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Who will you vote for in 2020? This poll is closed. |
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|---|---|---|---|
| Biden |
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425 | 18.06% |
| Trump |
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105 | 4.46% |
| whoever the Green Party runs |
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307 | 13.05% |
| GOOGLE RON PAUL |
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151 | 6.42% |
| Bernie Sanders |
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346 | 14.70% |
| Stalin |
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246 | 10.45% |
| Satan |
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300 | 12.75% |
| Nobody |
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202 | 8.58% |
| Jess Scarane |
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110 | 4.67% |
| mystery man Brian Carroll of the American Solidarity Party |
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61 | 2.59% |
| Dick Nixon |
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100 | 4.25% |
| Total: | 2089 votes | ||
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Timeless Appeal posted:I don't vote for Biden and I'm complicit in electing a rapist That's not how this works. The only people complicit in electing someone are the people who voted for that person, the people organizing that person's campaign, and the people who maintained the system that let them there. If you don't vote for Trump and Trump wins, you're not responsible for Trump. Anyone who says that "If you don't vote for Biden, you're voting for Trump" fundamentally misunderstands the way things work in both a political and moral way.
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Jul 27, 2020 18:19
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Timeless Appeal posted:But I think it's ridiculous to then also pretend there is no consequence to the choice of not voting. If you don't vote for Biden--especially if you live in a competiive state--you are making a choice that contributes to Trump getting a higher percentage of your state's popular vote. Lol that's dumb as hell. Millions of people are gonna cast their vote regardless of what you do. Your vote doe snot amgically influence theirs. If Trump wins it has nothing to do with your individual vote. To try and put the blame on people for not voting Biden is part of the stupid American philosophy or recasting everything as individual choice and responsibility. This dumb election already has made your vote pointless in a hundred different ways before you even get to the polls. Who you vote or do not vote for is your choice and does not make you responsible for the choices of others. If Trump wins it's not because one dumbass decided he didn't want to vote for a loving rapist. It's because of the campaign, the media, the supporters, the other guys' campaign and supporters, the vote suppression, the courts, etc.
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Jul 27, 2020 19:36
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Raenir Salazar posted:Covid for one. He nearly got the US into a war with Iran which almost certainly would have involved Canada. Among innumerable other reasons that are important but I feel have been debated to death. Trump de-escalated with Iran because he was afraid of civilian casualties, something no other Democrat or Republican would have done. Trump is a piece of poo poo racist rapist but he's somehow better on war with Iran than most politicians. It boggles the mind.
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Jul 27, 2020 19:38
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Timeless Appeal posted:But I do dismiss the idea that choosing to not vote when you could have or voting third party when you're not doing anything else to advance that party outside of ceremonial support every four years does not help Trump. Of course it does, even if it's tiny and incremental. It doesn't make you a monster, but reality is reality. There is a Trump vote that mattered more because you did not cancel it out. If you could have voted, your decision not to or vote third party helped Trump. Dismiss the idea all you want, you're still obviously wrong. Now get over it. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 27, 2020 20:57
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ColonelMuttonchops posted:Because we need to Restore the Soul of America™. Which is, uhh, zionism apparently. Well, considering what America did to the natives, it's accurate.
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Jul 28, 2020 03:27
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Lol are there still non-libs who support voting for Biden? The Democratic Party will kill itself trying to appeal to the Professional-Managerial Class and discarding the Working Class as much as possible.
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Aug 1, 2020 05:49
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:That's because that literally happened. The modern history of the Democratic party - up until 2008 or so, when it started realigning leftwards again - is the history of the Reagan Democrats, of Bill Clinton, of the DLC and of the New Democrats. The Democratic coalition fell apart in the 80s as liberal candidates suffered shocking electoral defeats and as conservative and moderate whites increasingly migrated to the Republicans as part of the Southern Strategy & the Great Realignment. In this new reality - the Boomer reality - liberal candidates simply could not assemble a broad enough coalition to win nationwide. The Democratic party largely stumbled on purely on inertia and the advantage of incumbency. Large parts of the Democratic party have wanted to move right, to abandon the working class to instead cater to the Professional class, and have used every defeat to argue for this, no matter how true or untrue this was. This isn't a conspiracy theory: we've got 50 years of their own words to prove it. Every time they'd present a boring neoliberal and lsoe, they'd say he was too lefty and go harder right. Every time they won, they'd HAPPILY proclaim the end of the New Deal and the dawn of a new age. So the rot is old is what I'm saying.
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Aug 3, 2020 04:40
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Pentecoastal Elites posted:Not everything is about an economic theory, right? I too remember that really dumb quote from Hillary.
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Aug 3, 2020 19:16
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Rainbow Knight posted:i mean, it's at least a common belief. especially since class consciousness is so far removed from the conversation. We've been trained our entire life to see reality a certain way and it's not easy to get out of that bullshit. Grats on being good with words to explain that to people. 
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Aug 3, 2020 21:52
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poo poo. so i tried something: i argued that she wasn't racist. i pointed out that a lot of rich white people are prejudiced against the homeless in the area. i talked to her about the idea of "white trash." i pointed out that i'm her favorite person in the store in spite of my ancestry. she understood, and i think came out of the conversation with racism being a class problem as something to ponder.
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The thing about voting for your material self-interest is that neither Major parties represent anyone's material self-interest. So people vote for culture war bullshit because it's literally the only thing on the ballot.
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Aug 4, 2020 21:01
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Things that are inarguably true: 1) Joe Biden's brain is declining faster than Trump's. 2) Biden raped Tara Reade 3) The Democratic establishment, including Obama, ratfucked the entire primary in extremely obvious ways to get Biden on the ticket 4) Biden's politics are terrible, barely 5% to the left of Trump 5) Obama built the concentration camps 6) Trump is technically worse, when looking through a magnifying glass because they are so loving close to each other This is a poo poo show. America is dying. Neither party is going to govern anywhere near competently or humanely enough. The only chance left is to destroy the Democratic party enough that an actual good candidate can win in 2024. It's time to Whig those fuckers.
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Aug 5, 2020 21:31
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We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal and endowed by the Creator with these inalienable rights: the rights to freedom, justice and the pursuit of happyness. Off the top of my head so probably wrong in parts, but enough not to be diagnosed with dementia. Like Biden obviously has.
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Aug 5, 2020 21:40
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Biden has always been a huge racist, no need to try and reframe his racist comments.
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Aug 6, 2020 20:58
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plogo posted:Ironically, Bill Clinton actually tacked to the left for a lot of the 1992 primary, despite developing his whole career around being a new democrat, because Pete Tsongas sucked up the centrist air in that primary. Bill won with a populist message and then backtracked immediately in pwoer. Obama 16 years before.
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Aug 7, 2020 01:56
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Mellow Seas posted:Biden has made real efforts to at least appear to be moving left on domestic policy, Citation loving Needed.
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Aug 7, 2020 19:31
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Mellow Seas posted:“Real efforts to at least appear” is not a high, or adequate, standard, but Biden has met it. His outreach to Bernie and AOC, moving carbon goal to 2035, etc have been clear attempts to appear more palatable to the left. I’m not saying he’s going to actually do any of that poo poo but he’s made it part of his messaging, which he has not even attempted to do on FP. He didn't do any actual outreach, and his team has been poo poo-talking anyone to the left of Reagan. He has made zero attempts to appeal to the left, and in fact it has been made clear that the Dems want the left crushed and obedient.
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Aug 7, 2020 21:22
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If it really is Harris, there should be no question that the Democrats are controlled opposition and are throwing the election.
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Aug 8, 2020 14:46
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Ershalim posted:It's not crazy to have Kasich hang out and talk up unity since that's what the squishy middle of the country wants. Lol. Edit: The middle does not exist and has not existed for a long time. It's a myth perpretated by the media and lanyards to convicne people that shifting to the right isn't dumb.
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Aug 10, 2020 04:45
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Fritz Coldcockin posted:If you are getting this impression from current events then you are purposefully deciding something that completely contradicts current events. I really do not know how you look at Biden v. Trump right now and decide "THE DUMMYCRAPS ARE THROWING THE ELECTION Well, they sabotaged their own primary in super obvious ways to put Joe Biden as their nominee. Then they told the passionate leftist base to eat poo poo and die, while throwing everything they can to convince the mythical moderate Republican to switch sides. The only way Joe is any competitive now is because of the Covid crisis.
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Aug 10, 2020 21:01
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Fritz Coldcockin posted:<citation needed> Do you not have eyes to see?
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Aug 10, 2020 21:03
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Fritz Coldcockin posted:I do. I'm just not going to pretend to see things that aren't there for the sake of manufactured outrage. Bernie lost. Maybe he wouldn't have if COVID-19 hadn't happened, maybe he wouldn't if Klob/Buttigieg/Beto/Harris hadn't simultaneously endorsed Biden right after that killshot in South Carolina--but pretending that this was some sort of "sabotage" sounds a lot like Hillary claiming that Russian interference was the sole cause of her 2016 loss. Denying the ratfuckery going on in the Democratic Primaries is some primo ignoring reality. It's up there with Flat-Earthers. There's Iowa. There's the rampant voter suppression. There's the weird exit poll discrepancies that only favoured Biden. There were the rules fuckery. There was the killing people to vote for Biden and as soon as Bernie dropped out they started paying attention to Covid. There the Centrist Voltron. There's the Warren stuff. And that's just off the top of my head. None of this was hidden. This wa sblatant and in your-face. We had weeks of coverage of Democratic establishment saying they were ready to damage the party to defeat Bernie. dn guess what, they did! By nominating Biden they ensured that the Democratic Party will not survive the next few years! They pissed off everyone who isn't a corrupt rear end in a top hat or an ignorant boomer, poisoning the party for generations. They puleld the same bullshit that caused the 68 DNC Riots! And let's not forget the fact that the party is on record as not having to run fair elections in their Primaries because they're a private corporation.
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Aug 10, 2020 21:21
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Fritz Coldcockin posted:OK, so we're up to: 2, 3 and 4 are widely documented as true. 1 is impossible to tell, but would not be any different if it were true.
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Aug 10, 2020 21:23
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Fritz Coldcockin posted:You and I have a very different idea of what "widely documented" means, because when I say it I don't mean "two assholes on Twitter with roses in their profile names". Yup, you're a Flat Earther. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 10, 2020 21:26
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Vote Green, to send a message to the Democrats that the Left can no longer be ignored and/or maybe build a viable third party 2024 run.Solaris 2.0 posted:Most of us are normal people who just don't want to live under Trump anymore and are willing take our chances under Biden seeing as how that is our only other option. You get two. Joe Biden or Donald Trump. There is no third. So you're okay with all the horrible poo poo Trump does that is just a continuation of what Obama started, you just want to go back to pretending it's not happening. Fritz Coldcockin posted:I'm not the one inventing Tom Clancy-style fanfiction to explain why Bernie Sanders lost the primaries. Please explain to me how the long list of facts that happened live are fanfiction. Oh wait you can't because you're literally denying reality to try and live in a world where the Democratic did not just tell you to eat poo poo and die. Or maybe you're jsut a rich rear end in a top hat who likes the way things worked out. Either way you're clearly a bad faith actor.
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Aug 10, 2020 21:45
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Fritz Coldcockin posted:I don't understand what you're doing here. Are you claiming that I'm lying? I listed a whole bunch of things that happened live on loving tv and were in the news for weeks. If you fell into a coma during the primary you should probably tell us this instead of claiming merely summarizing what actually happened is somehow fanfiction.
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Aug 10, 2020 21:51
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UCS Hellmaker posted:If you actively gave a poo poo about your future you'd vote for the canidates in the GE that won't proceed to cause war with Iran or have his son in law run the country and destroy a testing plan because it would benefit blue states. It's not about apathy and resentment, dumbass, it's about how the Democratic establishment sent a clear message that they would rather die than fix the mess we're in. YoU,re right about being an activist though: vote Green.
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Aug 10, 2020 22:00
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Pro-Biden people need to grow up and realize we are not living in a Saturday Morning Cartoon. Trump is not Lex Luthor. Biden is not your friend. By any metric that matters, the 2020 election IS ALREADY LOST. You are going to get completely hosed over on Healthcare, Climate Change and Racial Justice for the next four years no matter who wins. It will be, at best, a 1% difference. You have to open your eyes one day and realize the situation you're in. You can't just keep gaslighting yourself into believing everything is fine because the president now has a D next to his name. TheDeadlyShoe posted:Both Clinton and Obama had a technocratic bent and placed a premium on competence and expertise. There's no reason at all to think Biden will be different in this respect, whatever you think of him. See, this is part of the delusion. The "expertise" of the liberals turned out to be completely phony. The Ivy League are a giant grift for and by the wealthy. They all drunk the same Kool-aid and ran the country into the loving ground. Anyone who plans to vote for Biden needs to read Listen, liberal. It's such a great dissection of the Liberal mind.
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Aug 11, 2020 04:27
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enraged_camel posted:I think these types of posts are not very helpful because a presidency that might result in a 1% difference for you might result in a 50% difference for someone else. At the end of the day it completely depends on how directly and deeply you are affected by the policies of an administration. I know several DACA recipients who will take a very deep sigh of relief if Biden is elected, for example. So it is presumptions to make blanket assertions regarding "overall impact" or some other unmeasurable metric. These DACA recipient will mtake a deep sigh of relief and then still get thrown into a concentration camp by the Gestapo you dumb rear end in a top hat. THAT'S THE POINT! BIDEN SET UP THE CAMPS AND TOLD IMMIGRANT RIGHTS ACTIVISTS TO EAT poo poo! ON LIVE TV! WAKE THE gently caress UP! (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 11, 2020 04:45
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:I don't...what? Their expertise turned out to be phony? You don't just graduate from college and become Secretary of the Treasury. Obama's Cabinet had long experience in government. Meanwhile Trump's go to is.. Jared Kushner. See, that's what I'm talking about. Obama's administration turned out to be one of the most do-nothing in Americna history. Their vaunted expertise and intelligence didn't actually manifest into anything concrete: they kept making dumb and short-sighted decisions and ignoring problems just like previous administrations. They used lot of smart-sounding justifications but their expertise turned out to be... nothing. It's the same reason most economists didn't see 2008 coming and the few of did were laughed at at the time. By believing themselves to be the mos tintelligent person in the room they can convince themselves that things that are obviously untrue are true because all these other smart people also believe it. I've been looking at finding an article that explains the whole phenomenon better than me. I don know Thomas Frank covers it well enough in Listen, Liberal.
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Aug 11, 2020 14:23
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Asema posted:As a thought experiment how many judges and appointees have been put in place over the timeline of Trump's administration? That Democrats just blankly approved.
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Aug 11, 2020 14:25
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LegendaryFrog posted:More fundamentally, telling someone "you don't care about X group" because they disagree with you is bad form, even leaving aside the thousands of hours I have put in working to make our Country even a little bit more livable for that group. Don't do it. Nah, I'm still right about this. The Democrats and Republicans have been loving people over in bipartisan fashion for decades, and this includes the immigrant concentration camps. Trying to say Biden will treat immigrants better when it is patently false is a bold-faced lie. I mean Biden wasn't even willing to say he'd destroy/stop building the wall when asked about it in an interview. This is the guy we're dealing with it here. Edit: I got angry because I care about this. I care a whole lot.
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Aug 11, 2020 18:45
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I would also be willing to give a lot more credence to the idea of incremental change if the entire Obama presidency hadn't disproved that.
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Aug 11, 2020 18:53
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There is hope! I'm not doom posting. But we need to either destroy the right wing of the Demcoratic party or destroy the Democratic party entirely to have a chance at the real change needed. That's the only way you get good stuff in 2022 and 2024. Yes this means accepting four more years of Trumpo, but we are getting four more years of horrible right wing rapist racist presidency either way. Or you could have a violent revolution but I'm hoping we can do things without having to do that.
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Aug 11, 2020 20:48
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I'd like to congratulate the Democratic Party on managing to lose against Donald Trump again.
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Aug 12, 2020 17:01
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I mean Biden is seriously just Blue Trump.
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Aug 12, 2020 17:12
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The differences between Trump and Biden ar eminute and mostly aesthetic.
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Aug 12, 2020 20:47
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1GF4Gnb-D0
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Aug 13, 2020 05:27
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Vote for Howie or Gloria La Riva. It's easy.
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Aug 14, 2020 17:34
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How about the Democrat use their ressources to support massive worker action to save the post office? It’s something they could do to help. They won’t because they hate workers, but they could.
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Aug 15, 2020 01:13
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copy posted:So this I think is a really important point. There is a lot more that the democratic party in general and democratic legislators in particular can do than just try to pass legislation. They have a huge platform, they have enormous resources, they have lists of names of people who are known to be down to organize stuff. We have people in the streets right now risking life and limb to protest poo poo these folks say they want. Why don't we expect them to show even one tenth the courage of the protesters in the street? Stage a sit in somewhere, lead protests to Republican congresscritters' homes, buy out restaurants out so that there is nowhere in DC that republicans can go to eat lunch until they get off their asses and help unfuck things. Yeah, that's my point. There's plenty of things they could do aside from just voting on laws, but they won't do it. Remember when Obama said he'd be on the picket lines?
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Aug 15, 2020 06:49
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