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Which Thread Title shall we name this new thread? This poll is closed. |
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| Independence Day 2: Resturgeonce |
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44 | 21.36% |
| ScotPol - Unclustering this gently caress |
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19 | 9.22% |
| Trainspotting 2: Independence is my heroin |
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9 | 4.37% |
| Indyref II: Boris hosed a Dead Country |
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14 | 6.80% |
| ScotPol: Wings over Bullshit |
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8 | 3.88% |
| Independence 2: Cameron Lied, UK Died |
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24 | 11.65% |
| Scotpol IV: I Vow To Flee My Country |
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14 | 6.80% |
| ScotPol - A twice in a generation thread |
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17 | 8.25% |
| ScotPol - Where Everything's hosed Up and the Referendums Don't Matter |
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15 | 7.28% |
| ScotPol Thread: Dependence Referendum Incoming |
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2 | 0.97% |
| Indyref II: The Scottish Insturgeoncy |
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10 | 4.85% |
| ScotPol Thread: Act of European Union |
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5 | 2.43% |
| ScotPol - Like Game of Thrones only we wish we would all die |
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25 | 12.14% |
| Total: | 206 votes | ||
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Pissflaps posted:I think the argument that Scotland could be notionally required to join the Euro without there ever being any real pressure to do so is reasonable. The EU have stated that they would not allow people to use the Swedish Euro model again but then these are different times.
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Jun 28, 2016 14:46
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IceAgeComing posted:I thought that we'd done the whole Euro thing to death last time? Although Euro membership is technically compulsory, ERMII membership isn't and that's one of the conditions for Euro accession. You just refuse to join or say that you'll put it to a referendum when the time is right, that's the approach of the Swedes and the best way of going about it. As I just said a few posts ago the EU did state they would not accept people trying the Swedish opt out again
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Jun 28, 2016 16:59
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forkboy84 posted:I'd rather we were having protests against Theresa May but apparently she's not quite so transparently deplorable so nobody seems bothered The sad part is if there was a GE tomorrow I think she'd probably win with an increased majority, new politics indeed. You don't have to be good, just better than the next guy. Also how did this happen? https://forums.somethingawful.com/member.php?action=getinfo&userid=135937 Coohoolin isn't even Scottish
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Jan 20, 2017 17:32
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vegetables posted:To make clear any attempt at emulating their policies here will be met by fierce resistance, and to show solidarity with women affected by those policies? It seems fairly clear cut to me. That and hes kicking around the political football of womens healthcare in foreign aid funding that they like to do. So he does directly affect people in other countries.
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Jan 25, 2017 09:42
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Niric posted:Well, she's not comdemning it, but she isn't (yet) doing the same thing here, so she's taking a "moderate" position in that sense (n.b. I don't actually think this is moderate!). What worries me is that this type of policy might be popular amongst a large minority, even here, and that that minority will have enough electoral sway to influence what politicians think. It's not just the racism, it's the real pushback against any kind of international outlook or transnational interaction beyond selling things to each other. This is the root of the problem, people like to pretend that thier politicians are cartoonishly evil characters doing evil things out of spite for the rational and reasonable populace. This just isn't true, people voted for trump explicitly to ban Muslims from the US so thats what hes done. Its called populism for a reason. It's what happens when people start in politics to reflect the views of society not to shape them.
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Jan 30, 2017 19:31
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I have to say that as someone who voted No last time but is very much thinking about switching to Yes I think a solid commitment to join the EU is a requirement. I just don't think trying to peddle the soft line to appease the Yes/Leavers is ultimately going to work. I also think before April 2019 is a mistake as well because we'll have no idea at all about what sort of shape Brexit is going to take which will cast doubt on any promises or predictions made.
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Mar 15, 2017 11:13
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Lord of the Llamas posted:I'm officially moving back to Edinburgh in 4 weeks time Good choice, I've lived here the last 19 years and it's still the best city in Scotland.
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Mar 17, 2017 14:39
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Coohoolin posted:I've only ever been started on twice, both times in Edinburgh. Like I say, best city in Scotland
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Mar 17, 2017 15:34
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forkboy84 posted:All joking about the rivalry aside, Edinburgh is nice. I haven't been much in the last...well, ever I guess, but it's a fine city. However. Best in Scotland is a bold proclamation. How is August for a resident of Edinburgh? July 12th in Glasgow was always loving horrendous and made me feel absolutely terrible about the city, the country & humanity in general, but at least that's only one weekend. But having visited Edinburgh in August for a day or two to see some shows, I can't really imagine what it must be like to have to put up with for the entire month. It's fine really, people make a big deal about it but it's not that bad. Town is busy but there's load of shows on you can go to which is good. Comparing it to the 12th isn't really fair as we fill the city with tourists, not just let all the resident shitheads parade around. It's pretty much a question of attitude I think, as soon as you think about 'putting up' with it you're going to have a miserable time. If you think about it from the perspective of what you can do it's great.
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Mar 17, 2017 15:40
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Juliet Whisky posted:Our nationalists really are different, I keep rubbing my eyes and blinking but they're still there telling Nazis to gently caress off and inviting people to come to our country. Basing an argument on exceptionalism is a really bad place to start from. It's why the SNP would rather you talked about civic nationalism not nationalism
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Mar 29, 2017 10:39
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jre posted:They are the same. I'm not sure a weird photoshop counts as evidence. There's plenty of cross over but not really the same.
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Apr 12, 2017 09:26
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I don't really see the SNP dipping under 50 seats
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Apr 18, 2017 13:39
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Pissflaps posted:Suspended SNP MPs Natalie McGarry and Michelle Thomson will only qualify for redundancy payments if they stand for election - and as they're suspended they would have to stand as independents. McGarry and Thomson are both new MP's with no entrenched backing the constituencies they were just the warm body to wear the SNP rosette last time, if they do stand which I think is unlikely then they'll lose their deposits.
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Apr 20, 2017 13:30
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Hoops posted:I believe in the general worthiness of polls, but I'm not buying 1 in 3 people in Scotland voting Conservative, I'm just not. 22% of people Voted Tory in the last Holyrood election so I'm not sure why you're finding it unbelievable in the current political climate other than clutching onto the false notion of Scotland as a liberal left wing country.
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Apr 24, 2017 11:29
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Niric posted:Hoops isn't being willfully naive here: 33% would be a staggering result, and the best tory performance in Scotland since 1974. More than anything, I think, it shows how two constitutional issues have completely reframed Scottish (and British) politics. Both for the worse, in my opinion. Whilst I don't think we'll reach 33% here I think close to 30% is not too wild. They got 12% in 2011 (SE), 15% in 2015 (GE), 22% in 2016 (SE). So between the GE in 2015 and the SE in 2016 they picked up 7% in vote share. Now granted there's a big difference between UK and Scottish elections but I could see them getting in the region of 25-28% total share.
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Apr 24, 2017 14:38
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Ive seen this a few times recently, what exactly is a 'yoon' in the parlance of a Nat?
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May 4, 2017 22:34
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Coohoolin posted:You're asking why Scottish leftism isn't voting the way it would in independence while we're not independent? You're hammering this point yet again and you're still wrong. There is no appetite for a left wing government in Scotland, pre or post independence. The dream of a socialist Scotland is just that, a dream, and not one founded in any kind of political or social reality. You claim the thing keeping the SNP in power is the lack of independence, again there's zero evidence that the SNP would fracture or support would melt away and not just become another ANC.
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Jun 7, 2017 13:40
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Coohoolin posted:Socialism needs decentralisation, atomising down imperial legacies like the loving UK seems an obvious prerequisite. You're Swiss aren't you, how's socialism working out in Switzerland? More people in Scotland are going to vote for right or centrist parties in the Election tomorrow than vote for left wing parties. You can't cast up FPTP as the reason for people voting Tory, they're going to vote Tory because they want to and feel it's the right choice. Trying to characterise Scotland as less racist than England is loving ludicrous.
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Jun 7, 2017 16:27
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Extreme0 posted:If you like Caroline Lucas then Patrick Harvie is pretty much the same but balder. Fixed for you.
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Jun 7, 2017 16:27
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Coohoolin posted:The biggest party in Scotland, and the party that governs Scotland, is openly, explicitly, and constantly pro-immigration and pro-internationalism in a way that Labour is not, and could not be for any electoral success. That''s a bit of a non-sequitur statement and doesn't address anything I said in my post. Scotland is easily as racist as England in general. The pro-immigration stance of the governing party doesn't alter that at all. The SNP did not get elected on their immigration stance, they could have has any stance and it would have made no measurable difference to their polling figures.
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Jun 7, 2017 16:39
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Coohoolin posted:I don't respond to anything else because comparing Switzerland to Scotland is utterly inane. I made the comparison because you seem to have this weird belief that the Scottish people are innately left wing, some latent socialism that's just waiting to be unlocked by independence. What I don't get is why you think this is true for Scotland and not any other country. Like why is it not true for Switzerland or any other small country. Certainly no polling backs up your idea, so where's it coming from?
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Jun 7, 2017 16:45
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cargohills posted:Didn't one of their recent manifestos support a points-based immigration system? Or was that the white paper? One or the other. The points based immigration system was suggested in the White Paper, not sure they've made any statements outside of that. Edit: Their current policy is a bit of a platitude and a call to reintroduce post work study visas, which is understandable as that was in the news so they want to sound like they care about it. In this BBC Poll from 2015 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-31800374 suggests there's a slight difference in opinion between Scotland and England but still a majority in favour of reducing immigration. Though there are issues with the polling and comparisons they make as they're collating data from different polls taken at different times. Aramoro fucked around with this message at 16:53 on Jun 7, 2017 |
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Jun 7, 2017 16:49
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Coohoolin posted:First of all, the polling- it's not really relevant, but the fact that the Tories have a much lower vote share in Scotland, that Brexit was overwhelmingly voted against, that Scotland hasn't voted Tory in loving donkeys, that doesn't mean anything to you? It also sounds like you're ignoring the fact that most Scottish socialists vote SNP in general elections. I'm not ignoring Scotland's voting record, As you mentioned later there's a natural cycle to politics and previous Scotland returned solid tory votes which moved to Labour then to the SNP. But nothing there suggests actually Socialists. I would be interested to see you backup your claim that most Scottish socialist votes SNP though, and hoe many there are. Not because I think you're wrong, I'm genuinely interested in where you got this from. Coohoolin posted:You're also misrepresenting what I said. I didn't say it was automatically to happen upon independence. I said independence is a prerequisite if it is EVER going to happen. But regardless, here's an actually interesting answer that's not just deflecting your boring gotchas: Not really gotcha's just trying to actually clarify what you mean. Do you accept then that Scotland is not necessarily more socialist than England? Just that if it were independent it would be easier to campaign for Socialism. Coohoolin posted:There's nothing innate about it. Political culture is a cycle of reflective influence between the electorate, the media, and the political institutions, and in Scotland this has led (thanks to effective pro-immigration messaging) to a far more left-wing climate than in England. It's a structural consequence various historical conditions and the narrative dominance at play up here. I totally agree it's far easier for a smaller group of motivated people to swing political opinion in a smaller country. So it would be easier to try to swing the balance towards socialism. But at the same time Scotland is just as racist as Switzerland or even England. I think Switzerland is a really great example of protected rights and a strong welfare state which is required for a progressive society despite being ruled by right-wing scum. This level of protection was not outlined in the last white paper on Independence which makes it feel like the SNP are not aiming for such a thing, which to my mind is a bad thing. Aramoro fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Jun 7, 2017 |
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Jun 7, 2017 17:15
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Coohoolin posted:There is a large SNP Socialists group within the party. Most SSP/RISE/assorted lefties I know will vote SNP in the GE because independence can have socialism piggy backed onto it yadda yadda. The vast majority of socialist proponents and writers and activists etc are pro-independence and recognise the SNP is the most effective way to get there at this time. I don't have any data or anything, this is just the result of me having spent 7 years in Scottish socialist circles as an activist, writer, and campaign organiser. Do you not think there's a chance of confirmation bias in that then? You've got no evidence but it's just something you feel is true. I', not doubting that socialists do vote for the SNP, I#m just doubting there's enough of them to make a difference pre or post independence. Coohoolin posted:I never Scotland is "more socialist" than England. I said it's less racist, which to me is backed up by the fact that the SNP can be massively pro-immigration without suffering electorally from it, and by the vast majority of Scotland v England experiences myself and every foreigner I know have encountered. But the SNP policy on immigration has been a points based system, a system last espoused by UKIP in this campaign. Though admittedly now they have no policy other than post study work visas because they got a lot of good press when we deported that couple from the highlands. Like someone else said, this is a policy they cannot actually affected so it's understandable it has little effect on their polling.
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Jun 8, 2017 09:00
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Thats a hell of an exit poll
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Jun 8, 2017 22:08
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keep punching joe posted:Well that was quite an election, and hopefully it has fired a rocket up the arse of the SNP leadership. This really, the SNP campaign was pathetic, no real policies or anything. Just vote for us to not get the Torys and thats terrible.
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Jun 9, 2017 07:53
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forkboy84 posted:The campaign by every party in Scotland was pathetic. Maybe some individual candidates did a better job of it but it was either "We're not the Tories" or "We're not the Nats". Though Labour and Tory could at least fallback on the fact that they wre campaigning nationally and had policies in their manifesto to talk about. It really feels like the SNP fumbled this election by not campaigning over anything that people care about. They said it was an election about independence but that goes no where if your opponents are actually talking about welfare spending, NHS budgets and immigration.
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Jun 9, 2017 10:19
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As Danielle Rowley is my local MP I just messaged her and she say's she'll be signing it as soon as she gets time near a computer. Which is fair enough as computers and working internet are rare commodities out there.
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Jun 13, 2017 09:33
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Pissflaps posted:Why did the SNP bring back dog mutilation? Because much like it says in that article, the SNP are the party of the left....wait the hunting lobby want something, why didn't you say so.
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Jun 14, 2017 09:32
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mehall posted:Oh gently caress off with that. Could you not just ban hunting with dogs?
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Jun 27, 2017 10:42
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keep punching joe posted:Carnivores once again being hypocrites about puppies but happy to continue with the mass slaughter of domestic farm animals. If we were killing and eating the dogs I would still say we shouldn't dock their tails. quote:It covers more than just that: Assuming their Spaniels or Hunt Point Retrievers, this is a hunting lobby bill and it's really a stretch to pretend otherwise. I mean the British Veterinary Association Scotland opposed the change and the Gamekeepers Association supported that should tell you all you really need to know surly. Aramoro fucked around with this message at 11:04 on Jun 27, 2017 |
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Jun 27, 2017 11:01
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It's not fair to say they achieved nothing. They stopped shops in England opening on Sunday.
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Jun 28, 2017 12:26
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marktheando posted:There is no reason the SNP can't form a coalition or confidence and supply arrangement with Labour. You are being silly about the SNP again Jedit. Well they said they explicitly wouldn't do that, the best they would do was issue-by-issue agreements. The SNP will never enter into a Confidence and Supply agreement with a UK Government as that ties them to agreeing with the budget which has a direct impact on the Scottish coffers. I mean you're looking at a party that opposed Sunday opening in England and Wales because of the tangential effect it could have on Scottish workers. There's no way they're signing up to Westminster budgets.
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Jun 29, 2017 14:29
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Angepain posted:I'm afraid I really don't follow this. In the event of Labour relying on SNP votes for a budget the party could easily a) extract some concessions in the budget and crow about how influential and helpful they are regardless of how tiny the concessions are b) make some serious faces about how the budget is not ideal in their eyes but while Scotland is shackled to the dreaded Union the SNP will do their best to ensure that the Tories are not allowed to rule over scotland look at how progressive and brave we are etc etc. A confidence and supply agreement says you'll support the budget as it's presented, what you're suggesting is going issue-by-issue. So thanks for agreeing with me I guess.
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Jun 29, 2017 15:21
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Angepain posted:Supporting the budget as presented would be b). So a confidence and supply agreement which they ruled out doing? They've ruled it out doing it, its not just theory-crafting on my part.
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Jun 29, 2017 15:52
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For the SNP its ideological and political, they can't be seen to prop up a UK government thry do not want to be a part of. The same reason Sien Fein don't take uo their seats really. We'll never really know if they would have gone for because the maths didn't support it this time round. But they certainly said they wouldn't do it.
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Jun 30, 2017 15:59
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Whilst I would disagree with the term 'poster child' he does have a lot of reach amongst digital pro-indy sources. He's got more followers than Bella Caledonia etc and he's the go to source for social media posts about Independence. I think everyone here would be happy if he just went away but he does have a dedicated following and his message does spread quite far, and far better than any other digital pro-indy source.
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Jul 27, 2017 09:33
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mehall posted:Oh goody. Hes posted in this thread for years in its various guises. You're not very attentive if you've just noticed.
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Aug 23, 2017 21:00
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forkboy84 posted:Maybe Scottish labour could merge with the Greens & just appoint Patrick Harvie as leader. The Greens themselves would do better generally if they would just appoint Patrick Harvie leader.
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Aug 30, 2017 12:14
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forkboy84 posted:How would that change anything? Bearing in mind that under Harvie & Chapman they are now the 4th largest group at Holyrood. Chapman has been proven to be divisive in the party with people refusing to campaign for her in her failed bid to become an MSP. It also adds to the feeling that the Greens are pulling in different directions quite often or have no clear leadership. I think it's a lot easier to credit Patrick Harvie with the increase in support for the Green at the last election, though perhaps Chapman does a lot behind the scenes.
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Aug 30, 2017 13:42
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