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AlexanderCA
Jul 21, 2010

by Cyrano4747

aphid_licker posted:

Barring American political unreliability dramatically increasing ofc.


Yeah, about that.
I was pretty resigned about the F35A being the least bad option for small NATO countries like mine. Not so sure lately though with Trumps foreign policy inclinations.

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AlexanderCA
Jul 21, 2010

by Cyrano4747

JcDent posted:

If they cook on orbital reentry, you don't even have to give the troops heaters.

A rock(et) or something.

AlexanderCA
Jul 21, 2010

by Cyrano4747
Yeah it's funny how they feel the need to push propaganda like that glass fiber monstrosity while actually producing a indigenous variant of a existing design or keeping their F14s flying are no poo poo serious achievements for such a sanctioned country, guess that's just not sexy enough for the leadership.

AlexanderCA
Jul 21, 2010

by Cyrano4747

VKing posted:

Norwegian frigate Helge Ingstad collided with a tanker last night and has been run aground to prevent it from sinking.

Article in Norwegian https://www.aftenposten.no/norge/i/yv2kBa/Tankskip-og-fregatt-kolliderte-ved-Oygarden--syv-lettere-skadet

Only some minor personell injuries on the frigate, and the tanker only suffered minor damage, but the damage to the frigate looks substantial.
The sea state was supposedly calm, and the cause for the collision is not yet known.

E: Video of the crew being evacuated https://vimeo.com/299606100

EE: Welp, this is getting expensive


I'm reading comments online she was docked when rammed by the tanker being towed by tugboats.

AlexanderCA
Jul 21, 2010

by Cyrano4747

Murgos posted:

Lol that the report was supervised by Captain America.

I thought you meant the guy from generation kill. Took me a bit to figure it out.

AlexanderCA
Jul 21, 2010

by Cyrano4747
Trying to summon dark lord Dahir Insaat I see.

AlexanderCA
Jul 21, 2010

by Cyrano4747
I've lived in the Netherlands all my life and never have been farther than Paris or London. I was poor growing up so we didn't go abroad on vacation and since then personal circumstances have largely prevented trips. I am now 31 years old and I have never even seen a mountain.

Weirdly for a bit of a military plane nerd, I've never flown either.

AlexanderCA
Jul 21, 2010

by Cyrano4747
Oh yeah, I could do it financially nowadays, just have to make time for it. Those short distance flights are also kind of environmentally wasteful.

AlexanderCA fucked around with this message at 03:14 on Dec 3, 2018

AlexanderCA
Jul 21, 2010

by Cyrano4747
Thats actually a great idea. Might do that once I've finished my courses and started my graduation project in spring.

AlexanderCA
Jul 21, 2010

by Cyrano4747

Pursesnatcher posted:

AHEM.

Edit:
While time from call to replace the (even older) fleet to actual retirement isn't looking as bad as Canada's (yet) this needs to be put into a broader perspective of Norwegian heli procurement. We decided to buy a bunch of NH90's back in 2001, which were all supposed to be entering service between 2005 and 2008. In reality, the first one arrived in 2011, and was unfit for operations. By the end of 2017, we'd received a third of the units ordered, which were being used for testing and "error correction". As of right now, we hope to have full capacity delivered sometime in 2021. At 80 percent over budget.

For those who might not know. NH90 derives from "NATO Helicopter for the 1990s"

Somehow it became a clusterfuck even though we have plenty of competent helicopter manufacturers in Europe.

AlexanderCA
Jul 21, 2010

by Cyrano4747

loving loss edits.

AlexanderCA
Jul 21, 2010

by Cyrano4747

Tias posted:

Why should we cripple our national budget on J-35s, while children still starve and people still go homeless, just so we have a war penis to shake at Russia on the Americans' behalf?

Denmark is a rich country in NATO. If people are going homeless/starving in a country with a gdp of 300 billion (50k/capita) that's not because its spending 1% on defense.

Meanwhile having a big military dick to wave at Russia is kind of the point of NATO collective defence. Especially for small countries such as yours and mine that stand no chance on their own. Now if you disagree with that you should probably advocate leaving NATO instead.

One thing people seem to forget is that those generous European welfare states of days past were built during the cold war when we all spent much more on defense. That we do neither today is a political choice for lower taxes etc, not some inescapable constraint.

AlexanderCA
Jul 21, 2010

by Cyrano4747
Looking at the alliance as a whole, I would think you would want those going to the poorer Eastern European members. Have the small rich high labour cost western europeans field the higher tech specialist stuff like the F35 for penetrating iads. While the poorer countries get the nato compatible F16s rather than ex combloc stuff.

Of course that requires coordination and doesnt work if alliance members go "welp cant deter the russians solo, might as well not bother."

AlexanderCA
Jul 21, 2010

by Cyrano4747

Cyrano4747 posted:

.

The US absolutely has a national security need for minesweeping. Arguably Belgium does not because if their harbors are being mined they’re in a badly hosed situation that won’t be fixed by a few sweepers.

Edit: ^^^ If they want to be the mine sweeper experts and export sweepers and buy American air protection with their sweeping prowess maybe it makes sense again

I get the point you're making but this happens to be a bad example. Dutch and Belgian minehunters are kept quite busy dealing with North sea UXO and minehunting is arguably the primary focus of the Belgian navy. In fact Belgium is in charge of the project replacing both Dutch and Belgian minehunters, while the Netherlands will develope a class of frigates that will also replace the existing 2 Dutch built Belgian Frigates.

AlexanderCA
Jul 21, 2010

by Cyrano4747

SgtMongoose posted:

Interested in this hypothetical, Academi/Blackwater decides to invade and take over one of the low countries. Light infantry arriving on chartered flights. NATO, at Trump's desire, doesn't come to the rescue. Do they succeed?

So In the Netherlands case, some light infantry on commerical jets vs a mechanized, a motorized, a air assault brigade and a marine brigade. I don't know how large blackwater/academi/are but NL/BE at least are rich countries with population in the 10-20million range.

AlexanderCA
Jul 21, 2010

by Cyrano4747

The F16 at least was never really meant for the roles it is most commonly used in nowadays. It was originally conceived as a lightweight, cheap, air to air, daytime fighter.

Everything else has been bolted on since. I imagine the end of the cold war changing priorities has a lot to do with it as well.

AlexanderCA
Jul 21, 2010

by Cyrano4747

EvilMerlin posted:

This isn't the 1940's or early 1960's anymore.

What has fundamentally changed? But AFAIK the Japanese were arguing exactly what you are.

AlexanderCA
Jul 21, 2010

by Cyrano4747

Nebakenezzer posted:


e2: Light googling shows they were a Danish design that worked quite well until the fed got ahold of it

:geert:

AlexanderCA
Jul 21, 2010

by Cyrano4747
Now I want to see a dahir insaat - Mike sparks collab.

AlexanderCA
Jul 21, 2010

by Cyrano4747

mlmp08 posted:

Again, my personal bias, but I inherently trust scientists and engineers more than the insurance industry.


I'm a mechanical engineer and I don't trust engineers worth poo poo. Every time there is a open letter by "experts" discounting climate change here half of the signatories are engineers stepping outside their field. Supposedly we're also overrepresented among terrorists and religious extremists.

AlexanderCA
Jul 21, 2010

by Cyrano4747

Tremblay posted:

CPFH being lower for the F-15X doesn't strike me as pie in the sky thinking.

I thought the engines were supposed to be a large part of the cpfh?

AlexanderCA
Jul 21, 2010

by Cyrano4747

Cessna posted:

I can only lol at the idea of trying to use that thing for amphibious operations.

Isn't that it's purpose?
Not in the initial assault, but in bringing the heavy stuff ashore after the beachhead is taken.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USNS_Montford_Point_(T-ESD-1)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expeditionary_Transfer_Dock

AlexanderCA
Jul 21, 2010

by Cyrano4747

Cessna posted:

That's an entirely different mission. I'll quote lolwikipedia here:

"amphibious landings"

But, hey, let's half-rear end it with a ship built for an entirely different purpose.

I was replying to you saying this:

Cessna posted:

I can only lol at the idea of trying to use that thing for amphibious operations.
Amphibious landings being a subset of amphibious operations.
I'm not arguing they're replacing well-dock ships. But the US navy seems to think they're part of the future of amphibious operations in a larger sense.

I didn't know if you were aware they're actually new navy ships not commercial offshore vessels, which they resemble.

AlexanderCA
Jul 21, 2010

by Cyrano4747

Mortabis posted:

How about states, cities, and bodies of water? No, people.

AlexanderCA
Jul 21, 2010

by Cyrano4747
A similarly, there are 4 lieutenant ranks in the Dutch navy. 3rd class (equivalent army 2lt), 2nd class (army 1lt), 2nd class senior category (army captain),1st class (army major). Then there's captain-lieutenant (army lieutenant colonel) before you get to captain (army colonel).

Such a mess.

AlexanderCA
Jul 21, 2010

by Cyrano4747

Shooting Blanks posted:

ULA launched the AEHF-5 today, one left to go. One thing that caught my eye in the Wikipedia, though, is that the non-US users are Britain, Canada, and the Netherlands. Britain and Canada are completely unsurprising, but I'm a little surprised the Dutch are in on this. Did they contribute monetarily just for use of the system, or is there some strategic reason why they would be onboard? They're a close ally so it's not like providing access to, say, Turkey, but it still caught me by surprise.

Doing a quick scan of a 2005 statement by the state secretary of defense (junior minister):

There's a structural shortage of capacity at our allies that have their own satelites (France, Italy, Spain, UK, US) which we previously borrowed/rented? So it's been decided to buy a stake in the AEHF program in order to have guaranteed secure access in case of high intesity conflicts. Commercial satelites will still be used for low intensity conflicts.

https://www.parlementairemonitor.nl/9353000/1/j9vvij5epmj1ey0/vi3an94t3zzd

Diving into the budget, it looks like we're buying a stake worth 132 million euros.

AlexanderCA
Jul 21, 2010

by Cyrano4747
I'm going to Berlin for 5 days in October. What is the must see thread related stuff in the most cold war of cities?

AlexanderCA
Jul 21, 2010

by Cyrano4747
Thanks for the recommendations. Should note I live in Enschede (eastern Netherlands). So easier to visit more western German destinations another time.

AlexanderCA
Jul 21, 2010

by Cyrano4747

Captain von Trapp posted:

[Standard jeremiad against moral equivalence here.]

Now that that's out of the way, these are fairly pervasive tropes in Cold War spy fiction. It's pretty much John le Carre's whole schtick. Which isn't too say his work is without literary merit; it's really good. I haven't seen the film adaptations though, and couldn't say how they stack up.

I haven't read any of his but I really liked tinker tailor and definitely recommend it.

AlexanderCA
Jul 21, 2010

by Cyrano4747
To come back to the discussion on percentage of GDP spent on defense, the Netherlands has included in pension payments and Marechausse (basicly customs/military police) as defense spending in order to pump up it's number and appease Trump. Neither of which really stops Ivan. That said, the previous article on Canadian spending comes close to acting like Canada is doing better than (20 times smaller population) Estonia because it spends more in absolute amount, which is just as dumb as treating the percentage as holy. There has to be some taking into account of a nation's size and economy when determining if they're doing their share in a alliance.

AlexanderCA
Jul 21, 2010

by Cyrano4747

Hauldren Collider posted:

I think it's kind of weird that bombing people is allowed under the laws of war but destroying a statue or whatever is not

Kinda like how full metal jacket bullets are okay to kill people with but killing them with a hollow point is a no-no.

Doesn't make a lot of sense to me
Wel, blowing up monuments serves no military goal. Killing soldiers does. You are allowed to do all kinds of horrific things in the pursuit of defeating a military because that's what going to happen laws or not. What's generally forbidden is doing horrific things for shits and giggles and not actually weakening your opponent.

Off course I'm thinking about conventional war here, not the clusterfuck of the past few decades.

AlexanderCA
Jul 21, 2010

by Cyrano4747

Platystemon posted:

Is it really Madman Theory if the man’s not pretending?

Madman Praxis.

AlexanderCA
Jul 21, 2010

by Cyrano4747
BAH GAWD, THAT'S DAHIR INSAAT'S MUSIC!

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AlexanderCA
Jul 21, 2010

by Cyrano4747
A few off those chip machines have components I hosed up but somehow passed QC back in my student night shift job at a ASML subcontractor.

But yeah the real know how for the machines that actually mass produce chips is officially in the Netherlands, with the reality that a massive 60% of personell are expats. Lots of phds.

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