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twoday posted:Imagine being some EU bureaucrat having to negotiate any kind of deal with Britain in the coming year I don’t know, I think seeing the realisation slowly dawn on the UK negotiators that this isn’t going to be “the easiest negotiation ever” and that their position is actually very weak could be quite enjoyable. As for Brexit being a disaster, don’t forget that Dear Leader is in favour of it.
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Feb 2, 2020 11:24
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Jose posted:You're making the mistake of thinking they a) want a deal and b) therefore care about anything other than looking strong at home I think they do want a deal because they still look after business interests to a degree, but that may well conflict with your b, which is also a powerful factor. I think when it comes to China and the US we are going to be absolutely shafted.
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Feb 2, 2020 11:35
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Purple Prince posted:I highly doubt that the negotiators think it's going to be easy given they will all be career diplomats. absolutely.
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Feb 2, 2020 12:03
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Private Speech posted:I 'like' (scare quotes b/c seriously wtf) how BBC linked the recent attack in Germany with accepting refugees from the middle east That’s not what the article is saying. it’s correct that fear of immigrants has been exploited and that there is resentment. that resentment can’t be addressed and changed if it isn’t acknowledged. labour made the same mistake in the UK for a long time of dismissing fears and resentment about immigrants just as racism, which prevented it from properly grappling with those feelings and presenting a proper alternative argument.
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Feb 23, 2020 23:51
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One of the few silver linings to CumGate is that some of the people who voted Tory because they actually liked BoJo will now see what an irredeemable sack of poo poo he actually is. And he has finally managed to unite the country!
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May 27, 2020 23:01
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The Peake interview made an untrue association between Israel and George Floyd’s death, which even Amnesty has said is incorrect. Wrongly associating Israel with an act for which it has absolutely no responsibility is not legitimate criticism of Israel and Zionism. So why make the connection? RLB knew that AS was a sensitive issue and she hasn’t even properly apologised (unlike Peake). I broadly agree with the Freedland article. Starmer is now ahead of Johnson in polling. God forbid we sacrifice some ideological purity for actually winning an election.
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Jun 28, 2020 16:08
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Jose posted:Stfu I’m sorry I posted something you disagree with, in response to other posters. I’m just still staggered by how much denialism there is of AS as an issue within Labour, despite even the leaked report confirming it. The point about elections being a long time away is sadly a good one. My concern is that by the next GE this government’s appalling (that word isn’t strong enough) handling of Covid will be somewhat forgotten. FWIW, this Johnson government is even worse than I feared. As for Priti Patel, it seems like the primary qualification for Tory Home Secretary is a near-pathological lack of empathy. therattle has issued a correction as of 16:35 on Jun 28, 2020 |
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Jun 28, 2020 16:30
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Samovar posted:I too read that article from the New Statesman. To which I will reply with this: I didn’t read that article. I didn’t deny that Israelis have trained US police. But they didn’t train the police who killed George Floyd, or teach them that restraint. There is no connection between Israel and George Floyd. So why make one? (And in RLB’s case, then refuse to withdraw it)? What a stupid hill to die on. https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-did-israeli-secret-service-teach-floyd-police-to-kneel-on-neck It’s not like American police need lessons in brutal violent racist tactics.
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Jun 28, 2020 16:53
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Doc Hawkins posted:Policing is occupation. Robert Peel invented it based on his experiences in Ireland, and modern techniques were and are pioneered and field-tested in the open-air prisons of Gaza and the West Bank. Yeah, like I said, I don’t think US police need training in brutal violent tactics. I’m pretty sure they used them in the years before 1967. And I am pretty sure that knee-to-neck was used prior to that too. Why are you so determined to link this to Israel? I actually don’t mind RLB. And poo poo like this is really depressing OhFunny posted:https://twitter.com/ronanburtenshaw/status/1276877047445495809?s=19 As if Covid hadn’t underlined the importance of unions. therattle has issued a correction as of 17:36 on Jun 28, 2020 |
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Jun 28, 2020 17:27
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Dravs posted:The green party exists and will never be in a position to do anything thanks to fptp. Wholly agree. I also think that Reeves should have been sacked or should have at least immediately apologised about Astor. It’s a clear double standard. Doc Hawkins posted:The struggle is singular. Why are you so determined to divide it? therattle has issued a correction as of 19:41 on Jun 28, 2020 |
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Jun 28, 2020 19:00
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OrthoTrot posted:This is a really good twitter thread about why Peakes claim is antisemitic, probably unknowingly: I’m sure it’s unknowingly. It usually is. And when it’s pointed out, some people recognise it and apologise, and others double down (often complaining that they aren’t allowed to criticise Israel). Nandy is calling for sanctions over annexation. Annexation is wholly wrong morally, legally and pragmatically. I am not entirely sure about sanctions (haven’t done enough reading) but her call is certainly not AS.
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Jun 28, 2020 20:06
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Nonsense posted:DTI DTI?
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Jun 28, 2020 20:16
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Nonsense posted:Destruction to Israel. I looked it up. It’s not Dept of Trade and Industry or Debt to Interest ratio. In this context it’s apparently Death to Israel, which I suspect you know but we’re too cowardly to actually write when asked. Why is that?
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Jun 28, 2020 20:25
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Nonsense posted:Because it is a criminal settler state bent on the genocide of the Palestinians, and plenty of Israeli's oppose this terrorism perpetrated on their fellow citizens. Yes, I oppose it too. I believe in Israel's right to exist, but I cannot stand the current government, hate Netanyahu, and think annexation is deeply wrong. I am sure that everyone here gets equally worked up about Saudi Arabia (my personal fave), Sri Lanka, Brazil, Russia, Syria, etc, right? I see people writing "Death to Saudi Arabia!" all the time. And Australia too, for that matter. Continuity RCP posted:hello my name is therattle and i love colonial states and want to kiss them on the lips Believe it or not I don't really value the opinion of someone who believes a spectacularly discredited ideology. Let me guess, it just hasn't been implemented properly yet? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 28, 2020 21:33
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mortons stork posted:lol my dude the examples of people with correct takes on genocide and apartheid being whatabouted into irrelevance as a discursive tactic not to talk about genocide or apartheid was just a few posts behind you, itd be real funny if that were to be the exact argument you chose to break into this particular discussion I wasn’t whataboutering. There was no excusing Israel’s wrongs by saying that others were worse. But it’s maybe valid to ask why there is so much focus on Israel (but not other countries) that it get introduced into discussions where there is no connection. The left is obsessed with it. But yes, I’ll gently caress off now as I’m disrupting the echo chamber.
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Jun 28, 2020 22:33
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Serious question. As you can probably tell, I mostly read the Guardian, and generally agree with its positions. I won't read any other mainstream papers as they are too right-wing. (The Guardian is probably too right for most posters here). I am looking for writing on news and politics that is left of the Guardian, but not TOO far left, as that starts getting into a mindset that I can't relate to (as illustrated nicely by my interactions here). I look at The Canary every now and again, but it feels to me like the left equivalent of Breitbart, full of polemic and manufactured outrage. So what do you all read? And since I am still here Avirosb posted:Discredited by the kind of people who vote for a reality TV host and Brexit. I was thinking more about the few remaining countries which still practice communism, or a form of it, compared to those which have tried it (most of which ended rather badly). None of them allow much political freedom or dissent. Draw your own conclusions. Capitalism has serious problems and is unsustainable, but I don't believe that communism is a viable alternative. Shogi posted:We’re talking about a cabinet minister being sacked for complimenting an actress and linking to her interview, containing one offhand line about Israel. If this kind of tangential, overwrought bullshit is enough to sack a politician then you can justify the removal of anyone less than 100% forensic. Which of course is the point. Is anyone but the left held to such lofty standards? She was given the chance to retract and apologise, and didn't. (I have no idea why; what did she think would happen?). I think that's what did for her - plus a context where Starmer had to show ruthlessness and decisiveness.
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Jun 28, 2020 23:11
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Doc Hawkins posted:And this is an attempt to avoid answering my direct question. What do you think is gained by separating each recognizable form of oppression into it's own little cubby? Some of us are opposed to all, and can see the connections between them quite easily. The ongoing genocides in Gaza and Chicago are both conducted with the same strategies, equipment, racist justifications, and they are conducted at the orders of the same people: the ruling class of the United States. You're right about systemic linkages. But is is not relevant to the facts in this case: there was an assertion made which was untrue. Pointing out that Israeli and American violence are both manifestations of the same system doesn't make it true that the cops who killed George Floyd were trained by Israel. That was not the point that Maz=xine Peake was making. endlessmonotony posted:This is C-SPAM not D&D stop falling for the lovely troll. I've just read the rules again and actually yes, it looks like I should be posting more in D&D than C-SPAM. It's hard to post a comment or two and not get drawn into debate though. Given that my viewpoint seems to differ from the majority, I probably shouldn't post here as it will just result in argument, which doesn't seem to be the point of this sub-forum. (Although I am not 100% clear on what the point is then). I would be open to reading some different perspectives on politics though.
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Jun 28, 2020 23:31
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:Feel free to disregard the below post if you do not want to read a response to therattle. Thanks for this. I never go to D&D, so I assumed that C-SPAM was the political sub-forum for D&D, and this was the UK politics thread. And I didn't read the rules... So I blundered into what is basically a friendly conversation, looking for an argument. I got probated, and fairly. I apologise. Jose posted:To answer this seriously and since i just linked an open democracy article they have a lot of good stuff. Check out this david graeber piece about antisemitism Thanks, appreciated. I read The Daily Maverick every now and again, but not Open Democracy. I will check it out. Darth Walrus posted:He was specifically referring to the Canary, who are pretty journalistically shoddy as I recall. Yes, I was referring specifically to The Canary. If you scan their headlines the language is turned up to 11*, and I don't think the writing is very good - highly emotive and more polemical than analytical. Continuity RCP posted:Something that doesn't inconvenience him or raise any taxes Nope. I would happily pay more tax. I think middle and especially high earners should pay more tax, and I am incensed by the global system that allows corporates to legally avoid tax by eg transfer pricing, licensing of IP, off-shoring, etc. It transfers wealth from the public to the private sphere and exacerbates inequality. It's grotesque, but for all the noises about ending it, I think that a lot og governments (especially ours, beholden to corporate interests as it is) have no real interest in changing it V. Illych L. posted:love to not even try to engage with protest sentiment Agreed. It's depressing, and not particularly astute. therattle has issued a correction as of 09:16 on Jun 30, 2020 |
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Jun 30, 2020 09:11
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oliwan posted:jesus christ oliwan posted:jesus christ moan all you want about KS but anything is better than this sack of poo poo and his ilk. Edit: meaning Johnson, not oliwan!
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Jun 30, 2020 12:30
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Communist Thoughts posted:Dunno if you're already gone, and you'd probably disregard my opinion for my username anyway but the guardian is not a left or left of centre paper and hasn't been for a while. its pretty much the telegraph now. it used to be crap at domestic issues but good at foreign issues then the gov smashed up its computers over snowden and forced it onto the d-notice council so now its crap at foreign issues too. Thanks for taking the time to write this. I am sticking around, because I can learn something (but I am reading more and arguing less). Jose pointed me in the direction of Open Democracy, which seems pretty excellent. I will check out the DnD thread when I have time. (I occasionally see Telegraph articles (without bringing myself to actually finish them), and while I can imagine you don't think there is much difference between it and the Guardian, hoo boy... the poo poo it peddles is quite something) My only thought about Starmer making statements about nukes, the armed forces, etc is that he saw what the press threw at Corbyn and of that what stuck with the public, and is pre-emptively insulating himself against those attacks. Whether he actually believes what he says remains to be seen. I still think he is preferable to Johnson et al.
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Jul 1, 2020 16:39
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MikeCrotch posted:The problem with saying Starmer would be better that Johnson is he has given literally no reason why. Like he has not laid out any of the things he would do in office, and has given lots of reasons why leftists should not have any faith in him I just did a quick search for “Starmer policies” and got this: https://keirstarmer.com/plans/10-pledges/ It remains to be seen whether these pledges were just positioning to win the leadership, or what he’s saying now is to reposition the party with voters who left. Who/what he really is will only be clear if he wins an election, I suppose. One can hope (perhaps naively).
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Jul 1, 2020 22:42
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Dravs posted:This is dumb, I know fptp fucks up our electoral process but the green party still exists. A higher % of the vote share means they will devote more funding to your area in the future. They are anti-capitalist and eco-socialist. It's not a coincidence that a lot of their policies that get derided often end up in the manifestos of the main parties 6 months after the fact. I’m in a safe Labour seat and sometimes vote Green. Plus government funding for political parties is based on votes, not seats.
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Jul 3, 2020 12:01
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NGC773 posted:Yes, hyperinflation was deliberately caused. That doesn't mean that printing money is an easy way out to spend more. Printing money excessively will cause more issues than problems it solves. I for one am very pleased that you are posting here. It means I'm no longer the worst poster. Also, your tactical concession that the government could have done things better, or made mistakes, grossly understates the problem. They hosed up massively. That is why we are exiting lockdown later than anyone else, and in a chaotic, disorganised way. (Phased reopening my arse). Oh, with more deaths than any other country in Europe, and I think 3rd highest in the world? (I haven't checked latest figures, Brazil and US are probably ahead now). Others have already made the arguments about the government's handling of the pandemic. I did something similar to you a few weeks ago - came in guns blazing, looking for an argument, and got shot down and insulted. This is not, as I soon realised, just the politics sub-forum of D&D (which I never visit). This is a more relaxed, chattier thread/sub-forum, so you are either in the wrong place by accident, or being provocative. I had also realised prior to that (but my experience here reinforced it) that I was not getting a broad enough perspective on politics and current events. Reading a broader range of perspectives will help you. As will acknowledging facts when presented to you. Oh, one more thing! The current woeful status of the UK welfare system being a first-world problem? Yes, well, we do live in the first world.
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Jul 7, 2020 15:29
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crispix posted:They're only going to explain to you entirely in the abstract the concepts of demand, free goods and surplus income Osborne, Cameron, IDS and every other Tory who voted for and implemented austerity have blood on their hands.
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Jul 7, 2020 15:35
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Crane Fist posted:Bad posting isn't a zero sum game lad I don’t think you understand what a zero sum game is. 
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Jul 8, 2020 09:46
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A vaguely related post: governments always make announcements about big infrastructure projects, but one gets massively better bang for buck by investing n maintenance of existing infrastructure rather than building new. It doesn't make for such good headlines though, so there is no chance of it happening here. Hey, Jose, the Daily Maverick article about the Guardian was very good, thanks. And Open Democracy is excellent. I don't agree with everything I have read there but it's thought-provoking, and well-written.
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Jul 8, 2020 12:57
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Dreylad posted:im sorry, im a uk politics neophyte but I sometimes think the government has handled the pandemic so badly on purpose as a way of managing the social care crisis.
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Jul 9, 2020 08:36
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Communist Thoughts posted:its such an astonishingly good return on investment you'd be negligent to not bribe politicians in the UK Jenrick’s even better bang for the buck.
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Jul 14, 2020 14:43
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Grayling losing the chair of the Intelligence committee is delightful. The whole affair is simply splendid. https://twitter.com/stigabell/status/1283460840059002885?s=21
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Jul 16, 2020 00:32
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V. Illych L. posted:wait what they hosed up getting him in a position to gently caress up? is there a decent writeup about this somewhere? This summarises the whole delightful episode pretty well https://www.theweek.co.uk/107539/chris-grayling-intelligence-committee-coup It's beautiful.
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Jul 16, 2020 19:12
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i say swears online posted:thanks for that Oh, it’s my pleasure.
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Jul 16, 2020 19:48
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What I’m always baffled by are quotes referring to his supporters. Who in gently caress supports Chris Grayling? I think they put him in the cabinet just to make everyone else look good in comparison.
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Jul 17, 2020 12:13
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This is the kind of tweet one hopes to see in the Schadenfreude thread where it’s followed by “I’m now in ICU with Covid, pray for me”
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Jul 19, 2020 14:30
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MikeCrotch posted:The antivaxx ones where its "little Marcie is in heaven now, she had measles but we stayed strong and didn't give her the jab, tell us we did the right thing" are the grimmest thing Those are awful because the child paid for their idiocy. Private Speech posted:The interesting thing about vaccines is that there is an odd conflict between concrete and potential risk even among well-informed people. Which humans are notoriously bad at evaluating. They are also tremendously selfish as they rely on the herd immunity created by other people having their kids vaccinated. anti-vaxxers absolutely incense me.
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Jul 19, 2020 15:53
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Clearly not “keep Britain free of coronavirus”.
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Jul 20, 2020 13:36
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quote:The father-of-two is also accused of groping a woman in her 30s before chasing her around his central London home chanting “I’m a naughty Tory” in 2007. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jul/20/ex-mp-charlie-elphicke-admits-lying-police-sexual-assault-case?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
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Jul 20, 2020 23:58
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The whole issue of Panorama and sabotage etc seems pretty muddy to me. I read the OpenDemocracy piece here https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/were-labours-antisemitism-failures-really-corbyns-fault/ which is persuasive, but the responses are too https://dochub.com/adam-ramsay-dp431t/Dbd3xkWVepxeXp6K49AYlz/letter-to-j-schlosberg-ware-090620-1-pdf?dt=Z4FCLgJxv7ytnT8j1bdz https://dochub.com/adam-ramsay-dp431t/dbnaAMqK9YLaEbvKGNXJm0/letter-to-j-schlosberg-matthews-090620-1-pdf?dt=on1bxf1ArYDsyqs12KXH https://dochub.com/adam-ramsay-dp431t/P0B76b3K6x2b4v1wn2y1Gg/letter-to-j-schlosberg-hogan-090620-1-pdf?dt=cdSXUkYMLGUGezg8z4xD It's a mess, and I really don't know what to think. If anyone was actively sabotaging the party and the 2017 election campaign they should be immediately dismissed from employment by the party and expelled. I can see the reasoning to settle: avoid a potentially damaging court case (which the media would have made a circus out of) and damages and legal fees, and draw a line under the whole thing. But if the party would have won (and it doesn't seem cut and dried either way), then it does look politically motivated rather than sensible. I always thought that if the removal of RLB was not political then he should have replaced her with a Corbynite, so who knows. (You, you all do, I am not sure).
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Jul 22, 2020 18:19
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Dr. Kyle Farnsworth posted:"If the Russians are spying on us, we will simply ask them to tell us who the spies are. Bing bong, so simple." I heard this on the radio. Laughable. I doubt we need more laws about this - just the will to enforce those we have.
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Jul 22, 2020 22:49
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We are in the forefront, as in, this is where most of the fighting has had to occur.
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Jul 23, 2020 23:55
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V. Illych L. posted:peter oborne, noted conservative, has been writing fairly extensively on this, e.g. here: Thanks. I had read the first opendemocracy article you linked, but also the rebuttals that were posted at the end, and it all paints a pretty muddy picture (at least to me). The second article doesn't add much to what I already knew. It is accompanied by this https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/how-top-labour-officials-plotted-bring-down-corbyn but the rebuttals to the opendemocracy article cast quite a lot of doubt on the validity of a number of the allegations in the leaked report. So it's still unclear. As for the leaked report, quite a lot of people on the left who are happy to take the allegations about sabotage, factionalism etc at face value seem to ignore the report's conclusions about the prevalence of AS in the party. The one thing that I have become aware of recently is quite how hostile the Guardian was to Corbyn. I had thought that as a leftwing (?) paper it would be broadly sympathetic to Labour and that if it was not, there were good reasons for it. Reasons, yes, good ones, now not so sure. That said, it hasn't massively changed my view of him as a politician, and while I never thought that he was antisemitic personally, I still think he handled it badly (regardless of interference from within the party - it took him years to acknowledge the issue), and if not antisemitic himself, he certainly has a whole lot of AS friends, and a bit of a blind spot about AS on the left. Despite all that, I would choose Corbyn over Bojo and the Tories in a heartbeat, and I am staggered that there even MAY have been people in Labour who were sabotaging elections, knowing that a Tory government would result.
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Jul 24, 2020 18:15
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