Binary Badger posted:

Actually part of the blame is alcoholism. Tom Sutton pencilled nearly the entire run of DC's Star Trek (the 1984-1988 Volume 1), which had only reverted to DC because Marvel* had somehow hosed up their TMP based series in Paramount's eyes. Tom was normally a horror comic artist, but looked forward to the chance to branch into sci-fi.

But as time went on, he began to literally resent doing Star Trek even though it was his bread and butter (for 50+ issues.) In an interview with Gary Groth of the Comics Journal, he cited two reasons: one, he began developing a drinking habit during drawing the series. The bar was only a block away from his studio.

Two, he prided himself on being a complete artist, he often preferred to ink his own art, but due to the pressures of delivering a monthly comic, they gave the inking duties to a fellow called Ricardo Villagran. In the TCJ interview, he refused to even name him, because Tom would often go all out and throw in lavish background details that he painstakingly added for realism, only to see in the finished art that Ricardo had literally erased or blotted out his details. DC liked Ricardo because he worked fast and could ink multiple books simultaneously, and didn't care what got blotted out so long as it was handed in on time. Tom said that his DC contacts told him that Ricardo was 'so good that' he literally inked his work while watching TV in bed.

Tom (who unfortunately passed away in 2002) went to the trouble of obtaining a Constitution refit model, photographed it from almost every possible angle, and cited that as the only reason for him being able to draw the Enterprise at all. Although he didn't mention getting an Excelsior model, it may have been him just deciding to phone it in by the time the Excelsior was being written into the story. I believe early issues will bear this out if you ever thumb through any of the reprints they did of Vol. 1.

* From what I recall of the Marvel series, they literally pulled new alien races out of their asses and concentrated on TMP-like stories and hardly ever showed Klingons or Romulans, one issue ends literally with Kirk, Spock and McCoy going up in an elevator spewing some dumb platitudes while some alien that's supposedly achieving its form of nirvana just gives them the evil eye. It's like Paramount only licensed them the ship's crew, technology, and the Feds and nothing else.

Farmer Crack-rear end posted:

I still love this bit that MikeJF posted in the GBS trek thread:

MikeJF posted:

"Needs a little pizzaz" "IGGY POP" "okay I'm in"

Also Rick Berman wasn't really involved in DS9, he just signed off on the scripts after glancing at them. Ira Steven Behr was the DS9 showrunner.

Behr was great. They asked him in to ask him about Enterprise as it was getting off the ground, see if maybe they could lure him on.

Behr's memory: "Rick called me up, it was his initiative. He asked me had I seen Enterprise, I told him no. He asked if I could look at it - they were thinking maybe of stepping back and that "this be another DS9 experience," whatever that meant. I didn't really think it over in terms of what were the chances of that reality happening again. They sent me the three shows, I went in, had a two hour meeting with Rick and Brannon. It was a very cordial meeting, but everything I said I am sure they did not like hearing. I would not liked to have heard it if someone came into my office and talked as bluntly as I was talking to them. Though again, it was done all cordially. After it was over I am sure they were uncomfortable, I was very uncomfortable, we shook hands, Rick said, "well, all interesting stuff, we'll think it over," and I never heard from him again."

Braga's memory: "I needed help. We brought in Ira. And he poo poo all over the show. I mean, he poo poo on the show like I have never heard. All the crabby internet stuff balled into one nuclear weapon. He hated the show, hated the characters, hated the concept, just thought it was a piece of poo poo. It was one hell of a job interview. I don’t even know why he came, to be honest."

and I still think that's just perfect symmetry because when DS9 was in pre-production, Braga would poo poo all over it in the writers' room. "A space station? Oh, so you're just gonna sit around and let the adventures come to you? *scoff*"

Sash! posted:

"Fight does not go well, Enterprise. We're attempting to withdraw and regroup. Rendevouz at...."

*guy wearing the box from a dryer pushes down a bunch of guys in t-shirts that say STARSHIP on them*

Timby posted:

So all this talk about the goofy-rear end Star Trek Online ships and how ugly they are reminded me of a quick and dirty Photoshop I made of the JJprise. I generally like the design (I'm a huge fan of the giant gently caress-off nacelles), but I maintain the ship would look about a hundred times better if the "neck" were moved forward. Thoughts?

Farmer Crack-rear end posted:

Blade_of_tyshalle posted:

Computer, load Ore no Counselor ga Konna ni Kawaii Wake ga Nai.



"Ohayou, Lejji-kun."

I think Rick Sternbach just popped a boner somewhere

MikeJF posted:

I can't remember if that was the one where he married a smoking hot half-Klingon-half-Romulan chick, or was that one of the other ones.

Gaz-L posted:

On the other hand, doesn't she just not appear in The Measure Of A Man, probably because they realised that she'd be the villain in that story?

After The War posted:

I love that they'd originally wanted that character to be Kirk - that the consequences of the stupid TOS Cold War politics would come back to bite him in the rear end and by killing him off they'd move out from under their predecessor's shadow... like officers on a Klingon warship.

Early TNG writers had some balls before Roddenberry stomped all over everything.

Nessus posted:

Just because people live in a pastoral garden in northern California in some cases and have pet leopards doesn't mean they wouldn't have problems, and I agree having people "not have problems" sucks, but I think that's one of the unique Trek "brand points" if we wanna get all markety. The future may suck, but it sucks in new, different ways, which derive from situations which were better than our own.

Instant Sunrise posted:

Was G-Rod the one who leaked that Spock was going to die in TWOK?

I do know that that leak forced Meyer to rewrite TWOK a fair bit, moving Spock's actual death to the end of the movie and adding a fakeout death to the Kobayashi Maru scene in the beginning.

Cojawfee posted:

Chaos on the bridge is a good watch to see how much Gene really hosed up early TNG.

Otisburg posted:

That really shows when you realize that they spend a good 5-10 minutes letting the audience watch Riker watch part I on the space TV to get caught up.

Didn't Picard also make him manually dock the saucer section or something in order to show he was cool, putting a thousand men, women, and children in peril for a last minute second job interview?

Apollodorus posted:

Where in ST canon is Sulu implied or shown to be straight?

Timby posted:

Dude loved having a cult of personality around himself. And he never liked to lose. I think it's in Inside Star Trek that Doohan tells a story about a weekly poker game held at Bill Campbell's house, and one night Roddenberry got in the hole to the tune of like three thousand bucks, and he kept on fighting to keep playing, until Campbell said something like, "Gene, shut the gently caress up, this is my house, and if I say we forgive the debt, then we forgive the debt."

Rhyno posted:

Sulu's sexuality is so repressed that in STIII he locked another dude in a closet.

HIJK posted:

I'm a little baffled as to why the TNG crew got movies besides "successful tv show." Otherwise we should have gotten the DS9 spy thriller we deserved

Cojawfee posted:

Star wars came out. A sci-fi movie can make lots of money so they brought back star trek. They continued with TNG because they still had sets and costumes and people still went to star trek movies.

Data Graham posted:

You buying?
I'll issue the command to the replicator if that's what you mean

OneThousandMonkeys posted:

P.S. I watched Chaos on the Bridge on the recommendation of this thread and it felt a bit too shallow. Would rather read a good book on the subject.

Timby posted:

Gene Roddenberry: The Myth and the Man Behind Star Trek. Very highly recommended; it does a good takedown job of some of the urban legends that Roddenberry liked to tell about himself (like single-handedly saving the passengers in a Pan-Am crash, or showing up as a police officer in a bar to scare the poo poo out of an agent so he'd read a script).

Tighclops posted:

Generations was a movie that would have benefited from a lot more time to tighten up the script and maybe it would have helped not to blow all that money building the stellar cartography set and those location shoots

Cojawfee posted:

They had money for these 19th century uniforms but needed to borrow DS9's Star Trek uniforms.

bull3964 posted:

You go from the TV show special effects to motherfucking ILM in the prime of miniatures. I'll grant them their indulgence, I'm sure the fans appreciated it at the time.

Trent posted:

Counterpoint.

I laugh out loud every time I watch it.

Velisarius posted:

What is with nerds and their dislike of the Ferengi episodes? Is it because they're extremely social and don't examine fungus on other planets or something? drat.

Baka-nin posted:

Pretty much, though I get the feeling that on TNG at least some of the creative team didn't really get that and played it straight, even though most Klingon centric episodes were about corruption in the highest circles of power in the Empire. I can't imagine what it must be like for all those none Klingon "citizens" of the Empire.

WickedHate posted:

But theft isn't rape, and even as far as theft goes, it's remarkably harmless. Still not [I]good[I] to take genetic samples without permission, but it's not exactly the same life altering decisions.

Baronjutter posted:

Hi TVIV star trek thread, I thought there was only the one trek thread in GBS. Am I allowed to post in both? I like startrek enough to post in 2 threads about it.

Astroman posted:

More fan films news...Star Trek Continues is premiering their next episode in September, as CBS did say anyone who was in production on an episode could finish it. They had planned 6 more, but are being cagey as to whether or not they willl do them. Seems unlikely.

New Voyages/Phase II is done. Cawley said he has "quit making films" but in a surprising move, CBS has given him one bone: StarTrek.com is promoting a set tour of his sets which are now under official license by CBS.

http://www.startrek.com/article/the-original-series-set-tour-to-open


"Sauce for the goose, Mr. Saavik."--it certainly sticks it to Axanar, and shows what happens when you play nice.

They are also letting him charge for the tours, so he is actually making money off Star Trek--legally! (and I'm sure CBS gets a cut of course) He can use the money to keep the sets and pay for the building rent/mortgage and power, etc...and I suppose recoup some of his personal costs. It also looks like the deal is he doesn't promote fan films anymore, and he is not allowing any fan films to shoot on the sets ever again.

Grand Fromage posted:

Timby posted:

Theiss and Cawley became really close friends. I believe a number of other pieces -- fabric swatches / uniform patterns and some other things -- were actually gifted to Cawley in Theiss's will.

quote:

Ticonderoga, New York (CNN)The beginnings of "Star Trek: New Voyages" can be traced to 1985, when James Cawley was a teenager. A big "Star Trek" fan, Cawley wanted an authentic uniform, so he decided to try to get one made by the costume designer from the original 1960's show.
"One afternoon I called information, dialed the operator, got the Paramount number and asked for the costume designer," Cawley remembers. "And he answered the phone!"

William Ware Theiss and Cawley hit it off instantly. It was the beginning of a friendship that boldly sent Cawley deeper into the "Star Trek" universe than any fan has gone before. Soon after the call, the men met in Los Angeles, where Theiss gave Cawley patterns and fabric samples to help him make his own authentic "Star Trek" uniform.

"He was a very sweet guy," Cawley says. "I think he saw in me ... a teenager that was very driven, and very interested in what he had created."
Cawley maintained his friendship with Theiss as he built his life and career. His day job? Elvis impersonator.

"For 26 years I have been on stage," Cawley says. "I'm not the guy that would marry you in the chapel in Vegas, but I'm the guy that has an orchestra and plays in casinos."

When Theiss died in 1992 he gave Cawley a special gift: the blueprints to the sets of the original "Star Trek" show.

Rather than hold on to the piece of memorabilia, Cawley decided he would recreate the sets, starting with the famous bridge of the Starship Enterprise. In between his Elvis gigs in the late '90s, Cawley began building the bridge with his grandfather. They missed no detail, down to the color of buttons and the style of the chair used by Capt. Kirk.

With the bridge built, Cawley decided to fulfill another one of his "Star Trek" dreams: creating his own "Star Trek" TV show.

"I always wanted to play Capt. Kirk," he says.

In the early episodes of "Star Trek: New Voyages," he led the Starship Enterprise. His friends, who were also big fans, filled in the other roles. They brought in their own cameras to film and wrote original scripts. The first episode was released in 2003, before there was Youtube, Vimeo and Facebook. Cawley and his friends posted the episodes to their website.

"The Internet was in its infancy when we started," Cawley says. As video sharing sites grew, they "really opened the doors a lot to more people getting involved."

Today around 200 people volunteer their time to produce each episode of "Star Trek: New Voyages." The show is filmed in an old dollar store in Ticonderoga, New York. Each show takes about four to six months to produce, and costs about $50,000, all donated by fans. People have come from all 50 states and as far as Germany and Australia to give their time, money and passion to the show.

"Each time we film an episode we get better," Cawley says.

Almost the entire set of the original show has been recreated and there are 11 episodes of "Star Trek: New Voyages" available online. Professional actors fly in to play Capt. Kirk, Spock and the rest of the crew of the Enterprise. The most popular episode has 60 million views.

Among the early viewers were some lawyers at Paramount; the show's success earned Cawley another call with the production studio in 2003.

"'Let us sort this out' was the way they said it, and for a week we were unglued," Cawley remembers. "They called us back and said, 'We have looked at what you are doing, and we get it. Just don't make any money. Have a good time, and we are going to look the other way.'"

When Cawley talks about the future of the show, he gets emotional.
"I never thought we would be able to pull it off," he says. "For me, it's about 'How do I maintain it? How do I keep it going?' I think a big piece of me would die if it were to go away."

Cat Hatter posted:

Changing the warp scale for next gen was an awful idea. Just tell the writers if they use warp 10+ they'll get punched in the dick. Or if you absolutely need an exponential scale with "infinity" on it, leave some room for growth instead of going to warp 9.7 in the first loving episode.

Nessus posted:

I think they resolved this in the TNG tech manual by saying the impulse drive uses low-power warp fields or some poo poo to shoot out the ionized ship poots faster, so as to make the engine go better. Meanwhile you could also use the warp drive to scoot at impulse speeds if your impulse engines got blown out somehow.

They also seemed to suggest that the warp factors were actually like steady cruise speeds that were energetically cheaper to stay in, so you'd use less gas antimatter if you cruised in fifth gear Warp 6 vs. Warp 5.8 or 6.1.

Cat Hatter posted:

I'd be fine with The Traveler making the Enterprise go Warp 15 if there was a short clip after the credits of Diane Duane and Michael Reaves being punched in the (lady)dicks.

CharlieWhiskey posted:

It's amazing they got off easy with, "sorry i killed ur guys bro, i was hypnotized"

Timby posted:

- He screwed David Gerrold out of credit for much of the creation of The Next Generation, even though Gerrold was responsible for almost all of the initial writers' bible

Baka-nin posted:

If the leader of the Army Council of the IRA was on television he would've been assassinated shortly after, your thinking of the spokespeople of Sinn Fein. The Oxygen of publicity law applied to all political groups deemed extreme in Northern Ireland, it was weird and pointless, and helped contribute to the continuation of violence since paramilitaries viewed it as a sign that the British government wasn't interested in negotiations. Which given that Thatcher once thought the Cromwell solution (mass ethnic cleansing) would being peace to the six counties, yeah they probably weren't.

I watched the episode again now TNG's back on Netflix and I'm impressed they tried to tackle terrorism, but its just abundantly clear that the writing team didn't really understand the subject at all. They also bungle the standard moral solution that TV trots out when trying to tackle violence. The ending has a kid refuse to shoot the officer of the police/army and that's portrayed as a positive step to ending the conflict, but the Enterprise crew have led the army into the rebels main base, got the leader killed, and he was running the whole show, so it looks like one side has triumphed through force of arms. So if we were to apply the message of the episode to Northern Ireland, we would learn that peace will come after the British Army decapitates the Republicans leadership and the survivors give up on a lost cause.

Which given how Trek usually deals with conflicts makes this episode a sort of anti Trek.

Tighclops posted:

I'm hoping they've taken it down due to an overwhelmingly negative response

Big Mean Jerk posted:

So there's definitely a decloaking sound at the very end of the teaser.

What if the registry is a red herring? What if this actually is set in the future of the TNG timeline? Klingons join the Federation, there's a big technology share, Starfleet restarts the registry numbering, and that's why Discovery looks like an unholy mashup of the two design languages.

Big Mean Jerk posted:

I don't mind it, but it doesn't make much sense. What happens when you build a ship wider than the doors? Suddenly your huge gently caress-off spacedock isn't compatible with the newest ships.

FlamingLiberal posted:

Yes, which is odd why they would bring Chris Hemsworth back for the 4th one

Tunicate posted:

Star Trek 1: Enterprise destroyed
Star Trek 2: Enterprise destroyed
Star Trek 3: Enterprise destroyed
Star Trek 4: Enterprise destroyed????

Tunicate posted:

It was totalled when they blew themselves up to escape a black hole. Technically in one piece but...