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Jeffrey posted:Sorry to open this I think it's something appropriate for talking about in this thread, but yeah--there really isn't hardly any emergent gameplay that comes out of it. I think its permadeath mechanic sort of works, but the level generation feels more random than procedural (Jesus, that's a fuzzy distinction--do people get what I mean by that?) and there aren't really all that many interlocking subsystems to the game to make for unexpected gameplay moments.
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Dec 1, 2013 23:41
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but rogue legacy doesn't feel like a roguelike at all to me, even in a world where Binding of Isaac, Risk of Rain, Spelunky, etc are all unquestionably roguelikes. Does Rogue Legacy have any roguelike elements at all? There's no character progression within a game, no permadeath, and you can even turn off the random level generation. The most roguelike thing about it is the word rogue in the title.
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Jeffrey posted:Yeah, the lack of progession within a character is what really kills it for me. If it had some manner of random powerups ala risk of rain it might redeem the game in my eyes, but as of now I have no desire to play it. I love the desperate hope in one's fleeting, fragile character that roguelikes provide, and RL just falls flat there. I actually really like the idea of a game where every time you die you get a chance to cash in on upgrades using the winnings of your last life, but I agree that the lack of progression within a run wasn't all that engaging. I think the two modes of progress could be combined into something really interesting--especially for a roguelike. poo poo, what games did do a good job of this? Baroque? Wait, why doesn't anybody ever talk about Baroque any more?
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Dec 2, 2013 02:37
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victrix posted:My fundamental gripe with the 'random' dungeons (and I share this same, quite unpopular view about diablo like games) is that 'random' isn't any more inherently interesting than well designed arenas. This gets into my whole deal with exploration. The thing that randomness does in a game's level generation is really just allow for constant exploration--it's different every time, so you're always discovering new content. The thing is, meaningful exploration is actually a pretty active process--it isn't actually based around not knowing what's behind a door as much as it is around trying to predict what'll be there. It's a constant act of imagining what you might find next, preparing for it, and then seeing if your guesses were correct or not. It has to walk a line with this. If it's too random then all anticipation is meaningless and you just mindlessly wander forward and take whatever the game throws at you. That said, if you know that level 6 is the ice level and level 7 is always the lava level there's really not any exploration there, either--there's no guessing, only knowledge. Even trickier, the game should have some way of rewarding you for reacting to your guesses--by being able to say 'this looks like somewhere a secret door should be' you should be able to find helpful stuff that you wouldn't have been able to find if you were just autoexploring. I'm not sure I've played a roguelike that really nailed this for me yet--I feel like there's too much of an emphasis on the map and not enough of one on the map flow and how nearby rooms affect each other. Old-school style D&D dungeon crawls just drip this type of exploration, where finding a spider nest with some mummified goblin corpses stuck in it lets you know that this part of the dungeon is probably going to have goblins in it. I think there's a lot of room for roguelikes to tap into that, even if they'll never be able to quite as organically as a human mind can.
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Dec 3, 2013 05:05
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DalaranJ posted:It is certainly fair to call Pacman a death labyrinth. Someone should make a Pacman roguelike for 7DRL. Is there a random maps mode for the fancy version of PacMan? If not, that really does sound fun.
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Feb 14, 2014 05:23
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Harminoff posted:When I say maze I wasn't really meaning a giant labyrinth like that. Something simpl like this x10 with some paths having locked doors. Mazes can be a little dangerous from a game design perspective--it's real easy for them to add a lot of frustration and complexity to a game without actually upping the number of meaningful choices available to the player. Going down a bunch of dead end passages that you have no way of anticipating is really just game busywork--a mindless/skill-less activity that just bogs down gameplay. Of course, there are a lot of ways to make mazes more interesting. All roguelikes are mazes, pretty much, but they tend to make sure that every part of the map is interesting at least in some small way by making it have (the capacity for) treasure, but also making excessive exploration a drain on valuable resources (the food clock, getting into unneeded fights). You could probably make a roguelike entirely made up of hallways that'd still play more or less like most other roguelikes but would feel like the type of maze you're talking about. If you're going to do something like this, though, it seems like you really ought to be asking yourself at every possible stage "How can I use the maze-ness of this map layout to up the number of meaningful choices the player gets to make?" Exploration is most fun when there's an element of active prediction worked into it--how will you make sure that the player can always have some sort of ability to predict what the most desirable path is going to be and how will you reward them for predicting correctly? I think there's a bunch of cool stuff you could do with this. People already brought up how having the entire game in narrow halls could make for some interesting tactical mechanics, but you could also do a lot with limited resources that make a map more readable--string that can mark the path you've taken even when it's outside your torch-light, or an amulet that glows harder the closer you are to the exit, or a wand that blows down walls all become a lot of fun in a tense maze environment. If you just make it Rogue with a gently caress-you map layout it's going to probably disappoint you, though.
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Feb 14, 2014 08:56
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EAT THE EGGS RICOLA posted:Tentatively doing a game where you have to eat a procedurally generated 15 course meal without exploding or throwing up, carefully balancing your resources (sparkling water, wine, cocktails, bathroom breaks, napkin cleanliness) to make sure that you're just drunk enough to eat that rough 13th course of pig eyes. I actually know a team of people currently working on a roguelike based on The Magic Porridge Pot in which there are no enemies but everything's based around eating your way through the ocean of porridge that surrounds you.
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Feb 14, 2014 17:10
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Potsticker posted:Permadeath and randomized locations would be killer for Dark Souls. Yeah. I think my ultimate game is a procedural permadeath game with Dark Souls/Devil May Cry/whatever-style gameplay (granted, those two games hit almost opposite ends of the style-chart of that control scheme). I can totally understand why it hasn't happened yet, since it really does seem just ridiculously difficult, but I figure it's only a matter of time. It wouldn't have any of the amazing level-design or whatever of Dark Souls, but I'm really hoping that procedural level generation'll be getting better and better as we go on, too.
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Mar 6, 2014 07:14
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Procedurally generated 3D terrain is incredibly hard to make interesting and varied. Traditional roguelikes have it easier because they're simple and abstract, and small changes make a big impact -- a one-tile wide hallway is a vastly different tactical challenge than a two-tile wide hallway, for example. In a 3D space that distinction is much blurrier and it's really easy for everything to end up feeling the same. Tower of Guns seems like it might be an early attempt at this, but from what I've seen of it I'm not sure it has enough randomization to really qualify as a PDL. Also, I kind of got a pretty samey feel from the videos I saw of it. I'll probably check it out eventually anyway, but has anyone else played it enough to say if it does anything interesting with randomization in a 3d environment?
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Mar 6, 2014 10:16
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General Emergency posted:This is probably one of the few LitRPG books I've actually liked. Catacomb Kids, Chasm, and Vagante are all okay. Catacomb Kids has some really cool stuff going on and is way farther down the roguelike path than most rogue platformers. Chasm and Vagante are both a little bland, but aren't bad. Actually, Chasm is pretty non-rogueish, even compared to something like Rogue Legacy. I feel like they tried to sell themselves a bit as such, but it's pretty much just a metroidvania with random room placement.
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Sep 14, 2018 08:32
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goferchan posted:If you're ok with a very abstract definition of roguelike, all 3 Michael Brough games on iOS (868-Hack, Imbroglio, and Cinco Paus) are very very good. Imbroglio is my favorite and will never leave my phone If people are into this style of roguelike (broughlike?) I have a few recommendations. Swap Sword (http://swapsword.com/) is a hybrid roguelike/match-3, where the falling blocks of the match-3 create the roguelike level that you're navigating--on any turn you can either move your character or swap blocks to create a match. Once you collect a certain number of keys it spawns a door you have to walk to before the various enemies overwhelm you. Twinfold (https://store.steampowered.com/app/980880/Twinfold/) just came out (and I think is on both mobile and Steam) and is a roguelike/Threes (or 2048)-like. Whenever you move it moves all the characters on the screen, including the two number creatures who you can either eat for points or combine to double their value. The shifts also can be used to move enemies away from you/smash them into walls/into each other/etc. Enyo (http://www.enyo-game.com/) is more of a Hoplite-like, all focused on chain and shield combat. It's been a minute since I've played it, but it gets real fun with all the different enemy types coming out that you have to juggle the threat zones of while also maneuvering them into puts/onto spikes/etc. Full disclosure: I have friends that worked on all three of these, but they're also all games I've played a bunch of and really enjoyed.
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Dec 30, 2018 22:29
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Einwand posted:Well I got around to trying out Synthetik and spent most of the first run having absolutely no idea what was going on until finding a laser gun that recharged itself so long as I didn't completely empty out its ammo capacity before eventually dieing at the start of what I think was a loop to some robot that exploded on death that I hadn't seen before. Game seems cool but is it just me or does it seem particularly difficult to parse what's going on? Disco floor section of what I think was the final boss was pretty awful. I also tried out Synthetik for the first time today, and this was pretty much my experience--having no clue what was going on but doing okay until suddenly I wasn't. It feels like a game with a lot of mechanics going on. Headshots and active reloads using and sometimes when I right click something happens, but sometimes it doesn't and I have no idea where on the screen to look to find out. It seemed cool, but today was also the day I tried out Heat Signature and hooooo boy did that steal today's thunder. I also tried out RogueTek, and got real bad beat down. Took a one-star mission and it was just 8 heavy tanks kiting me slowly across the map and hitting me from just outside of my vision range and me missing every shot I managed to make and just slow attrition grinding me down. It seems like it might be amazing, but I needed some time to regain my morale after that.
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Jan 7, 2019 09:04
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This is something I'm struggling with a lot in a game I'm working on now. Missing, for the player, feels so bad, but I really like the way that randomness in combat breaks up pacing and can veer any fight in unexpected directions. I think that I might just end up making it so that the players virtually never miss, but NPCs miss against an average-armored player about half the time--the player has agency to do whatever they want on their turn, but what happens between turns is super unpredictable. I think a lot of randomness also depends on what other systems you have plugged into your game. Bad luck can be interesting if it forces you to do something clever or use up limited resources. It's not interesting if it just makes you lose without recourse. cock hero flux posted:You say "what's the difference between that and receiving a randomized set of tools for a not randomized set of challenges, besides presentation?" Well, first of all, the presentation is a lot more important than you're giving it credit for. A lot of people who play games like to use their imagination to fill in the gaps in a game and turn it from a series of cold numbers into a story that they are being told(and also telling themselves). You may not do that, but there are plenty who do, and not everyone is going to have fun discarding all that in order to see the code. And that's a lot harder to do when you find yourself unable to swing a sword because your character didn't draw the sword card from the big deck of cards that apparently dictate every aspect of monster fighting. But okay, that might not be important to you, sure. It's not wrong if it's not. Weirdly enough, this is almost something I consider a strength of card based combat in games--grid based combat where you have access to all your moves all the time feels a little weirdly stilted to me and hard to make a narrative out of, while the messiness of random draws feels a little more ripe for interpretation. A fight where things are chaotic and you only have the opening to do certain things at any given time makes sense to me on a narrative level. Card Quest does a good job with mixing randomly draw actions with a few 'oh poo poo' tools (magic rings, flasks of oil, etc) you can use at any time.
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Jul 17, 2019 18:39
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ToxicFrog posted:It's meant to be double-tap to flag, long press to reveal, swipe to pan grid, but its threshold for what it considers a swipe vs. a long press is really sensitive. I end up panning a lot when I intend to reveal. I believe there are tuning options for this in the settings menu, although I don't know how useful they are. I was pretty excited by the concept of this game, but oh my god is all of this true. Half the fun of minesweeper is the flow of popping a bunch of easy blocks in a row, and this just makes it so painful and fussy the game's just unplayable for me.
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Nov 15, 2019 20:41
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I think there's a pretty big difference between the type of balance we've been mostly talking about (balance between classes/choices you make during character creation) and balance between tactical options (like the pillar-dancing). Letting a player choose their difficulty level at the game's start is cool, but when I see discussions about this type of balancing it's usually more about moment to moment playstyles and whether they're a chore or not. The two types of choices may seem similar in the abstract, but they feel super different in practice! Choosing to handicap yourself at a game's start can feel super good, but part of what makes it feel good is that by setting boundaries for yourself you then give yourself full range to strive as hard as you can to win within those boundaries. Having an option that constantly available to you, powerful, but would make the game less fun sours a game in a way that's very different than choosing a suboptimal class at game's start. There have been studies that have found that if you have two options in a game--one that's fun but suboptimal and one that's strong but less fun, that the vast majority of players will end up choosing the strong but unfun one. You can say that it's just their choice when they do that, but there's something illogical in the way our brains are wired. Good game design should naturally push people towards the fun in the game. The game I've gotten hit the hardest by this recently is actually Qud. You can hit level 2 and get some better gear in the starting village if you spend a few minutes doing quest and shopping stuff. I'm pretty new to the game, so it's pretty common that I go to the first dungeon and just am instantly stoned to death by baboons on the way in. That's fine--the basic flow of roguelikes is that you die a ton and learn a little each death. The fact that I'm spending the first five minutes of each run doing semi-mindless bookkeeping, only to die in minute seven, gets really frustrating (in what otherwise seems like an extremely cool and well designed game). I could choose just to skip it, but since I'm already dying a ton at the game's start it feels like I need all the help I can get.
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Jan 8, 2020 17:54
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Danger - Octopus! posted:Is Ultima Ratio Regnum playable in any way yet? It looks like there's a downloadable version with content, and the guy is updating again... has anyone tried it recently? I'm seconding this question. The concept is so compelling, but I want to know if it's there yet before diving in
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Mar 28, 2020 19:10
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I can be into metaprogression as tutorial--some limited metaprogression at the start that's basically just there to get you familiar with the game. There are definitely ways to do it better or worse Spelunky's is great, because it lets you learn the mid to late game, but doesn't actually limit your ability to do well before you unlock them. StS, Into the Breach, FtL, etc are all nice for letting you avoid being option-overwhelmed, while also giving you that short-term goal of 'unlock everything' to keep your motivation up while the game still hasn't fully clicked for you. I, Dracula seems potentially really good, but they've hosed up this angle a bit. Your start the game with something like 3 mechanics locked (like, there are slots on your HUD that are just big lock icons that each correspond to a key), but I've played three runs so far (with the third getting fairly far) and haven't unlocked a single new mechanic. I think these mechanics work best when it's something like "one new concept added to the game per run" at the start. I also really wish it was easier to skip all this if you're starting on a new platform. Like, even just a toggle hidden deep in the options that gives you access to all content without technically unlocking it. Serephina posted:I think it was Kyzrati who found a beautiful tweet on the internet, where one user was flaming another for not knowing what "roguelike" meant: it's a game where you grind to unlock stuff, duh! ...Which kinda shows how far and wide the word was misapplied, goddamn. Roguelites, indeed. One of my students last semester wanted to write a paper on roguelikes, but when I asked him which ones he played the only one he could name was X-COM. 
OtspIII fucked around with this message at 18:42 on May 25, 2020 |
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May 25, 2020 18:39
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Elephant Parade posted:My verdict: it's not a good game held back by a bad concept, it's a good concept held back by literally everything else. It's a castlevania-like, but you have exactly two basic attacks: an overhead swing that doesn't stop or slow your movement on the ground or impart hitstun or knockback and therefore feels completely weightless, and a Zelda II downthrust with insanely picky timing. This was my problem with the game, specifically how it interact with the enemy design. One of the most common enemy types is 'flying enemy who hovers just out of range of you and spams projectiles', and it felt like 90% of the game was just hopping off platforms to try to get a smack in on a wizard before they float out of range again, then needing to run back up to the platform to get a second hit in. If they add hitstun and get rid of that one enemy type I'll buy the sequel day one. I actually really like the unlock system, even if it does make the game an anti-roguelike. The stakes of death in most RLs can get so high that the stress starts to outweigh the fun at times, and the unlock system is great at taking that edge off (granted, at a serious price).
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Jul 7, 2020 20:17
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victrix posted:Funny you should bring that up... The Cogmind dev literally just finished a series on exactly this topic! Oh drat, I think that's the first video I've seen of anyone playing my submission. That's really cool! And also makes me appreciate just how much having access to an in-person playtester or two would have helped while working on it. I never posted about it in this thread, did I? Check it out here!  It's my attempt to make a real-time roguelike that keeps the strategic pace of a classic turn-based roguelike. You start with two basic abilities (dash and slash), and pick up unidentified rods and potions that gives you extra options. Once you use one fully up it gives you a permanent stat boost, too. 10 levels, 26 monsters (one per letter of the alphabet), and the ability to stop time at will. Let me know what you think!
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Jul 31, 2020 07:33
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No Wave posted:Roguelike metroidvanias almost inevitably become combat-focused because exploring the same or similar environments repeatedly does not lead to much excitement. Platforming sections in games are generally developed in a very careful sequence and are impossible to algorithmically make interesting, it would be like trying tell an interesting story via AI. Randomizers are a totally different beast, they are dynamic routing optimization puzzles where knowledge of the map is effectively required (and part of the skill that is being tested). I don't know--I think the big strength of, like, Spelunky, is that it basically just uses the monsters as mobile platforming obstacles. I agree that static randomized platforming would get old real fast, but randomized static levels mixed with randomized dynamic things that move around/can be jumped off of/etc stays fun for a long long time.
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Aug 18, 2020 05:59
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perc2 posted:I really don't think StS makes any effort at building any kind of fantasy or world. It's completely a Gameplay Game. But maybe the classes feel more distinct and flavourful in StS, I agree. I don't think the developer of VotV should be criticised for "half-assedness", they post a lot of about their design approach, new features and a genuine want to make the game engaging and fun. I think if you want lore and worldbuilding you're looking in the wrong place.... Narrative and worldbuilding pulls double duty in games, by default. It can be good in the ways that all stories are good, but it's also good because it's just a mnemonic for remembering/internalizing mechanics more easily. I don't think StS is very interested in the first way at all, but does use the second better than VotV seems to.
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Dec 24, 2020 21:14
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The Colonel posted:i've been playing baroque. it's very baroque What are you playing it on? I got real excited when I saw it was out for the Switch, but apparently it's a Japan-only release
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Dec 26, 2020 06:04
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I do wish that more games with metaprogression would leave an option to fully unlock everything in menus/as a cheat code/whatever for advanced players/experienced people on new accounts/etc. Learning curve unlocks are definitely something I'm in favor of, though. More controlled initial option pools can be really helpful at giving people learning the game a foothold into visualizing more advanced strategies.
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Jan 19, 2021 00:30
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This thread convinced me to try Gnosia, and it's a pretty weird game that works way better than it feels like it should. I figured I'd do a tiny write-up on it I was pretty confused by initial descriptions of it--some people described it as being a Mafia-like, while others talked about it in more Danganronpa terms (making me think it was more story-based). It's way more the first than the second, although the characters are all pretty charming. In fact, the rules of the game are almost exactly just Mafia/Werewolf--you have a group of people, some impostors, 5 people get to say something and then you vote on who you think an impostor is--that person gets eliminated, you go to bed, and when you wake up you've either won or one more crew member has been murdered. A 'loop' ends when you win, are voted out, murdered by the impostors, or when the impostors make up 50%+ of the crew, and as you progress through loops you unlock new roles players can have, all of which are pretty familiar if you play werewolf-style games. One player can investigate one player per round to see if they're human, another can tell players if the person who just got voted out was human or not, another is secretly trying to get the impostors to win, another 2 are 100% safe, etc. What's interesting about it to me, especially in how it relates to roguelikes, is how it handles loop progression. You earn XP based on how you do, and you can raise various stats with it--stats like changing how persuasive you are, how much suspicion you generate when you speak, or even just how likely people are to join in on the dogpile when you accuse someone of something. This is all happening at the same time as you're unlocking new roles, and even a few new special abilities you can take during play (things like demanding that the Doctor comes forward and reveals themselves). This works a lot better than standard metaprogression, though, since all the other characters are actually just levelling up at the same time, so the dynamic doesn't end up being 'grind to win' at all. Instead, it's more like you being dropped into a game, being given a few rounds to learn the rules, and then being given XP you can use to shape the form of the game. It's less about getting stronger and more about specializing. I like the dynamic--you're re-exploring the same very small and tight strategic space over and over, but it stays fresh way longer than you'd expect due to the constant evolutions occurring. It makes me want to play a roguelike version of PT. Its biggest weakness is also tied to those stats, though--it can be real hard to tell why anything is ever happening. There's a TON going on behind the scenes all the times (each character is constantly gaining or losing trustworthiness, opinion in the eyes of the various other players, danger of being murdered by impostors, etc), and none of it is ever really exposed in any way other than in what dialogue lines the various characters choose to use. That ambiguity is central to making the game work, but can feel pretty frustrating at times. I went through a big losing streak early on, for example, and eventually realized that my big problem was that I hadn't put enough stat points in the "people don't think you're suspicious" stat. This is one of the big draws of this type of game playing against people IRL--so much of the skill of the game comes from getting into other people's heads/reading the subtleties of their behavior, but it can feel a bit cold and meaningless when done against a computer. Overall, though, I'm about 15 loops in and extremely enjoying it. All those weaknesses are just inherent to the type of game it's trying to be, but to be clear it mitigates those weaknesses much better than I was expecting
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Mar 15, 2021 02:04
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Rift Wizard is really interesting, and I keep jumping back and forth on if I like it or not. The magic system is really cool, and I love the monster design, but the core gameplay loop is extremely painful to me. You start each level in a (usually extremely tight-spaced) maze with a bunch of monsters and 3-4 monster spawners that you need to destroy in order to progress. The longer you take to destroy everything, the more monsters the spawners pop out--which is pretty dangerous, given that the game is extremely about attrition; all your spells limited uses, and your spells are the only methods you have for interacting with the world/killing monsters. In practice, this turns into big smooshy meat grinder tunnels, which I find pretty stressful. It feels like you just need to press forward at all costs, and the spawners create so much time pressure that it feels like it strips out a lot of the smaller scale tactical depth. This might just be a personal taste thing, though--I generally have a real bad reaction to this type of dynamic (Gem Wizards Tactics bounced me hard for the same reason) Snooze Cruise posted:Oh hey I been interested in this but outside of the steam reviews I barely see anyone talk about it. How does it play? Erannorth is interesting in how it jumps into one of the big genre zeitgeists going on right now (deckbuilder roguelikes), but goes hard against mainstream design principals (it's incredibly maximalist). I found it really interesting to play just for how it contrasts with similar games like StS; the basic flow is in some ways pretty similar, but the moment to moment gameplay is much, much more fiddly and full of overly complex sub-mechanics. I didn't get super deep into it, but it seemed like it worked fairly well on a strategy level (although not notably better than the simpler deck builders I've played). It also has some pretty painful art choices. The whole aesthetic is, like. . .dead-eyed made-in-Poser fantasy pin-up models?
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May 10, 2021 20:15
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Has anyone tried out the new Wander & Roleplay modes in the CoQ beta branch yet? I just noticed they came out on the 7th, and I'm trying to decide if which of the two I should try out first (or if they're still too rough and if I should give it another patch or two first). Wander mode in particular seems like it could be extremely cool (all the faction opinion-shifting gear and stuff feels like it would be a lot more impactful in a game where all the factions start out default neutral), but it's also such a big shift from the game's default assumptions that it also feels like it might just not 'work' without a bunch of passes on it.
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May 12, 2021 00:27
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Amethyst posted:Wander mode in coq sounds cool but I have no idea how the devs are going to support three separate playmodes when the core roguelike still needs a mountain of work Having just played ~1 hour of it, I think I'll probably stick to Roleplay mode (which actually fits fairly close to how I was playing the game even before these modes). Wander mode seems cool in loosely the same way that noclip cheat codes are cool--great for letting you see parts of the game that were otherwise too hard to reach, but at the same time stripping out a little too much of what makes traversal interesting in the game. That said, the game is pretty hilarious when the monsters aren't united in their hate of you, since it lets them remember how much they hate each other--the entire game seems to just be a giant orgy of violence as bugs fight hyenafolk fight vines fight dogs fight hermits and you just kind of mosey on past them, occasionally taking a damage or two as a missed projectile strikes you.
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May 12, 2021 01:30
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Okay, here's a Rift Wizard question that I can't seem to figure out. Why do my spells sometimes just not work on enemies? I keep having this experience where I cast a spell on a target and they simply take zero damage from it, and I'm not sure why. I've noticed it seems to happen more with enemies with Arcane Resist (when I'm just using, like, Fireball), but I feel like that's just my pattern recognition making something out of nothing. Is there some mechanic like cover that I just haven't realized exists in the game? I thought I was imagining things at first, but it feels like it keeps happening.
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May 24, 2021 04:52
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:There are shields which negate one instance of damage This is almost certainly what was happening, thanks! I think the number one thing I want out of Rift Wizard at this point is a way to filter spells/perks by type. Looking for synergies is pretty brutal, and I'm increasingly realizing is a solid 80% of what separates winning from losing
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May 25, 2021 00:43
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cock hero flux posted:i played rift wizard for the first time this morning and in about 6 tries i was able to beat the game literally just using the level 1 Lightning bolt spell and that one holy spell that heals you because for some reason one of the lightning skills causes random enemies on the map to go berserk whenever you do basically anything. i would just teleport into the safest corner on the map, hit one enemy with lightning bolt and watch as a riot started and all the enemies broke their own spawners and then killed themselves. Oh wow, you weren't joking--I tried this build out and hit 20 for the first time. One thing I didn't realize immediately was that the 'these attacks also do element X and element Y' upgrades are actually damage multipliers instead of just ways to get around resistances. That changes how I look at the basic attacks a lot. Also, learning that I could filter spells and skills has made this game so much easier to read. I can't believe I didn't realize I could do that before
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May 26, 2021 18:51
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Kchama posted:I gave it a go and I agree that it's actually quite great. I'm terrible at it but I'm very interested in gitting gud. I'm finding that the strategy changes a bunch the longer the game gets. On the shorter campaigns, you're mostly scrambling to get enough gold for a decent-sized team and a few upgraded units, but eventually the campaigns get long enough that you're doing that well before the final boss, which opens up the ability for you to do some real weird stuff with your remaining gold. Some things I've found you can do are. . . You can buy and sell units at the Jeweler for the same price, so if you have some inventory space and some gold it's not a bad idea to just buy the whole shop out, refresh, look for combos, and then sell the units you can't find doubles/triplets for If you make a triplet, their skills remain even if you sell them, so the late game becomes a lot of grinding triplets by using the above refresh trick at the jeweler over and over. I just beat Ancient Lab (the one before the level that unlocks the second character) and I think I had, like. . .10+ skills active by the end? Maybe a third of those at second or third tier? Easily 2-3x as many as I'd ever gotten before You end up with a near-unspendable number of crystals for the alchemist, so don't be afraid to just show up there and grind for powerful limited use consumables. It's real useful to get a mana stone or two from there, and some of the limited-use items are real strong. You can also roll up a consumable item, and if you have a full inventory you can use all its charges without even making space for it in your inventory.
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Jun 5, 2021 03:45
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cock hero flux posted:then you put up the Inn and fill out your roster Wait, does the Inn let you go above 3 characters? I thought it was for replacing dead ones, so I never build it
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Jun 17, 2021 17:32
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cock hero flux posted:It's very easy to get ahead of the game's economy if you min-max setting up all your gold and material generation buildings in the first couple of days, leading to you having far more than you need of either by the mid game. I started a run where I did this, and oh my god does it make a huge difference. The first few nights are easy to perfect with just 3 characters, and if you can get 10+ workers and 3 gold mines it's easy to max our your roster quick enough that you're able to stay at 0 panic for the first ~6 nights, which gives you this enormous amount of gold and materials. Between this and going full ballista over walls, it's really a night and day difference between this run and any I've done so far I'm still not sure if I'll win, since I still have a fair bit of stuff not unlocked (no Seer, which seems like it might cause problems), but there's definitely an income curve that you absolutely have to stay in front of if you don't want to death spiral
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Jun 22, 2021 04:50
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VictualSquid posted:I did like the way that hades made the game easier. It was a very direct promise that bad players can finish the game eventually through metaprogression instead of dumb luck like in a more traditional roguelike. I really like how Hades had both a curve where the player power went up over time, but also a curve where the game got harder that was truly central to the game (rather than feeling like bonus content). Having different "wins" for different player types is really smart
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Jun 22, 2021 18:02
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TitusGroen posted:
I tried it and bounced slightly, since the two core things it does don't really mesh for me. It's in the same general design space of a Brough-like or Hopalite, but has a combo meter that goes down in real time and only refills when you damage an enemy. The design seems like it might be interesting (although it feels less tightly designed than the games it's inspired by), but the timer really puts me in a bad headspace.
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Oct 24, 2021 08:37
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juggalo baby coffin posted:are there any roguelite games where you can play as a goblin? it seems like a shocking absence. peglin got me in the mood for goblin action but i cant find any Tenderfoot Tactics isn't a roguelike, but is an indie open world tactics game (very different mechanics, but maybe similar allures?) where you play as all goblins. FuzzySlippers posted:Any examples of a fairly traditional roguelike (turn based, overhead view, combat happens in same exploration map / non-modal) that had large (4+) controllable player parties with independent movement? So summons/pets like Mystery Dungeon style don't count Not exactly what you asked for, but Othercide is probably the best non-XComlike tactics roguelike I've played. It's more missions and less exploration, though, and the attrition system (the only way to heal a unit is to sacrifice another unit of the same level) turns a lot of people off. What you're describing is kind of a white whale of mine--I've been looking for something like that for a long time, and there's a lot of stuff that's really good and like one or two steps away (Horizon's Gate is super good, but open world and not a roguelike), but nothing that quite hits all those notes.
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Oct 28, 2021 05:11
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Grevlek posted:Horizons Gate is the best and only spiritual successor to the Uncharted Waters games, but doesn't really feel like a roguelike. Yeah, I think it's funny that indie open world games and roguelites tend to have a lot of the same fans, because they kind of have completely opposite core conceits? Except, also kind of not, since they both just end up being driven by a series of encounters way more driven by variations on a central set of rules than by bespoke content (as well as both being very much about exploring). 80% of the gameplay in Horizon's Gate is made up of encounters and things with basically all the same set of framing, just with new and interesting monsters to fight against. But that framing works, and the monsters and PCs have really good and interesting mechanics, so it's all real fun
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Oct 29, 2021 06:12
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Harminoff posted:Watched a youtube video of "The Ground Gives Way" so decided to give it a go following the setup he had. With it running from terminal, you sure can make it look nice! Has this been in active development? I remember trying it forever ago and being like "wow, this feels like a paradigm shift in the classic roguelike formula", but I haven't really heard anything of it or anything inheriting from it since then.
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Jan 12, 2022 05:14
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Here's a question for the thread--what was the first roguelike with significant metaprogression? My first instinct was to say Rogue Legacy, since it was definitely the one that popularized the concept, but are there others before it that I'm just not thinking of? Baroque has the ability to send gear back to the start zone, Nethack has bones files, I think some mystery dungeons have some persistence between runs (but I'm not sure if that was true from the start or if it's limited to gear only), but what was the first game to just let you become Stronger Forever the more rounds you played?
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Feb 13, 2022 17:41
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Nethack (1987) has bones files, and Shiren the Wanderer (1995) is the oldest roguelike i'm aware of that's outright built around metaprogression as the intended means to beat the game It's been a bit since I played Shiren--what is the progression in it? I remember keeping a bank of items, and maybe unlocking some new features or something, but I don't remember if there's anything on the line of "you start with +5HP forever" So I guess I should rephrase my question slightly--what's the first rogueli(te/ke) to have permanent stat-based metaprogression? Not just carryovers from previous runs, not just new options or classes, but a flat "you automatically start stronger forever now"?
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Feb 13, 2022 19:28
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girl dick energy posted:Does the dialogue get less wooden and repetitive? The dialogue is a bit of a fake-out, in my opinion. Gnosia gameplay is a social deduction puzzle game much more than it is a visual novel--it's been a while, but I think there might even just be literally one line of dialogue each character has per action they can take. You can replace the dialogue with "SQ used Doubt on Stella" in your mind
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May 22, 2022 21:59
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