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WorkerThread posted:does anyone have a good book recommendation on understanding the historical context of the early zionist movement and israel's founding? Avi Shlaim's The Iron Wall: Israel and the Arab World briefly touches on pre-Nakba Zionism and extensively covers Israel's founding and early years and makes for a good introduction. David Fromkin's The Peace to End All Peace: The Fall of the Ottoman Empire and the Creation of the Modern Middle East focuses on the (mostly) British plans for the Middle East before, during, and after WWI, the insane conspiracy theories and even wilder ideology that informed these plans, and basically reads like a dark comedy about the stupidity of the liberal intelligentsia, while showing the European/"great powers" influence on what would follow. The Easy Rider has issued a correction as of 01:51 on Aug 6, 2022 |
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Aug 6, 2022 01:49
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Malloc Voidstar posted:
They managed to take what was really obviously a completely normal utility tunnel entrance that anyone who has worked at a hospital, university, or other facility with multiple large buildings would immediately recognize as being completely normal, and turn it into a tunnel of terror, so they did their job. The IDF spokesman who gave us a good enough view to figure out what the hell was going on with it is the real wrench in the hasbara machine's gears.
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Nov 17, 2023 03:55
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Bear Retrieval Unit posted:is she the one with the scumbag dad who was saying how glad he was that his daughter is dead instead of captured? Yes, Israel has opted to make the guy who pumped his fist in the air in premature celebration of his daughter’s death, whose fantasies of Hamas abuse were so salacious that he thought that his ghoulish reaction was worth bringing to the public in support of the massacre, the voice of the traumatized hostages. The hasbara division no longer labors under the need to convince anyone, just to feed macabre fantasies to its constituency among the political class and its most bloodthirsty supporters, so he was apparently the best choice for the job.
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Nov 29, 2023 22:47
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Israel is trying for another media blitz with a "report" of Organized Rape Squads in one of the most transparent attempts to counteract the UN report, complete with actual documentation and victims, on the sexual violence routinely carried out by the occupation. Still no actual victims to be seen or heard, even anonymously, but the stories are getting more and more lurid and imaginative. The LA Times had a "new" story today.https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2024-02-21/rape-and-sexual-assault-was-systematic-during-hamas-attack-israeli-association-says posted:TEL AVIV — The Assn. of Rape Crisis Centers in Israel on Wednesday said it has found evidence of “systematic and intentional” rape and sexual abuse during the Hamas attack on Oct. 7 that ignited the war in Gaza. The Easy Rider has issued a correction as of 22:41 on Feb 21, 2024 |
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Feb 21, 2024 22:36
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The Oldest Man posted:wait they didnt even pretend to have talked to any witnesses or victims? jfc Nope, this remains the big constant between the old and new versions of this story, but now we get increasingly bizarre accusations like Hamas training NTR Supersoldiers added to the mix. They don't hesitate to add increasingly bizarre details that read more like the script of a particularly deranged piece of pornography than an actual report, so I guess they've opted to increase the salacious extremes of the story rather than serving up something that might give it more credibility, but would be falisifiable. I guess it makes sense when you have media that will report on anything you say with absolute credulity, to an audience that is primarily motivated by psychotic bloodlust. Israel seems to have fully realized that they've lost their capacity to reach a normal audience, so now they just need to tell their supporters what they want to hear; the more lurid, the better.
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Feb 21, 2024 22:58
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Clip-On Fedora posted:It seems like they are just hysterically lashing out at everyone and everything because the problem isn’t getting fixed. Pardon my ignorance, but is there any precedence for this sort of rally just to express general bloodlust and demand more killing by the government? Did this sort of thing happen even in Nazi Germany or Apartheid South Africa? A riot targeting those you hope to kill has a logic to it that I can wrap my head around, but it is unfathomable to me to have this sort of mass outrage at the state for insufficient brutality. Normally those harboring kinds of sentiments, as far as I can see, recognize their own obscenity and operate from the shadows: there is a reason why the French Secret Army Organization has secret right there in its name. The Klan wore hoods and used aliases and titles to at least nominally conceal their identity. Both carried out militant attacks on the targets of their ire, or served as an illegal supplement to a violent state apparatus they supported as long as it was operating in their direction. These guys, on the other hand, seem outraged that their violent fantasies aren't being enacted efficiently enough as they sit on the sidelines revelling. The state supports their violent thuggery in the West Bank, letting them murder and steal with impunity and even paying them for the pleasure, but they still feel themselves to be victimized by merit of the state not being enthusiastic and quick enough in killing. Is this a phenomenon anyone has seen elsewhere? Any book recommendations on this sort of madness, Frosted Flake? The Easy Rider has issued a correction as of 21:14 on Feb 29, 2024 |
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Feb 29, 2024 21:04
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BearsBearsBears posted:The first example that comes to find for me is the Freikorps of Wiemar Germany. Violent paramilitary groups that thought the government wasn't cracking down on communists (and associated groups) hard enough. Don't know much about rallies performed by them or in support of them. The thing is that the Freikorps were actively committing the crimes they felt the state was failing to do, and were then effectively deputized to act on the state's behalf. There are tons of examples of this in recent history (unfortunately), where groups like disaffected and reactionary veterans, local criminals, and so forth get the state's permission to act as an obscene supplement to the "official" law. Then there are the explicitly disavowed groups with a more radically reactionary variation of the state's practices, who carry out terrorist actions in support of what horrors the state's committing in pursuit of the when they don't necessarily have a good relationship with the state (the French OAS, the American KKK, and so on). In both cases, the "demand" was basically considered too obscene to publicly support, so a militant and, most importantly, covert supplement became necessary. What feels unique to me about the settlers is that their open and brazen demand that the state do their violent terrorism on their behalf, and actively attack the genocidal war machine itself for not being sufficiently quick and brutal, while basically wanting to remain personally uninvolved in the process. This is the sort of thing that might exist as an individual crank or fringe fascist newsletter sounding off, but in Israel it represents one of the country's most influential political currents and seemingly the core of actual on-the-street political action. There's some sort of bizarre cultural pathology here that I can't really think of an equivalent anywhere else. The closest I can reckon are American anti-communist groups like the Birchers, in that they were basically drawn from the national bourgeoisie and wanted to direct the police/military against their enemies, but even there things were at least coded, and they identified the problem as communist infiltration of the leadership, rather than a lack of sufficient enthusiasm for killing among the rank-and-file soldier. DJJIB-DJDCT posted:The Israeli response to Jewish extremism and violence Thank you so much for this! This really helped get me closer to making sense of this phenomenon, which does legitimately seem unique to Israel in modern history. If I'm working this out correctly, the effect is something like: foster an "opposition" that loudly and explicitly proposes the amplification of what you're already doing but denying, so as to create the impression that you're not engaged in your crimes and to offer cover if you're found out. All the while, it allows you to creep further beyond the pale under the cover of compromise. I guess the thing that I'm having so much trouble with is the sheer depravity that this requires. It's asking a society to thoroughly drat itself for the sake of fairly marginal political expediency. The degree to which this is a controlled, or even heavily influenced, process is actually I guess just inconceivable to me in its monstrousness. If it formed organically, it speaks to the social substance of Israel having become monstrous to a degree that I honestly don't think has been seen anywhere else, at least not sustained on the level of everyday life. It's like having the mass gatherings around lynchings in the Jim Crow South as the normal state of everyday life. Sustaining that level of hatred and sadistic enjoyment doesn't seem possible to me without it eating away at a society's basic ability to function, and yet here we are. Edit: The comparison up-thread to American settlers does strike a note for me: did we see Americans in already ethnically-cleansed territories politically attack the US Army for failing to expel the natives efficiently enough, or anything like that? This is an area of history I'm admittedly a lot less familiar with, but it seems like it's the most likely candidate for a point of comparison here. The Easy Rider has issued a correction as of 00:13 on Mar 1, 2024 |
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Mar 1, 2024 00:07
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Orbis Tertius posted:I think in Israel’s case, speaking of depravity, you have to consider that they’re backed, full stop, by the hegemon. Thank you for this; it's one of those things that seems obvious after reading it, but I guess my sense of disgust was blinding me to it. Still, I'm taken aback that it's apparently possible to reach these sorts of depths through such an ideological reinforcement mechanism, and its particularly disturbing to watch it intensify with all the dirty laundry in plain view. Reflecting on it for a bit, I guess we're seeing the same language that we saw from the Israelis during the Second Intifada and the withdrawal of the settlers from Gaza, but now it's all in the open thanks to social media and whatnot; what was previously sanitized or excised entirely for non-Israeli audiences now just appears directly in front of the world. I guess I should take heart in the truth getting out and that the ideological efficiency of running cover for Israel is getting torn to shreds. The Atomic Man-Boy posted:It kind of is one of the big reasons we formed a standing army. This is the side of the equation that I have a pretty solid grasp on, but I guess what I'm missing is the cultural life that accompanied the genocidal frenzy. In the material I've read, it seems a lot like there was a need to "repress" what was being done from public consciousness: the crimes of the US Army and settlers being attributed to their victims, an emphasis on narratives of native savagery, and so on, coupled with enthusiastic celebration of the Army for expelling the threat. Israel seems uniquely insane in that the most enthusiastic proponents of this slaughter are also furious at the butchers responsible that they're not sufficiently brutal and rapid in carrying out their murderous business. Was there a significant bloc of already-settled Americans furious that the Army wasn't efficient enough in its genocide, that Andrew Jackson was a traitor to the white race for not going far enough, and so on? And if this was a phenomenon, do you have any suggestions on readings where I can learn some more about this angle?
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Mar 1, 2024 10:44
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Justin Tyme posted:seems easier, and more effective, to just drive the food and medicine over the border with trucks. i wonder why they arent doing that In all seriousness, is there any possible justification for this other than running up the bill to plant some extra change for the MIC while continuing to do absolutely nothing (at best) or actively cover up genocide by obscuring the situation? This reeks of a way to say "We sent $30 million of aid!" at press briefings, when $29.999 million went to fuel and upkeep of Navy ships and planes and the remainder on sourcing a couple of pallets of rice and expired covid tests. Crisis solved through American generosity, Israel has been absolved of charges of starving Gaza, and a new bludgeon against anyone opposed to genocide has been fashioned. Has my cynicism gotten the better of me here, or is this what it looks like? The Easy Rider has issued a correction as of 22:21 on Mar 1, 2024 |
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Mar 1, 2024 22:13
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DJJIB-DJDCT posted:The Myth of Israel as ‘US Aircraft Carrier’ in Middle East An interesting article, and one that reflects a lot of my long-standing thoughts on the US-Israeli "alliance", but in the aftermath of the USA's use of the Ukraine situation as cover to permanently smash German industry and spike energy prices in the rest of Europe, I've been increasingly drawn to a different set of conclusions. Am I wrong to think that a huge factor in all of this is a "strategy of tension" designed to permanently destabilize the region and prevent Arab governments from being able to function? That Uncle Sam saw Nasserism as a dangerous sign of an Arab national awakening that would see the decrepit monarchies and opportunistic dictators swept away, and replaced by governments that could be made to serve their people instead of at the pleasure of the United States? Israel, as both a threat to its neighbors and an intolerable imposition on the region for its inhabitants, is a great target for public ire, while its agressive expansionism towards any territory outside of the American camp (or, just to make sure you need that military aid topped up every year, occasionally within it). American business interests' year-to-year reports are better served by vassals than trading partners, the region remains a test range and playground for the adventurists in the the military and intelligence apparatus, the MIC gets to make sales, and all is right in the world.
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Mar 8, 2024 13:43
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Sancho Banana posted:And also secure it: So not only is this entirely an attempt to cover up genocide with a program of humanitarian aid that is basically fraudulent, but it is also an excuse to intensify the genocide under the guise of security for the fake program.
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Mar 8, 2024 21:58
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DJJIB-DJDCT posted:I suppose this is the sticking point for me. Has anyone read The Holocaust Averted: An Alternate History of American Jewry, 1938-1967? I've been meaning to, and it seems pretty relevant. Let me preface by saying this was a very well reviewed book. I say that, because as I write this post, it seems loving crazy. This is genuinely insane even by the standards of neo-fascist fiction. The Zionist contempt for the (especially non-American) diaspora isn't new, but this seems to be a book literally celebrating its destruction as the removal of an impediment to fascism, full stop. A few striking things: 1) It seems like the valuation of Hasidic Jews from the ex-USSR, outside of boosting anti communist credibility, by this author is entirely based on their alienation from the rest of society and the possibility that this might generate tensions that can be exploited towards ethno-nationalist ends by secular fascists. 2) The need to repress all memory of anti-Zionist bundism is transparent to a massive degree. 3) The fact that the author doesn't even feel the need to gloss over the Suez Crisis, one of the most blatant cases of Israeli imperial aggression in conjunction with European imperial interests, actually managed to take me by surprise.
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Mar 13, 2024 19:44
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DJJIB-DJDCT posted:I'll include the full text of that passage to see if you can make sense of it, because it was genuinely disorientating to read and as you said seemed to revel in tension and anticommunism. Honestly, the only way I can read this is "in order for a Jewish fascism to succeed, we need the Hasidic Jews to heroically create ethnic tension around the diaspora by being contemptuous of and alienated from non-Jews," and that this is an unambiguous good thing on the basis of it justifying and expediting ethnic seperatism for the modern, secular, and vital fascists. This is coupled with the author's lament that the now-insufficiently fascistic American Jews of his "dystopia" are failing to fully take utilize allegations of religious persecution to further the anti-communist crusade, so this seems to be the classic post-WWII fascist apologia that positions them as the true defenders of civilization against the Bolshevik hordes. Honestly, this reads like such a disturbingly self-aware attempt at copying the "logic" of fascists and then lauding it that I'd almost suspect it was written with a far right audience in mind, but given the lengths to which liberals are going to rehabilitate fascism right now (Timothy Snyder, Anne Applebaum, and so on making the biggest strides on this front), my instincts tell me that this is another example of that effort.
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Mar 13, 2024 20:52
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DJJIB-DJDCT posted:Right?! loving "Six million people and the destruction of the European Jewry, for all intents and purposes" vs "but if it didn't happen Jews would have assimilated in America and Israel wouldn't exist." I think you're actually being too charitable to the author: the guy fully believes that racial destiny means that the Jews will rule the lands of Israel even absent the Holocaust, but is disturbed that American Jews wouldn't get to fully share in the glory of this destiny and that it would be a harder road to establish the Jewish state (and defeat International Communism). His calculation is "six million dead Jews is a price I'm happy to pay if it strengthens the fascist project," and his idea of what "strengthening" entails is basically just protection of it from any form of criticism that would either impede its efficiency as it moves towards inevitable victory, or force him to confront the contradiction between his professed desire to be enjoy all the benefits of American life and his fantasies of a state embodying the violent domination of a master race above all others. This book genuinely looks to be one of the most abhorrent things I've ever seen in fiction.
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Mar 14, 2024 01:15
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DJJIB-DJDCT posted:I appreciate your insight. I couldn't put my finger on what felt so off about it. I can't confidently speak to why without diving deeper into the rabbit hole, but my reflexive guess is that it's some combination of a few things. First, he romanticizes the Hasidim and other "foreign" Orthodox Jews as more primitive, and therefore more authentic, peoples who, although they're inferior to the idealized Jewish fascist, serve as a reminder of the racial/religious division of Jews and gentiles, and create the necessary tensions to destabilize race relations and justify a Jewish supremacist response. If the Hasidim didn't already exist, he'd have to invent them. Add that they’re in the USSR and can be imagined as the victims of anti-Semitic persecution thanks to the conflation of the Soviets and Nazis, and they can provide a plausible route to justifying the Zionist project despite the lack of a Holocaust. Their suffering under Soviet “totalitarianism” justifies both the foundation of Israel and aligns its interests with the United States as a front against the International Of course, this is a fantasy for the American Zionist, a muscular and secular figure who must, at the end of the story, be made capable of a claim to the fulfilment of Jewish racial destiny. The Hasidim, with their insularity, often tense relationship to even other Orthodox sects, and so on, can’t fulfill this destiny, leaving the role open for the American Zionist. The "foreign" Jews inhabit the past, while the future belongs to the fascists.
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Mar 14, 2024 04:01
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Ramie posted:https://twitter.com/willmenaker/status/1773344206263578945 This highlights one of the most bizarre tendencies I see from a shocking number of secular Israelis: their insistence that they're not doing this out of any particular sense of fidelity to a cause, or even that they believe in the cause at all, but simply because it's convenient. They seem to think that anyone else presented with the same opportunity to plunder and kill would be equally happy to do it, and that if they show that they're just like you, you'll realize that their crimes are just because they're understandable and not the product of an alien mind muddled by fanaticism. That this is a normal enough thought for them to share openly and frequently is honestly one of the greatest condemnations of the state of Israeli society I can imagine. A large number of Israelis apparently walk around with the assumption that everyone is a sociopath ready to kill, not for any grand cause, but merely out of personal convenience. It's no wonder that they're incapable of producing anything with even a minimal degree of cultural merit; they see themselves as isolated individual criminals among a disorganized mass of identical villains, so of course a profound sense of cynicism and sadistic cruelty needs to prevail. The only thing that seems to anchor the whole mess is their belief that they're uniquely endowed with the right to claim victimhood because of their innate superiority to everyone else. While a lot of Israelis chalk this up to racial or religious destiny, a subset of secular Israelis like this guy seem to take it as being entirely arbitrary or beneath their consideration. They just are superior, and who is anyone to question that? And of course, if one wrong exists in the world, it's the failure of their lessers to submit to them. I will say this: Israeli culture is perfectly geared to reproducing itself and their national project. It's also an abomination that can't be repaired or coexisted with. Even in comparison to 20th century fascist culture, it's monstrous. The Easy Rider has issued a correction as of 21:00 on Mar 28, 2024 |
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Mar 28, 2024 20:54
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Zodium posted:they're right. find replace israeli with liberal here. I guess what I'm taken aback by is their complete failure to lie to themselves about it. However delusional they might be or mercenary their motives, liberals nonetheless hold that they're ostensibly part of a grand civilizational project, even if it isn't reflected in their behavior. While this mask might constantly slip, they still put it on. Liberals repress their belief that they (and everyone else) are locked in a war of all against all, even as they act on that assumption. I'm probably letting personal sentiment guide me a bit too heavily here, but I find the complete refusal by Israelis to even attempt to hide what they're doing obscene in a way that you don't really see elsewhere. Even Rhodesia had the pretense of restoring some lost aristocratic order that represented the best of humanity. I'm honestly shocked that a country where this represents normal public sentiment hasn't broken down entirely.
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Mar 28, 2024 23:12
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