D&D NEXT: Infinite Posts of the Abyss

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theironjef: Aug 11, 2009; The archmage of unexpected stinks.

LFK posted:

It's a neat template that can give them some fun and interesting abilities. The basic idea is that the creature gets a certain number of "legendary action points" per round and different actions cost a different amount of points. Like the creature gets 3 and "recharge breath weapon" costs 1 but "murder the PC you hate the most when they attack you" costs 3, so there's a neat little resource management minigame for the DM to play in there. The problem really just is that the Legendary Saves component is so boring.

It also strikes me as metagamey. I already see people talking about using it for the wizard instead of the fighter, but let's be real what DM doesn't know his player's kill tricks? Any attempt to force the monster to waste saves on crap spells is just going to see the DM smirk and ride it out. Like i had a DM that used to have monsters be extremely smart about taking AoOs specifically when my character had a reactive ability that keyed off them.

# ¿ Jul 3, 2014 17:42

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# ¿ Apr 29, 2024 01:38

theironjef: Aug 11, 2009; The archmage of unexpected stinks.

dwarf74 posted:

Repost from that other thread:

This is awesome. For real, no irony.

The grog this thing is going to generate will be thick and creamy. Like the creamiest of thicknesses.

# ¿ Jul 3, 2014 21:24

theironjef: Aug 11, 2009; The archmage of unexpected stinks.

DalaranJ posted:

Here's my houserule. I'm going to cut out these two paragraphs and put them into all my other game books.

"My character in this game of Vampire is a bearded dwarf woman who is sick of being mistaken for a man"

Okay yeah I'm in.

# ¿ Jul 3, 2014 23:44

theironjef: Aug 11, 2009; The archmage of unexpected stinks.

sansuki posted:

Why is this a thing? I don't mind it, I think its neat, but why did they have to take the time and make this a thing in the book?

Some course correction is necessary for a hobby where stuff like "Women receive -2 to strength" and "The female paladin is raped into losing her powers" exist.

# ¿ Jul 4, 2014 00:55

theironjef: Aug 11, 2009; The archmage of unexpected stinks.

I agree that it's bad design. It's not only bad, it's bad without a good reason to justify it. We've seen monster design that just replaces spells with monster abilities before, it's fast, easy, keeps the bloat of the spell block away from an entirely different bloat, and makes it easy for monsters to have custom spells. And the argument for the other side is generally "Well it's not that bad" or "You can always memorize the spells."

It also leads to that unnecessary devotion to sensible monster design I can't stand. An enemy wizard designed to die in a fight only needs to have the few attacks he'll use that fight. Taking the time out to mention he can also cast Light and Heat Metal is wasteful. If you are designing an adventure where a factor of the story revolves around the enemy wizard being able to cast Light, he'll be able to, with no regard to if it's included in the book's spell list. So why bother? Just give him a missile-y thing, and a blasty thing, and a shieldy thing, as needed. The less flavor the better, so that it's easy to quickly reskin him from an ice wizard to a fire sorceror on the go.

# ¿ Jul 16, 2014 00:27

theironjef: Aug 11, 2009; The archmage of unexpected stinks.

MonsterEnvy posted:

Here is the actual table of Contents.

This could be a symbol of 5th edition right here. Nothing new. I guess that's being a little harsh since there are like a billion D&D monsters already. But there's absolutely nothing new there. Was there in any post 1e MM1?

# ¿ Aug 15, 2014 04:57

theironjef: Aug 11, 2009; The archmage of unexpected stinks.

Grim posted:

Really? I know that the 3.5 CO boards came up with some insane poo poo, but I hadn't heard of anything particularly excessive in 4E

There's a build or two that revolve around liberal interpretations of "your range is now line of sight" to do things like teleport opponents into the sun.

# ¿ Aug 17, 2014 08:24

theironjef: Aug 11, 2009; The archmage of unexpected stinks.

Sir Kodiak posted:

This may be true for precedent for earlier editions, but at this point, when it comes to what's reasonable for 5e, D&D-style wizards have penetrated popular culture to the point of being the default. Dumbledore, Willow, Dr. Strange, etc. are depicted as producing a wide variety of magical effects on a regular basis.

Dr. Strange predates D&D by 11 years. :goonsay:

# ¿ Aug 28, 2014 17:08

theironjef: Aug 11, 2009; The archmage of unexpected stinks.

Laphroaig posted:

Oh man it rolled me up a rad necromancer immediately, I can recommend this for the true powergamers of 5E:

FRANK HUMAN WIZARD FROM A SMALL TOWN TAVERN WHO WAS RAISED BY GHOSTS

How was a tavern raised by ghosts?

# ¿ Jan 9, 2015 03:05

theironjef: Aug 11, 2009; The archmage of unexpected stinks.

drat thing is a dangling participle generator!

# ¿ Jan 9, 2015 03:46

theironjef: Aug 11, 2009; The archmage of unexpected stinks.

quote:

* A character manages to get her sword past a hobgoblin's defenses and turn a near miss into a hit, but the hobgoblin twists its shield and disarms her.
* A character narrowly escapes the full brunt of a fireball but ends up prone.
* A character fails to intimidate a kobold prisoner, but the kobold reveals its secrets anyway while shrieking at the top of its lungs, alerting other nearby monsters.
* A character manages to finish an arduous climb to the top of a cliff despite slipping, only to realize that the rope on which his companions dangle below him is close to breaking.

Some of these seem worse than just failing. Notably being disarmed and the monster starts screaming. Like "if your player gets really close to success and you want to soften the blow, steel your resolve and kick them square in the dick instead."

# ¿ Jan 21, 2015 00:44

theironjef: Aug 11, 2009; The archmage of unexpected stinks.

Really Pants posted:

A lot of DMs like to say this.

Zero players have ever said it.

This is primarily true because players that try to express this sentiment normally just express a yard-long streamer of drool instead.

# ¿ Jan 21, 2015 00:48

theironjef: Aug 11, 2009; The archmage of unexpected stinks.

Kai Tave posted:

Also with a few people talking about Natural 20s on skill rolls, remind me, does rolling a Natural 20 on a skill check in Next do anything special? I know in 4E you couldn't actually "crit" on skill checks, only combat rolls, but a whole bunch of people seemed to think that a natural 1/natural 20 meant you automatically failed/succeeded.

It's just one of those things. Like how all dwarves are Scottish. Got into people's DNA somehow.

# ¿ Jan 21, 2015 01:01

theironjef: Aug 11, 2009; The archmage of unexpected stinks.

Boing posted:

I was just reading the PHB spell list and

Natural language

Hey that's important stuff. I don't want my centipedes turning into giant centipedes if they're supposed to turn into megalocentipedes.

# ¿ Jan 22, 2015 01:20

theironjef: Aug 11, 2009; The archmage of unexpected stinks.

Peas and Rice posted:

I'm trying to think of good examples of Lawful Evil characters from fantasy literature as an inspiration for a D&D character - the best I can come up with is Lord Vetinari from the Discworld series. Any other decent ones?

Claude Frollo for sure. Does The Hunchback of Notre Dame count as fantasy literature? I'm just gonna guess it does.

# ¿ Jan 22, 2015 20:37

theironjef: Aug 11, 2009; The archmage of unexpected stinks.

Ooh, Lawful [Some Word] has hit the thread. Someone start an argument about what alignment Batman is, I have a bingo card to fill out.

theironjef fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Jan 22, 2015

# ¿ Jan 22, 2015 21:27

theironjef: Aug 11, 2009; The archmage of unexpected stinks.

thespaceinvader posted:

Probably, but there's no reason whatsoever why 'skeleton army' necessarily equals evil. That's a product of this world's values about death and dying, not the values of a world that evolved in a situation where a sufficiently learned men can make zombies clean the sewers and skeletons fight in the army so that people don't have to.

Seriously, just think about a world that has a mandatory draft, but it's after you die. Your bones serve the sorceror king for a period not less than three years after your demise, and are then interred in a place of honor. People who join the army voluntarily can choose to serve while yet living or volunteer for more advanced necromantic processes (like being a mummy or something), either of which provides greater recompense to your living family.

Good guy skeleton army of egalitarian societal justice.

# ¿ Feb 2, 2015 17:45

theironjef: Aug 11, 2009; The archmage of unexpected stinks.

Lamquin posted:

My question is: How to I give him feedback on his stealthroll?

Do I tell him that he beat the passive perception of all the monsters in the room and now gains advantage on his rolls (No one noticed you appearing from behind the overturned table), do I say it as he approaches a monster (the Bugbear changes his stance to be ready for a blow from behind), or do I just keep it a "secret" until he actually strikes the monster (No, you don't get to roll your advantage die because the bugbear noticed you)?

Nothing else in the fight is a secret, why would this be? Archers shouldn't know the distance in feet between them and their target and fighters shouldn't know how many attack of opportunity they made recently. Don't latch on to one weird little game interaction for the sake of realism, rogues got it bad enough.

# ¿ Feb 2, 2015 19:15

theironjef: Aug 11, 2009; The archmage of unexpected stinks.

mastershakeman posted:

So are you ok with the rogue knowing he isn't hidden in non combat situations too? That dramatically changes how the character would be played.

Yeah, of course.

# ¿ Feb 2, 2015 22:17

theironjef: Aug 11, 2009; The archmage of unexpected stinks.

mastershakeman posted:

Then for any non-time sensitive stealthing, why even have it be a skill to roll against? You can just reroll until you pass the stealth check then do whatever it is you're doing. Easier to just say 'ok I'm sneaking around' and your declaration makes it true.

I guess there's enough time sensitive things that this isn't a big deal but I'm pretty surprised by that.

Because stealth is a skill. And taking 20 is a thing.

# ¿ Feb 3, 2015 01:05

theironjef: Aug 11, 2009; The archmage of unexpected stinks.

ActusRhesus posted:

hasn't that always been the role of the DM though? Otherwise why have one?

If that's the way you DM or your DM functions, then you don't need us here in this thread. You have evolved beyond us, Amazo. Go forth into the stars and lie to NPCs as yet unimagined.

# ¿ Feb 3, 2015 17:13

theironjef: Aug 11, 2009; The archmage of unexpected stinks.

Grimpond posted:

I can't put my finger on exactly why, but I feel like this could have been worded better? Maybe a more technical breakdown on how the illusion interacts with the world as well.

Physical inspection implies touching the target with something, but the actual check to determine if they determine there's an illusion is just to make an investigation check with no stipulation about touching, which leads DMs to do both, by having guards constantly passive checking people for disguise self spells but also by filling the environment with detritus like a katamari game so you can't move around.

It could have just been "You cast a spell that makes you look like someone else. They can even be a little bigger than you. +whatever to your whatever roll to convince people you're someone else" but it wouldn't be real D&D if it wasn't filled with silly contrivances for DMs to hook onto.

# ¿ Feb 3, 2015 18:25

theironjef: Aug 11, 2009; The archmage of unexpected stinks.

ActusRhesus posted:

How is "the palace guards use scrolls of detect magic because everyone and there mother in this world is a magic user" rewriting the rules?

I'm gonna go ahead and say because "the palace guards use scrolls of detect magic because everyone and there mother in this world is a magic user" isn't in the books anywhere. I wouldn't put it past the 5e team to use the wrong "their" though.

Note that there is a viable difference between rewriting the rules and adding new rules of your own. If your world is all magic paranoia, that's fine, logical, and interesting. It isn't the default D&D setting though. You can tell because the text for Disguise Self doesn't say "This spell rarely works on palace guards, who are constantly chain-huffing from a big garbage bag of Detect Magic scrolls."

theironjef fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Feb 3, 2015

# ¿ Feb 3, 2015 18:28

theironjef: Aug 11, 2009; The archmage of unexpected stinks.

moths posted:

It also implies that if the caster is standing behind a window or in a phone booth where "physical inspection" is impossible, the spell will always fool everyone.

Until something flies right through his king hat, anyway. Probably like a low-flying indoor falcon or something. A good DM always includes slow, low-flying indoor falcons so that the spells don't get overpowered. I think it's in the DMG.

# ¿ Feb 3, 2015 18:31

theironjef: Aug 11, 2009; The archmage of unexpected stinks.

goatface posted:

No, the last paragraph says that a creature can use its action to inspect you and make an Int (investigation) check to see through it. They don't have to touch you, just notice that something about you is off. Touching just makes that easier.

Probably.

It says two things. One is that the spell doesn't hold up to physical inspection, the other is that creatures can detect it with an Investigation check. The one follows the other, leading the reader to believe that the check must be a physical check made by the creature, or based on evidence the creature sees, like a hat-falcon interaction. There is no actual grammatical reason for that to be the case though. Nothing stops a creature from using every action it has to determine that things near it are actually what they appear to be. That's the plot of "They Live".

# ¿ Feb 3, 2015 18:40

theironjef: Aug 11, 2009; The archmage of unexpected stinks.

ActusRhesus posted:

autocorrect does not merge with grammar check. sue me.

but way to focus on one incorrect word rather than the point. Which is it is not "changing the rules" to give your NPCs tools that are explicitly allowed for in the rules.

And the guards just took a level of caster. Why not? Everyone else has to.

Here, I'll quote myself for you. That way you can see past the one part where I was insulting you to the answer you were asking about :

Note that there is a viable difference between rewriting the rules and adding new rules of your own. If your world is all magic paranoia, that's fine, logical, and interesting. It isn't the default D&D setting though. You can tell because the text for Disguise Self doesn't say "This spell rarely works on palace guards, who are constantly chain-huffing from a big garbage bag of Detect Magic scrolls."

So the answer you want is "It's not changing the rules. It's adding new rules not found in the original book." Effectively, if you find yourself starting a sentence, especially an argument sentence with anything from a list of:

1. In our games
2. A smart DM will
3. The way I do it
4. Logically, that means
5. And the guards just

You're talking about added rules. I think there's room in this forum for houserule discussion. Lord knows the information in the books is mighty thin on the ground. But it's best phrased as requests for houserules or discussions of houserules, because this isn't a Rabbinical council and arguing over correct literal interpretation of the sacred 5e texts is pointless. Your very original question is probably best answered by a houserule, since the books won't provide what you want, regardless of how hard you shake them.

# ¿ Feb 3, 2015 18:56

theironjef: Aug 11, 2009; The archmage of unexpected stinks.

ocrumsprug posted:

The best thing to come from the last three pages is the idea of a society so paranoid of magical disguise, that they have created an elaborate greeting ritual whereby you knock the other persons hat off in welcoming.

"Welcome to the castle...", *knocks fedora to the ground*, "Sir Whiteby."

Oh man with a whole new subclass of serfs, the "hat retrieval peasant." And haberdashers advertising of how their wares are especially resistant to "the wear and tear of being constantly dashed to the ground by zealous garden party guards."

Also every chamber in the palace is just wall to wall chandeliers terminating about six and a half feet off the ground.

# ¿ Feb 3, 2015 19:01

theironjef: Aug 11, 2009; The archmage of unexpected stinks.

It's very analogous to the modern day. The government imposes a sales tax/hat knocking ordinance intending to catch criminals, but it only bothers the lower classes. Meanwhile, rich people/actual wizards are just creating offshore accounts/casting Invisibility to skip the whole rigamarole, and the little people are kept in their place. Wake up sheeple/serfles.

# ¿ Feb 3, 2015 19:07

theironjef: Aug 11, 2009; The archmage of unexpected stinks.

Toph Bei Fong posted:

I could even see this evolving in such a fashion that the guards are only checking for magical disguises, because it's such a ludicrous idea that someone would just rouge their face and put on a real hat with false papers in it to break into the castle.

Wow, like a magic version of Gattaca. That'd be awesome. "It's impossible for there to be a rogue in this room, it's way up a wall! Only wizards can fly!"

# ¿ Feb 3, 2015 20:37

theironjef: Aug 11, 2009; The archmage of unexpected stinks.

ActusRhesus posted:

Why are you so angry about this?

Also, I was looking for a little more than "write rogue on character sheet. Pick assassin." Skill expertise? Feat Selection? Benefits to one race vs. another? I get it, this game isn't as micro-managey as 3.5 was. But I was looking for some practical advice from people who have actually played the class, not "hey the rule book says assassin gets to use disguises so pick that." I can read.

You can't just make a rogue by announcing it's time and slamming repetitive numbers on a sheet, you gotta finesses that concept first. Maybe get it a few drinks. Also whoa. Not there. What are you even doing? Is... is that the rules? Get those out of there, it's not even CLOSE to your birthday.

# ¿ Feb 3, 2015 21:21

theironjef: Aug 11, 2009; The archmage of unexpected stinks.

goatface posted:

Romans (supposedly) did a yard and a bit per man per day, lets round that to a yard. Building a mile thus costs 1760 man-days. A skilled labourer, which you are obviously using if you're building that fast, costs 2 gp a day. So 3520 gp per mile in wages. Add in costs for material and your profit on the top, you could probably argue it as 7-10 kgp/mile.

Or you could cast Build Road and obviate all these skilled laborer shenanigans.

Wait how much to just have a bunch of skeletons lay down and serve as a road that can also get up to be an army later.

# ¿ Feb 3, 2015 22:30

theironjef: Aug 11, 2009; The archmage of unexpected stinks.

goatface posted:

Dear Legal Advice,

If you animate a skeleton, and it turns out that skeleton was from a murdered dude, does that count as receiving stolen goods? I'm already on my second strike for theft.

Yours in g-d,

The Dark Lord Jeff

The lawyer said you're probably cool, but his barrister wig did clip right through his briefcase, so move forward accordingly.

# ¿ Feb 3, 2015 22:47

theironjef: Aug 11, 2009; The archmage of unexpected stinks.

Laphroaig posted:

Oh man that reminds me of some excellent Adventure Advice this guy had for running a D&D Next campaign:

These grog rants are always so interesting, and they always seem to carefully ignore the fact that the real medieval world they are so happy to build around lacked giant monster-filled dungeons full of ludicrous amounts of actual gold and magical items, scattered fairly liberally all over the world, with a culture of weirdos that dive recklessly into these deathpits to occasionally emerge with sacks full of gains. That would have a hilariously huge effect on the local economy.

This whole thing reads like an alternate history of Green Bay where it's still a tiny meatpacking town full of dumbfounded union guys that are to a man amazed by these weird "football fans" that seem to invade their town with tales of the nearby stadium.

# ¿ Feb 4, 2015 00:08

theironjef: Aug 11, 2009; The archmage of unexpected stinks.

Oh man, remember Opening Shove? I miss Warlords so much.

# ¿ Feb 5, 2015 03:58

theironjef: Aug 11, 2009; The archmage of unexpected stinks.

Laphroaig posted:

code:

This spell creates an undead servant. Choose a pile
of bones or a corpse of a Medium or Small humanoid
within range. Your spell imbues the target with a foul
mimicry of life, raising it as an undead creature. The
target becomes a skeleton if you chose bones or a
zombie if you chose a corpse (the DM has the creature�s
game statistics).

According to my interpretation, this spell can also instantly turn gnomes, halflings, and dead fortunetellers into a skeleton with no save.

# ¿ Feb 5, 2015 19:07

theironjef: Aug 11, 2009; The archmage of unexpected stinks.

homullus posted:

I know it would be really fun if this were true, but prepositional phrases can in fact modify the entire preceding clause, even when they're at the end.

At the very least the choice between zombie and skeleton doesn't have to have anything to do with your raw materials. You can target bones, say "I choose zombie" and get a zombie, because it just says "If you chose" and not "If your target is".

This is good because the meme is skeletons, not zombies, and who wants to spend a bunch of time flesh-stripping corpses on your way to skeleton superiority.

# ¿ Feb 5, 2015 19:32

theironjef: Aug 11, 2009; The archmage of unexpected stinks.

Kitchner posted:

So in my session tonight I plan on running a scam to fleece peasants out of some cash by using a bag of lizard penises I harvested off some lizard men that we killed.

Apparently according to some people on these forums, this is a lack of poor judgement on my DM's part. Personally I look forward to making a handful of gold coins.

Oh man I can't believe you took this poo poo out on the road from thread to thread! Can you post tour dates for your attempts to get goons to agreeably banter about lizard dongs because I'm gonna hawk t-shirts about it until the venue kicks me out.

I once quit a new D&D game I joined through a signboard posting at the local nerd store after fifteen minutes even though I had to drive for like a half hour to get to the dude's house. I did this because the first NPC he had the party meet was "A huge orc that's a giant baby, like with a diaper, but he's gay and his dick pops up if any male PCs talk to him." I took this as an object lesson that in addition to not wanting to play with homophobic shitheads, I also was 28 got-damned years old and didn't need to talk about hilarious green dicks with strangers.

So basically, even if your amazing campaign happened upon a bunch of dicks organically and in service to the story, it just reminds everyone else that dicks are often stuffed unwanted into games, even though the game is resisting and doesn't want dicks. Over and over again.

# ¿ Feb 17, 2015 17:49

theironjef: Aug 11, 2009; The archmage of unexpected stinks.

Kitchner posted:

But multiple posters have actually said that it is basically a big negative circle jerk in the thread, which most people are guessing why an it was felt an entirely new thread was needed for people who just want answers to their questions without telling them to play other game systems, to only play casters, or how great other editions of the game were.

This thread is wildly off course and will flood the nearby town with negativity! I, a humble poster, shall divert it to a safe channel by damming it up with surplus lizard dicks!

# ¿ Feb 17, 2015 19:24

theironjef: Aug 11, 2009; The archmage of unexpected stinks.

isndl posted:

Surplus? Did the kingdom purchase too many dicks from the lizard dick factory and is now selling them for coppers? Why'd they put out an order for lizard dicks in the first place?

No no, it's at the manufacturer level. He went out and harvested lizard dicks because dicks are an assumed cash crop. Then no one wants to buy lizard dicks so he's stuck with a bunch of them. And it's not like the government is issuing dick farm bills to subsidize the proud American dick harvester, so he's left out in the cold, destitute! Peddling lizard dicks door to door in a crude garment made of a barrel and leather straps, lizard dicks falling out of his samples briefcase as he stutters out a tremulous sales pitch.

# ¿ Feb 17, 2015 19:46

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# ¿ Apr 29, 2024 01:38

theironjef: Aug 11, 2009; The archmage of unexpected stinks.

Kai Tave posted:

See, this is why people prefer skeletons.

Skeletons sell themselves! It's gold, Jerry! Gold!

PublicOpinion posted:

Adventurers delved the dungeon of the Bad Dragon and the loot was just a cornucopia of miscellaneous dongs. Gotta unload them somehow.

Sorry, that dong has the imprimatur of a different dildographer and I can only trade it for sheep or bread from the local baker, but you can always risk taking it to the local black market, where shadowy figures sell shadowy wangs and you may get dicked in the butt as like as dealt with fairly.

# ¿ Feb 17, 2015 19:54

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