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Sephyr
Aug 28, 2012

Evil Fluffy posted:

People today don't like Commando because it's good as a movie. People like it because when you think "ridiculous 80s action movie" Commando sits atop the pile. Movies like Predator and Conan were good as movies, Commando is good because it's so over the top ridiculous at times and Arnold has some amazing one-liners in it.

The Expendables movies are probably the closest thing to Commando recently. You don't watch The Expendables for good acting, storytelling, or anything other than over the top action movie schlock and people throwing out cheesy-as-hell lines. IE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59931880kJY

The "break into a gun store and basically come out packing missile launchers and 88mm howitzers" scene formatted my young 7-year-old mind that the US was a magical place of utter gun-nuttery.

Then I grew up and saw that was a silly caricature and got sad.

Then I grew up MORE and saw that my young eyes were unclouded and saw truly, and was happy.

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Sephyr
Aug 28, 2012

TK-42-1 posted:

Yeah he was supposed to have been hosed up taking Storms End but no POV character has seen him and the theory is that he’s raising an army in Highgarden or some other poo poo to ride in at the last minute or something stupid. This is going off crap I read like 5 years ago or so.

There's a twist there, but I doubt even Gurm knows yet. When the nuns are escorting Cersei from her cell and she asks for news, one of them starts talking about how Loras is doing -something- and then the head nun cuts her off.

Odds are his wounds were just exagerated to get dumb Cersei to tip her hand early.

Sephyr
Aug 28, 2012

Kylaer posted:

That was my response when I learned about the late Sir Terry Pratchett developing Alzheimer's :smith:

It was also my response when I dropped an eclair on the kitchen floor this morning.

Could have happened to GRRM and not a tasty, innocent source of carbs!

Sephyr
Aug 28, 2012

dentist toy box posted:

I reread the first book this month, my brain is broken and I don't know why I did this.

Eh, I can see the appeal. I never really liked GRRM's prose, but the Houses had an interesting dynamic, and I was legit curious to see which paths characters like Tyrion, Arya and Daenerys would take.

I wonder how much of the reason for it blowing up as it did was people being loving thristy for more fantasy after the Lord of the Ring movies got big, especially a more risqué version

Sephyr
Aug 28, 2012

Woodpile posted:

Darkstar has got it all over those chumps for he is of the night.

I'd like to be able to say I threw up in my mouth a little just reading that again

But it wasn't 'just a little'.

Sephyr
Aug 28, 2012

Blind Sally posted:

but seriously, you're better than that.

gently caress no he isn't!

Back on topic, what else is in confirmed production of GRRM's fare? I know there is a side TV series of Targaryen hijinks in the works, but I heard a ton of other projects are bouncing around,

Sephyr
Aug 28, 2012

Kylaer posted:

Is Dickens chat still ongoing?

Thank you, good sir/madam. I feel like I need a cigarette now.

Sephyr
Aug 28, 2012

banned from Starbucks posted:

I mean if not getting to bang Dany resulted in switching allegiances Jorah would have been the Night King loving years ago

This. I have no expectations for the quality of the series, but I can't believe they would do this. It would make LOST and its epically failed ending feel like the last 10 minutes of The Godfather in comparison.

Sephyr
Aug 28, 2012
Cleganebowl will be a thing in the series, but likely not in book. One of the aspects of the series is that fated, epic duels rarely happen. No duels between Kingslayer versus Knight of Flowers to see who wins, or vengeful victim foiling their nemesis' plan and telling him off before killing him.

Well, except for Arya, who basically just bumps into both her targets and the means to kill them all over the world like it's no thing.

Sephyr
Aug 28, 2012

precision posted:

Yeah Jordan padded the WoT out shamelessly (gently caress Crossroads of Twilight) but at least as death loomed he was putting a good faith effort into finishing it

GRRM shows every sign of contempt at the idea of just finishing the main plot already

I made the mistake of reading the released chapters for Winds when a flu was kicking my rear end.

Wow. Just...wow.

The Sansa one is regular GRRM level of lazy and boring. Here, look at there bit characters that appeared before. Now here's this hail mary gambit that may be Sansa's way out of eternal victim status and into some actual agency (but likely not).

Arianne chapter was pointless. The reveal of that whole sideplot was obvious and spoiled and such a wet fart in the grand scheme of things. And i actually -like- Dorne a bit because it's nice that there was a place with common sense to stay out of the setting's fuckery and just enjoy hot weather, spicy food and making bastards while everyone else slaughters each other on the doorstep of a years-long winter.

Aeron chapter was actually a bit nice, until you realize how desperate GRRM is that he had to resort to more and heavier Lovecraft themes to get a rise. And it just irks me how his idea of tension is to add in sudden villains for whom absolutely everything goes perfect 100% of the time. But uhhh, valyrian steel ARMOR! The nerds will go wild over that!!

The Arya chapter....felt like a prank. Like, below fanfic level of storytelling, narrative and characters. At this point just make her intern as a nurse for her weird pointless assassin cult that someone no one but Euron hires, and have Walder frey, Cersei and Roose Bolton all schedule a visit there at the same time.

Sephyr
Aug 28, 2012
"The God of many Faces is also the God of Many Arses, and so you must learn more about those as well if you mean to be one of us", the Kindly Man had said, and sent her to her new apprenticeship. Maester Bomul was an eccentric old man from Oldtown, one of the few to have earned a nightsoil link for the chain of many metals wrapped around his neck. Despite him being a foreigner, the braavosi had warmed up to the Arsemaester, and came to him for treatment of all sorts of maladies.

She had a new face as well, given in the catacombs below the House of Black and White. A bulbous nose, a thick black mustache and large myrish seeing-glasses made sure that no one would recognise her as Arya of House Stark. Bomul was brusque but not unkind, beating his servants only every other hour, and always let Arya grab a bite from his table, eggs cooked with fiery peppers and crusty bread still warm from the ovens.

She washed her hands and entered the purging chamber where the next patient awaited, and stood there mute. Bent over the table, undressed from the waist down, was Roose Bolton, Lord of the Dreadfort. He noticed her standing there and pierced her with his pale gray eyes. "Are you daft, girl? I have come all the way from Westeros to find a cure for my bowels. Prunes and leeches are of no avail any longer." She nodded silently, still unsure of what to say or do. "You are as useless as nipples on an arseplate." Bolton said, sighing. "I would have my son Ramsay set you aright, but he is outside killing every cat in the city after one crossed his path."

"Yes, m'lord. At once." She said as she found her voice, walking over to a nearby bench and unrolling a cloth wrapped around the utensils of her new trade. A variety of probes thick and thin, curved wires and wooden scoops all sorted out. On a shelf were vials of oils and oinments, and but the one she picked came from a pocket inside her sleeve, not the Arsemaester's wares. A refined form of the poison called the Strangler, the purple liquid called the Shocker felt cold as she used it to coat three of her fingers. "Take a deep breath, m'lord. This will hurt little and less."

Sephyr
Aug 28, 2012
I never quite got how wildlings can raid/steal in force with the Wall there. I guess some can paddle boats around the edges on the sea, but otherwise?

"Alright guys, we stole three cows, sixty pounds of grain and kidnapped some damsels. Sven, you carry the cows on your back up the Wall. I'll do it on the climb down on the other side. Jurgen carries the grain, and we'll try to talk the damsels into carrying our wounded after we teach them ice-climbing for the trip back. Really fruitful raiding trip!"

Oddly enough, the things that are actually worth enough AND are compact enough to justify distant/difficult raids tend to be gold, gems, spices and such, which are of no use to wildlings who are barely in the Bronze Age in a ridiculously hostile environment and have little commerce with the people who actually value those things.

Sephyr
Aug 28, 2012

Katt posted:

I wonder if GRRM even knew who Jons mother was by the time Jon went to the wall.

Early drafts she was probably a wildling queen with the power to defeat white walkers using eye-beams.

And Jon discovers this power right before a white walker is about to stab him and his mothers ghost shows up to explain everything.

Ehh, I think so. I remember reading it the first time back then and going "Hmm, sister dies saying 'Promise me, Ned" and he gets back with a mystery baby (who grows up to be slender and tall compared to his bulkier, stronger half-brother), this is pretty drat obvious unless it's a very cheap red herring".

Then again, this series has the whole Young Griff bullshit as well as the guild of unfailing magical assassins that can be hired by a crazy pirate and no one else in the entire world because it would break the plot, so it's very possible that GRRm still has the dartboard of ideas the used to pick the resolution.

Sephyr
Aug 28, 2012

Katt posted:

Wish GRRM had children. Then he might actually have a financial incentive for a longer time frame than "solid gold coffin 5 years from now"

Either that or his widow could have sold the rights to his work so Brandon Sanderson could finish the books.

Or after he croaks one of his literary-minded spawn would "continue the series based on his notes" in increasingly dumb, weird twists, a la Frank Herbert.

I mean, not that ol' Frank was batting a 100 when he left, but the House Atreides-Corrino-Harkonnen prequels were what showed me that my Dune fanboyism had a limit.

It was a...needlessly harsh lesson.

Sephyr
Aug 28, 2012

Katt posted:

Liked the part in the show where Arya is being chased by Terminator girl.

I guess the character that was the "old man" at the assassins guild in the book is split into Jaqen H'ghar and Terminator girl in the show right?

Wish I could agree. That felt so....lazy. When two face-dancing mystical assassins are chasing each other, I expected trickery. Little old ladies turning out to be your assassin. The doorhandle of your inn coated in poison. Finding traps in the hideout you thought no one knew about. Just having a fruit-cart-overturning chase and then a cheap gimmick (guess not everyone takes the blind-fighting extracurricular!) was....eh.

Especially since the show has managed many great scenes where the tension actually ramps up even for those who had already read the books. The Red Wedding. Tyrion's trial. The Red Viper vesus the Mountain. The battle on the Blackwater. Hardhome was a stellar example of creating thrills even when not supported by the book. Not sure if they are tired and bringing an undead bear is all they xan think of to spice things up, I'm tired, or if I'm the one tired. Likely both.

Sephyr
Aug 28, 2012

TK-42-1 posted:

She initially got shanked because the waif was pretending to be and old woman on the bridge.

goons are bad at watching shows

Yup. And then she forgot she was smart and just charged through a crowd when she spotted her miraculously-healed quarry again, like a video game critter with bad pathing.

Sephyr
Aug 28, 2012

nine-gear crow posted:

Yes. Every Greyjoy scene without Yara in it is painful to watch, and it gets worse the further you head into the show and it just devolves into Theon and Ramsay's Happy Fun Time Torture Show for like 2 and half years. But then again that's the Greyjoys in a nutshell even in the books, a bunch of painfully dumb short sighted idiots who loving luv 2 commit treason so loving hard and the only sensible one of the bunch (Yara/Asha) gets laughed at so hard when she says "Hey, maybe we should stop being rear end in a top hat backstabbers just a tiny bit" that she literally falls out of the plot.

Very much so. Asha is a bit like Davos in that they are there to point out how dumb everything is while being powerless to stop it, but Davos' contraint about beingunable to change things is a lot better. He's lowborn scum and his king is both an underdog and utterly inflexible, while also being in the thrall of the only religion with actuak power in the show.

Meanwhile, she's the presumptive heiress of her father for 10 years, respected and loved by all at first but then ignored and scorned when the plot requires her to be sidetracked. It's almost amusing how GRRM stumbles with the social contraints and barriers that supposedly limit his characters. See, Asha, Aeron and Victarion can't just kill or arrest Euron, because ironborn must never shed the blood of ron born and it would 'look bad'. Meanwhile, said crazy weird pirate is bouncing around the island killing lords with just the crew of one ship and no one gives a toss, even before he is crowned because guys, his horn was really loud, plus, dragons somewhere!

It's a bit like he never cares to give numbers to the Lannister armies; they are essentially infinite, because hey, he needed them to be the main power of that part of the story. Army wrecked at the Whispering Wood? No worries. Routing another larger force at Riverrun? They have reserves. A whole drat host crushed at Oxcross,with the lands of 5 houses plundered? No sweat, zero repercussions. Main army stopped crossing into the Riverlands fighting upstream and forced to a retreat? Not only are they fine but they teleport back to King's Landing soon afterward in top shape. And that's just in 2 books, as he cares even less from that point onward.

Meanwhile,every single problem of the Starks is pressing and real and about to undo them. They have less and 19k forces, and melting away by the day! If they stop, men will desert and head home for a harvest! Their lords are quarrisome and disloyal! This Karstark guy is so mad he literally forces the King to kill him, while forgetting that his firstborn is a hostage! Oh noes, a whole house defected! Hey, remember when they won the Battle of the Fjords? That was actually a defeat! He wanted the Lannisters to cross, which was why he didn't tell his uncle poo poo about his master plans!

Guess it's what happens when you have to force a status quo for so long while still giving the appearance of a dynamic plot.

Sephyr
Aug 28, 2012

thatfatkid posted:

On a positive note, the Spice King in Qarth and the Arya/Tywin Harrenhall scenes are really enjoyable and well-done. Shame that the show writers seem to have forgotten how to write engaging scenes,

Arya/Tywin was really entertaining and a good reminder that one can write new stuff that still follows the spirit of a work.

Similar episodes were Oberyn's speech to Tyrion in his cell when he accepts to be his champion. In the book, it's him belittling the Imp just as he arrives in the city and showing he's not there to be a pawn. in the show, it's a far more humane and personal scene, of him basically recognising Tyrion's humanity being as important as his own need for justice.

Sephyr
Aug 28, 2012

Katt posted:

The beetle story proved that the show writers can top GRRM if they wanted/had the time to.

No kidding! Pretty much all of the Jaime/Tyrion scenes were good, mostly because 1- They were there, unlike in the books where it's just alluded until things go to poo poo, and 2- Good actors woth a habdle on their characters can be trusted to bring even midling material to a good level.

Sephyr
Aug 28, 2012

Intel&Sebastian posted:

One of the dumbest things in the show to me is how cavalier Cersei is about her and Jaime after she's made queen. And yeah I understand that it's supposed to demonstrate how reckless and myopic she is but cmonnnnnn

Joffrey being RUMORED to be illegit was one of the main reasons the entire War of Five Kings sets off. Now the sept explodes, Tommen kills himself (3rd dead throne-sitter in what like 9 years?), Cersei makes a questionable claim on the throne, starts making major military moves that include basically wiping out the Tyrells (who were a lot more beloved than Lannisters) AND on top of all of it decides to tell the whole country "by the way I'm loving my brother and our kid will be the next ruler"?

I get that she's supposedly feared now, but KL would be a madhouse. Even just doing the war thing, after you've already mentioned the granaries aren't looking good for Winter, should have made the commonfolk be over it by now.

And speaking of which like lol hasn't the Lannister army been fighting non-stop for almost a decade now? Are they all sellswords at this point?

Yeah, it's dumb, but few people care. KLwas starving and rioting and literally tearing the Pope apart like a zombie flick because the Tyrrels had closed the food supply, but now, at the doorstep of winter? Eh, gently caress it, food's aplenty. Margaery was beloved of the commons, enough to make even Tywin and Joffrey pause? Well, sept exploded, Margewho again? Not to mention the High Sparrow. But then again, dead religious figures never really inspire anyone, right?

But yeah, them somehow making Lannisters go from a spent force to a loyal, lethal power is just dumb. Emm, they just got more soldiers! Theyt were out of gold, but, umm, mercs from outta nowhere who don't fear dragons! Abandon Casterly rock to strike at Highgarden without Varys hearing anything, and with all the troops being alright with their lands being plundered and their families imprisoned and raped!

Might as well make it that they hit this box with a question mark and a star popped out, and now they'e invincible for two seasons.

Sephyr
Aug 28, 2012

pseudanonymous posted:

Honestly, Ned dying at the end of book 1 was probably the highlight of the series. Even though getting there felt immensely contrived, it "subverted" tropes about protagonists and how fantasy works. It felt like anyone could die. Then it just became clear that we hadn't correctly identified the protagonist(s).

That may be true for younger readers, or those getting started on fantasy/sci-fi (and there's nothing wrong with that). For anyone who ever read Dune, Eddard Stark had Duke Leto sirens blaring out of his rear end.

Personally, I found his take on misfits if the system (Davos, Sandor Clegane, Tyrion before he became a weird parody of himself) far more noteworthy than a POV character being killed. Hell, even Jaime Lannister's inner life was an interesting read, though that narrative can get a bit confused.

Sephyr
Aug 28, 2012

Katt posted:

I liked the Baron in the original Dune. He was kind of a complex character. He wasn't out to kill Leto because slaying the patriarch of a house rankled him personally. Instead Leto just became collateral damage in a plot to kill the baron.

Sadly all the prequels turn the baron into this cartoonishly evil villain. He's a very noteworthy character. Even more so because the original is only featured in the first book and the rest of the franchise just makes references to him and they degrade with time and authors.

Good point. I remember one of the parts of God Emperor of Dumne that hosed with my teenage mind was Leto II telling the newest Duncan ghola that he misunderstood the Baron and that he was being naive to reduce him to a satanic fgure, while many of the heroic figures he isolized were more than monstrous enough. Being a gestalt being that incorporated the Baron and plenty of others, he knew what he was talking about.

Then again, one of the books basically had the Baron being an evil genetic shade that turned nice girls into sluts, but I guess you could consider that Alia's crumbling mental defenses succumbing to what she saw as the evil side of her genetic memory. If you are being charitable.


Hieronymous Alloy posted:

It's a sort of trap that authors who want to "subvert" genre expectations tend to fall into. On the one hand, they're never the first author to try to subvert that particular trope, and on the other, once you've blown up the story structure, how do you write a satisfying conclusion?

This is part of the reason for the "[X] author can't write endings" problem that's endemic in genre fiction. It's a lot easier to throw bombs at an existing structure, and a lot harder to build something really new.


Very true. It's one of the things that soured me a bit of Neal Stephenson. I really like his style and narratives and so much about his writing (even if in his books you are either a nerd-savant/kicker of rear end, or a whining nobody that should obey your betters), but he can't close a story for poo poo. Most of them just kind of stop, and it made me slow down a lot when it comes to reading more of his books.

Sephyr
Aug 28, 2012

Katt posted:


I always thought the "Baron likes little boys" thing to be a bit ham fisted. It's all done completely outside the story itself. Almost in a parallel universe between the baron and the reader as a way for the author to go "hate this guy now" with as little effort as possible.

Yup, definitely overboard. The Baron has -some- nuance, in that even he is not for just wiping out everyone on Arrakis, unlike his dunderhead nephew, if only because he's not one to waste a workorce. And as fond of brutality as he is, even he is not above trying for a subtler approach, setting Feyd up to be a savior figure to rule based on more than just jackboots.

But it does feel like Herbert was a bit insecure that he made the heroes a bit too cynical (showing how the Atreides use propaganda like fiends, have plans contemplating the elimination of whole segments of their population if things go south and are cocnerned that may not be possible in Arrakis, etc), he doubled down on making the Baron a pile of vices.

Which is amusing because in the 1980s movie even -that- wasn't enough and they had to go with heart plugs and grease baths and carefully nurtured pustules.

Sephyr
Aug 28, 2012

Katt posted:

Before I even got into the dune franchise I saw this piece like 14 years ago which basically became my mental depiction of the baron through the books.



Any depictions of him as a regular but puffy man never worked.

Oh my god, that is amazing.


But wait until you read the prequel books and discover the epic twist that the Baron used to be a SUPER BUFF gym rat and only got fat because he was infected with a tailored germ by a bene Gesserit, out of vengeance for him raping her . It completely casts the character in a new...light...?

And now I'm scared of googling Yezzan zo Qagaz, or whoever was the bizarre non-character that bought Tyrion during his slavery holiday.

Sephyr
Aug 28, 2012

Intel&Sebastian posted:

why the gently caress are you reading Dune sequel and prequel books?

Like at best there's about 1/4th of a good read in the direct sequel and the rest is a huge trashfire.

Hey, I once was a hopeful human being. Those books helped kill it way back then.

Besides, nowaday you don't even have to wait for the author's kids to churn our derivative, unasked-for drivel of the main work, as 'Fire and Blood' proves!

Sephyr
Aug 28, 2012

Elias_Maluco posted:

I'm learning a lot about bad sci-fi/fantasy writers who are also terrible human beings on this thread. More than I ever wanted to know

I wish I liked China Mieville's stuff better, because he seems to be a cool, chill guy.

Sephyr
Aug 28, 2012

Josuke Higashikata posted:

Bran has shot up to like 6'+ now so he's a gangly plaster of paris face mold cosplayer.

I remember around Season 2, watching it with friends, me telling tham that Bran had a serious case of "growing up to look like Geddy Lee" going.

Sephyr
Aug 28, 2012

PupsOfWar posted:

it's established in the books, yes.

it's also established as like...not really true

in the Dunk & Egg stories, Dunk gets knighted by an elderly hedge knight he'd squired for. Nobody takes this seriously, though, since it's like..."yeah sure kid, you got knighted by some old fucker we've never heard of who was probably a bandit"

so technically speaking any knight can make a knight, but it still takes some combination of connections/status/wealth to be recognized as such

You don't even have to go that far in the books. The Kettleblacks are a bunch of nobodies that pop up in KL one day saying they are knights, and are promptly brought into service in the freaking royal palace. One of them instantly becomes KINGSGUARD, and when asked who knighted him, he basically invents a name on the spot. "It was Ser, umm...Mouse....Notebook."

On some better passages, they comment that while any knight can make a knight, a knight's status derives partially from who knighted him. Stannis is a Lord, so even when he takes dubious people as knights other grudgingly accept because not doing it would spite a powerful house. But some crazy hedge knight serially knighting people would just make other snort and laugh in any court or castle.

It's one of those things in ASoIaF that actually makes some sense, until the story needs to take a dump on it for reasons.

Sephyr
Aug 28, 2012

nine-gear crow posted:


Also yeah I want Westeros to come out of this a republic too. Make Dany really live up to her "break the wheel" poo poo.

The funny part is that she won't even have to bother. Most houses and factions are basically disappearing the world (or the plot, which means the same thing) by itself through sheer dumbness or convenience. Tyrrel vs Martells feud? Gone, they all died. Tullys and Freys? Also kaput. Hightowers never moved a finger in the show or books. The Faith? Basically gone as well.

The only factions that still exist basically became unified modern little armies and early nation-states because the world lost all nuance. Lannisters all follow Cersei loyally despite her being an overt psycho with a goofy xombie bodyguard who everyine saw walking nude in shame (that was a big deal, until it wasn't) because eh, screw it. The Vale basically serves as a shapeless deus ex machina with no identity of its own.

Maybe everyone else dumbs themselves to death and the Hightowers just put a Citadel in each place and it becomes a giant campus. I dub thee Samwell Tarly, RA of the West dorms!

Sephyr
Aug 28, 2012

porfiria posted:

He’s a monster.

Ehh, I've fully shifted to the "GRRM loyalists deserve all the ribbing they can get", and now appreciate him basically goofing off and letting his fanbase alternate between fanwanking that Butterbumps is actually Azhor Azhai and wetting themselves every time he doe aan interview or a tweet.

I guess only John Ringo would be more justified in hating his own readers a bit. Or a lot.

Sephyr
Aug 28, 2012

PupsOfWar posted:

wasn't cersei's whole plan last season to wait until the North & Daenerys were exhausted fighting the Others, then mop 'em up

also wasn't the whole tension with Dany last season this idea that if she helped the North, Cersei would have time to consolidate the South against her
seems like the golden company should be, doing that

Hey, when you find that magical mercenary company that will take a job across half the world to help a losing side against -motherfucking dragons-, and are willing to work for a notoriously fickle and unstable employer on the eve of a long, brutal winter, you might as well just throw them into the frozen wastes to check out the undead abominations up close. Gotta see if there's anything they _won't_ do.

Maybe the Golden Company are the real Unsullied

Sephyr
Aug 28, 2012

chaosapiant posted:


Once character I really had hoped to see in the series was Victarion Greyjoy. I love that dude! Wears full plate on the deck of a boat because "gently caress it, don't care if I drown" and is just an all around badass. Instead we get this limpdick amalgamation of Euron and Victarion in the show version of Euron.

Victarion in the series would likely just be The Mountain with a squid theme.

I kinda liked him in the books because he is an undeniable terror, but also because it's one of the rare first-person depictions of a guy who is a genuine _oaf_.

Sees people laughing all around and only later realizes they were laughing at him, gets played by anyone who can conceivably influence him, passes on a good alliance with his niece because it might give him cooties, and manages to miss his pet firepriest pretty much spelling out that he's going to be burned to death as soon as he reaches Meereen.

Sephyr
Aug 28, 2012

HidaO-Win posted:


Look at Ned and Tywin Lannisters legacy long term, who comes out better? Ned raised decent people, Tywin really didn’t.

Since Tywin's castle is not a burned-out ruin, his rival local House has not replaced his lineage as Warden, he was not dumb enough to send his living brothers to a penal colony where they cannot claim land or produce more Lannisters, and his kin are all in key positions of power instead of murdered by upstarts or fleeing for their lives, I'm going to sat Tywin is way ahead on that count.

Long term the Starks are really banking on a series of miracles to even keep from vanishing entirely. Meanwhile the Lannisters, even after a lot of bungling, are still a powerful House, their lands relatively untouched by the war, rich as poo poo and an integral part of calling the shots in Westeros. A lot of contrivance went into that status quo, but there it is.

Sephyr
Aug 28, 2012

HidaO-Win posted:

I’ll lay money at the end of this that the Starks will come out of this better than the Lannister’s just because their support base is more loyal, Tywin used fear and gold to keep people in line and that’s all gone.

Since we’re never getting the books, the show will have to be our guide.

Ehh, even in the books that's a chancy take. The Lannisters basically already crushed any viable opposition in their turf, while Starks have the Boltons, Karstarks and Barrowtown all spitting on them, and the loyal ones have all been ground to paste, except for White Harbor. Not saying they won't go for some Deus ex Machina ("See, the mountain clans and the Reeds are here now!"), but it's going to be weird.

And since two beloved characters from the books are Lannisters, I doubt they'll be hit -that- hard in the never-coming next book. I'll lay -my- money on the story taking it all out on Cersei.

Sephyr
Aug 28, 2012

esperterra posted:

The real sin of them cutting out the Tysha conversation before Tyrion fucks off to kill Tywin

Eh, that change I kinda understand. Tyrion was already at his very lowest rung there, and piling that extra bomb on top, after such a great emotional scene as his trial, would have crossed into melodrama.

I agree it leaves a gap in the future row between the brothers, butas far a tempo and dramstic wright goes, it would have been overkill.

Sephyr
Aug 28, 2012

nine-gear crow posted:

Yeah BSG goes off the rails hard after the second season and skids across the finish line a flaming wreck with Ron Moore standing atop it and screaming “I AM A GENIUS!” as it burns down around him.


I lover this mental image so much I want it rendered in a Reboot-style goofy animation.

That said, I don't think GoT will reach quite -that- level of implosion. LOST was fiddled with from all sides, had all the troubles of a rotating cast, and also no real endgame because nobody expected it to get as big as it did. BSG had its feet cut out from under it and basically got tossed onto the laps of the only loons in the room who said they could finish it in the timeframe they had.

GoT has been a success from chapter one, had a goodly input from the author, and established narrative arcs. Those can all fail in their own ways (and have!), but even all added up don't quite make for the fuckery of those two other series ending.

We'll see, though, won't we?

Sephyr
Aug 28, 2012

A GLISTENING HODOR posted:

Man in the High Castle does an amazing job of depicting the "perfect nazi society" where there's no crime (because every offense results in automatic execution) and no illness (because every sick person is executed) and no complicated social issues (because anyone who has questions in their head is executed) and it is a deeply terrifying world for anyone who is sane and passes for a real human being by having empathy.

Unfortunately, Trump voters aren't functioning human beings and see this and think "this is great, why aren't we killing people who don't love the government, like those liberals that don't did never done read the constitution?"

The only way a High Castle-like production would NOT end up being adopted by chuds as a model of an ideal society would be if the ruling tyrants were black or brown. Show them Comandante Ramirez throwing pasty gamers into mass graves for jaywalking and toking up in his glorious new regime and they'd come out hard for multicultiralism and democracy*.


*: Who are we kidding, they'd just go "See, this is -already- happening in real life! We gotta do it to them before they do it to us!"

Sephyr
Aug 28, 2012

emanresu tnuocca posted:

He wants to advance in the feudal ladder, he wants house Bolton to survive and come out on top and thinks that despite all of his obvious shortcomings ramsay is the best horse to bet on as far as his prospective heirs are concerned.

Except...no, he doesn't.

He pretty much snorts at the idea of Ramsay ruling the North after him, says that all of the Bastard's Boys are his and his son should have been left grinding corn, and yet he basically shrugs at the idea of his loony bastard murdering his upcoming trueborn children in the crib. He's basically setting his own House to be deleted right after he dies, for...no reason.

Basically, it's the whole "Eh, he's crazy and weird. His goals don't need to make sense" thing.

It's especially funny because his stated half-excuse is "Well, I'm REALLY old, like almost 40, so I'm not going to live to raise new kids what with winter and all". In the first book it felt like GRRM really intended to have someone at 40 be old as poo poo, but later he realized that a ton of his characters were 35 or older and they were kicking rear end and loving all over the place, so that bit of medieval world-building was quickly forgotten until it became convenient here and there. As with kinslaying, religion, army sizes and supplies, which don't matter until they do.

But to think that a wealthy lord (and an early health nut, to boot) would see another winter as a sure death sentence is just weird.

Sephyr
Aug 28, 2012

nine-gear crow posted:

Though rumour has it he’s showing up next week as a prisoner of the Golden Company as just another thing for Cersei to taunt Dany with. But we’ll see. r/freefolk is at the point where people are coming out of the woodwork and posting contradictory “leaks” as they work through the denial and bargaining stages of grief over the show’s awful writing.

Oh, please let this be true. It's so gloriously dumb.

They should have Cersei pop up on the walls with, like, ten dragons, too. "Turns out we found these in the Red Keep! They hatch real easy, no sacrifice needed, and for some reason these ones are ballista-proof. Isn't it wild? Oh, by the way, I sent the Golden Company to burn down your precious House with the Red Door across the narrow sea. Then the ironmen took turns pooping on the ashes. And Qyburn developed a way to talk to the dead, contacted Khal Drogo and he said your pussy was trash."

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Sephyr
Aug 28, 2012

chaosapiant posted:

Too far. Just make Cersei have a zombified version of Dany's dragon just like she has Ser Robert Strong! :D

Nah, if you gotta go dumb, go BIG dumb.

Have Cersei give birth to twins and name them Aegon and Nymeria, then throw a baby shower and send Dany an invitation ending with "P.S.- No barren women allowed."

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