|
Phigs posted:The core problem is you need lots of content. You need way more content than you can reasonably create if players consume it at a typical single-player game rate. So you gotta stretch it out with grinds or barriers like gear requirements or attunements. And you need content that is easy to vomit out like quests to collect X from mob Y in area Z to serve those grinds and barriers. Or just go "Thanks for playing, please come back for the next patch"
|
#
¿
Jan 11, 2021 18:42
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 11, 2024 14:30 |
|
|
bewilderment posted:There's also zero build variety other than choosing your class, for those that care about such things. Since world firsts in difficult raids basically this means that all classes of a given type (tanks, healers, etc) have parity with each other and playing your class well means doing your set rotation while trying not to flub it as you dodge AoEs and do mechanics and so on.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 23, 2021 12:12
|
|
|
There's a couple of other factors which play into the different mindset for WoW & FFXIV playerbases: 1) Newbies. FFXIV explicitly flags them up and then gives other players a bonus for running dungeons, doing raids, etc. with them. WoW throws them into the game post-tutorial and goes "Good luck" 2) Respecting player's time. WoW is a FOMO-orientated grind explicitly designed to keep players subscribed, which certainly does not do anything to alleviate the "time is money gogogo stop wasting my time" attitude that's pretty common. 3) Square is not afraid to ban the living poo poo out of toxic arseholes. Blizzard is either worried about upsetting that (non-trivial) part of their playerbase, or has done the maths and decided they're making more money from shitweasels than they're losing from players who've quit because of said arseholes.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 29, 2021 17:31
|
|
|
LLSix posted:FFXIV wastes people's time in lots of egregious and obvious ways too. I don't think that can be pointed to as a major differentiating point. Even though they're both fundamentally diku-clones, the above does count for something. Orcs and Ostriches posted:Novice Network has been and always will be a cesspool of every bad idea on the internet, being defended by the most fragile people.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 29, 2021 23:24
|
|
|
Biowarfare posted:What's a diku clone? I'm just getting weird articles for Dikut from Star Wars  So yeah, Everquest was very much like DikuMUD but with a 3D engine bolted on (to the extent SOE had to put out a legal statement to confirm that there was actually zero DikuMUD code in EQ), and WoW is "EQ but made by Blizzard" & FFXIV is at least partially "WoW but made by Squeenix" so there's a pretty clear line of descent there.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 30, 2021 01:33
|
|
|
Mustang posted:Sure, I just think that kind of content doesn't belong in MMO's and actively detracts from the massively multiplayer experience. They certainly don't add anything to it. So what do you want, instead of a story?
|
|
#
¿
Feb 7, 2021 00:39
|
|
|
CYBEReris posted:its a nice and warm feeling when you do old content with a friend who's going through it all for the first time and get to hear/read them gush over the cutscenes, imo https://twitter.com/KageSatsuki/status/1354112384529387520 I said come in! posted:Saw that Everquest Online Adventures is making progress on the fan side of things. People have the world at least somewhat populated with mobs, and quests. Its still a very long ways away though, no spells, or attack skills are present yet, and you can't earn levels or exp. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-CHG_To7Ag again?
|
|
#
¿
Feb 8, 2021 22:44
|
|
|
The whole "EQ had no spoilers" thing is just nostalgia clouding memories though - sure, Allakhazam wasn't up at launch but EQStratics and three or four other websites whose names I've forgotten (EQLore?) were, and so were a bunch of message boards happily spoiling the poo poo out of everything they could find. Partly because Verant tried to hide everything from the players and while a minority loved that, turns out most people want to know things like "So what does this new ability/spell actually do?" and " Did I miss something on this questline that had me run around three continents killing rare mobs, or is this poo poo just broken? "
|
|
#
¿
Feb 14, 2021 11:08
|
|
|
Pants Donkey posted:Are there ANY Western MMORPGs on the horizon that aren’t doomed Kickstarters or being overly generous with the definition of MMORPG? The last big one I can think of was the pair of Everquest sequels that failed to launch, and before that it’s uh...Wildstar. https://www.polygon.com/2020/12/17/22187930/riot-games-mmo-league-of-legends
|
|
#
¿
Feb 22, 2021 01:18
|
|
|
I said come in! posted:I think that if anyone could actually make a legitimate challenge against World of Warcraft, it would be Riot. But we'll see, the MMO genre is for the most part dead, and if Riot can't revitalize it then the genre is probably done for good outside of what already exists. ESO might also be doing the same.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 23, 2021 02:06
|
|
|
I mean, the reason is that it doesn't work for most players and the handful it does appeal to aren't numerous enough to sustain development. UO - Skills-based mechanics, open world, full pvp. EQ - class-and-level based, world divided up by zones into "you must be this tall to ride" level areas, actual quests and world characterisation. PvP (very) optional. More restricted in every way than UO, immediately outsold it and dethroned it. WoW - "Like EQ but less poo poo" Went nutso gangbusters, sold five copies to everyone on the entire planet, only stopped being number one by the concerted efforts of the current dev team to run this poo poo right into the ground and then start digging. I mean, if people really do just want an open world where then can wander around and do repetitive tasks for small rewards the collective works of Ubisoft are right there.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 30, 2021 13:54
|
|
|
Going to be interesting to see if  decide to put the necessary effort (and money) in to try and push WoW back to being "Number One MMO" , or if they're fine with a managed decline to  levels of "a new zone and a couple of dozen quest counts as an expansion, right?"
|
|
#
¿
Jul 18, 2021 09:35
|
|
|
Groovelord Neato posted:How did "employee killed herself at company retreat" not come out before? 
|
|
#
¿
Jul 22, 2021 15:18
|
|
|
100 degrees Calcium posted:drat there is nothing to play until Lost Ark comes out and there will probably be nothing to play then either. This thread makes more sense if you apply Betteridge's Law of Headlines to its title.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 13, 2021 09:03
|
|
|
Hellioning posted:If I had a nickel every time the state of California felt the need to intercede in a giant video game company due to lovely workplace culture, I would have 2 nickels, which isn't a lot, and I guarantee you California needs to intercede more. Half-expecting a "Ghostcrawler has left Riot to seek new opportunities elsewhere" post at some point, especially after he had to be dragged away from his keyboard by HR/Legal and told to stay the gently caress off twitter.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 28, 2021 00:51
|
|
|
Groovelord Neato posted:When more and more poo poo about the "Cosby Room" and other related horrible news kept coming out he could not log off and continued to try to post through it. And then suddenly went, "Oh, I think I'll stop posting now" about quarter of an hour after doing the dril "I will never log off" post for real. It was blatantly obvious that someone has finally got hold of him and told him to shut up or else.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 29, 2021 09:55
|
|
|
Yeah, Blizzard did the same thing in Shadowlands for WoW - there's a generic newbie/tutorial zone now and iirc you specifically need to deselect it to the the various types racial starting zones.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 9, 2021 00:41
|
|
|
FrostyPox posted:I dl'ed EQ2 because I want to see if it's as bad as I remember. Funniest thing is them hiring a team to "localise" (read: make replacements for) the player models for Japan/SK/etc. and then having to offer them to everyone else because of the universal reaction of "wtf why are these all better than the default ones?"
|
|
#
¿
Sep 11, 2021 01:53
|
|
|
The funniest thing about the whole "MMOs used to have a community, back in the Good Ole Days" is I clearly remember hearing the same old song and dance in the UO newsgroups on Usenet: Things like "I've got a house but I never see my neighbours, towns are full of people spamming VENDOR BANK BUY GUARDS macros, and the only people I see in the world either run away from me or it's Boned00d casting Corp Por then looting my corpse. I miss playing Meridian 59 when everyone on the server knew everyone else" And then in Everquest: "How can you have a community with no houses and no world pvp? It's just temporary groups coming and going in camps and dungeons. I miss UO - you knew people on your server there" And then in Vanilla WoW: "How can you have a community when everyone can solo and the dungeons are instanced? At least you knew people in EQ because you had to group to do anything" And so on. Nostalgia is the most insidious of poisons. 
|
|
#
¿
Nov 29, 2021 11:50
|
|
|
Groovelord Neato posted:edit: isn't WoW pretty big on its plot? I only played classic but I thought it was pretty important to the game.  Blizzard's main plot, such as it is, is written by the lead devs coming up with what they think are going to be Epic Moments, coming up with the vaguest possible excuse for them to happen, and only then dropping the resultant... "story" over to the writers who are told to make it work. There's a reason that side-quests and minor characters tend to be better-written in WoW: they just get handed over to the writers and quest design teams with "We need some filler here" as instructions so they can actually be creative rather than trying to polish someone else's turd. Itzena fucked around with this message at 10:55 on Dec 15, 2021 |
|
#
¿
Dec 15, 2021 10:51
|
|
|
The talk of of MMOFPS games set off a stray neuron and holy poo poo WW2OL is still up and running.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 7, 2022 14:09
|
|
|
kirbysuperstar posted:finally we have our answer to the thread title: yes 
|
|
#
¿
Jan 10, 2022 12:49
|
|
|
DangerDongs posted:I don't know about current EQ, but if it still doesn't have any instances it wins by default. Lost Dungeons of Norrath introduced instanced dungeons to EQ, and that was in 2003 so...not quite two decades ago now.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 11, 2022 11:55
|
|
|
The most important thing to remember about EQOA is that it's time to slay the dragon! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXLWmNuuSOA
|
|
#
¿
Jan 16, 2022 22:46
|
|
|
frajaq posted:what does this means for us MMO bros WoW on XBox.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 18, 2022 21:26
|
|
|
GW2 didn't hoover up quite as many ex-WoW players as FFXIV did over the last couple of years but it's certainly doing alright for itself.
|
|
#
¿
May 4, 2022 23:32
|
|
|
drat Dirty Ape posted:EQs difficulty was always about the time investment required to accomplish anything. Also I suppose the social investment to get groups, form guilds, trade, etc. There was also an air of mystery about things that just can’t exist anymore due to the early age of the internet and how information was shared. If people still want the same sort of rush nowadays then playing gatchas and not spending any cash should give a similar dopamine hit.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 24, 2022 14:13
|
|
|
CuddleCryptid posted:Older MMOs weren't harder, we just hadn't invented wikis yet. Its like saying that crossword puzzles were harder back in the day because you didn't start doing the puzzle with the solutions already written out for you by a crossword puzzle streamer and you didn't have some guy named Huntyr screaming at you if you didn't already look up the answers before starting. The information was available mainly because Verant tried to hide it, of course.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 24, 2022 20:58
|
|
|
FFXIV is a Final Fantasy game that happens to be an MMO, where FFXI is an MMO that's sort of Final Fantasy-ish.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 6, 2022 23:13
|
|
|
Catgirl Al Capone posted:crystalline conflict isn't perfect but it's the best FFXIV pvp has ever been. push da frickin crystal Mind you, Blizzard were on the right track a couple of expansions ago with normalising gear in pvp and so on...but the poopsockers whined so away it went.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 16, 2022 23:43
|
|
|
Vinestalk posted:Buddy, this is some blizzlols echo chamber stuff. It's incredibly charitable to one group of devs while being aggressively uncharitable to another. Hell, there were some posts recently in the WoW subforum where someone had just got back into the game and wanted to know how to do better in PvP and the solutions were a) idle in ranked BGs until they've scavenged enough currency to leapfrog the gear grind completely or b) wait for the next expansion to launch in a few months.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 17, 2022 09:31
|
|
|
Chillgamesh posted:To be fair I think this is because FFXIV players don't have a set of preexisting expectations for PvP like WoW players do. By that I mean, FFXIV doesn't have people clamoring for pre-Stormblood PvP where you had all the PvE moves and stats instead of a discrete and truncated set of skills/stats that only exist in PvP. By contrast, in WoW I think a lot of the playerbase would be upset if PvP classes were heavily streamlined. I mean, they could always do something like they did with the level locking/PvP xp change back in the day and introduce a new PvP system (normalised stats, no effect of gear, streamlined PvP-only abilities, and so on) in parallel with the existing system i.e. players can choose new rules or old when queuing for BGs/Arenas/etc. and then just have two systems for a while. Would be interesting to see which would end up more popular with average players.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 18, 2022 11:58
|
|
|
Ibram Gaunt posted:I really hate how badly the proliferation of information hosed with MMOs. Any secret is datamined before the patches come out, people already numbercrunch everything to find the One Viable Build instantly, and even if you don't partake in this crap everyone else who plays does so you're just at a disadvantaeg for no reason. Sucks that even if some madman managed to make a modern day big budget MMO that was more like the good ol days, none of that magic would be there after a week. Speaking as someone whose been playing MMOs far too long; this has always been here. UO had Stratics and a lot of people crunching maths and figuring out optimal macros on the two Usenet groups, EQ had players reverse-engineering all of the game’s mechanics right from launch because they had to (Verant’s original game design was “We ain’t gonna tell the players poo poo because that’s more immersive “), and AC had that weird magic system that was practically inviting people to come up with 3rd party tools to figure it out. So the expectation that MMOs would have sites spoiling the poo poo out of everything was baked in right from the very start of the genre.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 19, 2023 10:11
|
|
|
FFXIV solved hotbar-combat MMO PvP anyway: Flat gear score, battlegrounds only, and parallel ruleset. Also the rewards are purely cosmetic.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 20, 2023 09:25
|
|
|
No Dignity posted:FF14 battlegrounds are terrible though and just done as a chore to get resources by like 95% of the playerbase, so I'm not sure you can say they've solved anything “Done as a chore to get resources” is most content in most MMOs/GAAS/battle passes.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 20, 2023 10:09
|
|
|
I said come in! posted:What is the best server to play Maple Story on?
|
|
#
¿
Jan 12, 2024 10:18
|
|
|
Groovelord Neato posted:For a long time nobody playing EQ knew how haste worked (though they thought they did) so everyone built melee characters wrong. It ruled. It was figured out halfway through vanilla, unless it all changed again in a much later expansion? 1h you just wanted the fastest weapon possible as the innate bonus damage built into the game was stronger than actual weapon damage. Procs might have some weighting but depended on which proc. and the character’s role. 2handers had a sweet spot at a specific delay (I want to say 40?) where the innate damage bonus going up met the damage/delay coming down. Haste from spells didn’t stack with each other but did stack with item haste (and vice-versa) I mean, the devs hadn’t figured this out but the players did - hence the “lol wtf” reaction when the moss-covered twig was discovered in Kunark.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 12, 2024 10:52
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 11, 2024 14:30 |
|
|
It’s okay, Blizzard’s busy trying to turn WoW into Fortnite right now anyway.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 21, 2024 11:30
|
|