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This might be the first early access game I buy into. I've avoided others on principle but this sounds pretty solid and I'm itching for a game like it.
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Jan 31, 2015 00:52
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So I'm trying to avoid spoilers, but I've got a mechanics problem. I finished the tutorial but my Crusader survived with 1 HP. Now he's whining like a baby about having to go back out and I'm worried if I bring him along he's gonna gently caress everything up. I can't see any way to just leave him in town though. Do I have to bring 4 for the first dungeon and just hope for the best?
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Feb 4, 2015 21:58
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Welp finally got a guy killed on like my 6th mission or something. I kept trying to do "easy" ones because I'm stuck in a cycle where all my guys are stressed and whoever I bring into the dungeon gets even more stressed. I still barely got through them and this one finally forced me to retreat. Sucks because I lost my best guy due to the Jester I recruited not being able to hit a goddamn thing. Not being able to heal outside of combat is odd though. Makes me feel like the optimal way to play is to prolong combat against one enemy while a priest heals, which seems scummy.
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Feb 5, 2015 00:13
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Ugh, think I got a broken quest. Had to purify 3 alter things, but can only find two. I've been in every room of the dungeon. A map I found earlier labeled the 3 altars for me, but one of the rooms it marked was empty. I can't figure out what to do, unless the altar is in a hallway but that seems odd. Plus I'm wary about blundering around since I know there's at least one battle in that hall and my Graverobber has turned into masochistic idiotic, courtesy of rear end in a top hat goblet skeleton.  gently caress you 
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Feb 5, 2015 01:46
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What are you supposed to do if someone gets two traits that require specific stress relief? One of my priests is Flagellant and God Fearing. If I try to have her pray she wants the whips, if I try to get her to repent she wants the booth. Do you have no choice but to put them in the sanitarium to remove one?
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Feb 5, 2015 02:34
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"Well the Necromancer wasn't that hard so I'm sure my B team can handle taking out this Hag!  " 
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Feb 5, 2015 03:53
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Anyone have advice for the swamp Hag? Kind of stumped as to how to beat her. My good party members are either level 3 and refuse to go or got eaten by the Hag last time I fought her. Now I'm in an awkward position where I need to train up some new recruits while also keeping more of my guys from hitting rank 3 so they can actually go on the mission. It wouldn't be so bad if it didn't feel like certain classes are completely useless against that boss due to that loving pot. EDIT: Also some people mentioned not needing a healer but that seems literally impossible to me. Almost every fight my guys take some damage and over the course of a dungeon it would accumulate to lethal amounts if I didn't have a healer. Plus they keep your torch going longer which is nice. Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 05:22 on Feb 5, 2015 |
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Feb 5, 2015 05:15
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Nuebot posted:I just learned the hard way that if everyone dies you don't keep your loot, but if you can escape and return you at least keep that. Rest in peace sacrificial losers, I didn't like any of you except that one knight guy but I just recruited someone with the same skill set so whatever. I just tried to do an intermediate warrens mission with my A team and it was a complete failure. Third battle everyone misses, every attack crits, my Graverobber succumbs to blight. I run away screaming. Everything is terrible  EDIT: I noticed that if I buy armour for my guys, it shows up on everyone of their class. However if I take someone else to the upgrade screen they can still buy better armour. How exactly is it supposed to work? Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 06:07 on Feb 5, 2015 |
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Feb 5, 2015 06:03
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I really need to get better at spending money. I keep having missions go terribly because I can't stock up on enough supplies beforehand. Oh, I only have enough money to buy a handful of food and torches? Well I can make it off that alone. Then before I even see a single enemy my guys have to claw through two vine barricades, the healer goes crazy from stress, and now everyone is pissed off and panicked. I didn't even have to get into a fight for this mission to start sucking.  EDIT: My Leeper went masochistic and is complaining every time someone other than him gets hit. Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 06:43 on Feb 5, 2015 |
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Feb 5, 2015 06:41
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I had a similar experience with the Hag but felt it was my fault. The forest is full of those witches that gently caress with your positioning all the time so I was starting to think I needed to build a group that could fight well despite position fuckery. Shame I didn't actually follow through on that feeling before fighting the Hag though. I actually restarted the game though because I felt I was stuck in a cycle of barely making it through easy dungeons due to a lack of supplies. I know losing guys isn't the end, but I feel that you manage gold poorly you can get stuck in a cycle where you can't properly supply for missions so they go terribly and this just repeats itself over and over.
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Feb 5, 2015 07:28
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I really think this game would be better if it was rebalanced so that every encounter is intended the be potentially lethal but you always heal to full afterwards. Status buffs could have permanent malices for their duration rather than just doing trivial damage. I think games are a lot better when every fight has the chance to be deadly rather than having you simply be worn down due to attrition.
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Feb 5, 2015 08:41
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Knowing that to play optimally I need to stun an enemy indefinitely so my party doesn't get murdered next fight is pretty poo poo though. There needs to be a better way to heal outside of combat at the very least. Because as fun as this game is, this part of it is really lovely.
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Feb 5, 2015 08:50
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Jade Star posted:Well, first off you can not stun an enemy indefinitely. They have resists, so there's always risk it won't work, and any ability that lands deals at least 1 damage, so it will die eventually. You're getting really mad about an early access game that obviously has a bunch of balance and gameplay issues still. Chill out. Periodiko posted:This is a turn-based rogue-like tactical game, "playing optimally" is a large part of the point. Saying that the proper way to play a strategy game is to intentionally use bad strategies is asinine. This. I don't like using cheesy bullshit strategies but I also don't like one guy being put into death's door by a crit and then having no way to deal with it other than stalling for turns so I can heal him. Shoving food down his throat is expensive, inefficient, and can screw you over if the dungeon goes to long. Waiting til the next fight to heal might work out, but then all it takes is a bit more bad RNG for that guy to die. And since you can be surprised even with a fully lit torch, you don't have much way to mitigate that RNG. You can back out of dungeons, but if you're on a tight budget that can screw you since you spent a bunch of gold with no return depending on how far you got. So basically, I could take a bunch of risks that can cause catastrophic failure. Or I can just stunlock this dog and heal my guy up, resolving all those problems before they can happen. Its bad design that I'm making that choice in the first place. Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 09:25 on Feb 5, 2015 |
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Feb 5, 2015 09:15
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I just go ambushed by skeletons after setting up camp. Somehow, the skeletons started off the fight surprised. I can only imagine they're just bumbling through the dungeon and fell upon me completely by accident. EDIT: So I've learned that even if you find a map that reveals EVERYTHING, it does not reveal quest objectives that spawn in hallways. So don't be like me and forget to check one hallway at the start of the dungeon because you assumed it was empty. Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 10:21 on Feb 5, 2015 |
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Feb 5, 2015 10:10
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You guys are really overstating the danger of one enemy. You don't even have to stunlock it, you can just ignore it by moving in place forever. If it only does a trivial amount of damage per turn, what danger does it pose? There are plenty of enemies where once you kill all their buddies, the worst they can do is stress you out with a lucky crit. There are skills to reduce stress in battle though, so if you wanted to be REALLY scummy you could just juggle health and stress heals indefinitely. Its not hard to do at all and I could be doing it nearly every fight if I really wanted to.
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Feb 5, 2015 10:55
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Fat Samurai posted:Sorry, are enemies too dangerous to leave them alive or too easy to ignore/stun while you heal? You can't have both. Its almost like this is a game where crits exist and its possible for a group of enemies to do a ton of damage in the span of a single turn! Fat Samurai posted:EDIT: I think the problem with "too much stalling" is that you're trying to get everyone in perfect condition. Raising the party health to 80% is easy, getting them to 100% is hard because of bleeds/enemy attacks. At some point you're going to have to admit that you can't return the party to mint condition, and soldier on. No. The situation in which I'd do heal stalling is something like this;  This stupid little mushroom isn't going to kill me unless I let him. I can shuffle my guys around/have them waste turns buffing for no penalty. I can heal my guys back to an acceptable level while the mushroom flails about. Objectively speaking, this is absolutely the smartest play. If I just kill the mushroom, my guys are stuck at critical HP and I have the option of pressing on to almost certain death or abandoning the dungeon. Instead I can let it live while I heal, getting my party back up to an acceptable level. Its tedious but it beats giving up on an entire quest or getting guys killed when I know I can save them. And I'm sure as gently caress not abandoning this weald quest when its the first one the game has given me in weeks and I need the deeds to upgrade specific buildings! Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 11:32 on Feb 5, 2015 |
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Feb 5, 2015 11:26
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Fat Samurai posted:Depending on turn order, you're a stun failure away of losing both your frontliners. I didn't stun it a single time. I didn't need too. All I had to do was shuffle them back and keep healing, and it worked out fine. What the gently caress do you think the mushroom can do when its alone? All I ever see it do is spray spores. quote:How did you end up with your tanks blighted and one hit away from deaths door, anyway? You have no stress on them, which means you didn't get any critical hits. If you had, though, at least one of your guys would be dead. No I got critted a bunch. If stress is related to crits it sure as hell doesn't feel like it cause I've had guys get crit with 0 stress before. Also I've gone through dungeons with 4 people at max stress and didn't notice enemies critting more than usual. Also the plague doctor's heal is garbage that somehow manages to fail 4 turns in a row. quote:What I'm trying to say is that this looks like bad play, trying to leave the artillery for last and ignoring the fact that it powers up the big dudes with mark. Pulling the arty forward would have reduced your damage considerably, but would have left your party facing a thougher enemy that's harder to stall against. Again, the decisions aren't as obvious as you make them look. Are you seriously trying to tell me how the battle I loving played went out? No, the mushroom did not kill anyone. I healed back up and completed the dungeon instead of running away or getting killed. I didn't try to set up that situation either, the artillery ended up as the last guy simply due to dodges and misses. There were two in the formation so its not shocking one ends up as the last enemy.
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Feb 5, 2015 20:05
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ZypherIM posted:Also the people going on about how they need to stun-delay to heal, the point the other people are making is that you shouldn't get in a position where that becomes a thing you need to do. You made some sort of mistake earlier, either with party composition or how you handled the fights, but the game doesn't require you to do that to excel. And I think these people have a really distorted view of this game based on how much easier it gets later on. When you're just starting out, its very easy for the RNG to go crazy and get into a really bad situation. You have less control over fights due to poor party comp, no upgrade, etc. This also the only point in the game where you can really lock yourself into a failure state since you need money to do dungeons but lose money if you back out. Basically, the player has no way to deal with someone getting blown down to critical HP through bad luck in a short mission early on. Can't heal outside of combat, can't camp because its too small, can't back out because your budget is too tight.
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Feb 5, 2015 20:52
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grrarg posted:Except you do not need money to do dungeons. Grab four fresh redshirts from the wagon and send them in with no supplies or just a few food. Anything they loot is pure profit. Leave when it looks like they will not survive another fight. You will be surprised how far a party can get with no torches, and low light levels increase the amount of loot. Do not worry about stress since you can fire and replace them at no cost. Yeah I basically tried that. However its much easier to just start a new game than try to slog through the early dungeons with a bunch of idiots that suck and can still be ruined by RNG. I mean its fun at first but I got sick of making basically zero progress which is what prompted me to restart. I guess its my fault for trying to play this game without spoilers so I made a bunch of big mistakes due to a lack of mechanic understanding. I don't like to spoil myself on games, but on reflection playing an early access game riddled with balance issues blind is pretty stupid. EDIT: I just had an occultist say "let me by, I'm famished!" and proceed to eat out of the item we just stumbled upon. It was a cart full of corpses
Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Feb 5, 2015 |
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Feb 5, 2015 21:44
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Does "mark" qualify as a debuff or is it some other thing that always applies to enemies/heroes regardless of resists?Periodiko posted:There is an XCOM-like difficulty curve, which probably should be fixed, but I also think part of the reason the game gets substantially easier is that you just learn how to play it. A big part of this game's supposedly brutal difficulty is just the learning curve, since it's very unlike any other game, and actively confounds a lot of genre expectations. Like how could you possibly know how to provision well without having played the game a bunch? Knowing that you'll need a ton of shovels in the Weald makes a big difference, for example. Knowing that you should leave certain dungeon features alone makes a huge difference. Knowing how to fight the bosses, knowing the enemy attacks you'll face, knowing how to compose a party and what skills are good when. Yeah learning is definitely a big part of it. A good game should be playable with you learning as you go along, and I think this game is mostly good about that. There are some things you can't learn until you make a mistake though. Such as the fact that enemies gently caress with positioning all the time, provisions are only good for one dungeon, a longer dungeon isn't neccesairly harder etc. There's also a lot of hidden stats that are hard to understand. I still don't get how speed works since it feels random at times. Still, my first run I had I think 6 people dead by week 15 or so? This time I don't have ANYONE dead. Haven't had to retreat from a dungeon either. EDIT: Though maybe I should wait until after I've killed the Hag to say that because that was the first part of my old run where I got absolutely destroyed.
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Feb 5, 2015 23:15
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You'd think retreating from a mission would give you a bunch of bad quirks. I guess weald phobe makes sense?  Zaphod42 posted:I went in blind because I like to figure things out myself, and had no problem figuring out all the mechanics myself? I've figured out most of the mechanics myself, I just had to learn them through trial and error. There are still things I don't get though simply because the game doesn't tell you. Are movement effects debuffs or a different stat entirely? Why don't monsters list it if its separate? Just how the hell does speed work for determining turn order, beyond "more equals better"? Stuff like that, which is important on a tactical level.
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Feb 5, 2015 23:32
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I lost several parties early on to stupid tactical decisions, but I learned and I got better. I've now downed several bosses.
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I think this game has a very solid groundwork, it just needs more variety to give it longevity. Their are two dungeons still to be added but I would definitely like more classes. Also for them to be balanced better, because right now I don't see any reason I shouldn't be running with 3 Hellions other than for the sake of fun. Speaking of which, is there any way to increase move resist? I want to use the Leper but he has zero positioning skills that I could see, so I'm wondering if there is a way to keep him rooted in front other than pure luck.
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Feb 6, 2015 01:53
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Yeah there are some move resist boots, I've been really looking hard for a pair. I just got one from the Swine Prince. Unfortunately, its pretty poo poo for the Leper since the penalty is too accuracy. Ideal for a Vestal though since they are useless when they get pulled up front, so I'll do anything to prevent that even if it makes some attacks whiff. My problem with the Leper's lack of mobility mainly comes up during surprise attacks though, which I don't think move resist even factors in. I wish I understood surprise attacks better. I know its influenced by torch level but I've been ambushed at 100 light and surprised the enemy at 0.
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Feb 6, 2015 03:53
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This game is so disgustingly beautiful. Almost every new enemy I encounter is both amazing and horrifying. I can't wait to see the horrible aquatic beasts that will be in the Cove dungeon. I mean, the Warrens already have cthulhu worms   Hieronymous Alloy posted:That's exactly what I did too. Party was Crusader, Jester, BH, Occultist. Did two runs in a row and took her out fairly readily both times. I like the Leper but he feels like one of the weakest classes. I mean when he can just hang out in front being a wall and chopping enemies to bits he's great. Every class is great when they are in their element though. The most dangerous fights are the ones where you lose control and get caught out of position. In those situations, the Leper is utterly useless. He's got no mobility skills to get back up front and can't do anything from the back. That makes him inferior to all the other classes that can either do things from the back or move up to the front without spending several turns shuffling through the party.
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Feb 6, 2015 05:38
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Leper is great against the Swine Prince. If you use his protection buff he takes barely any damage and can stay up front for the whole fight, even when that little poo poo Wilbur is marking him for death every turn. EDIT: poo poo I guess my Leper heard me bad mouthing him because he apparently ran away 
Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 06:08 on Feb 6, 2015 |
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Feb 6, 2015 05:50
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Well this was an odd "failure". I was only like 5 rooms into the dungeon and already my pockets were overflowing with deeds. It was to the point where there wasn't really any reason to go further. I wasn't gonna be able to carry most of the stuff, I'd already made my gold investment back, and the quest reward wasn't even great. I guess now I can upgrade my blacksmith more!
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Feb 6, 2015 07:09
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Man I need to learn to stop being greedy. I just fought the Swine King and had him crit my frontliners twice, putting them at low HP. I still beat him without issue, so surely I just back out afterwards right? Nope, gotta keep exploring because I see treasure on the map. I mean what are the odds of- oh hey all 4 enemies focused one guy so he died  He would of lived if he didn't have two -HP trinkets on him. I figured since they increased healing his effective HP would be higher, but my healer was healing for the exact same amounts as before. It seemed like they did nothing.
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Feb 6, 2015 10:08
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I've grown irrationally attached to this guy. He came with rabies and rather than cure it I've instead tried to stack as much damage on him as possible, accuracy be damned. Its goddamn hilarious that he can reasonably kill stuff just by pointing at it and shouting. Any of you guys got characters you're trying dumb gimmicks with?
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Feb 6, 2015 11:58
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I do have one slightly bugged Vestal with -5 SPD from "Other." Maybe it's time for her to go. 7 positive traits though! Did you have her spend a night in the brothel? My Jester got "exhausted" by that and had -5 speed. It doesn't seem to go away either until you do a mission with that hero. Baronjutter posted:Any tips on apprentice necromancer? It's a very large dungeon and I'm having trouble even getting to the boss (haven't even seen it yet). I try to hold off my camp as long as I can but find I'm having to use it 1/3 of the way through the dungeon, then being forced to retreat a few rooms from the end. I'll have a good thing going, but all it takes is one surprise attack and I'll go into a stress spiral. Now that I'm figuring out the game more health isn't a big concern, it's always stress. Keep your torch radiant. It doesn't prevent surprise attacks completely, but it makes them less likely and also improves your scouting. From what I've seen, you can't be surprised by a fight if you've scouted it. You can also use skills at camp to improve scouting on certain heroes, but you might want to focus on reducing stress if you're having problems with it. anatolehp posted:A good thing to know on all bosses is that they are always in the room farthest from the start. So plan your route accordingly. Yeah this is something they need to change. Its most noticeable with the Swine since his map is just a big box, and navigating it would be difficult if his position was random. He's always just at the farthest square from you though, so the map actually becomes incredibly short.
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Feb 6, 2015 19:57
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*Hellion gets put into Death's Door with blight* Plague Doctor: You cannot die! We need you!  *Cure Failed!* *DEATHBLOW* Cures being able to fail is the dumbest poo poo that makes the plague doctor even more worthless.
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Feb 6, 2015 21:21
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Hunger needs to be visible. Just lost one of my awesome Hellions in a level 5 Hag missions because, inches from the door, hunger struck and took them down from max health. My guys had literally stuffed their faces full of food in the room right before the Hag, but oh nope now we're suddenly starving. I guess the smell of boiling human flesh really got to them! Its kind of funny how this game is working out for me. People said the late game was easy but I'm losing a few guys due to hubris/bad luck now, unlike early on where I never came close to failing once after I figured out how to play. Maybe its because I'm doing Level 5 missions with 3/4 guys though.
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Feb 6, 2015 23:06
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Is there any way to improve the Jester's frontline debuff? I love having a Jester in front because that skill looks awesome but I'm question its usefulness in most scenarios. I mean even with a crit it only does two damage so what you really want from it is the debuff. I haven't seen the chances of applying that debuff rise at all with levels though, and monster resistances do so how is it supposed to stay useful?
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Feb 7, 2015 00:06
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I love the Hag fight. Its probably one of the most memorable bosses I've seen in ages just because of how frustrating and horrifying it can be. Got some super badass party member? Hag doesn't give a poo poo, she'll just shove him into the pot for dinner. Better think fast! 
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Feb 7, 2015 01:08
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Well I beat all the bosses, which I figure is as close to a game finish you can get right now. Cool game, really excited to see where it goes from here. Despite people saying the late game is trivial, my wall of shame is a testament to bad ideas and hubris;  Basically all those guys died due to me experimenting with bad party layouts or being a dumb fucker. Pretty much all of them died on their very first deathblow too, so I'm wondering; do the first few weeks have some hidden bonus to death blow resist? In the first few weeks of my two runs, I had guys get hit in death's door multiple times and survive. Not sure if that was just dumb luck or the game being merciful to a new player/RNG victim. Also, I hear some people playing without healers and I legit don't get how. I can see how overwhelming offense works on paper but it seems very susceptible to terrible RNG luck. You might be able to crush every formation before they can do anything, but what if they just roll more speed and crit you a bunch? Happened to me before, and I can salvage the situation with a healer, but without one you'd just be straight hosed unless it was a longer mission and you hadn't camped yet. Right now I feel like I have to bring a Vestal on every mission to not risk death by RNG. I've used an Occultist in her place many times and had it work but the later on you get the less effective this is since his heal can be utterly useless depending on dice. Maybe I'm just not bold enough.
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Feb 7, 2015 09:06
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Necromancer is pathetic. The other two bosses easily have the potential for stuff to go wrong, but I have no idea how the Necromancer is supposed to kill anyone unless you go into the fight with terrible health. His attacks are all weak and he's not particularly robust either. His gimmick of spawning a skeleton with every attack might be a problem if he didn't summon the shittiest, weakest skeletons around. Even the tier 3 Necromancer summons are basically just speed bumps. I think the worst the Necromancer could ever do is randomly spam his stress inducing attack every turn and make your guys go insane from it. He probably wouldn't live long enough for that to even matter though.
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Feb 7, 2015 09:51
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Hellion feels like, on top of everything else she is great at, the best boss killer as well. Gets a big damage buff in camp, can reliably hit all the bosses with powerful attacks, and can inflict bleed as well which is great against the Hag. I kind of think the Hellion is a bit too good. She can fight from any position and has so many good moves to work with. For that much versatility she isn't really fragile either.
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Feb 7, 2015 19:06
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Zaphod42 posted:Course on the Pig if you pick the wrong strategy its pretty much a wipe forcing you to learn the hard way, which is also kinda dumb. I don't see how. When I first fought the Swine I tried to kill Wilbur first because attacking the back row is usually the right move. Right after the Swine chopped my party, one of my guys shouted "Attacking the little one enrages the giant!". It flat out tells you that hitting Wilbur is a bad idea and if you continue to do it its your own drat fault for not listening. If that one attack is enough to ruin you then its also your fault for trying to fight a new boss with a battered group. I'm of two minds on the Hag...one one hand I do agree with most of what has been said about her being bullshit the first time you fight her. I kind of liked that though? My first Hag fight was a catastrophic failure which made the boss really memorable to me. Its really unique in how it takes away control and does horrible things to your party members, regardless of how much of a badass they might be. I suppose a fair solution would be to make the pot only one square wide but have it work the same way. That would let most classes hit the Hag, albeit for poor damage depending on your setup. Maybe have the pot upgrade to two tiles on the later fights. Necromancer absolutely needs to be buffed since he's a joke.
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Feb 8, 2015 00:01
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My favorite detail is that each character reacts differently to breaking from stress. An abusive Plague Doctor will call her allies idiots with no common sense. A masochistic Leper will complain every time the enemy hits someone other than him because he really wants to die. An irrational Jester will do nothing but laugh and laugh and laugh. It almost makes me want to intentionally stress out more guys so I can see all the different things they say.
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Feb 8, 2015 00:40
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Kyrosiris posted:Yeah, it's a good line. I also like the one about overconfidence being a slow and insidious killer. That's my favorite line since its probably the most apt description of this game. At the end of the day, hubris will be a greater obstacle to your guys survival than any beast you encounter in the dungeon. The narrator is pretty great but I hope gets some more lines about specific things. The fact that he needs to chime in every time you run into a wall gets pretty old, mainly because he's super over dramatic about a pile of rocks. "Even the COLD STONE seems intent on blocking passage! "Dude I've got a shovel right here there's no reason to get so worked up. Jackard posted:I got one early on as well, no idea where. Could it be a quest? I've seen some very baffling trinkets that go beyond just "bad" too "this seems like something meant for an entirely different class". There's one that in exchange for a bunch of nasty downsides gives a boost to stun chance, blight chance, and bleed chance. Its exclusive to the Vestal, the class with one mediocre stun and no bleed/blight skills whatsoever 
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Feb 8, 2015 09:12
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I really wish upgrading the Occultist gave his heal a minimum amount, even if it was pathetically small. Once you get to the late game he can't really reliably heal in place of the Vestal because its possible for the RNG just to say "gently caress you" and give you a zero heal, which will of course happen when someone is in death's door. I think being able to inflict a nasty bleed on your allies is enough of a downside anyways.
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Feb 8, 2015 19:21
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