Dem Presidential Primary 2020: Bernie dropped out, all hail nominee Biden

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Dem Presidential Primary 2020: Bernie dropped out, all hail nominee Biden

«‹›11 »

MSDOS KAPITAL: Jun 25, 2018

just chiming to say:

bernie sanders is going to be your next president and husband

# ¿ Jan 31, 2020 06:19

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ May 15, 2024 20:12

MSDOS KAPITAL: Jun 25, 2018

imagine if the police were about to come to your house and arrest you for robbing a convenience store but luckily for you before you left the store you grabbed the hdd with the footage of the robbery on it and they got no tangible evidence to pin the robbery on you

then when the cops show up you sit them down in front of your computer and show them the footage and give them a copy and triumphantly shout "ha!" as though you were the master of all things

that's elizabeth warren and her campaign, y'all

# ¿ Jan 31, 2020 07:48

MSDOS KAPITAL: Jun 25, 2018

It would crater the Democratic party and ensure they don't achieve national prominence again for a generation, if ever, but so would ratfucking him on the second ballot, which they will absolutely do if they can. So then they have two questions to ask themselves: how likely are they to be able to force a second ballot, and which path would affect the grift more?

# ¿ Feb 1, 2020 00:08

MSDOS KAPITAL: Jun 25, 2018

goethe.cx posted:

Honestly the DNC should be hoping for a Bernie nom that loses to Trump because that would devastate the left for a generation

OurRevolution isn't going anywhere if that happens. Neither is JusticeDems, nor AOC's new PAC to gently caress over conservative Democrats.

# ¿ Feb 1, 2020 00:54

MSDOS KAPITAL: Jun 25, 2018

Mahoning posted:

Not a single Bernie oppo dump has lasted more than a day or so.

Oddly enough I think the Joe Rogan broohaha actually lasted the longest. Maybe 3 days or so?

Bernie is immune to all this poo poo. I honestly don�t know, if one of the other campaigns was paying me a bunch of money to help them win, what I would actually tell them to do.

I don't know. The Vietnam poo poo worries me and might have legs. Particularly in Iowa I could see it making a difference.

# ¿ Feb 1, 2020 07:44

MSDOS KAPITAL: Jun 25, 2018

Antifa Turkeesian posted:

How could anyone like Hilary Clinton? It�s like people who like marmite

What the gently caress

mods?

# ¿ Feb 1, 2020 07:48

MSDOS KAPITAL: Jun 25, 2018

John Wick of Dogs posted:

Iowan Democratic voters are very anti war

I find that kind of hard to believe. Why do you think this is so?

# ¿ Feb 1, 2020 07:53

MSDOS KAPITAL: Jun 25, 2018

oxsnard posted:

Nobody likes war anymore and everyone knows that Vietnam was a horror show. I'd be more worried about a Palestinian woman asserting herself when it comes to dumb voter feelings about things

Yeah I'm not really worried about Rashida making GBS threads on Hillary tbh. The Vietnam thing I'm worried about because for a lot of people even if they hate war and think Vietnam was a bad idea, suggesting that America is fallible to that extent could be out of bounds for them. Even for like center-left Democrats who have already made up their mind to vote for Bernie, it could cause them to reconsider.

# ¿ Feb 1, 2020 08:05

MSDOS KAPITAL: Jun 25, 2018

Corbeau posted:

Last I checked, Americans do not look back fondly on the Vietnam War.

Okay, so Rambo, right? Ostensibly an anti-war movie. Sort of. At least, it does not defend Vietnam. But it does glorify and elevate and try to honor the people who fought in it - that they were honorably fighting a war that they probably shouldn't have been but really were just as much victims as the people they were fighting. In fact the movie portrays US soldiers in Vietnam in a more sympathetic light than the loving Vietnamese themselves. (And actually it makes excuses for why we got our rear end kicked instead of addressing the evils of imperialism, but that's not really germane to any of this right now.) That came out in 1982, and was a great success and people love it still, and if you think people haven't warmed up considerably to US soldiers in general, compared to that already pretty sympathetic take, in the nearly 40 years since with constant "support our troops" propaganda particularly since 9/11, then you are just flat out wrong. I don't know how else to put it.

Point being that you can't say that American soldiers did stuff that was almost as bad as loving Hitler without raising a few eyebrows. Because that means that US soldiers are - what - almost like loving Nazis? Don't underestimate the number of kinda center-left Xers in Iowa right now who were planning to vote for Bernie and are now reading that statement and putting it together and going "what the gently caress? we fought against the Nazis :mad:

" and now they're giving Warren or Buttigieg another look.

Like obviously they've been waiting to drop this until just before Iowa, and here it is, and... I don't know. It feels like it's got more legs than anything else they've tried this month. Rogan, Warren, Hillary, Hillary again, and so on: none of that poo poo hurt Bernie at all and probably helped him. This is the first thing that feels like it might have a significant negative impact.

# ¿ Feb 1, 2020 08:23

MSDOS KAPITAL: Jun 25, 2018

Y'all are reading this like it's just Sanders saying "Vietnam was a really bad war" and maybe that's all people are going to take from it. Like I really loving hope so, anyway. But that's not what he said: he was calling out our actions there and the actions of our soldiers, and woo boy is that another kettle of fish. Saying America was morally wrong? Bad. Comparing America to Nazi Germany? Uh pretty loving bad, actually. Comparing US soldiers to loving Hitler? I mean I don't disagree, to be absolutely clear - look at Gallagher. But it's pretty loving bad.

I think he can count among his base the people who are least likely to give a poo poo, or those who will even agree. But that's not his entire coalition, and this is a close race. It's going to be a long weekend.

# ¿ Feb 1, 2020 08:33

MSDOS KAPITAL: Jun 25, 2018

JosephWongKS posted:

Lmao at this handwringing bullshit.

Trump insulted "war hero" McCain and a Gold Star family, and that only made him more popular with the Republican voters.

So long as you don't back down and stick to your guns, you can get away with saying pretty much anything you want. Especially when you are speaking is the truth, like Bernie is about the Vietnam war.

The Democratic base is not the Republican base.

# ¿ Feb 1, 2020 17:45

MSDOS KAPITAL: Jun 25, 2018

overmind2000 posted:

The New York Times released a new donor map

I'm the 200,000 new individual donors since Jan 1.

# ¿ Feb 2, 2020 09:56

MSDOS KAPITAL: Jun 25, 2018

Yudo posted:

these idiots are emptying my bank account.

# ¿ Feb 2, 2020 10:03

MSDOS KAPITAL: Jun 25, 2018

Antifa Turkeesian posted:

There has to be a better metaphor for this. It�s liberals who ally with fascists.

Same diff.

# ¿ Feb 3, 2020 03:23

MSDOS KAPITAL: Jun 25, 2018

lol I just checked and turns out I am blocked - that's pretty recent too

welp

# ¿ Feb 3, 2020 03:47

MSDOS KAPITAL: Jun 25, 2018

Sanguinia posted:

If Bernie misses 1st in Iowa to Biden, or really anybody even very closely, I worry that the specter of ELECTABILITY is going to rear its head as we go on the road to Super Tuesday. Even a decisive win in New Hampshire won't silence it, the reality that Trump cannot lose without flipping a swing/pink state is going to be a siren song to skitish primary voters. I can see the "Bernie may be the king of the blue states, but can't win Wisconsin/North Carolina/Arizona/Kansas/Georgia, ergo he CAN'T be the nominee," rhetoric now.

They're going to do that if he wins Iowa, NH, and NV by double-digit margins. I mean it'll have less credibility, but it's still going to happen. And, a lot worse than that.

Main Paineframe posted:

I don't think Yang really has all that much in common with Sanders. He's much closer to Warren, in that he's a pro-capitalism centrist who happens to lean left of the establishment on one or two pet issues, and is trying to take advantage of that to hijack the Bernie wave for himself.

Yang might not but I get the feeling that Yang supporters do, compared to Warren supporters. I'm extremely online though so it's hard to tell.

# ¿ Feb 3, 2020 06:40

MSDOS KAPITAL: Jun 25, 2018

Paradoxish posted:

Bernie is probably done if he can't win Iowa and NH. I know this thread is super optimistic and I'm not trying to be a downer, but it's the only way he keeps his momentum. The media is going to pile on if he can't carry those two states, especially since Nevada is problematic and SC probably isn't happening for him. It's gotta be today and next Tuesday or we're hosed. No point in being unrealistic about what needs to happen.

That's overstating it a bit IMO. Second in Iowa and first in NH, and he's still in it on Super Tues. The media attacks will carry more weight, but so far those have bounced off or even helped him. Then again that could easily change once voting has actually started. Losing the single state of Iowa, even with all the attention on it and even with it going first, isn't quite enough to throw in the towel.

# ¿ Feb 3, 2020 06:47

MSDOS KAPITAL: Jun 25, 2018

Kraftwerk posted:

If losing Iowa doesn�t matter that much, what does winning it get you?

If you're already winning, then now you're winning more? Winning it is much, much better than losing it, as it will shut up electability concern trolling in the media (haha, I kid, it will not shut them up, but they will lose steam), more delegates of course, and people who like voting for a winner are now free to vote for the winner. Losing it means you don't get those things, which are all really nice things to have in a primary where the entire party apparatus is dead set against you getting the nom and the capitalist media are pulling every trick in the book to gently caress up your image in the public eye. But, losing it doesn't mean that it's over, just that it's going to be harder. And remember that even Bernie not getting the nom isn't the end of all things, just the end of electoral politics as a viable path to the change we need if we're going to preserve something like global human civilization going forward.

# ¿ Feb 3, 2020 07:18

MSDOS KAPITAL: Jun 25, 2018

Electric Bugaloo posted:

DONATE LOSER

Yeah I tossed in another $27 around the same time I made that post.

# ¿ Feb 3, 2020 08:14

MSDOS KAPITAL: Jun 25, 2018

ArbitraryC posted:

The focus on the first state of a primary really feels like a shortcoming of the general process. I've read a couple pieces around online that are basically "why iowa, well why not iowa?" but they all seem to propose the only possible solution is simply picking a different fixed order. The entire argument is "if not iowa, then who else". And it's like I dunno, we don't do it state by state in the full on election, clearly there are other hypothetical ways to do it.

Maybe I'm just a tad bitter cause I'm in WA and our primary might as well not exist but it's like drat how has this not been addressed? If state by state is necessary, do a lottery, if not, do it at once, current system blows.

If we have to stick to a stupid primary system at all the party should be the one determining the order and they should be determining it on criteria from the previous election.

Better still to just shitcan primaries altogether, but with our political system as it is, they're kind of necessary. We need a new Constitution.

# ¿ Feb 3, 2020 08:17

MSDOS KAPITAL: Jun 25, 2018

Ms Adequate posted:

This is from earlier but as a Brit, the UK left got truly heartbroken by the last election for various reasons, it's not that we think the situations are comparable as such, but that we've been super badly hurt.

That's not to defend people going "lol this is going to be another Corbyn suckers" but just us morose and fearful UK goons.

bernie's gonna win and we're gonna roll up all our covert ops for loving with latin american leftists and redirect all that poo poo at right wingers in europe (and the uk)

# ¿ Feb 3, 2020 21:58

MSDOS KAPITAL: Jun 25, 2018

sexpig by night posted:

did anyone freak out?

I made a few posts. I suppose it can qualify as a freakout :ohdear:

# ¿ Feb 4, 2020 00:17

MSDOS KAPITAL: Jun 25, 2018

Skex posted:

From a strategic standpoint Sanders and Warren coming out as the leading candidates in this race is the best outcome, because it will represent a realignment of the electorate and will force the moderates to move left.

Ultimately who is President matters less than where the center of gravity of the party lands, if the moderates have to move to Warren in order to counter Bernie that weakens the moderates and conservatives in the party. It also sends the message to those who have sympathies that lay further to the left but are afraid that don't have the support with the masses that it's safe to move to the left.

It's just like in 08 where black voters supported Clinton until it became clear that the electorate would indeed vote for a black man.

My preference is for the race to come down to Sanders vs Warren and the "centrists" and "moderates" shut out. Because that shifts the whole loving party.

The problem with this thesis is that:

Warren is a centrist.
If leader of the party, even as a losing Presidential candidate, she will successfully push to pack the DNC and other orgs with centrist establishment shitheels.
Centrist establishment shitheels don't care what progressives think and will not share power even if that means the death of the party, which it eventually will.
The death of the Democratic party will be armageddon for the establishment, of course, but also really bad for progressives in the short and medium terms, as will the process of that death (which we may be witnessing even now).

It really is Bernie or bust.

e: vvv yeah this. I should have just typed this instead of all that other poo poo.

MSDOS KAPITAL fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Feb 4, 2020

# ¿ Feb 4, 2020 00:46

MSDOS KAPITAL: Jun 25, 2018

AhhYes posted:

This sure is a take.

he's right

# ¿ Feb 4, 2020 01:19

MSDOS KAPITAL: Jun 25, 2018

Skex posted:

You are wrong, but it doesn't actually matter, the narrative is that she is a leftist, the perception is that she is a leftist so her support is leftist whether purists like you believe that she is or not is irrelevant.

I already addressed this, and you're wrong. The reason you're wrong is that you have failed to account for the possibility that a Warren win, no matter how leftist her supporters may or may not be, will ensure that establishment Dems remain dominant in all the important party apparatuses. Because a sitting President has enormous influence over that process and Warren absolutely will not back the progressive wing to the detriment of the establishment one. And the establishment wing will watch the party wither and die before they share power. They would rather control a rump party than be in the back seat of a massively successful one.

Now, it may be that Sanders would have a brief window after the hypothetical election where Warren loses, to disrupt the establishment stranglehold on the party. That's a big maybe and he was only partly successful last time - he would probably be less successful next time. But if she wins, that's out the window, and it'll basically be 2008 all over again where leftists and leftist organizations are sidelined, the establishment tightens their grip on the party, we bleed at the state level, and probably lose the Presidency too in four years.

# ¿ Feb 4, 2020 02:28

MSDOS KAPITAL: Jun 25, 2018

If I'm reading these results right it's time for the US government to support a fascist coup in Iowa.

# ¿ Feb 4, 2020 04:53

MSDOS KAPITAL: Jun 25, 2018

DynamicSloth posted:

He's just the 2020 model of John Edwards. A reasonably charismatic local politician can put on a reasonable Iowa campaign just by being willing to live there for a year while bigger campaigns have to worry about other problems like organizing in other states.

"reasonably charismatic"

# ¿ Feb 4, 2020 05:41

MSDOS KAPITAL: Jun 25, 2018

berno's at the podium

# ¿ Feb 4, 2020 05:44

MSDOS KAPITAL: Jun 25, 2018

https://www.pscp.tv/w/1ynJOpQLvYWxR

# ¿ Feb 4, 2020 05:44

MSDOS KAPITAL: Jun 25, 2018

Bernie is basically talking like he won.

# ¿ Feb 4, 2020 05:46

MSDOS KAPITAL: Jun 25, 2018

King of Solomon posted:

Sounds like it's going to be really cathartic when we finally get to see the results, based on this speech.

Yeah it's going to be really something. Hopefully cathartic.

# ¿ Feb 4, 2020 05:50

MSDOS KAPITAL: Jun 25, 2018

Trabisnikof posted:

Which attacks do you think they will use that will be effective?

shitposts, and lots of 'em

# ¿ Feb 4, 2020 05:56

MSDOS KAPITAL: Jun 25, 2018

dead gay comedy forums posted:

Uncle Sam would have boots on the ground by now if Iowa was in Latin America, is that right

don't steal my jokes

# ¿ Feb 4, 2020 05:58

MSDOS KAPITAL: Jun 25, 2018

reminder that the people loving up this caucus are the same ones telling laid-off coal miners or whatever that they should learn to code

# ¿ Feb 4, 2020 06:00

MSDOS KAPITAL: Jun 25, 2018

Pick posted:

That is pretty funny

I'll be here all night, apparently

# ¿ Feb 4, 2020 06:02

MSDOS KAPITAL: Jun 25, 2018

Potato Salad posted:

Can somebody give me a TLDR

https://twitter.com/ebruenig/status/1224556524925788160

# ¿ Feb 4, 2020 06:48

MSDOS KAPITAL: Jun 25, 2018

no idea what FITN is but that guy sounds pissed

e: I got it, thanks

MSDOS KAPITAL fucked around with this message at 07:20 on Feb 4, 2020

# ¿ Feb 4, 2020 07:12

MSDOS KAPITAL: Jun 25, 2018

Sanguinia posted:

I'm not going to lie, this disaster has me really afraid. This could rip open every wound in the Dem party base, and if Pete or anyone else tries to stoke that for an edge it could lead to the kind of primary that leaves the losers so bitter they ACTUALLY stay home.

If Bernie doesn't win it I'm leaving the top of my ballot blank.

# ¿ Feb 4, 2020 08:36

MSDOS KAPITAL: Jun 25, 2018

joepinetree posted:

1- If this had happened in any other country, or if this had happened in the republican primaries, everyone would have been absolutely certain that wrongdoing was involved.

So, already everyone is absolutely certain that wrongdoing was involved. Everyone who isn't already a committed Democrat, thinks this is rigged.

When you say like, "if this were X, or Y, or Z, and not us, then we would think A" you can bet that X, Y, and Z think A.

# ¿ Feb 4, 2020 08:41

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ May 15, 2024 20:12

MSDOS KAPITAL: Jun 25, 2018

Built 4 Cuban Linux posted:

On the bright side: Sanders is still leading the betting markets, up to an all time high of 38%. Probably would have a bigger bounce if they didn�t gently caress this up. Biden is down from 30 to 18 and still in second place. Pete�s up a bunch

Now Bernie is the lone front runner and Biden is gonna collapse.

Not only that, but if your narrative is "the Democrats loving suck" and all the lanyards have been able to do is squeal "you're not even a DEMOCRAT" for the last year, well... tonight was a pretty good night, I guess. Could be worse.

# ¿ Feb 4, 2020 08:43

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Dem Presidential Primary 2020: Bernie dropped out, all hail nominee Biden

«‹›11 »