|
is margit the first boss? i beat him but i have spent like 90% of my time in this game lost in nightmarish dungeons full of imp bastards
|
#
¿
Feb 26, 2022 05:53
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 20, 2024 16:10 |
|
|
ive been a sorcery guy so far but my character feels kinda lovely and all the cool stuff and spells i find seem to be faith related. ive also been stuck using this meteor staff for what feels like forever because everything else has obscene stat requirements or needs a shitload of upgrades before i can figure out if its better than the meteor staff or not. i just want to cast cool spells and not 31 variations of magic missile. ideally some kind of evil, forbidden spells
|
|
#
¿
Mar 3, 2022 06:39
|
|
|
uuuh i think i just locked myself into a game ending based on feeding a lady 'grapes' extreme spoilers follow, probably only read this if oyu did the same thing as me: i was dicking around in the capital sewers and i bumped into my good friend hyetta, who told me to take off my clothes and go to a door. suffice to say i have now upgraded from the lacking two fingers. im very impressed that it actually permenantly changes the player's body. now i think i need to find a way to the mountain zone.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 4, 2022 07:42
|
|
|
 i finally found a cool ridiculous hat that doesnt cover up my eyes
|
|
#
¿
Mar 5, 2022 07:19
|
|
|
Tuxedo Catfish posted:i heard some speculation that Dung Eater is half-giant, or a giant who for some reason has a stunted human-sized body in which case wanting revenge against the Erdtree and everything it stands for makes a lot of sense, even if it is, uh, kind of monstrously cruel. i haven't actually done his story yet though so i don't have any firsthand observations the dung eater is the soul of an Omen in the body of a man, according to his armour set. his armour looks like that because it's an attempt to look like the big fat omen guys with the cut off horns. I still don't really know what an Omen is beyond being blue, having horns, and getting hunted by the omenkiller guys. I don't know what the like Cosmic reason for the omens is, or what they represent. But i think the dung eater wants to turn everyone into an Omen, because the seedbed curses he has have omen horns growing from them.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 8, 2022 00:39
|
|
|
is the appearance of the sorcerer leggings an adventure time reference? you never see them on the enemies really, but the item you get looks exactly like Ice King's 'underwear'  the wizards even kind of look like ice king with their blue robes and massive heads
|
|
#
¿
Mar 12, 2022 07:05
|
|
|
man carian slicer is one hell of a spell. i started a new game as a sorcerer and ive just been using shield in left and staff in right, cause carian slicer basically gives your staff a sword moveset with a very low fp cost and damage that goes through most shields and never bounces.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 14, 2022 02:34
|
|
|
I put together some lore stuff about the nightfolk race in elden ring (one of the player races you can pick at the start) - their description says that 'long ago they bled silver' - they're called nightfolk - in nokstella and nokron you run into mimic tears, which turn into naked nightfolk npcs and bleed silver blood - the mimic tear summon ashes talks about the mimics being an attempt to produce an artificial elden lord so heres my speculation: - the nightfolk are the descendents of mimic tears - if the player makes their character a nightfolk and then beats the game and becomes elden lord, then it will mean the mimic tear project was ultimately a success
|
|
#
¿
Mar 19, 2022 12:15
|
|
|
i have some theories about the overarching plot of the game so theres spoilers here: as far as i can tell the erdtree is just a kind of cosmic parasite, grown from a star beast (like astiel and others) who had a connection to the Greater Will, one of the outer gods. I think that because the elden beast uses both holy magic (which is the Greater Will element basically) and nebula magic like the other star beasts. Several incantations also mention the Erdtree being universally hated and warred with when it first arrived, until it became dominant. early on it's super vital and gives people extended life and health and freedom from death and injury, but over time decreases in magnitude until its basically just keeping people alive as awful undying husks. this is kind of an aside but from what i can glean, the main way to actually 'die' in the lands between was Erdtree Burial in the root catacombs, which was seen as a reward for heroes. Godwyn's half-death seems to have hosed this up, because from him deathroot has spread through the erdtree roots and filled all the root catacombs where people should be able to go to 'die' are now infested with Those Who Live In Death. the tree starts to realise its days are numbered when its vassal, Marika/Radagon, gives birth to Empyreans. Empyreans just seem to be people who have the potential to become full gods like Marika/Radagon, implying that the Greater WIll intends to replace Marika and the Erdtree entirely. The empyreans are: - Malenia (the strongest, but born corrupted by the Scarlet Rot, a rival Outer Power to the Greater Will) - Miquella (born stunted, also came to reject Radagon/Marika's interpretation of the Golden Order because it couldn't - Ranni (the only one without an M name because publically she was the daughter of Rennala and Radagon, not related to Marika at all) - Melina (hinted at but not confirmed anywhere) Ranni rejects the Greater Will as oppressive and starts working to kill her own Two Fingers and eventually remove the Greater Will from the planet entirely, so she becomes a problem for the Erdtree. Malenia is the embodiment of a rival Outer Power, the Scarlet Rot. She keeps blooming in intense situations, and on the third blooming will become a true godess, with a Scarlet Bloom to replace the Erdtree. This actually happens during her boss fight, but the tarnished ends up aborting it. So she's a problem. Miquella is stuck in a perpetual child state, and the failure of the Golden Order to fix that drives him to seek out his own way, distancing him from the Greater Will orthodoxy and making him more of a threat to Marika. his half-formed nature also means his Godhood could manifest in multiple ways, but more on that in a little bit. One thing that is noteworthy is that there is the theme of Moon/Stars and Sun duality. Rennala and Radagon's marriage was the union of the sun and moon. The elden beast uses both holy (sun) and nebula (moon) powers. Miquella's gimmick being 'unalloyed gold' isn't a coincidence I don't think. I think Miquella intended to reject the moon element entirely. Loretta's sickle weapon mentions that the glintstone (moon/stars) it once had has been torn out and replaced with amber, which was done when she left the Carians to join Miquella. The golden order, ie the current balance of sun and moon, is explicitly 'alloyed gold' because of that union. Unalloyed Gold is also a threat to basically every interested party also because it blocks the influence of the Outer Powers. the Unalloyed Gold Needle is used to save Millicent from the scarlet rot, was intended to be used to save Malenia, and can be used by the player to free themself from the Frenzied Flame. Miquella also started to grow the Haligtree, a rival and intended replacement for the Erdtree, which provoked Marika to act. She subverts Ranni's plan to kill her Two Fingers to instead do the Night of the Black Knives and take out Godwyn and Ranni together, then (idk how long later) shatters the Elden Ring, casting everything into this awful stalemate. Radahn fights Malenia to a standstill and prevents her third blooming, cutting short the threat of her godhood. his mindless holding back of the stars also prevents access to Nokron, where Ranni's fingerslayer blade is kept, so even with her soul kicking around Ranni can't move forward with her plans. Mohg, an omen-cursed non-empyrean royal child, who was touched by the Formless Mother (another Outer Power) uses the distraction to steal the defenseless Miquella. His plan is to feed Miquella a ton of cessblood to make him turn into a vassal for the Formless Mother. This fucks over the Haligtree, which gets warped and deformed by Malenia's rot in Miquella's absence. It is noteworthy that Miquella is not dead even at the end of the game, you never get his greatrune and Gideon tells you that he is still slumbering in the cocoon Mohg made for him. So anyway, Marika has hosed over the Greater Will's plans for her succession and bought the Erdtree some time, and trapped the realm in a state of endless degradation without death. She didn't necessarily bank on the Greater WIll imprisoning her inside the Erdtree as punishment. I think Melina is her backup plan for that scenario. She's bodiless and invisible and can only get places if she makes a pact with a Tarnished. the tarnished are also Marika's backup plan, but that's made open from the start. The demigods have failed, the Tarnished need to finish the job. I think Melina is also part of a second, secret duality, within the sun itself: the division of light and flame. The Erdtree, the two fingers, holy magic, they all represent light. Two Fingers miracles are all light based, the Cipher weapons the two fingers make are words of light. Fire is represented as antithetical to both the Erdtree and Order in general, but there are hints all over that it is an inescapable part of the Greater Will. Radagon has the red hair of a fire giant, and was said to despise it. This is a metaphor for how the Erdtree despises fire, despite fire being a part of the Greater Will's nature. I don't think the Frenzied Flame is a different Outer Power, i think it's the second half of the Greater Will. Two Fingers plus Three Fingers makes a human hand, and the hand is the main way we impose our will on the world. If you do the Frenzied Flame storyline you find out that basically the goal of the Frenzied Flame is to free up the energy the Greater Will invested in the world by restoring it to a primal state where it can be remade into a new world. The fire incantations also talk about monks seeing fire within the light of the erdtree and being expelled for this insight, despite it being true insight. The other reason I think there is a theme of fire and light duality is that the original form of the Erdtree was the 'Primal Crucible', and a crucible is literally a vessel for heating things up to transform them. As well as representing destruction, fire represents renewal. When a forest fire is over new plants grow from the ashes. Some ecosystems even rely on it. The process of becoming the new elden lord REQUIRES that you burn the tree, showing that rather than being antithetical to the world, fire is a natural part of it. tl;dr: the erdtree rather than representing the natural order is actually defying it. the Greater WIll is both fire and light, not just light. death and renewal is a natural part of existence, and propping up a failing world system just leads to suffering and degredation of all people, both weak and powerful.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 29, 2022 23:12
|
|
|
boloney posted:I agree with most of this except for the very last part about fire being required - it seems to only be required if you seize the throne by force. Presumably Godfrey, for example, didn't have to do that as he was willingly taken as Marika's consort Godfrey became elden lord when the erdtree was still the primal crucible, since the crucible knights are his boys. I think Radagon marked the split away from fire/light duality to moon/sun duality. The primal crucible was explosive expansion and domination, but once that was over it grew into the Erdtree. But the erdtree didn't want to make way for whatever was next, and here we are. basically normally the sun would cause a wildfire that makes way for new growth, but in this case everything has gone wrong and the tarnished and melina have to become a poorly planned gender reveal party that kills everyone and sets fire to half of california. edit: i should point out that my theory isnt complete or conclusive yet its just me trying to put together a bunch of facts i discovered. I still don't really understand what the Omen represent or where they come from. There is also a major theme of colour coding of attacks, like in all From games. several are tied to outer powers: Bloodflame - Formless Mother Yellow Flame - Frenzied Flame Scarlet Rot - unnamed scarlet rot outer power Ghostfire - unnamed death outer power, referenced in the description of the twinbird shield. The Twinbird was the Marika of the Death Rite Birds, the earthly vessel of the outer power of Those Who Live in Death But then you have: Gold & Black fire - this is the golden fire associated with Omens, but it is also sometimes used by death-aligned stuff. The death lightning that fortisax uses is golden, the eclipse shotel fire is golden, the wraith summoning bell is golden, but so are all the omen and royal remnant (aka giant centipede nun) stuff. It is strange to me that 'death' stuff would have two colours and share one with omens. perhaps the golden fire just represents osmething 'unnatural' which is why it is employed by the most hosed up mutants and examples of Those Who Live In Death juggalo baby coffin fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Mar 29, 2022 |
|
#
¿
Mar 29, 2022 23:34
|
|
|
Wellwinds posted:The three fingers and their followers are set out in opposition to a new world (backed by melina's plea of a chance for new lives to continue if you don't take the flame). They see existence as discrete entities being a mistake that results in pain and suffering the likes of which gives rise to people who'd rather have never existed to being with the motivation of flame cultists is like you said, but i think that is effectively just the greater will forcing compliance with the entire world being liquidated. its a lot easier to melt poo poo down and start again if the same flame that burns them makes them want to be burned. hyetta lays out the words of the three fingers after you accept the frenzied flame, but its easy to miss dialogue and you cant get it again after you hear it because she vanishes, so my memory is not top notch. I know she talks about the Greater Will wanting to free up the energy it invested in the world and erdtree.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 29, 2022 23:50
|
|
|
there is also a strong theme of alchemy in the game but i have not formulated a proper theory of it yet. alchemical texts were presented in the form of allegory, partially to keep the alchemists secrets away from the laymen, but partially because people werent' great at reading so information was often presented in allegorical ways. you can see this in everything from everything as serious and down to earth as combat manuals to bullshitty stuff like alchemy. a major concept in alchemy is duality and the fusion of opposing things to form a greater whole, and the allegory for that was the Red King and the White Queen:    this could be art from the game but is in fact half a millenium old. theres also this: quote:The filius philosophorum (Latin for "the philosophers' child", i.e. made by the true students of philosophy) is a symbol in alchemy. In some texts it is equated with the philosopher's stone (lapis philosophorum), but in others it assumes its own symbolic meanings. Other terms for the filius philosophorum include filius sapientiae ("child of wisdom"), infans noster ("our child"), infans solaris ("sun child"), infans lunaris ("moon child"), and infans solaris lunaris ("sun moon child"). i dont think it takes a lot to see who is who. The three fathered Orion is Ranni. her name even sounds like orion kind of, she is the child of radagon/marika + rennala, three individuals, and orion is known mostly as a constellation now. She is the infans solaris lunaris (sun moon child). The transformed hermaphroditic hermes is Miquella. Miquella is hinted at being St Trina, the childlike saint of ambiguous gender, and there are apparently cut files that confirm this. the child of the egg i don't know. it could be the transformed miquella post-mohg egg. there is also a theme of colour coding in alchemy that conforms to the stages of the philosophers stone, which all embody several concepts both physical and metaphysical nigredo - albedo - citrinas - rubedo black - white - yellow - red decomposition - calcination - fermentation - projection (ie creation of the philosophers stone) reduction to chaos - purification - dawning of solar light - perfection of the both the material and the self raven - dove - ??? - phoenix of note is that the final product of alchemy is supposed to be both healing and unalloyed gold - both miquellas aims. but the philosophers stone is also represented by a lot of other stuff, from blood to roses to birds and all sorts of stuff. stuff you find in the game that appears as potential other answers to the current stalemate. idk like im thinking of this poo poo while im posting. theres also a jungian archetypes thing corresponding to the stages of the great work too, which i dont know as much about but seems relevant.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 30, 2022 00:17
|
|
|
i have been playing souls games since i imported the asian release of demons souls and i have never once watched a dark souls lore youtube video. people outside here seem to have some really stupid theories though
|
|
#
¿
Mar 30, 2022 00:22
|
|
|
hello i had more thoughts related to my thoughts from yesterday about the games theme of the necessity of destruction in order to create a better future, and how it relates to the questlines of different NPCs you meet: Alexander, Diallos, and the Jar Bairn - Alexander is maybe the most straightforwardly heroic character in the game, he protects his fellow jars from jar poachers, he has a kindly spirit, he is generous and friendly. He pursues greatness, but when he finds himself mortally wounded and unable to repair himself, he faces death with dignity. Diallos is a self-loathing coward who wants to be a manly man like his brother. his attempts to do this through sheer brutal violence just bring him shame however. He gives up that path and accepts a peaceful life caring for the Jars of Jarburg, and eventually lays down his life for them to protect them from poachers. In his death he becomes a champion, the thing he had always wanted. The Jar Bairn is the literal vessel of rebirth for both of them. The bairn inherit's the core of Alexanders being, and after diallos dies it is possible to see the jar bairn doing the same animation alexander did after the radahn fight when he is putting pieces of dead warriors inside himself. Both in the contribution of their flesh and their examples diallos and alexander make the jar bairn into the hero of the next generation, and in doing so live on in a truer fashion than they would have had in an unnaturally extended life. Nepheli Loux and Kenneth Haight - Nepheli is another heroic character, but more in the sense that she goes on a heroes journey through the course of her story. She begins as the naive adopted daughter of Gideon, but she has a fierce sense of justice which ends up putting her at odds with her 'father' and eventually he rejects her. She falls into despair over the loss of her identity as gideon's daughter, but the stormhawk ashes remind her of who she really is. The death of her false self leads to the birth of her true self. Kenneth Haight also seems like a naive dipshit when you first meet him, he comes off totally deluded about the state of the world and the situation he's in. But in a touch I like, when he sees the reality of what is happening he realises that something serious has to change. It's not what you expect following your first encounter. He's clearly aware that the world he thought was here is dead, and that a new one must be created. beyond the fact that they end up working together, their stories are connected by the idea of facing the facts. Both are deluded, both see horrors that conflict with what they believed, both make the right choice despite the pain it causes them. Something the Erdtree is failing to do. Nepheli's story mirrors Hoarah Loux's own story as a barbarian chieftain who settled down to become a lord. Kenneth might even be her Serosh. But I think what it conveys is that just as the departure of Godfrey + the primal crucible, and the arrival of Radagon + the erdtree signalled the start of a new age, the arrival of Nepheli Loux signals the turning of a new age also, which means it is time for the erdtree to be replaced. Fia & Rogier - Fia is the most straightforward example of death and rebirth there is. She's a good example of a double misdirect, because at first she seems nice, then she seems evil, then you find out eventually that she is willing to die to try and alleviate the suffering of beings that nobody else has compassion for. Her methods may or may not be misguided but her intentions are pure. Its kind of a hard sell to get people to empathise with a bunch of boat skeletons who seem to act like assholes all the time, but maybe they are just upset cause the nature of the world is hostile to them. But her plot is also kind of an interesting variant of the theme, because under her proposed world order death would be released again, but Life-in-Death would be a codified part of existence instead of an aberration, which seems like it runs contrary to the theme of the importance of death to herald rebirth. But I think the theme still applies, because death has returned and would then lead to rebirth as one of Those-Who-Live-In-Death. Rogier is a secretly miserable guy who hates the world, but is still ultimately brave in facing his death and accepts it with dignity. It's implied he used to hunt Those-Who-Live-In-Death, but became compassionate to them at some point and fell out with D. He dedicates his last days after being blighted by Godwyn's corpse to helping further Fia's plan rather than trying to save himself. the undead are also interesting because they are reviled even though at this point basically everything, including the erdtree itself, is experiencing unnaturally prolonged life. It's another kind of point of hypocrisy in the Golden Order, along with their rejection of Fire as heretical despite its duality with the erdtree. She can also be murdered by one of the D twins, who at that point is the insane, half-souled representative of the failing present order. There's some kind of resonance between the D twins and godwyn. They're both golden, they both represent the peak of the old order, they both have only half of something they were meant to have the whole of (the death rune for godwyn and one soul between two bodies for D). i dont know what that means though. there are other examples in other questlines like millicent and such but this post is already long enough. I noticed that a staggering number of NPC questlines in this have endings like that compared to even previous souls games, i was initially only really thinking about alexander's questline in relation to the theme of the game, but then I realised more fit. elden ring has a similar but almost contrary theme to the dark souls series. Those games have endings about replacing the order of flame, but those are often a lot more morally murky than what is in elden ring. The souls games are about needing to put the existing order on life support. Elden ring is about the world already being on life support, basically forever, and the choices to supplant the existing order are much less morally gray.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 30, 2022 15:01
|
|
|
does it say anywhere in the game what the slander shabriri got his eyes gouged out for was? allegedly the frenzied flame first appeared in his empty sockets. I'm wondering if the 'slander' was him saying something truthful about the two fingers and their intentions or something.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 30, 2022 22:14
|
|
|
Sockser posted:“Tibia Mariner 2” Tibia Marina & The Diamonds (the diamonds are the skeletons)
|
|
#
¿
Mar 31, 2022 19:25
|
|
|
I feel like this game will go the Dark Souls 2 DLC route with themed DLCs for the different outer gods. Loose plot threads we have are: Malenia - she blooms into the scarlet flower that Gowry speaks of even after we kill her, meaning that despite our efforts another Wacky Space Plant has taken root. The Scarlet Rot is the emanation of a different outer god, and the scarlet flower & malenia are its marika. Miquella - he still slumbers in his cocoon, as confirmed by Gideon after we kill Mohg. Gideon even suggests it might be better to kill Miquella before something unfortunate happens, then clams up about it. Miquella could now be the vessel for The Formless Mother, the outer god that Mohg encountered. It turned his cursed omen blood into bloodflame blood, which made his horns turn black, and also seems to be responsible for the blood albinaurics in that area, who are growing little black horns like Mohg has and seem to have mutable forms. Sellen - Sellen has become a graven school by the end of her questline, and graven schools are the seeds of stars. It's an anticlimactic end for the main sorcery character, and could lead to a DLC of more Star-themed monsters. The Primeval Current might also be an Outer God but i am not sure. It definitely seems to transform people the same way the other outer gods do, turning them into crystals like Azur and Lusat. It's a major lore underpinning but not very explored right now, much like Humanity was in base dark souls 1, so a dlc could expand on it in the same way the manus dlc did.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 31, 2022 23:27
|
|
|
its weird how Father seems to be like a voluntary position rather than a biologically related thing in Elden Ring. Gideon is Nepheli's father, despite her being grown when she met him, and them not being blood related. Lionel's armour talks about how he declared himself to be Fia's father when he heard she'd been kicked out her village. its just two examples but suggests something interesting about the world. also regarding the demigods: the first batch of demi gods are fatherless. Radagon IS Marika and so the children of Marika and Radagon, all the M-named demigods and royal kids, literally don't have fathers.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 4, 2022 18:44
|
|
|
i think the fingercreepers are the severed hands of giants enchanted to fight the giants by the carians all the dead giants are missing their hands
|
|
#
¿
Apr 4, 2022 20:32
|
|
|
Nephthys posted:The DLC will be whatever monstrosity that really loving big one is from. theres a loving massive dead giant down the side of one of the cliffs at the edge of the map, its head is at the top of the cliff and legs vanish into the water
|
|
#
¿
Apr 4, 2022 20:40
|
|
|
pre shattering Lands Between seems like a really lovely place anyway - like 5 different slave races (omens, trolls, misbegotten, demi humans, albinaurics) who get massacred and tortured at will - omens just seem to be born randomly like a birth defect, and all those babies either get their horns chopped off and die, or horns chopped off and used as slave soldiers, or if they're royal they get locked in the sewers forever - a noble family exclusively of executioners (the marais at shady castle) - awful body horror fates tied to basically any kind of study or pursuit. get too into dragon stuff, become a magma wyrm. get too into sorcery, turn to stone and crystal. study the erdtree and become a t-posing zombie - psycho sorcerers making balls out of each others heads - roaming torture machines - undying people crucified forever - best case scenario for the end of your life is you get glued to the erdtree and sucked into it. even then giant ants might just loving dig you up and eat you anyway - endless imperial war on behalf of the erdtree shabriri did nothing wrong
|
|
#
¿
Apr 4, 2022 21:25
|
|
|
Turtle Sandbox posted:The lore states Marika was born outside the lands between, and conquered it on behalf of the greater will. Probably because the Dragon God hosed off for some reason, and then the dragons just decided to basically hibernate till he came back. Maybe the shattering was another power play, trying to gain power with being subservient. part of the lore is that when the erdtree first arrived it reshaped everything in the primal crucible, implying stuff had different forms and properties before then. so i wonder if people and things from outside the lands between are less enthralled to the erdtree and maybe are more able to hurt it effectively.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 4, 2022 21:27
|
|
|
Annath posted:So, question about Godfrey: Godfrey is basically his papal/regal name, Hora Loux was who he was prior to becoming elden lord. Before the Erdtree came animals were more intelligent than humans and so I guess Hora Loux took the wise lion spirit on his back to hold back his barbarian warlust. Its representative of his transformation from a roving murderer like the player into a guy who could actually rule a kingdom. also i found i think more solid proof that the two fingers and three fingers are both servants of the greater will:  from the mirrorhelm item. it just says vassal Fingers rather than Two Fingers. Also worthy of note is that based on which fingers comprise the Three Fingers, the Two Fingers must be the Ring and Little Fingers. The Ring Finger is kind of obvious, where the wedding ring is worn, but the little finger was historically where monarchs wore their signet ring. The two fingers point the tarnished on the road to both royalty, and to becoming marika's consort, ie getting married.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 4, 2022 23:33
|
|
|
SyntheticPolygon posted:Well there are multiple 2 Fingers running around. that'd be all the more reason to refer to them specifically as Two Fingers or pairs of Fingers or whatever, rather than just fingers in general, when there are multiple types of fingers in the game.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 4, 2022 23:55
|
|
|
Yorkshire Pudding posted:Besides the Omen Bairn, are there any Curse themed spells, incantations, or items I can use for my thematic Poop Partaker build? you can get a wraith summoning bell in the early bit of liurnia that summons a gold curse ghost to chase people, and the dung eater's greatsword has a curse effect to it. theres also omen bairn items dropped by some of the sewer omens but im not sure if theyre different to the reusable bairn you get from morgott death lightning is also an incantation with the gold curse spell effect
|
|
#
¿
Apr 5, 2022 00:53
|
|
|
No Dignity posted:The Northern Alliance working to undermine the ruling government is faithfully depicted by Mohg too, the pieces are all coming together also like the northern alliance mohg has kidnapped a young boy to be his 'consort' edit: also i just noticed that the knight armour you can buy at roundtable hold is a pristine version of vyke's burned fingerprint armour. i also think that the problem with vyke is that he kept his armour on when the three fingers grabbed him and it cooked his brain or something, like it interfered with the process and he went mad. that's why hyetta specifies that YOU have to take your armour off to go and see the three fingers, where clearly vyke did not. edit edit: i also forgot this theory i had that i forgot to post: the elden lord and the deathbed companion are basically the same thing. both gather the essence of many champions and take it into themselves, both eventually give themself to resuscitate a dead lord. the death of the elden lord is more metaphorical, but seen in the case of godfrey. when he became lord, hoarah loux died and was replaced with his godfrey persona. Fia, like the player tarnished, was destined to bring life back to a certain individual, but Fia's destiny was interrupted by her own resurrection so she chose her own lord to die for this time. The player can choose to do the same and reject the path of the two fingers and pick any other they want. juggalo baby coffin fucked around with this message at 15:14 on Apr 5, 2022 |
|
#
¿
Apr 5, 2022 15:07
|
|
|
No Dignity posted:Thank you for explaining my joke sorry im pretty high and slow witted at the moment
|
|
#
¿
Apr 5, 2022 15:15
|
|
|
the erdtree is part of a cycle of death and renewal and trying to escape that fate. basically every npc quest involves some kind of literal or metaphorical death to enable a rebirth and a better future. there is also the theme that a failure to properly die (godwyn, Those Who Live In Death, dung eater's cursed victims, rykards fate post devourment, etc) leads to horrifying consequences. the erdtree is dying, as all things die, but doesn't want to go gracefully. it needs to die and be replaced to renew the world's order. all of marika's kids were born empyreans to some other outer power. the shattering prevented all of their ascensions. I think marika didn't want to go either, but didn't bank on the greater will imprisoning her in the tree as punishment. melina is her get out of jail free card, a way to bypass the seal on the door.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 5, 2022 17:25
|
|
|
did anyone figure out what the deal with Omens is yet? is it related to runes or outer gods or lore? or is it just like the magical version of spina bifida or downs syndrome?
|
|
#
¿
Apr 10, 2022 00:35
|
|
|
Tuxedo Catfish posted:if you check out the item descriptions related to Followers (so fight the moose bosses and get the big one's Remembrance, explore Nokron and Nokstella very thoroughly, etc.) you'll get a bunch of stuff about them treating children born with tree growths on their bodies as holy because they're a sign of new life being born from death that's very interesting, I hadn't put the followers together with the omens like that, but it makes sense. it even puts the name Omen into context, and ties in neatly with the overarching theme of the necessity of death and rebirth and the horrible consequences of trying to avoid it theres also a lot of implication in the primal crucible stuff and the godskin noble stuff that the erdtree is to some extent responsible for the present day forms of most creatures. a disruption to the tree would then probably also lead to disruptions in the formation of new life
|
|
#
¿
Apr 10, 2022 01:23
|
|
|
farum azula is up in the sky how the gently caress did deathroot get there?
|
|
#
¿
Apr 10, 2022 15:49
|
|
|
so malenia has had two prior bloomings to the game, are they marked with red flowers like her last blooming is?. there is a red flower near her boss room so it makes me wonder if she first bloomed in the haligtree or something
|
|
#
¿
Apr 10, 2022 23:17
|
|
|
found an interesting item description on a shield from stormveil castle:quote:Metal greatshield coated with gold. Carried by knights loyal to so the erdtree i guess explicitly was originally some kind of primordial blob thing that poo poo out a whole bunch of chaotic life then stabilised and formed into the erdtree and made everything into its present form i guess the omens and misbegotten and such are from the order slowly breaking down
|
|
#
¿
Apr 11, 2022 01:21
|
|
|
one thing i noticed that is interesting: the first invader you normally run into is a guy called Recusant Henricus near stormveil castle, north of warmaster's shack. he wears a greathelm and the Eye surcoat. Recusant means that he's part of the volcano manor. Eventually you find the Eye Surcoat in Rykard's boss room after the fight. According to the description the eye surcoat marks the wearer as the eyes and ears of gideon ofnir. I think gideon had sent henricus to find out what is going on at the volcano manor, but when henricus found out he got eaten by the big snake.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 12, 2022 14:26
|
|
|
Megasabin posted:Finally beat the game. I like to get pretty into the lore when I play From games, so I took some notes while playing. Been writing up a timeline of the game for myself and while trying to piece things together, I came to this conclusion about some of the ancient civilizations in The Lands Between. Interested to see thoughts from any of the other lore fans on here. I will spoiler the sections pertaining to one of the civilizations, since they relate to one of the optional bosses in the game. this is super interesting. my initial read on the alabaster lords was that they were the ancestors of the Nightfolk race, given that they also bleed silver, but I've since changed on that. this might help with your work, but i'm piecing together stuff about the Nox, another one of the prior civilisations who now lives underground. The Nox worshipped the night sky in the age when fate was determined by the stars. I think this is a very literal state of affairs: formerly fates were linked to the stars, and by reading the stars you could read the future. The items that mention this are stuff like the astrologers set, astrologers cane, and some spells. The Erdtree supplanted that state of affairs. The stars were sealed away, and their role was taken over by the Golden Order, the new determiner of fate. There is no true night in elden ring, even though there is a day/night cycle. It's still almost daylight bright at night, just gloomy, and there are no stars. Now you would think that that is what drove the Nox underground to their false sky, but it's not. They were explicitly banished there by the Greater Will for some transgression, and I think I know what it was: everyone's favourite summon. The description of the mimic tear states that it was an attempt by the eternal city to create an artificial lord. The nox await the age of stars, and their lord of night (paraphrased from the nox armour again), but I imagine were not too keen on waiting for the stars to be restored naturally and wanted to make something to kill radahn and release the stars. I don't think the Greater Will would be jazzed about this, and so sealed them off in the underworld just in case. Remember, you can't access either of the Nox towns until the stars have already been released. There's a few types of mimics in the underground cities, but the main variety of note is the type that turns into player-style NPCs. They all turn into naked nightfolk, who bleed silver, much like the description of the player race once said. What is interesting is that the Nox, while resembling nightfolk physically (they at least have the same skin tone), do not bleed silver. So my theory of the nightfolk player race is that they are descended from escaped mimics. There are a few ways out of the eternal cities despite there not being many ways in. Over time in the light and surface order of the Erdtree their mimic biology changed to more resemble the 'acceptable' human form in the Golden Order, leading to the loss of shape-changing powers and silver blood. It sounds like a big jump, but the Erdtree is explictly said to be responsible for present form of things, and minor changes in its health have led to stuff like the Omens and Misbegotten. A functioning, younger Erdtree would probably be able to force something human-like into something human. Where this is neat is that if your player character is a Nightfolk, and you beat the game, it means Nokstella's gambit of creating an artificial lord paid off. also with regard to your issues of colour coding with the elevators, it's worth noting that the enhanced versions of the golems also use a blue glow effect, so both blue and purple light are within the wheelhouse of that historical era.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 12, 2022 16:20
|
|
|
Megasabin posted:Thanks for thoughtful response. Some questions: 1. when you pick the 'base template' for your character you can pick from a set of appearances that have lore descriptions. there's some really interesting stuff in there, because you can pick the same numen race as marika and the black knife assassins. 2. the blue glowing golems are in caelid in front of the Colosseum where the giant jar is. they're preceded by a ton of the little ruin snake creatures, which also adds to your theory, and that little area is mainly accessible by a long magic elevator in the siofra deep river. So all the technological elements of your theory are together in one little area.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 12, 2022 16:36
|
|
|
Phenotype posted:Wait, huh? So how does Rykard's thing work, anyway? Maybe I missed stuff when I was going through there, but I only have the vaguest idea of what they're up to in Volcano town. Rykard made a pact with a giant serpent, right? Who's actually another outer god like the Greater Will? And then he let the serpent eat him and now he's the face inside the serpent? So when he wants you to join the famaleee, he really wants to eat you and what, absorb your power? So then if Henricus gets eaten by the snake, then he gets spit out as a Recusant phantom to attack you? I don't get the deal with all the other recusants in the manor, unless they're just not as worthy as you are and never got introduced/eaten by the snake. I believe that because of when the invasion happens in the game that Henricus is just basically ahead of you in the volcano manor 'questline'. if the invasion still happens even after you finish that storyline then i guess it is just some kind of time travel thing.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 12, 2022 16:37
|
|
|
skasion posted:You’re forgetting the Nox of the Eternal Cities, who are to my mind the most interesting of the ancient civilizations. Their ruins are absolutely gigantic, exist above and below ground, and they were apparently in conflict with the Greater Will. What’s more, they seem to have had some similarity to Ranni’s dark moon ideology. Reading between the lines, it sure seems like they were an advanced civilization which got nuked into subterranean bunkers by alien aggression, to the point of deliberately meteor-bombing them with Astel to gently caress them over even once they were underground. i'm inclined to agree with this assessment, i think astel was let in to the underground on purpose during the war with the stars. the place he ended up is Literally Gatekeeping the area Ranni needs to bring on the age of stars. Astel guards the elevator to the south-westernmost rise in Liurnia, where Ranni's personal Two Fingers are. A great deal of the backstory of the game is the Greater Will (or maybe just the Erdtree) clamping down on competitors: - Genocide of the Great Caravan by sealing them underground, due to their 'heretical' beliefs (nomadic merchant's set descriptions) - Making a pariah of any priest who sees the flame of ruin within the faith (prophet start + description of the flame sling spell) - War on the Nox - Defeat and sealing of the Scarlet Rot civ (builders of the ruins in the lake of rot I think) by the blind swordsman - War with the Dragons and Beastmen (the previous civilisational order, mentioned a bunch of times in the beastmen items + malformed dragon set + dragon knight's weapons) - War with the Fire Giants (which ironically might have been a mercy killing, given that a few of the giant items mention the fire giants being Cursed to guard the flame of ruin before the Erdtree came along) - War with the Carians and Raya Lucaria, which gave way to a fairly one-sided alliance (Rennala and Radagon's marriage), inducting a 'safe' version of star and moon study into the golden order to try and keep sorcerors in check. - Forbidding Primeval Current research (Sellen's questline, I don't know if the Primeval Current is a rival outer power or maybe just the source of all things) - Even the Shattering can be seen this way. Marika had given birth to multiple Empyreans, aka vessels for outer gods. Combined with the decline of the Erdtree's vitality, it was pretty clear that both her and it's time had come. The shattering hosed up Ranni's plan with the Black Knives and rune of death, took Malenia from Miquella's side, which allowed Mohg to steal Miquella from the Haligtree, taking out two competitors with one move (the haligtree and malenia's scarlet bloom) and then if you buy into my crackpot theories: - the attempt by the erdtree to replace the fire aspect of the Greater Will with the moon aspect in the Golden Order, as an attempt by the Erdtree to avoid being burned as part of its necessary lifecycle - this ties together the genocide of the Great Caravan (who saw and eventually called into the world the Frenzied Flame) and the explusion of priests who see flame in the faith - the Three Fingers, via Hyetta, tell you that the Greater Will made a mistake in the current order and that it needs to be torn down and started again. - that is interesting because it's essentially the same conclusion that the Noble Goldmask reaches, that the golden order is flawed and must be repaired there are a lot of moving parts and different motivations between the greater will - erdtree - marika, because i think despite being intended to be a unified expression of the greater will, marika AND the Erdtree have their own motivations. edit: holy poo poo this is so helpful to my Dumb rear end Theory khwarezm posted:Something I like about Dragonlord Placidusax is that if you look at his model you can see that in addition to his two currently existing heads he seems to have lost three additional heads at some point and still has the the neck stumps. It brings to mind the hands and finger motif that's used throughout the game, and similarly you have the parallel of the two fingers and later on the 'missing' three fingers for the lord of Frenzied flame route that together make up the total of five. So does this all imply that beings elevated by the gods are deprived of that which makes them whole to keep them weaker and more controllable? you have no idea also the Old Lord's Talisman i think shows the dragon in his intact state juggalo baby coffin fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Apr 12, 2022 |
|
#
¿
Apr 12, 2022 17:12
|
|
|
Vintersorg posted:Do we ever find out who killed him? Depraved Perfumers who came to the town to poach jars for their recipes. its also worth noting the patterns that come up again and again, there is a real fisher king theme going on. Alexander's questline (along with Diallos and the Jar Bairn) seems to represent the intended order of things. A champion, filled with the strength of many fallen, defends the people of the world from other threats. The champion passes their prime but accepts their end with dignity. The champion's remains pass on to the next generation, who had also been protected and nutured by a failed champion, who had come face to face with what he thought he wanted and turned away afraid and ashamed. But he accepts the job of steward, and the sacrifice of both his dream and his life allows the next generation to survive and become the next champion the champion could be alexander or the erdtree the next generation could be the jar bairn or the tarnished or nepheli loux the failed champion is diallos or gideon it's also how the order of things is presented to you when you first visit roundtable hold. but the truth is that in the actual world, things have gone wrong. the Erdtree is no Alexander, it's trying to escape the death it really can't, and the entire world is suffering for it. Gideon is no Diallos, instead of being kind and nuturing he is cruel and manipulative, and instead of giving up on a futile quest, he has dedicated his life to it. Even his mace represents reaching for something fundamentally out of reach. Even Jarburg is like the Roundtable Hold, a little place cut off from the rest of the world (literally in Jarburg's case, abstractly in Roundtable Hold's case) populated by all one type of thing (living jars and tarnished), like a safe oasis for people who are otherwise constantly in combat. Every questline involves someone succeeding or failing to accept the truth of their situation. Alexander is cracked, Diallos isn't a tough guy, Rya is of unknown parentage. a really direct comparison is Edgar and Kenneth Haight: both are initially delusional about the state of their fortress and the state of their position. Edgar, despite seeming more down-to-earth, clings to his command. Kenneth, despite seeming like a total dickhead, immediately reckons with the state of Limgrave when he sees his fortress. Edgar's path leads him to the loss of a child, madness, and mass murder. Kenneth's quest leads him to Nepheli Loux's side as consort of the new Lord of Limgrave, which is a bizarrely hopeful ending for such a hosed up zone. Kenneth and Edgar are both parallels for Marika, one the road she took and one the road she was meant to take by the Greater Will. Marika refused to reckon with the state of the Erdtree and clung to her command, and as a direct result lost in total one child (the soul of godwyn and the body of ranni), and led the wider world to madness and slaughter. sorry this is rambling but the lore of the game is very interconnected, like the elden ring itself it's a whole bunch of repeating and intertwined patterns, and following one leads you to another.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 12, 2022 17:40
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 20, 2024 16:10 |
|
|
Megasabin posted:I do mention the Eternal Cities, but I don't mention the Nox, because I do not think the Nox are the original inhabitants of the Eternal City. I list the Ancient Dynasty of the Eternal City, of which you only see a singular NPC, their priests known as the Claymen. The Ancient Dynasty of the Eternal City is destroyed by Astel, Naturalborn of the Void, who came on a falling meteor long before the Nox ever arrived in the Eternal City. Astel is also likely the reason the Dark Moon is no longer present in the Eternal City. I think you're right about the water dancer, and the dragons thing, and I think that leads me to an interesting thought were those final dragons who attacked the erdtree the dragon equivalents of the demigods we face? was the giant one in the city the dragon version of Marika? creatures, degenerate but still of great power, who refused to see that their time had come? Placidusax definitely exhibits a trait from our time as khwarezm pointed out: two of something with an absent three (heads and fingers) also regarding the Nox: Architecturally there are two distinct sets of cities underground. Nokstella and Nokron have very bloodborney aesthetics, but Uhl Palace Ruins and the Siofra Palace Ruins are a very distinct more ancient style. The claymen are also always seperate from the mimics, so I don't know if they're related. I think the Nox built amongst the ruins of that older civ. Uhl Palace also shares an architectural style with the ruins in the Lake of Rot and the rot temple after it, so it could be possible that the claymen civ was the rot civ? although you don't see too much scarlet rot in the siofra ruins that also look the same.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 12, 2022 17:47
|
|