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Nidhg00670000
Mar 26, 2010

We're in the pipe, five by five.
Grimey Drawer

Nfcknblvbl posted:

I think so too. My Energica Ego's now replaced by the Ego+ which has 60% more battery capacity while weighing less and costing the same as my bike when it was new.

And they still don't give any weight measurements on their homepage, which tells me its still a pretty porky boy.

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Nidhg00670000
Mar 26, 2010

We're in the pipe, five by five.
Grimey Drawer
IMO PHEVs are definitely a better environmental proposition than some people think.

My friend has a VW Passat PHEV, and the battery of that thing is just enough for him to get to work in the winter. He charges at work, and then makes it home. On a regular working week, he never uses any petrol. At the same time, if he needs to do some towing or go on a family trip, he can just do that with no more planning than in a regular ICE car.

Having people driving around with batteries that have ten times the capacity needed for 99% of their driving is incredibly wasteful, and that's without going into the huge problems with battery metals.

Ola posted:

A different angle: Driving EVs are better for the environment than burning fossil fuels. In order to help minimize the impact of your road trip, just how little are you willing to sacrifice?

I mean, considering the enormous damage oil-producing countries and companies do to the world by virtue of not just leaving it in the ground, I'd say this whole thing of trying to shift responsibility to the individual is not cool.

Nidhg00670000
Mar 26, 2010

We're in the pipe, five by five.
Grimey Drawer

Shamino posted:

Not to cause a political argument but batteries are 100% recyclable until the end of time and all the materials can be obtained domestically in a safe manner. I work in the oil industry (exploration/geology side) and the levels of danger for oil production are so understated.

Plus once you burn the gas it's gone forever.

100% recyclable, I'd like to see some kind of source for that.

Also, respectfully LOL if you think the extraction of minerals for batteries is any better.

Transporting it isn't much more fun.

Nidhg00670000
Mar 26, 2010

We're in the pipe, five by five.
Grimey Drawer
I'm not sure about the Skoda or the VW, but the Seat Mii Electric for some reason can't be ordered with auto-braking even tho it was standard equipment on the gas powered model? Seems like an incredibly stupid thing to cut.

Nidhg00670000
Mar 26, 2010

We're in the pipe, five by five.
Grimey Drawer

Shai-Hulud posted:

This is mostly right, it wasn't standard on the gas models, it was optional. But yeah I have no idea why it's this way. It's pretty stupid.

Ah, my bad, it was standard in Sweden.

Saukkis posted:

Everything I have heard about how VAG auto-braking systems works indicates you aren't missing much.

AFAIK, the faulty ones are all the more advanced Front Assist System, the Up/Mii/Citigo used the less advanced City Emergency Brake System.

Nidhg00670000
Mar 26, 2010

We're in the pipe, five by five.
Grimey Drawer

Clayton Bigsby posted:

Man, I know some people who have bought Models 3s claiming they will keep it for 30 years since it's futureproof and nothing on it will wear out.

I think they _may_ be a tad optimistic.

From what I've seen of paint quality and rust proofing, Model 3s are not going to last long anywhere that gets road salt.

Nidhg00670000
Mar 26, 2010

We're in the pipe, five by five.
Grimey Drawer
Adaptive cruise controls and lane assist systems already have the potential to kill you several times per day, it'll be fine.

Nidhg00670000
Mar 26, 2010

We're in the pipe, five by five.
Grimey Drawer

KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD posted:

You can ding Tesla all you want for their QA, build quality, etc., but at the end of the day, people really, really want their product, even at a higher price than equivalent ICE cars. Much of that surely reflects economic bifurcation, but there it is.

In Europe, there was a 123% year-over-year growth in the EV market for the first 11 months of 2020. During the same period (jan-nov 2020) the Tesla Model 3 was down 14% in Europe and Tesla overall was down 10% for the entire 2020.

In the world’s only EV growth market for most of 2020, Tesla managed to be down 10%.

Nidhg00670000
Mar 26, 2010

We're in the pipe, five by five.
Grimey Drawer

Nfcknblvbl posted:

Kia does have the K900, and that starts at $60k. So it's not like they only have budget luxury cars. I'm sure even the K900 makes some sacrifices to stack up to a 7 series or an S class but hey, it's ballin' on a budget!

To build on a previous point, KIA/Hyundai really painted themselves into the bargain bin corner of the market in Europe and haven't gotten out yet. For example, the Hyundai Genesis was never sold in Europe. The Genesis brand has as of yet never been sold in Europe. The K9/K900? Never sold in Europe.

So far the only "expensive" cars they've even tried selling in Europe have been BEVs.

Except for a limited run of the first gen Hyundai Equus, branded as the Hyundai Centennial, of which they sold less than ten in total in Sweden over 8 years IIRC.

Nidhg00670000
Mar 26, 2010

We're in the pipe, five by five.
Grimey Drawer
Speaking of.

Only registered members can see post attachments!

Nidhg00670000
Mar 26, 2010

We're in the pipe, five by five.
Grimey Drawer
Now THAT is an ugly car.

Nidhg00670000
Mar 26, 2010

We're in the pipe, five by five.
Grimey Drawer

CannonFodder posted:

Strength of Charge

wat

Nidhg00670000
Mar 26, 2010

We're in the pipe, five by five.
Grimey Drawer
The worse you are at planning ahead, the bigger your need for fast charging?

Which means I'd have to install a DC charger at home if I'd ever got an EV.

Nidhg00670000
Mar 26, 2010

We're in the pipe, five by five.
Grimey Drawer

Nfcknblvbl posted:

It makes me a bit jelly that Europeans get to have 240V mains so 3kW charging over there is a snap.

Like TheFluff mentioned somewhere earlier in the thread, 3-phase 400V all the way to your main fuse box is very common in Sweden. 11kW ez pez.

Nidhg00670000
Mar 26, 2010

We're in the pipe, five by five.
Grimey Drawer
Meanwhile, Apples grip on reality reportedly tenuous at best.

https://techcrunch.com/2021/11/18/apple-reportedly-aims-to-debut-a-fully-self-driving-car-in-2025/

Nidhg00670000
Mar 26, 2010

We're in the pipe, five by five.
Grimey Drawer

cruft posted:

:siren: EXCEPT THE NISSAN LEAF :siren:

Leaving it plugged in will gently caress up the big battery and drain the 12V battery so you need a jump start to turn the car on.

Don't Teslas also do this, I think James Mays did and he posted an amusing video about it?

Nidhg00670000
Mar 26, 2010

We're in the pipe, five by five.
Grimey Drawer
I'm usually pretty quick to bag on Tesla for all the lovely poo poo they do, but this isn't something they're worse (or better) at than other companies I feel.

Nidhg00670000
Mar 26, 2010

We're in the pipe, five by five.
Grimey Drawer

cruft posted:

At this point I don't know why they provided a separate button, to open the door, rather than, like, change the design

It's because "there's got to be a better way" (that turns out isn't better) is Teslas MO by now, for good or bad.

It's like how BMW motorcycles for ages had the worst mechanism known to man with their weird indicator buttons, but BAH GAWD we can't do it like everyone else.

Nidhg00670000
Mar 26, 2010

We're in the pipe, five by five.
Grimey Drawer
I just made the mistake of looking at Teslas homepage and I can't stop laughing.

On the eventual capabilities of the FSD:

quote:

All you will need to do is get in and tell your car where to go. If you don’t say anything, your car will look at your calendar and take you there as the assumed destination.

I'm just imagining having a Tesla read my calendar and trying to figure out where I want to go and I can't stop giggling.

"2nd red right of mg, 1st zone" *drives into oncoming traffic*

Nidhg00670000
Mar 26, 2010

We're in the pipe, five by five.
Grimey Drawer

Indiana_Krom posted:

Oh yeah, try $59k and 2.84 miles round trip. I got an EV because I was sick of my car never warming up in the winter.

Was about to say, short commutes are (besides like, riding a bicycle WHICH I KNOW ISNT POSSIBLE FOR EVERYONE) the perfect case for an EV over on ICE mainly because you don't have that super spike in emissions while it's warming up.

Nidhg00670000
Mar 26, 2010

We're in the pipe, five by five.
Grimey Drawer

Three Olives posted:

It's great about making an entrance until you have to get in or out of the car. Have you ever seen anyone do that? Roof is low, the carbon fiber rocker panel is approximately 1ft tall and 1ft wide and there is not much clearance with the scissor doors. It's actually kind of hilarious watching someone realize how absolutely not cool they look getting out of the car as they thought they were going to make an impressive entrance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO_WANvvEFg

With Style!

Nidhg00670000 posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37kVzZJaJ1M

First thing I thought of during the previous discussion about getting in and out of cars.

Nidhg00670000
Mar 26, 2010

We're in the pipe, five by five.
Grimey Drawer

Ola posted:

I'm going to ask Elon to make left/right on the left scroll wheel be configurable to stepping through wiper controls, the challenge is how to wrap it in something sufficiently attention grabbing.

Compare the lack of such functions to Hitler via meme, that should do the trick.

Nidhg00670000
Mar 26, 2010

We're in the pipe, five by five.
Grimey Drawer

Holy shitballs, thats uh, un-lightweight?

Nidhg00670000
Mar 26, 2010

We're in the pipe, five by five.
Grimey Drawer
Depending on how lazy the install is, how safety conscious the designer was and/or how regulations look like, that might also leave every other charger connected to the same junction powerless.

Nidhg00670000
Mar 26, 2010

We're in the pipe, five by five.
Grimey Drawer
Since this is an american-centric forum I haven't felt it super relevant to post much about how it works in Sweden, but I've never encountered these incredibly predatory harassment-like practices you seem to have. Sure, there are things that could definitely work better, but adding stuff without consent and straight up stealing keys and poo poo is unheard of.

Not even when I took a brand new E36 M3 for a test drive on a 3 months old license did I get a ride-along. Just "sign here, if you crash it you're on the hook for X dollaroos".

MSRP is basically Gods word, queuing is the name of the game, first signed first served.

Nidhg00670000
Mar 26, 2010

We're in the pipe, five by five.
Grimey Drawer
Yeah, sustained loads can be a killer. That an outlet or wiring is rated for 15A, 25A or whatever doesn't actually mean that you can push the rated amps through them indefinitely afaict.

Nidhg00670000
Mar 26, 2010

We're in the pipe, five by five.
Grimey Drawer
I do appreciate the extremely early 90s lowest trim feel of the 2 spoke steering wheel.

Nidhg00670000
Mar 26, 2010

We're in the pipe, five by five.
Grimey Drawer
The total global recycling rate for lithium-ion batteries overall is around 5% last I heard, and in some parts of the world it's considerably less.

As for EV traction batteries, I know the EU has started some initiatives around it, but I don't know how far that has gotten yet.

Nidhg00670000
Mar 26, 2010

We're in the pipe, five by five.
Grimey Drawer
2-stroke. You don't want to engine brake a 2-stroke. And they just kept it when the V4 replaced the 2-stroke because SAAB.

Nidhg00670000
Mar 26, 2010

We're in the pipe, five by five.
Grimey Drawer
I'm not going to hide to fact that I'm generally very critical of Tesla on a multitude of points, but their software package is the best in the trade as of RN. How well the navigation/range estimation/preheating works combined with an app that actually seems to work well makes it a winner in that category IMO.

Nidhg00670000
Mar 26, 2010

We're in the pipe, five by five.
Grimey Drawer

Shai-Hulud posted:

Are there any real disadvantages to just having the charge port at the front of the car?

From what I've seen, if you mean all the way up front in the grille, they can get very grimy and nasty if you live somewhere where they salt the roads in winter time. As for how much of a problem that really is, I don't know.

Nidhg00670000
Mar 26, 2010

We're in the pipe, five by five.
Grimey Drawer

Endymion FRS MK1 posted:

it’ll be a relief knowing I don’t have to be anxious and babysit my car’s computer

That's kind of the problem, isn't it? Doesn't matter that it now seems a lot more capable, it's still your responsibility to unfuck the situation if the computer decides a piece of cardboard on the road is a road marking that it should turn to the left of.

Babysitting never ends.

Nidhg00670000
Mar 26, 2010

We're in the pipe, five by five.
Grimey Drawer

Indiana_Krom posted:

a Tesla running sentry mode can consume up to 2% battery per hour or more

Jeez, that sounds like a lot to my ears.

Nidhg00670000
Mar 26, 2010

We're in the pipe, five by five.
Grimey Drawer
"Adaptive cruise control", the one that keeps distances, and speeds up and down with traffic in front of you, that's something I see value in especially on long trips. All this "self-driving" stuff, no matter the name or brand, seems like a bad idea. Since you're responsible for an eventual crash I see two scenarios, either you guard it like a hawk which seems even more tiring than just regular driving or you trust it completely, at which point you might as well be sleeping while "driving"?

Nidhg00670000
Mar 26, 2010

We're in the pipe, five by five.
Grimey Drawer
Are those OEM wheels? That is shockingly low quality for a Porsche, if so.

Nidhg00670000
Mar 26, 2010

We're in the pipe, five by five.
Grimey Drawer

PenisMonkey posted:

Can confirm that Buc-ee’s is huge. Hooray for early morning road trips. Also first V3 supercharger I’ve ever used.


Poor doggo got ptsd just from being there.

Nidhg00670000
Mar 26, 2010

We're in the pipe, five by five.
Grimey Drawer

bad_fmr posted:

It is a PSA product that is built in France. Fiat only adds the badge.


Ok Comboomer posted:

if anybody can build an unreliable EV, I’d expect it to be Fiat/Stellantis/whatever they are now, ngl

The Peugeot e-Expert/e-Traveller, Opel Vivaro-e, Toyota ProAce Electric and Fiat e-Ulysse are all on the same platform.

Nidhg00670000
Mar 26, 2010

We're in the pipe, five by five.
Grimey Drawer

Tom Guycot posted:

I don't know why the gas station chains haven't just gone and like, thrown even 1 or 2, 50kw chargers at every shop to keep EV business coming in to buy beef jerky and lotto tickets.

Ionity have been building their DC chargers at gas stations here, but Ionity is super giga expensive anyway so...

Nidhg00670000
Mar 26, 2010

We're in the pipe, five by five.
Grimey Drawer
This is a line that I push pretty aggressively at work when my co-workers start going down the old "I need an electric car that can go 1000 miles on one charge for the single time per year we drive to X".

If you save 100 bux per month driving an EV, you're still coming out ahead if you rent a car once a year even if it's 500 bux.

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Nidhg00670000
Mar 26, 2010

We're in the pipe, five by five.
Grimey Drawer

SlowBloke posted:

My personal stance is to have anything that is not Euro5 or US equivalent taxed in draconian way. Like value of the car bad. Otherwise you will never remove those vehicles from the roads.

Sounds like a super good way to simply keep a large proportion of the populace carless. You a millionaire, drive around in your 1982 Rolls all you want tho.

The problem of all the old cars still on the road is why I think we still need to invest in renewable fuels for them to replace what we got even tho its not "as good" of a solution as getting everyone into EVs, cause they ain't going away for a long time unless we simply ban old/or ICE cars.

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