|
Bob le Moche posted:"Brazil says it recognizes Venezuelan opposition leader as president" Is there any basis for this? Is there any reason to actually think this guy won the election instead of Maduro? These are genuine questions I have no idea.
|
#
¿
Jan 13, 2019 18:22
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 13, 2024 11:02 |
|
|
This thread is about Venezuela. That said, even if I accept that justification at face value, I also think we should be suspicious of anything the newly empowered fascist government of Brazil wants. Edit: to be clear, that explanation makes sense to me on paper. Lightning Knight fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Jan 13, 2019 |
|
#
¿
Jan 13, 2019 19:30
|
|
|
fnox posted:I keep wondering, how does the Venezuelan government not seem fascist to leftists? Like, how do you justify having what is effectively a one-party military dictatorship that has displaced millions running Venezuela? You're all terrified of what Bolsonaro can do to personal freedoms, look at what loving Maduro has done. The current state of Venezuelan society IS the neoliberal nightmare, those who earn dollars get to eat everyone else is living off the scraps, where you can find expensive cuts of meat flown in straight from New York butchers but you can't find one loving morsel of locally sourced beef because the government has destroyed every productive element of the economy. I don’t think Maduro is good, I just also don’t think international military intervention is likely to improve the situation. I would like to know more about opposition guy. What does he stand for?
|
|
#
¿
Jan 13, 2019 20:10
|
|
|
Labradoodle posted:He's from Leopoldo Lopez party, which is slightly to the left of center. In any case, even if he manages to get widespread recognition as the legitimate president, the constitution says he needs to call to elections in 30 days if I remember correctly. He's not really a well-known name in Venezuelan politics aside from the role he's playing now so I can't imagine they'd want to run him as a candidate in that hypothetical. However, most of the well-known opposition guys have hosed up so hard that it's hard to imagine they'll want to run again, in any case. Interesting. What do you mean by the opposition guys have hosed up so hard?
|
|
#
¿
Jan 14, 2019 04:44
|
|
|
Feinne posted:The opposition keeps tripping over their own dicks with mealy-mouth bullshit because they're a bunch of parties that don't agree on much except that Maduro is a huge piece of poo poo, and at least a few of their leaders seemed to actually be working with the PSUV against the rest of the opposition because they're more comfortable jobbing as fake opposition than actually governing. And the people who do have credibility have a bad habit of ending up in prison because being a credible and competent member of the opposition leadership might as well be a crime in Venezuela. Oh. That’s unfortunate. My understanding is that Venezuela’s primary issue is the economy didn’t handle the drop in oil prices well. Is there even anything the PSUV could do about that right now? I’m assuming Maduro has no plans to step down voluntarily.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 14, 2019 05:16
|
|
|
wdarkk posted:That's one issue, but there's three other big ones. The first is that Venezuela implemented non-subsidized price ceilings for many staple goods that were unsustainable, the second is that they failed to actually maintain the oil infrastructure, resulting in massive drops in production. The third is the currency scheme, but I don't really want to be the one to explain that. I see... so, what do they do about it? I mean in general, regardless of who is in charge, what is the solution? Is there a solution?
|
|
#
¿
Jan 14, 2019 05:20
|
|
|
I don’t precisely understand why they wouldn’t admit there’s a problem? Is it a propaganda thing? A pride thing?
|
|
#
¿
Jan 14, 2019 05:28
|
|
|
Intentionally raising prices in a country afflicted with hyperinflation seems like a recipe for revolution to me.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 14, 2019 12:58
|
|
|
evilweasel posted:in a country with hyperinflation prices are always rising, every hour! So then... what would making the prices go up faster accomplish?
|
|
#
¿
Jan 14, 2019 16:15
|
|
|
Dapper_Swindler posted:"Be assured. I tell you with certainty. I went to the future and I returned and saw that everything goes well and that the civic-military union guarantees peace and happiness to our people,” he concluded. This has to be a mistranslation. 
|
|
#
¿
Jan 23, 2019 04:13
|
|
|
Furia posted:What the gently caress is NPR and what does t have to do with people rebelling because their children are starving to death? NPR is the radio program American centrist liberals listen to on the way to work. Lightning Knight fucked around with this message at 16:13 on Jan 23, 2019 |
|
#
¿
Jan 23, 2019 16:07
|
|
|
Furia posted:And the second question? The argument as I understand it is that the American establishment is interested in some form of direct intervention in Venezuela and centrist news organizations in the US like NPR are normalizing this position even among far right politicians they usually pretend to be skeptical of. I don’t know who the guy who made that tweet is.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 23, 2019 16:21
|
|
|
fishmech posted:Is there some kind of reason you chose to lie about this? It’s not a lie, I simply conceive of “program” as meaning the same thing as “channel” because that’s how it was used around me when growing up. Likewise, the only people I know who listen to NPR are stuffy middle aged suburbanite centrists. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ But of course, you are being pedantic again. The point, so that we don’t have to have a stupid semantic argument for the next twelve pages, is that it’s on the radio. Lightning Knight fucked around with this message at 17:27 on Jan 23, 2019 |
|
#
¿
Jan 23, 2019 17:22
|
|
|
Given the US’ track record in Latin America and that we are led by Trump and supporting the new fascist government in Brazil, I’m inclined to not co-sign what the Trump Administration is doing here. Not when the main architects of Trump’s foreign policy are Bolton and Miller.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 23, 2019 20:31
|
|
|
fishmech posted:You really don't seem well read on this, but it is in the provisions of the valid Hugo Chavez-era constitution that the legislature is empowered to choose who should be the interim executive when the executive violates laws on proper elections. Neither Trump nor Brazil's fascists invented these provisions. While that may be true, that doesn’t meant that they are acting in good faith or don’t have ulterior motives. There doesn’t seem to be an ideal endgame here that doesn’t result in bloodshed, and Trump meddling is unlikely to make things better. If anything he’s undermining the legitimacy of the opposition.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 23, 2019 20:42
|
|
|
Discendo Vox posted:This isn't the Trump thread. You don't need to evaluate everything in terms of the domestic politics of the United States. The American government effectively just co-signed an attempted political coup. While you may wish to argue that they are justified in doing so, it is undeniable now that we have made ourselves involved.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 23, 2019 20:46
|
|
|
Discendo Vox posted:That's...not what I said. You are evaluating what is happening in another country in terms of how the US is involved, and not with any particular attention or knowledge of what is happening in that country. You're also getting the directionality of the coup backwards- Maduro executed a coup by attempting to bypass the legislature. That last part seems like the core of the dispute. I don’t think it’s on the US to enforce the election laws in other countries, however. If the Russian government declared that Trump was illegitimate and that they think Hillary Clinton is the rightful president 3 years after 2016 that would not be a good thing even if Trump is human garbage.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 23, 2019 20:52
|
|
|
Sinteres posted:So did Trudeau. Do you think he has a fascist agenda too? Extending diplomatic recognition to the most legitimate political figure in the country may not do much to help things, but it at least gives the military in Venezuela one more chance to do the right thing and stop supporting the dictator who's ruined their country. The military doesn't even have to overthrow him, they can just get out of the way and allow the people to make their choice heard. As a general rule, I think encouraging military coups in other countries is not a good thing. Especially given that usually when the US does this, we install people like Pinochet.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 23, 2019 20:54
|
|
|
Discendo Vox posted:The US isn't enforcing the election law of another country, it's performing its obligations under the general principles of international law regarding the recognition of sovereign governments. This is a canned PR response at best that flies in the face of historical US actions in Latin America and buys into the fairy tale that any major military power gives a gently caress about international law except when it suits them.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 23, 2019 20:56
|
|
|
Sinteres posted:Do you think Trudeau signed on because he wants right wing death squads to kill more Veneuzelans than Maduro would starve too? I think Trudeau signed on because Canada is a US ally that generally follows the US foreign policy line.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 23, 2019 21:01
|
|
|
Sinteres posted:The US says all options are on the table about everything. Bush, Obama and Trump have all said it about Iran a billion times and we never invaded Iran. Considering that noted US ally Israel routinely bombed Iran and the US government under Bush clearly wanted to, I don’t think this is a great example. Majorian posted:I think we all agree Maduro's bad I think this is optimistic tbh.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 23, 2019 21:10
|
|
|
Sinteres posted:Israel doesn't bomb Iran, they bomb Iranian forces in Syria. I'm not saying that's wonderful either, but there's a pretty significant difference. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Opera?wprov=sfti1 fishmech posted:The military coup already happened several years ago, the formal abandonment of the legal constitution occurred on August 8, 2017. That seems to be what you're missing here. The country is already run by a dime store Pinochet. I don’t think the US should intervene regardless tbh. The US government is not a good faith actor. I also think the best case scenario would’ve been for Maduro to step down. I think that ship sailed with the foreign recognition.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 23, 2019 21:15
|
|
|
Sinteres posted:You didn't get the country right this time either. That was Iraq, and 1981 isn't a timely reference. Oh darn it I copied the wrong thing. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.timesofisrael.com/israel-destroyed-irans-nuclear-program-already-last-year-leaked-intelligence-claims/amp/ But lol that Israel bombs so many of its neighbors with impunity.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 23, 2019 21:19
|
|
|
Sinteres posted:The last time Venezuelans were allowed to freely vote, the opposition won, which is why this guy's the legitimate leader of the country. Of course there should be new elections once the Maduro military regime collapses though. And when, inevitably, this does not happen, and conveniently the new Venezuelan dictator is friendly to the US? Aw, darn, so sad, what a terrible outcome, I’m sure.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 23, 2019 21:21
|
|
|
AGGGGH BEES posted:How would a CIA mole in charge of Venezuela be any worse than the government they have now? How would it be any better? That seems to be the missing piece here. Like, we know if a US-backed government takes over, there isn’t gonna be fair elections under them either right? Like, lmao.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 23, 2019 21:32
|
|
|
AGGGGH BEES posted:Lol you know absolutely nothing about this topic and just showed up here to poo poo on the venegoons because Trump said something about it. You've made it clear from your posts in this thread that you havn't even bothered to look at the Venezuelan constitution or done even the most cursory reading about the current economic and political situation in Venezuela. You are the epitome of an American bourgeoisie left-wing dilettante, utterly incapable of viewing any affair except through a lense relating to the US. I mean if “knowing that US intervention almost universally ends badly and that no one should celebrate it” makes me a “bourgeoisie left-wing dilettante” then ok I guess.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 23, 2019 21:42
|
|
|
A Typical Goon posted:This thread only trusts the most unbiased of sources - well off white goons that haven't lived in the country for years  From this point forward, asserting that your political opponents must necessarily be clueless white people with no actual basis in this thread is going to be a 3 day.By that I mean, unless the person you're referring to has explicitly identified themselves as white, shut the gently caress up. Lightning Knight fucked around with this message at 03:12 on Jan 29, 2019 |
|
#
¿
Jan 29, 2019 03:07
|
|
|
Chuck Boone posted:I was hoping to take the rest of the night off, but I saw these tweets and ran back here: This is really loving bad.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 24, 2019 04:01
|
|
|
This is the least interesting thing you fucks could be discussing right now.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 24, 2019 04:18
|
|
|
WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:
What kind of calorie counts are we looking at here? Like it obviously isn’t enough I’m just curious.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 25, 2019 07:11
|
|
|
ditty bout my clitty posted:This Maduro character is not very madure This gimmick wasn’t funny when Control Volume did it in CSPAM either. Go away.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 27, 2019 19:14
|
|
|
Rust Martialis posted:Never having played CoD, is this even remotely accurate? Call of Duty: Ghosts is basically a paranoid right-wing fantasy about "what if Red Dawn but against super Venezuela," it is essentially Tom Clancy mixed with the Turner Diaries. It's also a 6 year old game and was widely panned as one of the worst ones.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 13, 2019 06:25
|
|
|
Plastic_Gargoyle posted:I've played Ghosts, and claiming it has anything in common with the Turner poo poo is stretching things to their limit. It's a game about heroic square jawed almost uniformly white male American soldiers standing in brave resistance to the vaguely defined foreign South American hordes, where they literally build doomsday weapons and a "Freedom Wall" and are somehow still the good guys. It is very much so far right RaHoWa propaganda, but again this is a Call of Duty game that is more than half a decade old and of little relevance to modern Venezuelan-American relations or politics.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 15, 2019 07:34
|
|
|
GreyjoyBastard posted:I think there might be room for someone else in the MUD to get their poo poo together in the next six months Would you say that the next six months are in fact, critical?
|
|
#
¿
May 6, 2019 00:46
|
|
|
GreyjoyBastard posted:Content infusion: Lol he sucks so much. The only appropriate answer to that question is “no, gently caress you.”
|
|
#
¿
May 6, 2019 05:21
|
|
|
You do not need to triple post, you know. Keeshhound posted:Yeah, but that was two years ago; you think Donnie even remembers that? I am sure there are probably diplomats somewhere furiously trying to remind him of it.
|
|
#
¿
May 9, 2019 06:41
|
|
|
Elias_Maluco posted:Well that's a surprise It's comforting that the leader of the coup, despite being such a monster apparently, is also such a dumbass.
|
|
#
¿
May 11, 2019 05:24
|
|
|
Shaocaholica posted:If Uber eats refuses to deliver to your self imposed prison that’s not really being starved. Well maybe by white people standards. Ah yes, it’s because they are lazy, and not because there are armed police outside preventing food from entering.
|
|
#
¿
May 15, 2019 21:33
|
|
|
Guaido gonna live out the rest of his pathetic career squatting in the embassy and insisting that he’s the real president, he’s not owned, you’re owned. Venezuela and Libya are gonna be abject lessons to every other country on the planet to never ever make agreements with the US or western countries and then the foreign policy people will keep whining and writing op eds asking why no one likes us, why do they keep going to be China’s friend instead? 
|
|
#
¿
May 16, 2019 19:34
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 13, 2024 11:02 |
|
|
Acebuckeye13 posted:Looks like some form of negotiations are going on: Ideally they’re chatting with the left party representatives and not Guaido and the other right-wingers.
|
|
#
¿
May 17, 2019 17:08
|
|