesis that a reimplementation of the Chinese Exclusion Act would not cause awful things? Yes, I remember when the EU passed the Muslim Exclusion Act. Maybe it should be repealed?
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Mar 23, 2016 05:53
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Pluskut Tukker posted:Yup, social exclusion, discrimination and racism in the labour market and society at large magically disappear after laws are passed to fight them, and these laws are 100% efffective. Also, if social exclusion is not a direct cause for any particular person to become a terrorist it can't be a contributing factor at all. Pluskut Tukker posted:Dude, I don't disagree that 'there's no 100% sure way of preventing people from getting sucked into a radical ideology, religious or otherwise'. But social exclusion doesn't mean poverty, it means not being part of society, and thus being more likely to lash out against it. Anyway, you can stop wondering; I don''t. SedanChair posted:This I presume will be in the schools where abuse is heaped on them? So what I'm getting is that the evil European is just too goshdang racist to ever allow Muslims to integrate, even when they have the best intentions and try to fight against racism they're still racist; and Muslims will always and forever be cruelly oppressed in Europe, to the point where they have no choice but to lash out and bomb people. Based on these data facts, there are only two possible courses of action: either relocate all Muslims to countries where they will be tolerated, or genocide all the horrible white people so that they will stop being so racist. I'm glad D&D is there to teach us that ethnic cleansing is the only solution to any societal problem.
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Mar 23, 2016 12:29
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Pluskut Tukker posted:I have absolutely no idea how you came to that conclusion from my posts. You claim they're terrorists because of White Man's Terrible Oppression, then when someone pointed out what Molenbeek's policies for the last twenty years have been you've said "no, they're still suffering from White Man's Terrible Oppression". If they're condemned to be unhappy forever even when the municipality coddles them as much as it possibly can, then the only rational thing to do for them is to seek happiness elsewhere.
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Mar 23, 2016 13:11
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Pluskut Tukker posted:R. Mute earlier in this thread posted information about labour market discrimination in Belgium (which exists in the Netherlands too, and probably every EU country); that problem is generally not solved by municipal policies, or even national ones. Labour market discrimination is solved by full employment. Newsflash, western Europe has a whole has massive unemployment issue and the only solution so far is to make jobs shittier with stuff like zero-hour contracts because a return to slave labor is the only way Europe can compete with the social, environmental, and monetary dumping of countries like China. And even if immigrant communities might have a worse time finding a job than natives, you'd have to be really dumb to think the situation we have is full employment for whities, total unemployment for Muslims. Frosted Flake posted:That's absurd. As I said look at how successful Lebanese and Iranians have been, their participation in Canadian politics, arts, the military, the economy. They chose to participate in Canadian society and were successful. Lebanese, Armenian, and Iranian immigrants have generally been quite successful in Europe too. A big difference is that they were often among the elites in their country of origin, and had a good level of education as well as some wealth. So they went on to become CEOs, ministers, TV stars, acclaimed authors... Whereas most immigrants from Turkey or the Maghreb were cheap manual labor with little qualifications. The sociocultural category of the parents has a large influence on the sociocultural category of the children, since upward mobility is restricted (and the economic neoliberalism of the European Union, with its emphasis on destroying free and universal public services to replace them with competing private for-profit businesses, also known as FYGM: the Absolute Dogma, has only worsened the situation, with no sign of it becoming ever any better) so it turns out that manual laborers with no qualifications beget manual laborers with no qualifications, regardless of faith and skin color. In the meantime, however, Europe outsourced all of their unqualified manual labor to China, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh... because this way they don't have to follow anti-pollution regulations, worker protection regulations, etc. and producing T-shirts by having children plunging their ungloved hands in carcinogens eighteen hours per day, seven days a week, allows the profit margin to increase by 3%. So all these second generation migrants find themselves without any job prospect, but natives with the same lack of qualifications are in the same situation. It's not racism, it's the free market and the ideology that private profit is the only measure of righteousness in the world. You'd do well to look at the number of converts in jihadists. Basically people turn to Islamic terrorism because communism is dead, so it's the only remaining ideology opposed to capitalism.
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Mar 23, 2016 14:26
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I think we need to understand the oppression that cultural marxists are inflicting on reactionary white guys, as this is the explanation for Anders Breivik. Also, we have to empathize with Elliot Rodgers, oppressed by evil women.
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Mar 23, 2016 15:56
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double nine posted:Tunisia seems like it's improved a lot. One out of 4 ain't bad, right? Right? Unfortunately, getting rid of a corrupt dictator and not becoming a theocracy hasn't been enough for Tunisia to suddenly get jobs and money, so the country's future is still unstable. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/22/tunisia-unrest-government-imposes-night-curfew-unemployment-protests-attacks
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Mar 23, 2016 22:11
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Volkerball posted:Of course not, and I didn't mean to imply that. Merkel's administrations efforts for one are probably the largest political attempt to extend a helping hand to people fleeing these conflicts of any country in the world. And of course I've seen the Refugees Welcome efforts and plenty of heart-warming things from Europe as well. But anti-refugee sentiment is certainly a lot more prominent there. I suppose it could be expected given that Europe's debate is more centered around "These people are coming here, what do we do about it?" rather than "should we maybe offer to let some of these people in," as well as the fact that Muslims are a lot more prominent as a minority sect in most European nations, but the fact remains. On the other hand, anti-Mexican sentiment is virtually absent from Europe, while anti-refugee sentiment is present enough in the USA to be one plank of Trump's platform (anti-Mexican sentiment being another).
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Mar 24, 2016 07:52
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Chomskyan posted:
And the study has been done in the USA, this magical place where anti-Muslim sentiment doesn't exist at all, which is why American posters are bloviating here about how Europeans are bad. And who can forget Straya's stop the boats and gently caress off, we're full slogans? Truly, Europe is the worst of the west. Volkerball posted:Canada has over a million Muslims in it, and Toronto is 7% Muslim, yet terrorism is basically nonexistent, as is anti-Muslim representation in the media and government. You'll notice the US also has an issue with terrorism, so that doesn't exactly refute my point. Especially since Canada is taking in more Syrian refugees than the US, with half the headache from white nationalists. It's not a pissing contest about who's the most enlightened and tolerant. It's about finding out where terrorism isn't happening, and why, and where it is, and why, to use that to guide strategy moving forward. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism#Canada quote:According to recent government statements Islamic terrorism is the biggest threat to Canada.[216] The Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS) reported that terrorist radicalization at home is now the chief preoccupation of Canada's spy agency.[217] The most notorious arrest in Canada's fight on terrorism, was the 2006 Ontario terrorism plot in which 18 Al-Qaeda-inspired cell members were arrested for planning a mass bombing, shooting, and hostage taking terror plot throughout Southern Ontario. There have also been other arrests mostly in Ontario involving terror plots.[218] http://www.buzzfeed.com/ishmaeldaro/anti-muslim-acts-reported-in-canada-since-paris Cat Mattress fucked around with this message at 09:41 on Mar 24, 2016 |
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Mar 24, 2016 09:35
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http://mondediplo.com/2015/02/06charliequote:Is discrimination against black people and Arabs because of their colour, or because they are poor? Racial bias in checking IDs, the cause of frequent clashes between young people and the police, sheds light on this. In 2007-08, two sociologists followed police patrols at the Gare du Nord and Châtelet-les-Halles metro stations in Paris. They examined 525 ID checks and observed that people identified as “black” or “Arab” were respectively 6 and 7.8 times more likely to be checked than whites. There was another important variable: clothing. People dressed counter-culturally, especially those with a “hip-hop appearance”, were 11.4 times more likely to have their papers checked than those in city or casual clothes. A white male in a hoodie and baseball cap (the uniform of working class suburban youth) was more likely to be harassed than a black man in a suit. Racism is a useful tool to try to pretend classism doesn't exist. You start by claiming that poor migrants can't get jobs because they're migrants, instead of because they're poor, and then it makes the FYGM policies aimed at increasing inequalities not seem like a problem at all! Keep feeding the idea that the problems are uniquely caused by cultural and ethnic differences instead of by the 1%'s greed, and you can end up getting the paupers to fight against each others while you laugh all the way to the bank in your private bizjet. You want to integrate the minorities in Europe? You start by eating the rich.
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Mar 24, 2016 10:08
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GaussianCopula posted:You have to read the whole study, where they describe their methodology. It includes creating 3 CV, one secular, one obviously Christian and a Muslim one. The Muslim candidate had https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Relief in it, which is linked to Hamas. Yeah no in this case I'd personally side with IRW 100% and declare Israel to be full of poo poo, as usual, since they haven't proved anything about their allegations and have merely seized an opportunity to disrupt a charity that was trying to make life less miserable for Israel's Helots. PROTIP: whenever Israel is telling someone is a terrorist, assume Israel is lying unless the terrorist status can be independently confirmed by a non-American organization.
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Mar 24, 2016 11:01
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shrike82 posted:Wait, you're saying that the Molenbeek terrorists were trained and armed by us? His whole point is that we're buying petroleum and natural gas, and therefore contributing to making these fossil fuel something that is sold, and therefore financing the Gulf countries, and therefore subsidizing Islamic terrorism. shrike82 posted:Nah, not really Europeans Are you trying to illustrate why you got this redtext av?
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Mar 24, 2016 16:02
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MysteriousStranger posted:MS13 isn't Mexican! Also, they do not commit suicide bombings and mass killings. If not MS-13, then whoever committed this.
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Mar 24, 2016 21:18
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MysteriousStranger posted:That's violence in their own state. Belgian nationals killing people in Belgium is also violence in their own state.
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Mar 24, 2016 21:35
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blowfish posted:So basically ISIS is a magnet for depressed and neglected tweens who are looking for the most I'm pretty sure many of them actually are shitposting wastes of time. They had a large social network presence and some skilled image manipulators for their propaganda movies. Like there were these western convert jihadists in Iraq that were complaining that they wanted to go back home because it was hard to recharge their iPhones when you're in a ruined city with no power.
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Mar 25, 2016 10:07
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Majorian posted:A bunch of people said that about Dylan Roof. They do about basically every mass shooter in the U.S. It's Dylann with two 'n'. Il avait beaucoup de N en lui. We don't bother trying to explain that Dylann Roof was radicalized by Black communities' failure to project a less-threatening image. In his manifesto, Dylann Roof said he started becoming a racial supremacist "after reading on Black-on-White crime" but nobody dignifies that drivel by arguing Blacks share a responsibility for these racist attacks because they did not do a good enough work curbing such crime. We're not trying to explain that racists have reasons for their crimes; that it wouldn't be happening if only Blacks were more accommodating to the sensibilities of racist hicks.
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Mar 25, 2016 18:22
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Majorian posted:If you're going to make the suggestion that the French government would be unable to get a warrant to raid and search a mosque under normal circumstances, I'm going to need to see some evidence backing that theory up. A bloo bloo bloo mosques shouldn't be raided because it will make the Muslims angry and then they will turn into terrorist Hulks. In the meantime, weapon caches were found in these mosques that shouldn't have been raided. I'm sure the faithful who went there would never have caused any problem if they had just been allowed to go on their merry way.
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Mar 25, 2016 20:54
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Majorian posted:Who said they shouldn't be raided? You: Majorian posted:I think they should only raid houses of worship if they're as close to absolutely, 100% certain they're involved in terrorist activities as possible. It has nothing with being more punitive towards Muslims. It's just a question of having cops do their drat job. Holding stricter standards for getting a search warrant on a place of worship than on anything else is dumb.
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Mar 25, 2016 21:45
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Majorian posted:I don't think so. It seems to me, quite frankly, that a lot of the Muslim community has been holding their hand out to European mainstream society for quite some time. Multiple articles posted in this thread talk about instances of Muslims trying to contact the authorities and say "Hey, my son/neighbor/friend may have been radicalized by ISIS, please help!", to no response. Maybe the police wasn't 100% certainly sure that the contact's suspicions were funded. Just like how Belgian police wasn't 100% certain a known criminal that Turkey said was a Jihadist was actually linked to terror networks, so they let him go. Majorian posted:What I am saying, is that even a little cultural sensitivity shown by the government as it tries to work with the Muslim community can go a long way. It's a tone vs. substance sort of thing. Sure, but there's a problem here: tone and sensitivity are all about feelings, you can't make something more subjective than that. What should the cops do, start a search by showing a video proving that they also break stuff during a search in a White Christian European's house? Distribute a form asking people to rate how the search was performed, and whether you found it A. very satisfying, B. satisfying, C. average, D. annoying, E. very annoying? Please circle one, and write in how we could make this search and seizure experience more comfortable for you. If you get your house, workplace, hobby shop, whatever searched, you're going to be upset about it, even if you aren't a Muslim. And since these things aren't an every day occurrence, people aren't going to have any sort of baseline on which they could objectively say that if the search had been done to someone else, the cops would have been nicer about it. I don't think this should surprise anyone, but if the cops are searching your house because they think you might be an armed and dangerous terrorist, the cops are thinking you might be an armed and dangerous terrorist. They're going to be a bit more on edge than if they were thinking you were a tax dodger. Another thing that shouldn't surprise anyone, but when you're looking for Islamic terrorists, you're going to be looking for them mostly among Muslims. I suppose in the name of equality they could also randomly search a Benedictine monastery or something. Oh, maybe a synagogue! They might even actually find a JDL weapon cache this way!
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Mar 25, 2016 23:35
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Effectronica is to racism what The Insect Court is to antisemitism.Majorian posted:They're certainly more likely to be radicalized and recruited. No one's disputing that. What we're arguing about is whether that is a mechanism of Islam as a religion, or whether it is a result of the discrimination, alienation, and lack of opportunity that Muslims routinely face in Europe. If those are the only two options you are considering, then you can try to take a look at Islamic terrorists in Africa (including Sub-Saharan), Asia, and North America.
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Mar 26, 2016 00:17
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Rigged Death Trap posted:Modern nuclear plants are incredibly hard to do something to without intimate knowledge of the plant itself and the physics involved. You can drive a supersonic fighter jet into a nuclear station and nothing much but a stain is left on the reactor wall. Yeah, in theory. In practice, though, it's a crock of poo poo. Nuclear plants are expensive, and spending money Is The Antichrist, so in order to Be Competitive, corners are cut aggressively. Low-level maintenance (like, janitorial stuff) is externalized to the cheapest subcontractors available, which thanks to the EU and Bolkestein are quite often from Eastern or South-Eastern Europe and don't even understand the local language. High-level maintenance for the nuclear reactor itself is done well because it's heavily regulated, but for other stuff (including stuff like backup generators)? Sorry but these things don't explode if they fail, so you can scrimp on them, and if you can scrimp on something you have the moral obligation to do so, any sort of spending that you are not gun-to-the-head absolutely forced to do is a betrayal of the shareholders. So it turns out that the stuff that is only needed in case of emergency is just not maintained at all. I doubt he'd take his security pass with him to walk the dog. He wasn't murdered on his way to work.
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Mar 26, 2016 13:26
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My Imaginary GF posted:It's not murder when it is conducted by the military institutions of a free and fair Democracy; it's murder when it is individual networks killing individuals, rather than military institutions eliminating military targets. He meant Rote Armee Fraktion, not Royal Air Force.
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Mar 26, 2016 23:28
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corn in the bible posted:can anyone explain why the ira's claim to catholicism less valid than anyone else corn in the bible posted:can anyone explain why slave-owners claim to protestantism less valid than anyone else You want to find a tu quoque, look for terrorists who are motivated by their Christianity, not for terrorists who just happen to be from a Christian culture. You know, you can. They actually exist (abortion clinic bombers for example). GaussianCopula posted:Given that it took Islam not even 50 years for their first major civil war, which arguably is still waged today in Syria and Iraq, I have a hard time agreeing with that statement. It took Christianity about 1000 years for the first major schism. Also, long-forgotten stuff like Arianism existed. Arkane posted:There exists inequality in large swaths of the world, including areas dominated by other religions. There has no doubt been terrorism and violence as a result of this inequality. Volkerball posted:It's not really a matter of ISIS having an opinion on the matter, and others having an opinion on the matter, and since it's all opinion, no one is "right." When you get into that area, ISIS' justifications for things are more like excuses to justify something they were going to do anyways, rather than an interpretation that they think forces them to do it. Islam is a tool for them in that way. Some things they can't even find justifications for, so they just lie about it. For example, the treatment of Muslims in their court systems. People are extorted, ransomed, tortured, and executed and they generally just deny that type of thing as western propaganda. My favorite story was where they were going to execute a man as "kuffar" because he didn't pay ransom, and they offered him a last meal. He refused it because he was fasting. They executed him anyways. A person in prison at the time said he heard guards talking about how they believed the man had really been an ideologically correct Muslim and they were kind of laughing about it. That's why it's always a struggle to get a grasp on ISIS' ideology. At some point, there's a line where Islam ends and the cartel begins, and that's a blurry area. Hypocrisy is the fundamental building block of any empire. corn in the bible posted:well we could have avoided invading a stable country to deliberately destabilize it on the basis of lies created by warmongers who wanted to make money from military spending Invading Iraq was the stupidest decision of the 21st century, but claiming the country was stable is giving Saddam a lot of credit. It'd have probably collapsed on its own eventually (see Arab Spring), which only makes the decision to invade it even more stupid.
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Mar 27, 2016 23:36
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