Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
Which horse film is your favorite?
This poll is closed.
Black Beauty 2 1.06%
A Talking Pony!?! 4 2.13%
Mr. Hands 2x Apple Flavor 117 62.23%
War Horse 11 5.85%
Mr. Hands 54 28.72%
Total: 188 votes
[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

 
  • Post
  • Reply
dwarf74
Sep 2, 2012



Buglord

Professor Beetus posted:

[b]So the current contributors to the OP I have currently listed are:[/b
I too have the grey star of shame and neither want nor need anything, for my power is eternal

Also - my younger kid has now developed a slight fever. PCR test was done earlier today but it takes too drat long, so I grabbed a self-test for him just for like slight peace of mind or something. Waiting the 10 minutes right now.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

dwarf74
Sep 2, 2012



Buglord

Professor Beetus posted:

:ohdear: Best wishes to you and your family; hope it's nothing serious.

e: oh wow it's been a while since I made a quote not edit double post.
Rapid test came back negative. I know that's worth little, ultimately, but my current guess is RSV. We'll get PCR back hopefully tomorrow but I'll take what little reassurance I can right now :shobon:

dwarf74
Sep 2, 2012



Buglord
Negative PCR results for the family. Just a bad cold for my youngest after all. :toot:

dwarf74
Sep 2, 2012



Buglord

dalstrs posted:

CVS and Walgreens have started scheduling vaccines for kids. Have my son's first scheduled for Sunday.
Yup, got both of mine in for this weekend.

https://www.walgreens.com/findcare/vaccination/covid/19/landing

dwarf74
Sep 2, 2012



Buglord
lol, I've now been accused of child abuse and hating my kids three times for telling folks in a local Facebook group they can book appointments at Walgreens and CVS.

dwarf74
Sep 2, 2012



Buglord

Henrik Zetterberg posted:

I don't know the details of these studies and how they're conducted, but am I reading this correct that 7 people contracted COVID, Pfizer gave them a sugar pill vs the pill that could have possibly saved their life, and they died instead?

Like, I get you need a placebo group, but man that's brutal to read if I have the correct take on it.
Yeah there's been a substantial debate about this in medical ethics for decades. Placebo groups are great to prove efficacy, but you may be able to prove it without actually giving people sugar pills just by looking at individuals outside the study. At least the control group got standard care....

dwarf74
Sep 2, 2012



Buglord

Stereotype posted:

Endemic covid means that we have to do social distancing, mask wearing, and have pandemic restrictions forever. It doesn’t mean we get to do what we are doing now and pretend like it is 2019.
I have bad news for you.

dwarf74
Sep 2, 2012



Buglord
Truly, if we eliminate everything worth living for, defeating covid is simplicity itself! Here, allow me to suggest enormous and impossible social changes by shitposting one-liners. This lets me pretend it's more reasonable than it is if you bothered to think about it for even a second.

As a bonus, I'll also pretend that inhumane and frankly nihilistic super-extra-authoritarianism won't lead to even more deaths than covid!

dwarf74
Sep 2, 2012



Buglord

Gio posted:

Related but unrelated thought.

While Zero Covid gets poo poo on here as unrealistic, long term it should absolutely be a goal. There seems to be, however, little impetus or urgency to develop sterilizing vaccines for Covid, just as there is in other costly solutions that hurt capital but would go a long way toward slowing the spread.
I'm not sure a "sterilizing vaccine" is actually a different thing. I'm not 100% sure it's even possible to develop such a thing; it's an outcome of high community vaccination rates.

dwarf74
Sep 2, 2012



Buglord

Gio posted:

Don’t be pedantic. The current vaccines are not capable of achieving sterilizing immunity, however you define it, in the way past vaccines have been capable of doing.
Like which ones? There is no vaccine I know of that's perfectly sterilizing - measles isn't, smallpox wasn't, etc.

I'm not being pedantic - I genuinely don't think perfectly sterilizing vaccines are an achievable goal for covid, particularly delta, and not really a thing we should expect of any vaccine. Prior vaccines look better because (a) there wasn't as much awareness or testing of asymptomatic infections, and (b) there were much higher community vaccination rates.

e: The most probable good outcome is that vaccination rates get so high, and post-infection treatments so good, that it becomes rarely severe or fatal. I don't think this is a failure of medicine or lack of will, this is just how vaccines work.

dwarf74 fucked around with this message at 02:12 on Nov 16, 2021

dwarf74
Sep 2, 2012



Buglord

Gio posted:

You know, you guys are right. This is the best we can do.
You're asking for something that may not be medically possible. That's not a failure of will. Honestly, it's kind of lovely to suggest the folks who invented a whole new kind of vaccine once already this pandemic just aren't trying hard enough.

goddamnedtwisto posted:

It's not *impossible* - almost all of the smallpox vaccines manage it, for example - but it's a matter of luck as to whether or not a given vaccine will generate sterilising antibodies.
I could be mistaken, but I'm fairly certain the smallpox vaccine wasn't fully sterilizing.

dwarf74 fucked around with this message at 02:35 on Nov 16, 2021

dwarf74
Sep 2, 2012



Buglord

VitalSigns posted:

It sounds like the suggestion is researchers like them aren't being funded enough, not the researchers personally are lazy or something
What's a reason to believe more funding would create a substantially more sterilizing vaccine, though?

Again, I don't think there's been a particular lack of funding into covid vaccine research these past few years.

dwarf74
Sep 2, 2012



Buglord

Abner Assington posted:

In terms of loving you up more than just the booster by itself, is there any sort of consensus on getting a booster+flu vaccine during the same visit?
Varies, just like everything. I'd recommend combining them and just getting it done.

I had no issues other than arm pain and some injection site swelling. But I haven't had negative side effects beyond that for any of these shots.

dwarf74
Sep 2, 2012



Buglord

Lager posted:

Hahaha, at work they just issued a notice that all employees must provide their vaccination status to the company by 12/5 in anticipation of the OSHA rule taking effect and the CHUDs on our work social media bullshit are absolutely losing their minds over it. Accusations of collaboration with the fascist Biden administration, insistence that this is a HIPAA violation, threats to quit, etc. etc.
My wife works at the same large corporation. :) She hasn't seen the social media thing, but she's very happy about it.

dwarf74
Sep 2, 2012



Buglord

Professor Beetus posted:

The country that doesn't have a functional enough government to pass policies that have the overwhelming support of the populace isn't going to suddenly grow the teeth to do what needs to be done to get to covid zero. It's a pipe dream. Get vaxxed, get boosted, wear masks, and live your life the safest way you can.

That's it, that's the best this loving poo poo hole country is going to get. Deal with it better than logging on to yell at a bunch of people who also don't have any loving control over public policy and remember that this thread isn't solely for people in the US.
Yup, this.

I'm puzzled how any of the national lockdown steps folks are advocating could realistically happen right now in late 2021 USA, no matter which party or individual (or even lack thereof) is in the executive branch. Gotta keep enforcement mechanisms in mind for the answer.

It's all well and good to shout into the void about ideal worlds disconnected from practical realities, and to shout at people who bring them up, but I don't know what good it does.

dwarf74
Sep 2, 2012



Buglord

Professor Beetus posted:

It's a situation where "ought" and "is" might as well be light years apart. There's all kinds of theory crafting of what could have been done or what should have been done, but I don't know how anyone looks at the tire fire of US government and thinks any of that was possible here. Pre-vaccine was the only time this country was going to see significant NPI measures and even that was half-assed and left to the states to bungle on their own (and sometimes intentionally because the government at the time assumed that it would kill more Democratic voters than GOP, which, in hindsight turned out to be pretty lol).
It's not merely states - it's counties. I'm in a blue state, but in a purple county surrounded by deep red. Enforcement here in town? Spotty but not terrible. We've got functional city government by and large, and there's broad local govt support for mask mandates, vaccination, etc.

If I go to any of the little towns around? Those red counties? There's nothing. Absolutely nothing. No masks, <50% vax rate, no distancing whatsoever - just a wide sea of corn, soybeans, Casey's, pickups, and TRUMP 2020 signs.

How do you get those rural counties to take this poo poo seriously? What's the magic incantation to get them to take precautions? Who's going to enforce it - the antivax county sherriffs? You're not hitting covid zero without it.

dwarf74
Sep 2, 2012



Buglord
It's important to remove as much friction with the booster process as possible. At-work clinics, drive-through, etc.

dwarf74
Sep 2, 2012



Buglord

Farmer Crack-rear end posted:

Is there any data on what proportion of the population supports various interventions (mask mandates, contact tracing, lockdowns, etc)?
I'd argue that national percentages are meaningless. Local percentages - by city and county - vary to a comical extent.

There's been surveys done on all of the above, at least I remember some from last year, but actual observed behavior is a much better marker for what people will tolerate and for how long.

dwarf74
Sep 2, 2012



Buglord
Just need health insurers to start charging the unvaccinated more. Ours already does this for smoking.

dwarf74
Sep 2, 2012



Buglord

Fritz the Horse posted:

Why would that give better protection than natural infection with SARS-CoV-2?

A natural polio infection gives lifetime immunity to polio. The attenuated poliovirus vaccine also gives lifetime immunity to polio.

A natural infection of SARS-CoV-2 does not give lifetime sterilizing immunity. Why on earth would you assume an attenuated SARS-CoV-2 vaccine would do that?
Surely, my internet research is more worthwhile than the education and experience of actual immunologists, and they've just missed this obvious thing

dwarf74
Sep 2, 2012



Buglord

mawarannahr posted:

I have zero evidence to support this (maybe campaigns against long-established vaccine policies?) but I feel the US population has, instead of learning from this experience, somehow unlearned things they used to know. I have no idea how that could be possible, but my heart and my best intentions tell me that’s true.
I agree. Antivax in general is not only becoming mainstream, but a part of the Republican platform.

I expect lower childhood vaccinations, lower adult boosters, etc for all vaccines in the near future, not just the covid ones.

I hope to be proven wrong, if anyone has any studies showing otherwise I'd love to see them.

dwarf74
Sep 2, 2012



Buglord

mod sassinator posted:

Oh I'm with you on that, believe me. If you want to talk about other countries handling of COVID you want me to bring up China again?

(4500 deaths total, 1.4 billion people)
Are we actually taking this number seriously?

dwarf74
Sep 2, 2012



Buglord

enki42 posted:

Anyone given their 5-11 kids shots yet? Any rough reactions? We're debating whether the flu shot and the COVID shot within a few days of each other is too much to handle.
10 and 11.

No side effects for either other than sore arms from getting both on the same night.

I had to keep them up until a few hours past their normal bedtime and they had worse side effects from that.

dwarf74
Sep 2, 2012



Buglord

VitalSigns posted:

I love how we're in a constant state of refusing to ever learn from the past.

Every time covid recedes a bit: the pandemic is over, I don't want to hear about lockdowns, back to brunch everybody, no cases won't go right back up you're just an incel shut-in! Just because they went back up every other time doesn't mean it will happen again, It's Different This Time!

Cases go right back up when everybody goes to brunch, obviously: nobody could have predicted this, well it's too late now, stop talking about "could have beens"!
So, I'll just go down this path again since this thread is hyper-focused on federal response.

Federal response doesn't mean poo poo at this point. Federal rules and regulations don't mean poo poo. Biden could waltz out, declare a hard two-week lockdown and it wouldn't mean poo poo.

Local response - not even states, we're talking counties and cities - are what controls brunch, bars, etc. You can sure get plenty of compliance in bigger cities (though much of even that is at this point voluntary if those are in red states).

But in those red counties? Small towns? The vast majority of territory (by area, not population) in the United States? It doesn't matter. There's zero measures taken to stop or slow covid. There's no enforcement mechanisms to make them care. Who would you rely on - the chud County sheriff? Local chud cops who want to eat out and who go to those small town bars?

Any response from anyone that doesn't get hyper-local simply doesn't matter at this point. Nobody in those little towns cares what the federal government says. They haven't since April or May 2020 - if not earlier. They care what their aunt in Facebook shares, or what Tucker Carlson says, etc.

dwarf74
Sep 2, 2012



Buglord

Wang Commander posted:

I mean the only way we get support for NPIs in the US is a variant that massacres the unvaxxed
I'm just some dude but I'm not excited by the idea of more people dying to preventable diseases just so they willingly protect themselves from preventable diseases.

Put me down for the controversial "It would be good if less people died instead of more" position. That's the goal of vaccination and npi's right? Less people dying?

dwarf74
Sep 2, 2012



Buglord

knulla posted:

So now that I know the temperature here, questions for you covid goons:

How sure are you that you're right about these vaccines being the way to end the pandemic? Looking for a confidence interval, e.g., "I am 100% sure these vaccines are the way out of this pandemic."

Is there any evidence that could come to light that would make you less sure of yourselves about the vaccines' efficacy? And what about their safety?
Every question you've asked has been abundantly answered. Vaccination is a core component of any successful strategy out of the pandemic. MRNA vaccines have been administered a few billion times now, and nothing in them sticks around more than a few weeks; they're exceptionally safe.

I could be convinced they're not effective if we weren't seeing what we're seeing - but the numbers are super clear that the vaccines are effective against severe disease, death, and even infection. It's simply idiotic to think they're ineffective at this point. I could be convinced they're unsafe if people were filling hospitals on side effects instead of with covid itself. Which they aren't.

Every single piece of evidence available says the vaccines are excellent and safe, and zero evidence says otherwise. They're not perfect, but an expectation of perfection is absurd.

Turning it around - in what possible way could you still doubt safety or efficacy with even a minimal grasp of statistics?

dwarf74
Sep 2, 2012



Buglord
I'm likewise curious how a virus which is known to cause blood clots and lasting cardiovascular issues can't be the cause of soccer dudes dying, while a vaccine has to be.

And kids are not basically immune to covid. They spread it just fine. And while they almost always have mild symptoms, there's been enough reinfections that "lifelong immunity" is clearly some kind of fb mommy-group collective delusion.

Myocarditis was looked at during the US approval process. Of the cases investigated, none were caused by the vaccine.

dwarf74
Sep 2, 2012



Buglord
Goddamn, I am sick of the 'lol florida is doin awesome at covid' bullshit being tossed around so I decided to grab the excess deaths data set myself.

Looks to me like they are reporting only 61,000 covid deaths while they've had well over 148,000 excess deaths since 4/1/20. Can someone check my work here? I only have my lovely home analytics tools, and don't feel like logging into my work PC to gently caress with this over thanksgiving.

https://data.cdc.gov/api/views/xkkf-xrst/rows.csv?accessType=DOWNLOAD&bom=true&format=true%20target=

dwarf74
Sep 2, 2012



Buglord

Wang Commander posted:

OOCC why are you so invested on litigating every inch of covid being bad like it's WW1? What do you gain from clinging to toxic optimism?
Neither they nor anyone else in this thread can do a drat thing about covid other than at the personal scale. It's okay to be optimistic for mental health purposes. And nice to read optimism sometimes for the same reason.

Calling it "toxic optimism" is kinda weird, particularly about a person who has zero influence on the reality of the situation.

dwarf74
Sep 2, 2012



Buglord

nexous posted:

Being overly optimistic leads relaxed NPIs and a false sense of security leading to continued spread of Covid.

People constantly cite “oh well it’s everywhere nothing we can do now” as a reason to just get your vax and live your life. But here is round two, we get another chance to stop things before it gets unstoppable. And being overly optimistic will lead us to failure.

Even if omicron turns out to be a dud, we need to treat it as if it’s a huge threat right now, because the potential is there.

Yes, if we do everything right, it will look like we wasted our time and money.
I don't think anyone in this thread is avoiding vaccination or shirking our NPI's. Having some optimism everything isn't hosed forever is good for mental health.

dwarf74
Sep 2, 2012



Buglord

Elea posted:

Genuinely curious, what's the DnD take on China and Taiwan's handling of the pandemic so far? Should the entire world have copied their policies and removed the coronavirus from circulation or is it good that this continuously mutating virus is freely allowed to circulate?
Repeatedly, ad nauseam. Unless you have a way to get the world on-board with strict lockdowns in November 2021 it's pointless.

dwarf74
Sep 2, 2012



Buglord

Elea posted:

I have to think some of the cultural opposition to fighting covid came about from the half baked measures we pursued in the first place. Like if we implemented effective mass testing and had a passport system in the first heady days of the pandemic then maybe people would have accepted that, not wanting covid positive people running around.

Besides, building up a huge testing infrastructure could have been retooled for all manner of medical testing afterwards and been a good step towards providing better healthcare and disease control. It would also make Covid treatment more equitable for the poor who can't afford constant testing to get early treatment.
Unless you have a time machine I'm not sure what your point is.

dwarf74
Sep 2, 2012



Buglord

Elea posted:

We can't be critical of past decisions when talking about one countries policies compared to another?
Go ahead, but unless you have detailed plans for enforcement in red counties it's kind of pointless. Hypothesis talk isn't worth poo poo without acknowledging political realities.

dwarf74
Sep 2, 2012



Buglord
Ah yes that could never create problems larger than the problems it's trying to solve.

Tell me - do countries in the midst of a Civil War generally do well on pandemic containment measures? Seems like that would have a negative effect on federally-funded public health initiatives to me.

dwarf74
Sep 2, 2012



Buglord

LionArcher posted:

We could beat this thing in two months. Always could. But it would require measures all the broke brain libs and conservatives would bitch and moan about. They wouldn’t really do anything though, because most people are cowards.

If the government treated this half as seriously as they treated the BLM protests, it would be done.
Focus on federal measures is absolutely useless for the United States right now.

First, describe how you are going to get red counties to actively enforce anything or give a gently caress. Without, in turn creating other problems (like, say, armed uprisings or turning the military against citizens) that would make it even harder to pursue national public health initiatives like pandemic containment.

Goons love to focus on national politics because the answers are catchy and sound easy and obvious (beep boop two months easy, stop bitching, libs!), but all actual covid response is local.

BLM protests were pretty easy for the feds to quash because they were small, localized, and mostly contained within big cities. Oh, and racist media organizations weren't sympathetic, that too.

Compare the optics of "scary minorities busting up targets" to the optics of "Good Red-blooded Real 'Muricans just peacefully going about their lives without that dang gubmint telling them what to do." Compare a military operation in like a dozen cities to a military operation in thousands of tiny loving Chudvilles spread out over tens of thousands of square miles that look just like every other Chudville, including the ones those soldiers are from, waged against people who aren't obviously and actively doing things that look bad. (Yes, they're doing things that are actually way worse and killing infinitely more people! But to show that, you have to involve boring numbers and charts and science, you can't just film, like, a ransacked big box store.)

dwarf74
Sep 2, 2012



Buglord

TulliusCicero posted:

I get this sentiment but you either do what's "hard" and make Dipshit FREEDUMB morons angry, or you let a pandemic spin wildly out of control and kill a million+ Americans because "what if the Right doesn't like it!". This could have been contained in February-March of 2020 if people had just done what the CDC reccomended and not loving listened to dipshit anti-maskers, and crushed this moronic anti-intellectual movement in its crib with extreme prejudice (it did not help that the power that be at the time was the biggest dipshit anti-intellectual of them all). Instead we both sided loving Anti Vaxxers and Horse pill treatments: what an absolute poo poo-show of a failed state we live in
....
I'm sick of hearing "BUT THAT WOULD BE REALLY HARD AND UNPOPULAR TO DOOOO COME ON": gently caress politics, gently caress elections, gently caress leaders who are cowards. loving do something.
It's not about what's hard/unpopular/angering at this point. It's about what is actually really for-real possible when the means of enforcement in red states and red counties are mostly on Covid's side.

Covid money is federal, but covid response and enforcement are all local.

dwarf74
Sep 2, 2012



Buglord

The worst submarine posted:

it has been 5 hours and many posts and not a single person has disagreed with this what the gently caress, i love this forum. the literal "government implanted mind control is good and you dislike it because you went to church" post
oh my god

i keep rereading it to see if i mistook something but loving no, lol, everyone here is just chillin with the mandated zombify guy. im in a They Live parody where I just put on the glasses and I twist my head left and see this loving post walking down the street, but then i realize the glasses have no lens
He also soberly suggested carpet-bombing Florida.

Nobody's wasting their time on arguing with him, with or without ignore lists, for what I should hope are obvious reasons.

dwarf74
Sep 2, 2012



Buglord
The anime thing buries the lede quite a lot.

Mild symptoms started Nov 22nd. Yah, it's been here. And it's all over that loving anime convention too. Community spread going back > 2 weeks domestically.

dwarf74 fucked around with this message at 17:58 on Dec 2, 2021

dwarf74
Sep 2, 2012



Buglord

MadJackal posted:

So it’s already in NYC then, just in time for the holidays. gently caress.
It was at a national, maybe international, anime convention.

It's potentially already everywhere.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

dwarf74
Sep 2, 2012



Buglord
Quick timeline question if I may interrupt the forums war.

Monday night, my two boys got their second shots, finally. I'm pretty stoked but that's not the point.

Yesterday I get a call from my older son's school to come pick him up as a close contact. A girl who sits next to him in one class tested positive on Monday (either in-school shield testing or elsewhere; I dunno).

He's been totally fine, nothing remotely on the list of symptoms. But I'm thinking if he got infected on Monday followed by the vaccine later that night, his immune system would be freaking the gently caress out right now, wouldn't it?

Don't get me wrong, we're quarantining through a minimum of a week - getting tested Monday - but I'm thinking he'd be feeling pretty lovely now, right?

How does this poo poo work when you get both vaxxed and exposed on the same day?

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply