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I'm surprised at people saying the previous doomsaying didn't bear out because it largely did, as far as I can tell: the class battle arc did end up feeling weirdly irrelevant to everything since, the vestige stuff did end up being a not-very-compelling way to hand Deku a bunch of new powers he then mastered offscreen, Eri improved her powers offscreen to heal Mirio, etc. The edgy 90s Deku arc lasted about five minutes and pretty much jumped to the payoff immediately. The manga's not off the rails or anything, it's still fine, but the series has run into pretty predictable late shonen problems in the ways a lot of people suggested were likely. Valentin fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Oct 15, 2021 |
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Oct 15, 2021 23:21
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what's that you say? horikoshi introduced a new female character whose role is to deliver plot, lose fights, and make him horny? drat. and after his long record of fully-realized women.
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Nov 5, 2021 19:12
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MHA's world and character concepts have always been more interesting than its plot, and imo the quiet and/or small character moments are often much more compelling than the fights (which, after a certain point, inevitably degraded into "can he punch...even harder?"). a manga entirely of room comparisons and school festivals would probably have been much more fun to follow, whereas now MHA has entered the realm of Shonen Ending Nonsense where we have to drag out the final fight by months just to arrive at the same setup everyone's been predicting since the beginning. there is still a way for horikoshi and SJ to salvage the good elements and jettison the lame: give us Sugarman's Springtime of Youth
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Dec 22, 2021 21:54
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I find AFO/Shiggy's apparently infinite powers incredibly boring but this has been a noticeable problem for MHA at least back to overhaul and probably earlier. when the guy whose power was "perfect control on the molecular level of all matter he touches" decided his big move was to make himself into a kaiju that felt like a sign.
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Mar 5, 2022 02:40
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honestly I feel like bakugo is generally one of the losers/characters most negatively affected by the shift away from the focus on hero school. "How do you reconcile yourself to working with your awful childhood bully?" and "can you be a hero if you lack basic compassion and respect for others?" are (mildly) interesting questions in the hero academy context, but lose a lot of their weight when the story's main thrust is about fighting a megalomaniacal superpower absorbing monster. It doesn't help that his whole deal is basically completely orthogonal to the villains' issues, especially since the question of whether he'd ever work with them is pretty quickly and easily dispensed with, and somehow the issue of whether the exploding guy has a quirk that can actually safely exist in society doesn't ever really come up, as far as I can recall. You'd think there'd be some thematic parallels to explore between Bakugo's desire to blow things up and Toga's desire for blood, and how society handles these two different destructive urges completely differently because one is readily turned to enforcing the law, but ehhhh.
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Apr 6, 2022 03:54
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Waffleman_ posted:God remember when that happened and everyone was mortified for like two months at the possibility of Bakugo becoming Sasuke say what you will about Naruto and Sasuke, but that relationship at least has a pretty sensible thematic resonance for the overall series (Naruto's refusal to turn on his teammate despite the weight of both their personal history and broader cycles of violence in the ninja world is basically the crux of the whole thing). meanwhile bakugo says sorry in an arc basically written for "bakugo says sorry" and things move on almost immediately because the conflict between him and deku ceased to be thematically relevant for anyone but bakugo a couple hundred chapters ago. like drat bakugo isn't even deku's real "important rival who has to be redeemed", that's shigaraki. rough.
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Apr 6, 2022 04:06
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I mean, that hot (and cold) minute is still going, and has been pretty much since...Endeavor versus the Nomu? Bakugo doesn't actually have any kind of plot going aside from learning to be less of a dick, Todoroki has a whole cast of supporting characters and a conflict that's clearly going to have an important role in the climax. And yeah, Bakugo's ability to be a functioning character is pretty much completely undermined by Deku never engaging with him. Half the cast never shuts up about Sasuke and people repeatedly make decisions that affect the ongoing plot because of his singular emotional importance to them, and the emotional believability of his relationship with Naruto is helped considerably by the fact that they kick each other's asses up and down the valley of the end before the time skip. Meanwhile, Deku (and all the other kids, to boot) no-sells everything Bakugo does, so none of their conflict has any stakes, and no one except bakugo himself is actually interested in it. Compare the hideout raid arc to the rescue Sasuke arc: in Naruto, the younger generation strikes out on their own, nearly get themselves killed, and ultimately fail to save Sasuke. The MHA kids have their rescue immediately undermined by first the pro heroes and then by All Might/OFA, and the emotional focus shifts almost immediately from anything to do with Bakugo to all the end of the symbol of peace stuff. Plus, the villains are crushed and completely buried as a threat, necessitating several arcs to rebuild their credibility. ...I think MHA is retroactively making me like Naruto more?
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Apr 6, 2022 04:26
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despite doing little to nothing the entire comic, compress remains the most entertaining villain because he had both panache and dignity, which no other villain has had except gentle criminal
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Apr 12, 2022 05:04
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Onmi posted:It's in fact one of MHA's strengths that none of the villains are "I was tricked into villainy and it's all because society doesn't understand me." Even in a case like Gentle, he willingly chose that if he could not receive recognition as a hero, it would be as a villain. That's not to say villains weren't misunderstood by society, but that misunderstanding is not the primary cause of their villainy. In short, the villains have agency in their decisions. I dunno it's a very nuanced position because the elements of society as a reason are there but the ultimate act upon those actions are always the characters themselves, I'd say the manga doesn't try to "Justify" their actions so you can't go and nod and say "Ah see, and that's why all the murders are acceptable." I would've agreed with this at one point but I feel like it's increasingly clear Hori has no interesting place left to take it except "well, I guess we probably shouldn't traumatize and abandon children." At one point the disparate backgrounds of the league characters felt like it implied something meaningful about their possible resolutions but that died with Twice, I think.
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May 1, 2022 20:43
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oh....huh. kinda thought the pacing of that would be different. and definitely wasn't expecting two entirely new villains out of nowhere, lmao. Makes me think that we haven't seen the last of Dabi, given the glowing light in his chest, and if that's not the case then frankly I really do not get what this manga is going for at this point. e: or rather, I guess I do get what it's going for, but that seems like a lot of narrative momentum to burn off (ha) so soon. Dabi is easily the most interesting villain left and shuffling him offstage in exchange for random filler chumps for Kirishima and Mina and Yuga and Fatgum(??) to fight is deflating. Valentin fucked around with this message at 07:49 on May 20, 2022 |
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May 20, 2022 07:36
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MonsterEnvy posted:The Villain Kirishima and Mina will be fighting is not new. He's one of the Liberation Army Commanders that served under Dabi, and is the one who killed Midnight. ah, yes, this is correct, I forgot about his prior one-line appearance. Which I guess means instead that our filler fights will feature one unknown villain, one barely-onscreen villain, and Gastly, another ominous superjail escapee name that hasn't connected to anything but will presumably be the final battle for uhhhhh someone get me the dartboard. tape guy and tail guy and sugar guy Honestly odds are at least one will be a cool fight, assuming I can visually parse it. I'm just annoyed by the sudden swap away from the only fight with any narrative momentum.
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May 20, 2022 19:09
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Oxxidation posted:there's still one left as far as i'm concerned. heartbroken by what's happened to spinner. my boy bit the poisoned apple Both very interested to see what happens there and ready to be disappointed. horikoshi really could have just dropped weird-looking-quirk-based minority discrimination once it was clear there wasn't going to be time or space to explore it. as is, hard to see any other outcome but Shoji's going to win and the moral will be "bigotry is bad I guess but you probably shouldn't do a terrorism about it, go to hero school instead". e: VVV i think it's not uncommon but horikoshi's tendency to make the division textually part of some overarching and apparently exquisitely-tailored plan is his own thing. i'd say usually it's just the heroes and the bad guys have roughly the same number of action figures and they more gradually pair off for fights in ways that are in-fiction unplanned, closer to the shie hassaikai break-in if I recall that correctly. Valentin fucked around with this message at 19:26 on May 20, 2022 |
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May 20, 2022 19:17
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not very interested in the outcome here because likely it's going to somehow relate to Deku's quirk ghosts, given the last page, and I just don't think that's ever been an interesting element, but I'm definitely a grump and curmudgeon, so.
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Jun 25, 2022 21:14
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cool kids inc. posted:Bakugo's costume is a good bit different with the gauntlets lookin like #2's. still wondering when/how this will be addressed, since based on this detail the visual similarity between the two does seem like something that remains relevant, though I have a hard time imagining what you could do with it at this late hour beyond surprise a distant bakugo relative was the second OFA.
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Jun 26, 2022 02:21
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"why don't they just use guns" isn't really a broad critique here so much as a specific question regarding the insanely specific setup horikoshi created for the whole shigaraki fight, and it wouldn't even really be a question if 1) anything, like anything at all, was clear to the reader about the current state of society or how it operates and 2) the story hadn't literally already introduced the prospect of using military hardware against shigaraki earlier and concluded that it wasn't viable because of his regeneration quirk, which makes the logical step to "if he has no quirk* what about more gun" pretty easy. *lmao the cleanest answer imo is that horikoshi is just trying to get to the end, doesn't really care about how hero society works except in the broadest strokes, and has never really been super interested in questions like "is there a military". the fight setup raises a lot of questions about how they're executing it because it literally isn't meant to do anything except delay tomura with recognizable second stringers on the way to the big finale, and consequently doesn't look anything like a plan to actually stop shigaraki. neither the question or the answer have anything to do with "would this story be better with guns (which it already has)". Valentin fucked around with this message at 23:19 on Jul 6, 2022 |
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Jul 6, 2022 23:15
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there are even literally superheroes with guns in this superhero comic. in fact this whole conversation started because a character put a thing on to turn his superpower INTO gun.
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Jul 6, 2022 23:28
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ImpAtom posted:I'm already at my wits end with people wanting to talk about how great guns are without having to hear someone demand why this particular shonen anime wasn't resolved with the teenage schoolgoing protagonists grabbing a gun and murdering The Bad Person or else it's a writing flaw. Kanos posted:Once again I need to emphasize that I'm not wishing for the story to be resolved by hails of gunfire against the bad guys
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Jul 8, 2022 01:22
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Nessus posted:And unlike gun poo poo, which could plausibly be something Horikoshi just isn't thinking much about due to Japan being much lighter on culturally-important gunplay than America, that's something that's been officially brought up in the storyline. as a reminder this conversation started because a character showed off his latest powerup: strapping a bunch of machine guns to himself, complete with belt-fed ammunition
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Jul 8, 2022 03:51
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Electric Phantasm posted:Who's gonna be the Might Guy equivalent here? Mirko? she already kinda did a might guy when she kicked her leg off against AFO the first time. Horikoshi is just even more averse to permanently injuring characters (and Mirko is very clearly one of his favorites too) than Kishimoto was, so even if she replicated it here idk that it would feel interesting or meaningful unless she straight up dies, which would be its own lame decision in other ways imo. e: the other thing is that opening the seven gates paid off a setup from very early in the story when the gates were introduced, AND served as a capstone to the story's recurring interest in whether or not rock lee and might guy could stand on the level of their peers despite their shortcomings, and unfortunately there's no equivalent to that in MHA. Which is striking, because as I'm writing it out it's very obvious that the parallel should be deku going 100%, this originally being in some ways a "what if rock lee was the protagonist" manga, but we've fully exhausted that particular well. Valentin fucked around with this message at 17:24 on Jul 15, 2022 |
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Jul 15, 2022 17:17
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SKULL.GIF posted:I can think of like 3 permanent injuries in all of Naruto. Endeavor, Mirko, Hawks, Eraser all lost various limbs/parts. A lot of the 1A kids are carrying scars. All Might is a fraction of his regular self. yeah i think i'm probably wrong by the numbers on this point and i'm really more complaining about a vibe (which is stupid don't get me wrong). horikoshi's work is much more regularly gruesome while also having much less weight to the injuries and deaths, for me; deku is the obvious reference point here but I do think it also matters that e.g. the series doesn't really care at all about Mirko's permanent injuries, because her missing limbs can be replaced with adequate protheses for fight scene purposes and she doesn't really exist as a character beyond her ability to be in fight scenes. if you compare directly my hero academia almost certainly has more lasting consequences on paper, I'm just judging it unfairly harshly because it repeatedly raises the specter of permanent harm without actually really doing anything with it beyond updating a character design. if mirko and hawks hadn't been hurt at any point (or mirio hadn't lost his powers, etc.) very little of the content of the manga would have changed. also i think invariably a lot of the complaints I'm making are also fundamentally rooted in scope/scale. if you compare key beats in MHA to other long-running shonen I think it has a tendency to fail to follow up on theoretically important threads (e.g. Mirio's entire thing), but that's also a product of being like 350 chapters shorter than Naruto et al at this point, to say nothing of one piece, despite (in my view) having aspirations to be like those series in terms of size of cast, scope and arc of the story, etc. like, to draw on a character death example, is midnight's death underwritten compared to say, asuma's, even though both are theoretically comparably important mentors for what are ultimately mostly side characters in our protagonist's class? and does that comparative lack of writing and development contribute to the vibe of "weightlessness" i'm complaining about? yes to both, imo, but also the vs. hidan & kakuzu arc is 31 chapters long, making it longer than literally any MHA arc but the war and the shie hassaikai stuff. there's just only so much the manga can do in that space. e: lmao if you combined: the sports festival arc (24 chapters); the forest camp training arc (14 chapters); the school festival arc (15 chapters) and the joint training arc (24 chapters), which I think forms a sort of greatest hits for Deku's development with his class through roughly the middle of the series, it comes out to 77 chapters. the chunin exams alone are 81 chapters long. given that there have been allusions to possible arcs at one point for shoji and mina (i think?), among others, I really wonder what Horikoshi's plans were for overall series length at various points. also the further we get from it the more the joint training arc feels like a major misjudgement and a colossal waste of time and energy. Valentin fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Jul 15, 2022 |
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Jul 15, 2022 20:41
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Eggplant Squire posted:Apologizes to Spinner for forgetting about him I hope lol no per spoilers it's specifically about pre-league tenko shimura's friends and dog. spinner less important than shigaraki's dead dog, RIP.
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Jul 27, 2022 17:36
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apropos of nothing: the whole hand thing with shigaraki really doesn't go anywhere, huh. like obviously there's something going on there with touch since he can't touch things without destroying them, but then it turns out the explanation is just "oh yeah AFO put his family's hands on him to continually retraumatize him." the idea of "reaching a hand out" to someone comes up a lot as a visual for saving people, but Shigaraki never really interacts with that beyond the obvious Rogue thing. now he's reaching peak evil power and has nothing BUT hands, but like, the infinite akira hands (that can actually touch things!) don't actually fulfill anything thematically or pay anything off. it's just More Hands. just seems like a lot of wasted effort for something that never really got more interesting than "you have to reach out a hand to save someone, but shigaraki can't grab a hand without destroying it. makes u think huh?" just thinking about this because fingers and hands come up a ton in elden ring but in ways that feel much more compelling. stuff like the two fingers and three fingers forming a complete hand, or arm grafting as a direct extension of tree grafting, which is itself a reference to the ways the golden order takes foreign elements into itself or unnaturally extends its own lifespan. the game uses hands to visualize and rework and expand upon its themes. meanwhile after 360 chapters horikoshi still hasn't gotten very far past "boy, hands, huh?" Valentin fucked around with this message at 08:47 on Jul 28, 2022 |
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Jul 28, 2022 08:37
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very curious where this goes now. in terms of outcome, if tamaki does meaningful damage to shigaraki, bakugo looks like a chump. if he doesn't, the big 3's big moment comes to nothing. not that everything comes down to who wins and who loses, but horikoshi has given us no other stakes to hold on to; every character's goal at this point is just "stay in the fight and beat the other guy" now that the dabi stuff is all over but the crying/awakening/suicide explosion or whatever. it's like licenseless rider versus the deep sea king without any pathos or drama. thinking this probably doesn't do much and bakugo ends up doing more after he Awakens, though. in general I think this arc will read much better in one go, but man has it been pretty eh week to week. also making tenko shimura a separate personality and identity entirely from shigaraki very easily lends itself to the most boring version of saving shigaraki possible, so not loving that! though if we actually get a "eri's powers revert shigaraki to child form so he can have a second chance at a better life" ending, as I have seen occasionally floated, that's so stupid it wraps back around to hilarious. Valentin fucked around with this message at 11:33 on Jul 29, 2022 |
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Jul 29, 2022 11:21
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just real quick: tenko shimura, tomura shigaraki. tomura is shigaraki but tomura has always been shigaraki.
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Jul 29, 2022 17:18
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really do not understand the inevitable pull towards power creep and higher stakes. the earlier fights in the manga are better because they're easier to follow for the reader and I think were almost clearly easier for Horikoshi to compellingly convey. is it a SJ editing thing or is the siren song of "just give everyone so many powers that you never have to really actually plot out a fight" just that strong?
Valentin fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Jul 29, 2022 |
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Jul 29, 2022 18:40
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Electric Phantasm posted:Not really a siren song, just the consequence of this type of writing where you're only allowed to escalate threats cause no one wants to read about the good guy stopping a petty thief trying to ruin a school festival after they just took down a deadly crime lord. i don't know if that holds, though. i feel like you hear all the time that the real problem with the manga is that it can never focus any time on the villains because fans hated it whenever the story went "main plot" and just wanted more slice of life hero academia. it can't be simultaneously true that people only wanted overarching huge threats that demanded power creep and people only wanted cute boys doing cute things. especially when the manga got popular in the first place because it handled smaller scale stuff well (among other things, a lot of early word of mouth for the series at least that I saw was about how well cool it was for taking seemingly useless powers and extending them, which is probably why a lot of people seem happier with vigilantes even if it ran too long or put the only woman in a hospital bed for the last half or whatever (i didn't read vigilantes)). i think you're right that it's not a siren song, but that's because horikoshi didn't actually change. whatever ending we're coming to, power creep and all, is the story horikoshi wanted to tell from the start, at least in its broad strokes, and it's simply that he's better at the small-scale stuff.
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Jul 29, 2022 19:21
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I don't think that's the case; the place it came up was Horikoshi revealing that sales plummeted during the forest training arc when the villains showed up, which is why the traitor reveal got skipped there. I don't recall any real depth or anything being added there, the villains just showed up and his editors apparently panicked and advised him to skip. At least that was the conclusion when this last came up in thread like three months ago. e: here, from the playbill for the spring 2022 stage show, ig https://www.twitter.com/AsarathaHS/status/1510738586362003457 my understanding is that while western fandom has generally liked the villains and was very into MVA, Japan has not been very similar at all. I think also, to your point, there was some discussion around the theory that MVA got seriously scaled back in the anime adaptation because it sympathized too much with the villains, but iirc that was muddled because it was also clearly censored due to time slot issues? I don't watch the anime so could be very offbase. Valentin fucked around with this message at 06:42 on Jul 30, 2022 |
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Jul 30, 2022 06:23
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gotta hand it to horikoshi. had a lot of thoughts coming out of 361 about how this might play out but in absolutely no way was i expecting the spoiler circulating twitter. e: whoops dropped actual spoiler per rules Valentin fucked around with this message at 07:15 on Aug 3, 2022 |
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Aug 3, 2022 07:03
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god this owns. there's like three obvious broad directions this can go (is dead, gets healed, somehow the time travel theory turns out to be correct) and all of them suck. all week i've had KATSUKI BAKUGO DIES IN MAGMA stuck in my head
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Aug 5, 2022 14:26
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If this gets reversed after he gets literally stabbed in the heart and rain falls on him while his prized childhood possession gets stained with blood that doesn't make any of this less silly. as with the traitor the question is less "which outcome will horikoshi go for" and more "what is this, how did we get here, what is the point even"
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Aug 5, 2022 16:54
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ImpAtom posted:Yes, a significant amount of people are reacting like this is going to stick and not a plot beat before another plot beat. far and away the most common complaint over the last few pages is that nothing sticks, and this is stupid whether it sticks or not
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Aug 5, 2022 17:04
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Fabricated posted:I have to ask- do people here just not read battle shonen series or something because "The big bad completely kicks the poo poo out of the ancillary/side cast as they throw their best stuff at them" and "The big bad (presumably) kills the MC's friend and/or rival" is some extremely, extremely, extremely well-trodden ground idk how to explain to you that stories are not just piles of beats and tropes and something that is done well in one series can be done exceedingly poorly in another
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Aug 5, 2022 17:10
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Electric Phantasm posted:what's "Bak U Go"? Bakugo looks like the second OFA user, so the theory is that somehow he gets time traveled (since Eri's quirk establishes time manipulation is within the realm of possibility for quirks) to the past to become the second user. Hori is clearly indicating further parallels between them in this chapter (which probably is just because deku is about to arrive and finally awaken the second users quirk, but hey), and it would be a way to have his cake and eat it too on bakugo's death, and also no one has any faith in his plotting anymore, so it suddenly seems much more plausible to people than before. Eggplant Squire posted:If MHA really wanted to follow shonen tropes he would be having all the background characters involved in fighting the stable of secondary antagonists it's gonna be incredible to go back to gashley(?) and kunieda(?) and toga and spinner after this lol.
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Aug 5, 2022 17:21
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Staltran posted:Other than the obvious, Bakugou also can't stay dead because otherwise Narrator!Deku wouldn't have known the "blowing up your own blood" thing was because of the Cluster Bomb technique, not a separate suicide technique. counterpoint: if all of narrator deku's "and that's how we all became the greatest heroes" statements have a secret asterisk that reads "*except for bakugo, who died", that comedy is worth any amount of minor inconsistency.
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Aug 5, 2022 22:36
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Delphisage posted:Overhaul. He's a villain that should've been a long-term issue, but the story just forgets about him because the author wasn't interested. which reminds me that we still have to pay off overhaul's seemingly random re-entry into the story. unless him saying he wanted to apologize was the payoff, in which case lmao
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Aug 6, 2022 23:57
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don't really even understand the point of spending 2-3 weeks on the big three. like we could've skipped to this right after bakugo's big item use without changing...anything else? e: like obviously they could leap into action here now, it's just such tedious throat-clearing the way it's been structured the last few weeks Valentin fucked around with this message at 17:51 on Aug 7, 2022 |
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Aug 7, 2022 17:41
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Woozie66 posted:Seeing a bunch of super popular characters all putting their life on the line, in a story built around self-sacrifice being the key that allows someone to make a change, and it being met with the villain just truly shrugging it off over and over and over just sucks. Extra sucks because there's very easy routes for both AFO (huge comic book nerd) and Shigaraki (gamer who loves fighting) to be enjoying this fight and selling it for the reader, and instead AFOgaraki is telling us it sucks and we should be bored. I don't think it's inconsistent at all for AFO to be like "haha yes, achieve your true power, this is very cool comic book fighting and beating you while you are at true shonen max strength only further confirms me as the ultimate demon lord", but instead he's just complaining about how boring and stupid it is.
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Aug 7, 2022 18:51
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what a snooze. as has been pointed out, there was already no clear way for the heroes to win short of "Deku's punches are just that crazy powerful" (boring, seems inconsistent with what we've been presented so far), "the Second's quirk is powerful enough to turn the tide" (lame), or Deus ex Eri or other device (eh). this turn doesn't actually change that, and has been foreshadowed since May (Dabi's weird glow) and clearly incoming since June (AFO regenerating). It'll probably read a little better in volume format but boy is it a slog right now.
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Aug 19, 2022 18:24
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y'know, at first look here, "haha brother, I instantly mastered your special technique due to my long training and exceptional skill" is somehow way lamer than the "completely unexplained phoenix quirk" idea that was floated
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Aug 22, 2022 04:52
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:I mean one piece also is set in a fantasy pirate seaplanet, whereas the Japanese government in MHA is basically just “the Japanese government from real life, but with superheroes” The Japanese government in chainsaw man, which is "the Japanese government from real life, but with demons" has made a contract that literally kills its own citizens to maintain its place in the global demon arms race. If there's editorial interference, it's significantly more likely to have compressed timelines than changed content for political reasons. Also there's nothing to suggest this isn't just the story Hori wanted to tell, and he's just not that artful at it.
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Aug 22, 2022 18:54
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