uspol november: as it turns out they could not stump the trump

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > uspol november: as it turns out they could not stump the trump

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Kilroy: Oct 1, 2000

jwang posted:

I'm actually not that bothered with Hillary not winning the election. In fact, I'm now in total anarchic mode, hoping to see everything burn to the ground. Maybe 2000-2008 didn't burn deeply enough into America's memory, but hopefully 4 years of Trump will, and people will learn to not vote for the hate machine.

The people were the real hate machine all along.

# ¿ Nov 9, 2016 15:37

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 10:50

Kilroy: Oct 1, 2000

z0glin Warchief posted:

The Dems really are completely shut out at every level, outside a few stronghold states, aren't they? Does this trace back to the DNC ditching Howard Dean and the 50 state strategy?

Unequivocally yes.

# ¿ Nov 9, 2016 16:19

Kilroy: Oct 1, 2000

Lightning Knight posted:

People on this forum immediately jumped to "Bernie would've won, discounting racist white people was a mistake, we have to pander to racist whites to win, no war but the class war." Running white class identity candidates like Bernie is the logical conclusion to this. Which won't work because white people care more about race than class here.

So what coalition can the left cobble together if it isn't on class lines nor on racial lines? Or should we just stick with racial politics in spite of this election?

One thing that bothers me is the assumption that minorities respond better to racial politics and coalition-building compared to class politics. How do we know that to be the case?

e: Also, for what it's worth, I'm glad to see you're still posting.

Kilroy fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Nov 9, 2016

# ¿ Nov 9, 2016 16:40

Kilroy: Oct 1, 2000

Periodiko posted:

Here's a more interesting question: why did institutions like the media lose the trust of so many people in the first place. Be careful, you have to treat the public as human beings to find an answer.

Around the time they stopped being an institution in the first place. They have a profit motive which comes first, and while I'm not sure what to do about that (obv public funding of basic journalism won't happen any time soon) it does mean they can't really be counted among basic pillars of civilization in the way that, e.g., a fire department is.

Lightning Knight posted:

Look at how poorly minorities respond to Bernie, a candidate who dismisses BLM and has advocated for keeping Mexican immigrants out in the past. If the Dems run on that platform minorities start abandoning them in droves and white working class people will stifle all race issues with "no war but the class war."

Racism is still very real and minorities still experience uniquely racial problems. You can't fix that with just economic policy.

I don't think we should abandon racial identity politics either but I don't think "no war but class war" is wrong in spirit (which is to say, there are other wars, but I find I'll generally agree on most things - including racial things - with a person who says that).

Like, after the primary that was taken as a validation of identity politics and as evidence that class politics don't have a place in the Democratic party. Yes, the Democratic platform did adopt many policies steeped in that, but the voting public generally doesn't take that very seriously because they perceive (often wrongly, I acknowledge this) that the platform is meaningless anyway. Hillary did not run a campaign based to any large degree on class consciousness, and frankly I'm not sure she could have even if she wanted to. I didn't personally mind that class took a back seat to race in this election because I knew that Hillary was pretty left-wing, that the DNC platform was very progressive already, and so on. But then we lost the election and welp.

It seems like class has to fit into how the Democrats speak to the electorate, or they're going to keep losing. Do you see this as identity politics having to "make room", and if so do you think that's unfair or wrong (or maybe, that it just wouldn't work)?

# ¿ Nov 9, 2016 16:57

Kilroy: Oct 1, 2000

By the way I've said it like a billion times but there's going to be an expansion of the SCOTUS sometime in the next 20 years I bet.

It might be from the Democrats gaining control of government and ramming it through, or it might be from the GOP anticipating this and beating them to the punch, but it's gonna happen.

# ¿ Nov 9, 2016 17:00

Kilroy: Oct 1, 2000

Lightning Knight posted:

I think the brogressive plan of emphasizing white working class grievances will fail because a) white liberals and progressives would jettison PoC and women's issues in a heartbeat if they could and b) white working class grievances include "gently caress Mexicans."

a) As a white liberal (or leftist, I think after this election) and progressive I think you're really not being fair. I am especially loving furious about the treatment of PoC by police and the hypocrisy in portrayal of BLM, and have yelled at people in my social circle (and trimmed people from my social circle) as a consequence of this. White liberals will probably not always be as dependable an ally as you want or need, but they are an ally nonetheless. They won't and shouldn't lead the fight or anything, but they will fall in line, and have fallen in line. And yes, I have read the quote from MLK and while he was not wrong he was also not speaking about white liberals in 2016.

Finally, for what it's worth, right now I guess I'm mainly telling you this because you seem to have lost all hope for the future as a result of this election. I can't say that's irrational or anything, but anyway you're not alone.

b) Yeah well that's not going to fly. We're all going to be doing a lot of thinking re: where to go from here, but the Democratic platform going forward will certainly not be anything that could be said to resemble that, and if it is I won't vote for them and neither will a lot of other people.

# ¿ Nov 9, 2016 17:21

Kilroy: Oct 1, 2000

Pakled posted:

I could possibly see this passing if it comes in a president's second term and the expansion takes place during the next presidential term. That seems like a fine compromise.

Nope it's going to be a fully partisan move done while one or another branch has control of government. The Right doesn't mind politicizing nominally-impartial institutions anymore, and I suspect the Democrats' desire for decorum is going to evaporate soon as well (this is really bad of course).

The GOP might do it next year if they think of it and have the balls.

# ¿ Nov 9, 2016 17:23

Kilroy: Oct 1, 2000

mintskoal posted:

The GOP has maintained that the post 2008 recovery wasn't a recovery at all. I don't have any faith that they'd own a second crash. They'd blame Obama's policies without batting an eye.

Either way it's all speculation at this point.

They tried to blame 2008 on Carter and got some of that to stick, so yeah. Also Obama's response to Katrina and getting us involved in Iraq.

One thing this election hasn't changed my mind about at all is that there is a substantial portion of the electorate that is just a lost cause. Some of the Trump votes can be got, but for most of them trying would be a waste of time.

# ¿ Nov 9, 2016 17:32

Kilroy: Oct 1, 2000

Lightning Knight posted:

You. Can. Not. Appeal. To. A. Coalition. Built. On. Racism. Without. Being. Racist.

A coalition built on class consciousness and identity politics is not built on racism.

# ¿ Nov 9, 2016 17:34

Kilroy: Oct 1, 2000

Lightning Knight posted:

The Trump coalition is built on racism. His platform was literally "gently caress immigrants and foreigners." White working class people abandoned the Dems for that platform.

What do you think we could do to win them back? I frankly don't think Obama could win in 2020 even if he were allowed to run.

I don't get this post considering I just said that the vast majority of Trump supporters are too high off the smell of Bannon's farts for us to ever hope of reaching them. I don't have a problem giving up on them (and I've been flamed multiple times in USPOL for my suggestions to effect of burning rural America to the ground and salting the earth). And white working class voters abandoned the Dems a long time ago. Probably before you were born.

So to be clear: I'm not suggesting some kind of Trumpism-for-Leftists here, or whatever it is you think I'm saying. All I'm actually saying is that class issues need to be an active part of the Democratic platform and its messaging going forward. That doesn't mean identity politics are out or that they take a back seat. To the extent resources in the form of airtime and speeches are a limited resource, I guess you can argue that means identity politics gets pushed aside? They're sharing the stage though - you can have both.

# ¿ Nov 9, 2016 17:45

Kilroy: Oct 1, 2000

Frankly all this triangulating talk is reminding me of why the Democrats lose elections in the first place so how about this:

The end-game for leftism is socialism, if perhaps supported in part by some neutered market economy. So don't lose sight of that and don't try to hide it. At the same time American institutions are racist as poo poo so making triage of that also part of your messaging and then doing something about it if you're elected is also a Good Thing.

# ¿ Nov 9, 2016 17:50

Kilroy: Oct 1, 2000

Martha Stewart Undying posted:

You can't have both when one side is responding well to, "minorities? gently caress them!"

Why not?

You seem to suggest the approach from the Left should be dictating by whatever the Right happens to be doing. We know how that works out now.

# ¿ Nov 9, 2016 17:54

Kilroy: Oct 1, 2000

Tight Booty Shorts posted:

I sincerely hope Obama is the last democratic president. We need a new party. The Democratic Party is completely toxic.

starting a new party brb

ah what should I call it

# ¿ Nov 10, 2016 04:21

Kilroy: Oct 1, 2000

Quick Draw McGraw posted:

Clinton caused the market crash and housing bubble dude

no that was carter, clinton hollowed out the rust belt when he conceived of, wrote, signed and then implemented nafta

get your facts straight

# ¿ Nov 10, 2016 04:25

Kilroy: Oct 1, 2000

Pollyanna posted:

communist

nah that has bad optics

do we still care about optics, do we still say that word - anyway bad optics

I want something with "Left" or "Leftist" in it like "American Left Party" but the alliteration there is bad

it's gotta be punchy but describe our goals reasonable well which is full communism now, also the animal's gonna be a bald eagle so we can get out in front of the patriotism stuff

# ¿ Nov 10, 2016 04:28

Kilroy: Oct 1, 2000

by the way if I was going to run for public office where is a good place to start serious post. I live in a solid blue state

like should I look at statehouse stuff or just say gently caress it and run for House rep for some reason, and if the democratic party is toast then what third party should I pick or should I just make up my own to avoid the bullshit

# ¿ Nov 10, 2016 04:32

Kilroy: Oct 1, 2000

Tight Booty Shorts posted:

American Worker's Party

that's lame and most people don't identify as a "worker"

like 1920s-1930s leftism isn't coming back, time to fully digest and accept this fact

# ¿ Nov 10, 2016 04:35

Kilroy: Oct 1, 2000

fadam posted:

I haven't used this tablet in a while and the page I opened my Awful app to was US Pol before the election lmao how times change. What cool abuela names have you guys come up with since last night?

The Dead Abuela.

# ¿ Nov 10, 2016 06:04

Kilroy: Oct 1, 2000

So when ACA is repealed is that going to fall on the states or is stuff like in e.g. MA going to be dead and buried as well? Basically I'm wondering what the options are for blue states to shore up their health care systems in the aftermath of detonation of the ACA at the national level. Have the GOP made any noise about, like making state exchanges illegal or whatever?

# ¿ Nov 10, 2016 06:25

Kilroy: Oct 1, 2000

The Ninth Layer posted:

The entire political left is dead. We're all sitting on the sidelines watching the Trump Show now. Optimistically we'll be sitting here until 2020.

Eh the Democratic party is "dead", not the left. And, the Democratic party may have an actual future if it manages to purge the DLC types for good.

On the other hand if Chuck Schumer is still King poo poo of the DNC next year then the Democratic party is turbofucked.

# ¿ Nov 10, 2016 06:29

Kilroy: Oct 1, 2000

The Ninth Layer posted:

Republicans control all three branches of government and will for at least the next four years. They'll pick up more seats in 2018. They'll set up for even more voter suppression, which was their explicit strategy this year.

We are in uncharted territory at this point and you have no actual reason to be this sure about the future after this week. I do think you're probably right, but I will also say that Democratic control of the House and Senate in 2018 will surprise me a hell of a lot less than Donald loving Trump being elected the 45th POTUS.

# ¿ Nov 10, 2016 06:34

Kilroy: Oct 1, 2000

The Ninth Layer posted:

As far as political power goes the left as a force is dead. I'm sure people will keep protesting and making noise, but in the meantime all the people that were actually elected will have no reason to listen to our political voice. They control the high ground now.

I'd be happy to see some light at the end of this tunnel. But it's a long loving tunnel and all I'm seeing right now is darkness.

What I'm getting at is that "Progressives" (which are about the best we can do wrt to having a left in the US right now) stand a reasonable chance of really seizing control of the Democratic party. The DLC and Clintonite Third-Way bullshit might actually be on the way out for good, which is a silver lining I take from this otherwise awful week. We'll see how it goes. I'm going to be watching Chuck Schumer's career very carefully now - if he's the de facto leader then the Democratic party as it stands is lost and the only hope for it will be primary challenges in 2018. And, if that doesn't happen, then at that point I will agree that the Democratic party is lost to the left, and also probably that no other leftist party will be able to rise up to take its place nationally. At that point we'd have no hope for a leftist choice - even a compromise faux-leftist one, for a generation.

poo poo's bleak. All hope is not lost, though not much is left, either.

# ¿ Nov 10, 2016 06:39

Kilroy: Oct 1, 2000

Lessail posted:

can we at least all agree that all these democrats giving into trump and talking about putting aside their differences need to be voted out? Because gently caress them and their spinelessness

No, that is national unity stuff and it's good they're doing it especially now. They're not - at least, some of them are not - doing that as a play to siphon off some GOP votes next election. They are doing it for the sake of pretending we still have a functioning government. Like, a smooth and peaceful transition of power to Donald Trump is better for the country than, I don't know, half the Congressional Democrats just not showing up to work or something.

If we start seeing a bunch of little Liebermans popping up here and there, then your sentiment is completely justified for them. For now, it's premature.

# ¿ Nov 10, 2016 06:45

Kilroy: Oct 1, 2000

The Ninth Layer posted:

Seizing control of the Democratic party will not mean much when the Dems not only have no presence in any branch of government but also have a huge uphill climb to retake any of them. IDK, yes in the long run everything cycles out and eventually we'll have progressives in charge. But I have no confidence in that happening any time soon, so at the moment I'm really scrambling to feel any kind of optimism about the future.

I don't think you understand: putting the Democratic party in the hands of popular progressives is how the Democratic party (maybe) reestablishes itself in national politics. It might not even work but the Clintons are dead - totally dead and anyone subscribing to Third Way stuff is going to have an increasingly hard time justifying themselves in the face of "Bernie Sanders would have won" (even if that statement can't be made with the surety some think it can).

# ¿ Nov 10, 2016 06:55

Kilroy: Oct 1, 2000

The Ninth Layer posted:

Like real talk we have a fair shot at the presidency in 2020. Maybe the Senate if 2018 isn't a total bloodbath. We'll be lucky if the Supreme Court is up for grabs in any form by then. I just have no faith that for example our R-led House and Senate won't try to pass "voter reform" laws that eliminate early and mail-in voting and require some archaic voter ID law, and then we have to fight against that and gerrymandering and the right-wing lies machine.

The Democrats can and should expand the SCOTUS to 15 members as soon as / when / if they control government (it's about time anyway as politics aside the districts are unwieldy at this point). Assuming the GOP doesn't beat them to it, which is a possibility.

Also an additional benefit to the total politicization of our institutions (e.g., FBI, stonewalling Obama judicial appointees including Garland) is that there is less holding back the Dems from just impeaching the Justices they don't like as soon as they are able, and removing them from office. I mean a lot of the sanctity and continuity of the Supreme Court rests on decorum and precedent, not law, and we have at least one party that has thrown decorum and precedent right out the window. I think the Democrats are better off joining in, at this point.

# ¿ Nov 10, 2016 07:04

Kilroy: Oct 1, 2000

Lessail posted:

Look, we both know how this is going down

Do we? Progressives were already ascendant in the party before this election and the perception, right or wrong, is that establishment Dems hosed them out of the nomination and that they would have won if they'd gotten their guy in. I think progressives will ultimately come out of this energized, and the DLC crew will come out of this totally discredited. It remains to be seen how that sorts itself out - we'll see how the Democratic primaries in 2018 go, and I suspect we'll start seeing the shake-ups very early next year.

# ¿ Nov 10, 2016 07:08

Kilroy: Oct 1, 2000

Trabisnikof posted:

Without an actual ideology progressive will continue to eat their own like the people in this thread declaring Warren purgable due to her willingness to "work with Trump"

well if nothing else you can take this election as a referendum on the ability of somethingawful.com USPOL posters to know what the gently caress they're talking about

warren isn't getting purged - she's going to be one of the pillars of the party going forward

# ¿ Nov 10, 2016 07:17

Kilroy: Oct 1, 2000

Lightning Knight posted:

I mean their stated goals are to repeal Obamacare and all of his executive orders.

I don't mean people literally won't remember Obama but his legislative legacy is going down the drain.

his legacy will be the eight years he was President and what he does after leaving office, which will probably be a lot

# ¿ Nov 10, 2016 07:21

Kilroy: Oct 1, 2000

Trabisnikof posted:

That's probably true, seeing how she already is a major player. Now you just need to convince your fellow "progressives" that she's worth saving from the cleaning fire.

is this like an actual thing I don't know about or just a handful of uspol posters you're concerned about

if warren is suddenly hot garbage among the progressive left then I don't know about it

# ¿ Nov 10, 2016 07:22

Kilroy: Oct 1, 2000

Lightning Knight posted:

Clinton was a bad candidate who was still better than Trump. White people didn't care enough about minorities to vote against him. Why do they deserve absolution.

White voters being poo poo isn't mutually exclusive with Clinton being bad or the DNC being bad.

It isn't, and white voters who vote for Trump are poo poo. I agree with Democratic politicians like Sanders and Warren who are saying "okay we'll work with you on the stuff we agree on". Of course there isn't anything they agree on and the Republicans don't need to and have no intention of working with them and they know this - but saying the words is the correct and good thing to do.

However that is not the same as the entire progressive wing of the Democratic party (which is to say, after this week I hope: the Democratic party) trying to make a play for Trump votes in 2018 and beyond. Those people are lost. Improve their lives to the best of your ability and political expediency, if you want, but let's not pretend that we owe them anything or can win these people over especially considering what we'd have to become to do that.

Instead, per the numbers on the turnout, we need to energize the Democratic base, and that means offering up left-wing policy and candidates, because the base is considerably to the left of the party right now.

# ¿ Nov 10, 2016 10:17

Kilroy: Oct 1, 2000

Radish posted:

Trump ran a racist campaign straight up. You can't just ignore that and assume that well people are angry about their jobs.. so they deserve a pass. It's the same stuff that's pushed by far right groups in Europe where they talk about the evil Polish/Jews/Albanians/whatever stealing the jobs of good "natural" citizens. No one should be saying that Greeks should be reaching out to the Golden Dawn or that British people need to learn from UKIP. There's plenty of people in this country that have shown they are willing to vote if the candidate actually tries to appeal to them, which Clinton apparently did not, without resorting to trying to reach across and steal people that, at best, are totally accepting of a blatantly racist platform if they get some benefit and at worst are actively promoting it as a benefit.

If the Democrats want to try getting Trump voters by getting back into unions or promoting jobs in the midwest then that's fine (since that would really be a side benefit of getting back Obama's pool). However it should end there and the idea that the racism of the Trump campaign is just this minor thing that people don't REALLY care about while hate crimes are happening all around us is dangerous.

Yo the class and economy stuff is not about winning Trump voters it's about re-energizing the Democratic base. Please understand this.

# ¿ Nov 10, 2016 15:39

Kilroy: Oct 1, 2000

UV_Catastrophe posted:

Why are issues of race and class mutually exclusive

Why does this thread always go around and around, insisting there can only be room for good opinions on either social politics or economic politics, but not both

Why

Because if you devote energy to class issues you're taking that energy from racial issues. And if it turns out the only way to solve either is to devote yourself to both, well then gently caress it I guess we'll solve nothing then :shrug:

# ¿ Nov 10, 2016 15:41

Kilroy: Oct 1, 2000

AVeryLargeRadish posted:

Question: How difficult will it be for the republicans, now that they have complete control of the federal government, to abolish voting and install Trump as president for life? At this point I assume that Trump can do anything he wants to, literally no one has been able to stop him and I don't see why congressional republicans, state governments, the courts or the military will be different.

I mean at that point it would not be "Congressional Republicans install Trump as Prez-for-Life" it would be "The American government has fallen to a military coup". I mean poo poo, I'm not taking anything off the table after this week, but I doubt it.

# ¿ Nov 10, 2016 15:44

Kilroy: Oct 1, 2000

greatn posted:

The election was lost because the base didn't turn out. But that isn't just the liberal base, the democratic base is complicated and multi faceted. You can't just look at dinner exit polling and a few locations turn out to determine it. You are going to need to do some research studies to really determine who didn't show up and why.

I don't think there are any liberals left in America except probably on Wall St and in the DNC (for now, hopefully just for now). The rest of us are progressives, leftists, and Trump voters. I think progressives and leftists probably outnumber Trump voters, but as this election has shown it's hard to get them to turn out for a liberal.

# ¿ Nov 10, 2016 15:48

Kilroy: Oct 1, 2000

Bad Decision Dino posted:

This level of rhetoric is at the same level as Trump refusing to state his belief in the peaceful transfer of power, and it erodes the foundation of a democracy. Grow the gently caress up.

Uh, I said I doubt the GOP would install Trump as Prez-for-Life, what the gently caress are you talking about? Sorry I'm not showing the appropriate level of certitude in this, a week where American democracy has been turned upside down and a lot of what we thought we knew proven wrong. Also I have been defending Dem politicians who still have jobs for doing exactly what you're talking about.

Perhaps the person who needs to grow up is you.

# ¿ Nov 10, 2016 15:52

Kilroy: Oct 1, 2000

Bad Decision Dino posted:

None of this was about racism, no matter how often you say it or how much you want it to be.

Trump's campaign was racist. Trump himself is definitely racist and we can dig up newspaper articles going back to the 70s to document this. A lot of his supporters are racist to varying degrees.

The poor Democratic turnout I think we'll find is in part an apathy on the part of white Democrats to racial issues. This is lamentable - indeed deplorable. I for one will do my part to help fix that, but it's not going to be turned around in two years and we really need to take the House and the Senate in 2018. Note that apathy to issues of race is not the same as antipathy (that's what you see on the GOP side). We don't need to, and most definitely should not, abandon identity politics or civil rights or anything stupid like that, but the Democrats do need to address concerns of class more than they have been, if they want to win elections.

# ¿ Nov 10, 2016 16:00

Kilroy: Oct 1, 2000

kartikeya posted:

You know how right after things were getting called, posters were all 'haha, dumb Democrats will now run to the right'? That's what's going on in this garbage thread. A whole bunch of self described progressives are scared because Trump won, and some of them voted for Hillary and some of them sat out or went third party, so now it's run run run to the safe white 'not actually racist really guys' end of the pool and call all the minorities grifting liars while demanding they should have done more to save us all' time. There was also a legit freakout about women in the other thread and how they can't be trusted as candidates or to vote properly...you know, despite the majority of Trump's voters being men.

A handful of posters in USPOL != the Democratic party.

I've seen no indication that the lesson the Democrats are taking from this is that they need to run to the right. I know you are hell-bent on equating any talk of refocusing on class issues to be proof of some renewed racism on the left... but that is not the case.

While we're on the subject I think we're really, really lucky that Bernie Sanders ran and that he had the success that he did. If he had not then the liberals in the DNC would be able to make a much more convincing case that the answer is more triangulation. It's because of his primary run that they absolutely can not make that argument now.

# ¿ Nov 10, 2016 16:11

Kilroy: Oct 1, 2000

Who What Now posted:

So then what's the harm in shaming them?

There isn't any. Shame away. Trump voters and their racism should not be normalized or treated with.

# ¿ Nov 10, 2016 16:32

Kilroy: Oct 1, 2000

kartikeya posted:

That's not what I said. Please reread. I said USPOL posters were laughing about how the stupid DNC was going to do this and now they're doing it themselves, for pretty much the same reasons, but still insisting no they are super great progressives while denying racism and throwing minorities out the car window. I am not hell-bent on equating talk of refocusing on class issues with proof of lefty racism, I'm pointing out people are being absolute shitheads and claiming that minorities and their issues robbed the poor white man of his class attention.

Class issues and race issues are intensely intertwined. This is not a thing that can just be unraveled while ignoring the other, and if people think saying 'maybe stop killing so many black people' occasionally is somehow taking over the entire DNC platform with identity politics, as has been implied and stated outright in this thread, then yes I'm going to go 'wow what a shithead you are'. This doesn't mean I don't care about class, but the reactions I've been getting to just saying 'Trump supporters are racists, white people have a big problem they need to address, and choosing not to vote against a fascist because you're mad at the centrist Democrat is maybe not a great idea when the cost is so high' have been loving magical.

Okay fair enough. I agree and said something to this effect upthread. For all the talk about minority turnout, Clinton still crushed it with AA and Hispanics. White liberals would have handed this election to Clinton but they didn't show up to the polls, and that is a terrible thing. As I also mentioned upthread I agree that fixing that is something that will largely fall on white liberals who do take racial issues seriously. For myself I've got a few people in my social circle who fit this to a T and while I was already trying to explain to them why they're idiots, I will redouble efforts there and as it turns out I've got some pretty loving strong evidence of same in the form of this week.

Okay, and now comes the part where I'm going to piss you off:

That can only accomplish so much. I am probably not eloquent enough or famous enough to even convince some of my idiot friends to get their poo poo together. I am probably in the overwhelming majority in this. If it were otherwise, cultural change would come quickly and not take decades. But, we don't have decades, we have two years to reorganize the Democratic party into something that can win the House and Senate in 2018. That is, to put it lightly, a tall loving order. It can be done but that path to that will not depend heavily on getting a few white liberals to convince enough other white liberals that racial issues are seriously, lethally important. It will, I suspect, depend an awful lot on refocusing on issues that more of the Democratic base can personally relate to - but (and I suspect you already know this but I want to reiterate it), that is not an abandonment racial issues.

That's the lay of the land as I see it. And it loving sucks. I'm loving gutted by the results of this election - I can't imagine what PoC must be going through. We let you down. My priority is that it doesn't happen again.

# ¿ Nov 10, 2016 16:57

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 10:50

Kilroy: Oct 1, 2000

Hollismason posted:

I kind of wonder if we will see a backwards shift culturally similar to what happened during Reagan's administration. Things got really conservative really quick in film , television, etc...

In a sense we never recovered from that anyway. The reason you don't really see any movies that are critical of the US military in any way that would matter, is that Reagan first: insisted that studios which work with the military to portray them in films, show them in a positive or neutral light; which eventually led the situation today where the military will basically blacklist any studio that dares to anything other than suck the cock of the MilInd complex.

It makes a lot of films unbearable to watch but god forbid Americans be shown frank perspectives on the horrors of war.

# ¿ Nov 10, 2016 17:22

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > uspol november: as it turns out they could not stump the trump

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