Derek Chauvin Trial Thread

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Derek Chauvin Trial Thread

zzyzx: Mar 2, 2004

Paracaidas posted:

[*]The ruling allowing Chauvin to be charged and tried with 3rd degree murder is being appealed to the state supreme court and it was improper to take any action in the trial, including jury selection, with that charge attached until the state supreme court issues a ruling.

I'd expect the more likely remedy, if the state supreme court rules that 3rd degree murder can't apply, is to vacate the 3rd-degree conviction rather than to reverse the entire thing. This would be a bigger deal if Chauvin was acquitted on the lead charge but convicted on the lower two - in that situation, if the state supreme court rules that 3rd-degree can't apply and vacates that conviction, he ends up with a significantly reduced sentence for manslaughter only. As it stands, he's still guilty of the more serious 2nd-degree charge.

quote:

The city announced its $27m settlement with the Floyd family on the eve of the trial, unfairly prejudicing the already-selected jurors and unfairly impeding Chauvin's defense.
Maxine Waters Said A Thing
Joe Biden Said A Thing
Jurors were not sequestered until deliberations, perhaps most specifically on the heels of the killing of Daunte Wright.
The trial was held in Minneapolis, with Judge Cahill denying Chauvin's request for a change of venue.

During trial, jurors are instructed to avoid outside information about their case, and the court probably assumes the jurors followed their instructions if there's no evidence otherwise. If a juror gives a tell-all interview and says he was pressured into voting guilty to avoid rioting, that's a problem; if not, public comments about the case while they're deliberating are dumb but probably don't reverse the verdict on their own.

Pre-trial publicity, and the venue objection, and the request to sequester the jury all seem like good arguments for him to make, but "how likely is he to win on X" is a pretty specialized question for lawyers who regularly do this stuff in MN.

# ? Apr 22, 2021 03:59

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# ? Apr 29, 2024 06:10

Charlz Guybon: Nov 16, 2010

Clarste posted:

The police's job is to arrest people who have committed crimes, not to stop crimes from being committed. Stopping crimes is totally optional and the equivalent of being a Good Samaritan.

Couldn't this be changed with legislation?

# ? Apr 22, 2021 04:02

Dapper_Swindler: Feb 14, 2012; Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

Kalit posted:

It'll be interesting. If the author of that reddit post is correct, it sounds like a huge uphill battle to convict those other three since they cannot use Chauvin's trial as evidence. Maybe they can plea deal everyone down enough where they'll take it.

The big question in my mind is if the state tries harder to go after Thao, who was openly antagonistic to the crowd (e.g. saying "Don't do drugs, kids"). Also, if they'll show more leniency with Lane, since he suggested twice to move Floyd to the side recovery position.

yeah Thao might be hosed. isnt their video of cops asking chauvin to let him up or some poo poo? like you can probably hit them on "you should have stopped this" type deal.

# ? Apr 22, 2021 04:09

happyhippy: Feb 21, 2005; Playing games, watching movies, owning goons. 'sup; Pillbug

Dapper_Swindler posted:

yeah Thao might be hosed. isnt their video of cops asking chauvin to let him up or some poo poo? like you can probably hit them on "you should have stopped this" type deal.

There is.
And Thao I think has a worse past history than Chauvin with complaints.

# ? Apr 22, 2021 04:31

Dapper_Swindler: Feb 14, 2012; Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

happyhippy posted:

There is.
And Thao I think has a worse past history than Chauvin with complaints.

wasnt he one of the new pigs? like i know some of them were trainees or some poo poo.

# ? Apr 22, 2021 04:32

SocketWrench: Jul 8, 2012; by Fritz the Horse

Postorder Trollet89 posted:

https://twitter.com/TheOnion/status/1384629303372095493
Goddamn.

The sad thing is I've seen the same attitude but for serious on right leaning youtube vids over the verdict. Righties are really pissed off a cop went to prison for murdering a dude

SocketWrench fucked around with this message at 06:43 on Apr 22, 2021

# ? Apr 22, 2021 05:06

SocketWrench: Jul 8, 2012; by Fritz the Horse

Alhazred posted:

I honestly think it's weird that Norwegian cops are able to stop armer assailants by shooting them In the legs while American cops are forced to always shoot to kill.

To be honest I think america has a positive feedback loop. Cops say they are justified to shoot to kill because the perp might have a gun. At the same time the people that back the cops are the same that have shitloads of guns and don't want any restrictions.

Charlz Guybon posted:

What was their justification for that one?

Likely to prevent people from suing the cops because they didn't prevent *insert crime here* as it was happening. Take this teen that got killed. If the cops rolled up and tasered her but it didn't stop her, the family of the other girl might try to sue the pigs for not stopping the crime. Basically qualified immunity from lawsuit

Kalit posted:

He was literally drawing his gun when she ran right by him. If he had grabbed her instead of drawing his gun, it could have been avoided. I queued up this video so you can see it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pjf-6xcjkbA&t=60s

I thank you for linking that, I'd only seen the stills till now. Watching the vid i can see how this plays out, I think some are putting a god level request on the cop. They showed up and had seconds to try and evaluate the situation before berserker blows past the cop to attack pink. I still think 4 bullets is excessive, but i can see why the cops really couldn't do much prior to that moment.
This was definitely a no win for the pigs. They either shoot her before she injures/kills someone and we get what we're doing here. Or he lets her injure/kill someone and everyone goes "Why didn't they do something?!" It'd be a tragedy either way

SocketWrench fucked around with this message at 05:36 on Apr 22, 2021

# ? Apr 22, 2021 05:21

SocketWrench: Jul 8, 2012; by Fritz the Horse

ryde posted:

Don't remember anything about Tamir Rice but I'm going to guess its also police just straight up murdering people because thats a reasonable default position to take these days.

I watched the vid. Kid's sitting on a bench toying with a BB gun, the cops roll up, jump out and immediately unload into him...like barely out of the car unload into him

Jaxyon posted:

I'm saying:

- Don't ever, ever, EVER trust the cops even if there's video. They never ever get the benefit of the doubt.

In this incident it would have to be deep faked video to be "cop bad". He literally gets out of his cruiser as the conflict escalates and has like 3 seconds to figure out what's going on and get things under control before the knife is heading into pink girl's throat. That's a hell of a faked video if that's not what happened and the officer that faked it should work for the movie industry

There's reasonable skepticism and then there's nutbar skepticism.

SocketWrench fucked around with this message at 05:57 on Apr 22, 2021

# ? Apr 22, 2021 05:45

Vahakyla: May 3, 2013

Charlz Guybon posted:

Couldn't this be changed with legislation?

We should not burden public agencies with duty to individuls by law. We should punish cops who don�t do their jobs, absolutely. But �police have to help people or city gets sued� either requires a cop in every house or empty coffers.
Administratively, the police, like fire, should do their best with whatever resources. And they should be held accountable by the city or public entity if they deliberately do not do a good job. It's not the fault of fire services that the building burns down, even if they don't make it there on time.

Vahakyla fucked around with this message at 05:57 on Apr 22, 2021

# ? Apr 22, 2021 05:48

reignonyourparade: Nov 15, 2012

Vahakyla posted:

We should not burden public agencies with duty to individuls by law. We should punish cops who don�t do their jobs, absolutely. But �police have to help people or city gets sued� either requires a cop in every house or empty coffers.

I don't think it's wrong to think there's potentially a point where it crosses over an unfortunate tragedy into negligence.

# ? Apr 22, 2021 05:57

Vahakyla: May 3, 2013

reignonyourparade posted:

I don't think it's wrong to think there's potentially a point where it crosses over an unfortunate tragedy into negligence.

And the cops should be fired and the mayors should do something about it. I don't think anyone disagrees with you on that.
Having that legal requirement would not change that, it would just bankrupt the town or be unenforceable in any reasonable manner.
Like, if your fire department just doesn't roll out when bells ring because they didn't feel like it, you have issues that need to be fixed.

# ? Apr 22, 2021 05:59

SocketWrench: Jul 8, 2012; by Fritz the Horse

Owlspiracy posted:

cops routinely shoot innocent bystanders and each other. remember this?

they hit nine bystanders. the cops faced no consequences.

UPS driver. some armed dudes hijacked a UPS truck, got stuck in traffic. The cops surrounded the truck, used other cars and people as shields, shot the suspects, the UPS driver that got out of the truck, and managed to hit a few people in cars.

# ? Apr 22, 2021 06:09

reignonyourparade: Nov 15, 2012

Vahakyla posted:

And the cops should be fired and the mayors should do something about it. I don't think anyone disagrees with you on that.
Having that legal requirement would not change that, it would just bankrupt the town or be unenforceable in any reasonable manner.
Like, if your fire department just doesn't roll out when bells ring because they didn't feel like it, you have issues that need to be fixed.

Generally this is the sort of thing government departments have insurance for so, not really. Insurance companies don't generally like to pay out so they have motive to push departments to adopt practices that will make them less likely to do the thing insurance companies would have to pay out for. The ideal result is basically "city governments decide they would rather pay lower premiums rather than higher premiums and adopt whatever policies the insurance companies currently think are least likely to result in a payout."

In fact that very mechanism is actually ONE of the existing mechanisms behind police "shoot at everything." Police departments usually have insurance to provide death in the line of duty payouts, insurance companies don't pay out, insurance companies push through premiums to prioritize "officers shoots at any possible threat before the threat can materialize" above all other considerations. This has also metastasized into an independent us vs them mentality but insurance premiums were by all appearances a factor in the policies and training that pushed that mentality.

# ? Apr 22, 2021 06:18

Vahakyla: May 3, 2013

reignonyourparade posted:

Generally this is the sort of thing government departments have insurance for so, not really. Insurance companies don't generally like to pay out so they have motive to push departments to adopt practices that will make them less likely to do the thing insurance companies would have to pay out for. The ideal result is basically "city governments decide they would rather pay lower premiums rather than higher premiums and adopt whatever policies the insurance companies currently think are least likely to result in a payout."

In fact that very mechanism is actually ONE of the existing mechanisms behind police "shoot at everything." Police departments usually have insurance to provide death in the line of duty payouts, insurance companies don't pay out, insurance companies push through premiums to prioritize "officers shoots at any possible threat before the threat can materialize" above all other considerations. This has also metastasized into an independent us vs them mentality but insurance premiums were by all appearances a factor in the policies and training that pushed that mentality.

Solving issues by litigation and insurance is a pretty american thing. You can't sue doctors for millions in Europe, yet the health care is better. I don't disagree with you as much as I think that it is a completely wrong avenue to try to fix it. Because I believe it doesn't fix it, but only alleviates.

# ? Apr 22, 2021 06:21

SocketWrench: Jul 8, 2012; by Fritz the Horse

Gumball Gumption posted:

Uhhh yeah, that would be better.

Watch the video. I'm not sure where you think the cop could deploy a baton or pepper spray from ten feet away at the least within 3 seconds

Josef bugman posted:

Why? Why draw the line there?

Uh, because he's able to determine the difference between defending people and outright executing them.
Every one of your posts has been terrible and stupid. I really don't care if i eat a probe for saying that

NoDamage posted:

It has been asserted multiple times in this thread, yes, but I don't find this assertion particularly convincing. Yes, tasers can sometimes fail. Guns can also fail when the shooter misses or accidentally hits someone else. Considering that outcome in the "successful" scenario with a gun likely results in someone's death, I don't think we should be so eager to hand wave away tasers or other less lethal options.

Thing is, bullets tend to travel where they're aimed from a distance. Taser probes tend to be less accurate the further the distance because they spread. so that's another angle to take on this.

willie_dee posted:

Are you comparing all police shootings with this exact scenario of shot. Large target, close range, car as a back stop, etc etc?

Not much of a defense here. That dude that got shot in the back point blank getting into his car, he only caught four of the cop's bullets, the others went elsewhere. Part of the problem with mag dumping, the gun recoils with each shot and you don't give yourself enough time to re-aim. Girl in pink was directly behind Bryant plus two others nearby

SocketWrench fucked around with this message at 06:42 on Apr 22, 2021

# ? Apr 22, 2021 06:31

reignonyourparade: Nov 15, 2012

Vahakyla posted:

Solving issues by litigation and insurance is a pretty american thing. You can't sue doctors for millions in Europe, yet the health care is better. I don't disagree with you as much as I think that it is a completely wrong avenue to try to fix it. Because I believe it doesn't fix it, but only alleviates.

I mean, this isn't MY position, I was mostly just disputing that it requires "cops in every home or empty coffers." Regardless of whether its the RIGHT move, that's really not true.

# ? Apr 22, 2021 06:43

SocketWrench: Jul 8, 2012; by Fritz the Horse

Vahakyla posted:

Solving issues by litigation and insurance is a pretty american thing. You can't sue doctors for millions in Europe, yet the health care is better. I don't disagree with you as much as I think that it is a completely wrong avenue to try to fix it. Because I believe it doesn't fix it, but only alleviates.

Well, the healthcare in the US is good too, but, the whole money angle is what makes it suck. Suing over it for millions is part of that price tag at times. Same with suing the cops, you're just suing the city, essentially, which is why services the city provides gets their budget cut, or taxes go up. Being able to sue or not doesn't make things better and it doesn't make the skill of service worse, it just makes things a bit more out of reach for people that need it

# ? Apr 22, 2021 06:49

VitalSigns: Sep 3, 2011

SocketWrench posted:

I watched the vid. Kid's sitting on a bench toying with a BB gun, the cops roll up, jump out and immediately unload into him...like barely out of the car unload into him

it was even worse than that, it wasn't even a BB gun, it was a toy, the kid didn't have the toy gun out at all when the cops swerved up right next to him at high speed, slammed on the brakes, rolled out of the car, and unloaded into him from 10 feet away

then lied about the whole incident on their police report, claiming he ignored multiple verbal warnings and pointed the toy gun at them. When the surveillance video was discovered they still claimed they had to shoot him because he jumped back when they screeched to a halt in front of him and he "made a move to his pants"

VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 15:45 on Apr 23, 2021

# ? Apr 23, 2021 15:43

zzyzx: Mar 2, 2004

BlueBlazer posted:

I have a question. It doesn't relate to the facts, but to the steps involved in evaluating the cops actions.

Who is ultimately responsible for deciding after the fact whether the cops actions were justified? They should be held to the exact standard as a civilian in this case. Is it the local prosecutor that decides?

Seems appropriate that no one involved in the state that administered the force should be able to.

A civilian board should be drawn up as a jury and be made to make the choice whether that force was justified, in the case of any action resulting in death or the use of recognized deadly force.

Would some goon local to this most recent event more versed in the matters explain the legalese involved in what happens when a cop kills somebody?

Generally it'll be reviewed in three contexts, and Chauvin's case is a good example because we mostly know the outcome of all three:

1) Internally - the PD will have a system for reviewing the use of force and figuring out whether the officer violated department policy using its own supervisors and investigators. Chauvin et al got fired pretty quickly after Floyd was killed, probably because the chain of command watched the video and saw that he violated policies related to improper use of force, bringing dishonor upon the house of MPD, etc. The officer may or may not be placed on leave while the process plays out, depending on the situation and what the department rules say.

2) Civilly - the officer and/or various government entities can be sued for damages in civil court. Floyd's family sued the four officers involved in his death in federal court alleging that they violated his civil rights, as well as the city of Minneapolis (which has more money than the officers do) for failure to properly train or discipline its employees. The gatekeepers there are the attorneys that will / won't take the case, the judge who can throw the suit out for legal reasons, and a civil jury. This is where the family reached a $27M settlement with the city.

3) Criminally - prosecutors review what happened and decide whether they can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the officer killed someone without justification. Murder usually gets prosecuted at the state level except in special circumstances, so it'll normally be state prosecutors applying state law, the grand jury deciding whether to indict, and a jury deciding whether to convict. In Chauvin's case, the Hennepin County prosecutor charged him with 3rd-degree murder and manslaughter under MN law, and then the state AG took over, added a count of 2nd-degree murder, and convicted him.

(One interesting exception was the Danziger Bridge police shootings in New Orleans after Katrina. A number of officers were originally charged in state court but those charges got thrown out, so the feds took over and charged them not with murder, but with deprivation of rights under color of law. The officers were convicted in federal court, had their convictions thrown out again, and ultimately ended up pleading guilty.)

Same basic ideas will apply in the Bryant shooting, except that it seems like a pretty straightforward case of defense of another, so probably no disciplinary action / civil damages / criminal charges.

zzyzx fucked around with this message at 06:34 on Apr 24, 2021

# ? Apr 24, 2021 06:27

Foxfire_: Nov 8, 2010

zzyzx posted:

1) Internally - the PD will have a system for reviewing the use of force and figuring out whether the officer violated department policy using its own supervisors and investigators. Chauvin et al got fired pretty quickly after Floyd was killed, probably because the chain of command watched the video and saw that he violated policies related to improper use of force, bringing dishonor upon the house of MPD, etc. The officer may or may not be placed on leave while the process plays out, depending on the situation and what the department rules say.

Chauvin was fired because there was bystander video of the murder that prompted public outcry. Without that, I very much doubt he would have been fired, let alone prosecuted.

Minneapolis PD's original description of what happened posted:

Two officers arrived and located the suspect, a male believed to be in his 40s, in his car. He was ordered to step from his car. After he got out, he physically resisted officers. Officers were able to get the suspect into handcuffs and noted he appeared to be suffering medical distress. Officers called for an ambulance. He was transported to Hennepin County Medical Center by ambulance where he died a short time later

# ? Apr 24, 2021 07:11

Morningwoodpecker: Jan 17, 2016; I DIDN'T THINK IT WAS POSSIBLE FOR SOMEONE TO BE THIS STUPID

BUT HERE YOU ARE

Foxfire_ posted:

Chauvin was fired because there was bystander video of the murder that prompted public outcry. Without that, I very much doubt he would have been fired, let alone prosecuted.

True. Body worn video for cops should be compulsory and should be treated as their timecard as in it's recording or you don't get paid. Hit them in their pockets until it becomes a normal thing for them and it'll deter the Chauvin's of the world from even applying.

# ? Apr 24, 2021 07:19

generic one: Oct 2, 2004; I wish I was a little bit taller
I wish I was a baller
I wish I had a wookie in a hat with a bat
And a six four Impala; Nap Ghost

Maryland AG is having all of David Fowler�s cases reviewed.

https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1385753617882394624?s=21

# ? Apr 24, 2021 13:12

Kalit: Nov 6, 2006; The great thing about the thousands of slaughtered Palestinian children is that they can't pull away when you fondle them or sniff their hair.

That's a Biden success story.

generic one posted:

Maryland AG is having all of David Fowler�s cases reviewed.

https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1385753617882394624?s=21

Good, gently caress that racist rear end in a top hat. If anyone is unaware and it's not mentioned in that article (I'm paywalled out), he's also currently facing a federal lawsuit as well regarding a cover up of a cause of death: https://www.npr.org/local/305/2021/04/15/987636485/ex-medical-examiner-who-testified-in-chauvin-trial-faces-lawsuit-in-anton-brown-case

# ? Apr 24, 2021 13:58

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Morningwoodpecker posted:

True. Body worn video for cops should be compulsory and should be treated as their timecard as in it's recording or you don't get paid. Hit them in their pockets until it becomes a normal thing for them and it'll deter the Chauvin's of the world from even applying.

Not enough if cops are still able to turn them off. The murderers would not mind taking a slight pay cut if it meant getting away with murder.

# ? Apr 24, 2021 14:51

generic one: Oct 2, 2004; I wish I was a little bit taller
I wish I was a baller
I wish I had a wookie in a hat with a bat
And a six four Impala; Nap Ghost

Kalit posted:

Good, gently caress that racist rear end in a top hat. If anyone is unaware and it's not mentioned in that article (I'm paywalled out), he's also currently facing a federal lawsuit as well regarding a cover up of a cause of death

Yeah, the article does get into that case, toward the end. Something that should also be mentioned is that some media outlets in South Africa seem to addressing the environment he was brought up and educated in. Like this piece. By all accounts, he�s suspect as hell.

# ? Apr 24, 2021 20:43

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

generic one posted:

Maryland AG is having all of David Fowler�s cases reviewed.

https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1385753617882394624?s=21

Love that his testifying basically shot himself in the foot.

# ? Apr 24, 2021 22:33

Zeroisanumber: Oct 23, 2010; Nap Ghost

CommieGIR posted:

Love that his testifying basically shot himself in the foot.

Every single person who I've talked to about it thought his testimony was outright bizarre and the idea that George Floyd died of CO poisoning was ridiculous.

# ? Apr 24, 2021 22:52

Foxfire_: Nov 8, 2010

Zeroisanumber posted:

Every single person who I've talked to about it thought his testimony was outright bizarre and the idea that George Floyd died of CO poisoning was ridiculous.

It's extra bizarre because even if you believed it for some reason, saying that Floyd died because Chauvin held his face in front of a car exhaust until it poisoned him would still be murder.

# ? Apr 24, 2021 23:04

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

generic one posted:

Yeah, the article does get into that case, toward the end. Something that should also be mentioned is that some media outlets in South Africa seem to addressing the environment he was brought up and educated in. Like this piece. By all accounts, he�s suspect as hell.

I don't mean to be prejudiced, but every white South African over a certain age is suspect as hell. I'd put it at roughly 35-40 right now, I'm sure there are exceptions, but growing up in an explicitly racist society does a number on you and the only people who can escape that are the people who have put effort into it.

# ? Apr 24, 2021 23:09

HopperUK: Apr 29, 2007; Why would an ambulance be leaving the hospital?

PT6A posted:

I don't mean to be prejudiced, but every white South African over a certain age is suspect as hell. I'd put it at roughly 35-40 right now, I'm sure there are exceptions, but growing up in an explicitly racist society does a number on you and the only people who can escape that are the people who have put effort into it.

When I was a kid the satirical puppet show Spitting Image had a popular song called 'I've Never Met a Nice South African' that pops into my mind at the weirdest moments.

# ? Apr 24, 2021 23:30

Paracaidas: Sep 24, 2016; Consistently Tedious!

Didn't see this update posted--

Sentencing June 16th, jurors names sealed for 6 months

Jurors are allowed to identify themselves and do interviews if they choose. An alternate already has

quote:

The jurors who held the fate of former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin in their hands took their job so seriously that to protect the process they didn't learn one another's names, jobs, family ties or personal interests.

They came from various backgrounds and spanned five decades in age but somehow came to an unspoken understanding early in their three weeks together that they would limit conversation to the weather, a shortage of Cheetos at their snack table and their pizza orders every Wednesday, said Lisa Christensen, who served as an alternate juror in the case.

"We didn't want to do or say anything to jeopardize this process � so we were very careful. We were responsible. We took it seriously," said Christensen. "I felt everybody was coming from a good place, a good heart. I felt everyone was genuine. I don't think there were any ulterior motives at all."
[...]
Christensen still can't shake the testimony of Darnella Frazier, who was 17 when she recorded the video of Floyd's arrest that became key to the prosecution's case, and Frazier's then 9-year-old cousin, Judeah Reynolds.

"To this day it's still in my mind that [Frazier is] � apologizing to Mr. Floyd at night because she can't go to sleep," Christensen said. "It's pretty heartbreaking. The 9-year-old, I could feel her sadness."

There were several moments during such testimony where jurors retired to a locked room guarded by a deputy and, overcome by emotion, cast their eyes downward to avoid eye contact and waited in complete silence until their return to the courtroom.

"While we were in there it was just us, you know?" Christensen said. "I feel like even though we didn't talk about it, I felt like we were supported by one another, gained strength. � It was a good group."

Frazier's video was integral to the state's case, she said, adding that the testimony of prosecution witness Dr. Martin Tobin was crucial to establishing that Floyd died of asphyxia while Chauvin knelt on Floyd's neck for nine minutes and 29 seconds.

"It never got any easier no matter how many times we saw it," she said of the video. "I still felt the pain I thought Mr. Floyd was going through. I never understood it any better from the first time I saw it to the last time I saw it."

Chauvin's attorney, Eric Nelson, was unable to raise doubts about the state's case or show that Floyd died of a cardiac arrest affected by drug use, or that Chauvin's actions were reasonable, Christensen said.

# ? Apr 25, 2021 01:44

Dapper_Swindler: Feb 14, 2012; Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

Paracaidas posted:

Didn't see this update posted--

Sentencing June 16th, jurors names sealed for 6 months

Jurors are allowed to identify themselves and do interviews if they choose. An alternate already has

yeah. i am curious what persuaded people. i am not surprised the Tobin testimony helped. it got to me too.

# ? Apr 25, 2021 01:51

FilthyImp: Sep 30, 2002; Anime Deviant

SocketWrench posted:

They showed up and had seconds to try and evaluate the situation before berserker blows past the cop to attack pink.

Why would you dehumanize her like this???

Dapper_Swindler posted:

yeah. i am curious what persuaded people. i am not surprised the Tobin testimony helped. it got to me too.

I didn't watch a lot of it, but the clips that came out where people were weeping or emotionally wrecked because they blamed themselves were really, really affecting. It took the focus off of stopping Chauvin to helping Floyd.

There's a teenager that recorded the whole thing. The MMA guy who couldn't intervene. The older gentleman who broke down on the stand. The store clerk who regretting drawing attention to the bill... all of them felt personal responsibility in a way that's just deep.

# ? Apr 25, 2021 16:31

FoolyCharged: Oct 11, 2012; Cheating at a raffle? I sentence you to 1 year in jail! No! Two years! Three! Four! Five years! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah!
Somebody call for an ant?

FilthyImp posted:

I didn't watch a lot of it, but the clips that came out where people were weeping or emotionally wrecked because they blamed themselves were really, really affecting. It took the focus off of stopping Chauvin to helping Floyd.

There's a teenager that recorded the whole thing. The MMA guy who couldn't intervene. The older gentleman who broke down on the stand. The store clerk who regretting drawing attention to the bill... all of them felt personal responsibility in a way that's just deep.

And in a way Chauvin didn't.

# ? Apr 25, 2021 17:41

Paracaidas: Sep 24, 2016; Consistently Tedious!

FilthyImp posted:

I didn't watch a lot of it, but the clips that came out where people were weeping or emotionally wrecked because they blamed themselves were really, really affecting. It took the focus off of stopping Chauvin to helping Floyd.

There's a teenager that recorded the whole thing. The MMA guy who couldn't intervene. The older gentleman who broke down on the stand. The store clerk who regretting drawing attention to the bill... all of them felt personal responsibility in a way that's just deep.

The alternate noted the clerk as well. I think that Floyd's murder lasting so long, being recorded, and having so many witnesses is part of why there was finally a measure of accountability when there hasn't been in so many other cases.

FoolyCharged posted:

And in a way Chauvin didn't.

I think this will be one of the biggest differences between Chauvin's trial and the upcoming trial of the other three officers in August. Putting Chauvin on the stand risked opening up things like the 2017 case where Chauvin repeatedly battered a teenager and knelt on him for an extended period while ignoring his mother and his own pleas that he couldn't breathe. I'm not aware of similarly damning past misconduct by the other officers, so they may end up testifying on their own behalf(behalves?).

Interviews with Ellison's office here about strategy and broader next steps for prosecuting police misconduct in MN

reposted in full posted:

Chauvin verdicts 'not a cause for celebration,' prosecutor says
Several days after jurors returned full convictions against former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin, the prosecutors who pieced together the case against him say they have refrained from celebrating their win and struggle to sleep a full night.

While there were congratulations in the immediate aftermath of last Tuesday's three guilty verdicts, the weight of the case loomed over the team that spent nearly a year poring through evidence and stitching together a careful attack on Chauvin's claims that he followed his training as he knelt on George Floyd's neck for nine minutes and 29 seconds last May.

"It's not a cause for celebration," Attorney General Keith Ellison said of Chauvin's conviction. "It's sad, very sad. One man's dead and another man's going to prison for a long time."

"It's a tragedy, and there really are no winners in a tragedy," said Special Assistant Attorney General Jerry Blackwell, who played a key role by delivering the state's opening statement, questioning witnesses and giving the rebuttal closing argument.

In four months they expect to be back in court trying Chauvin's three former colleagues � J. Alexander Kueng, Thomas Lane and Tou Thao � in one trial on charges of aiding and abetting Floyd's murder. Chauvin is scheduled for sentencing June 16.

The Attorney General's Office led the prosecution with assistance from the Hennepin County Attorney's Office. Ellison brought together several high-profile outside attorneys, including Blackwell, to work with prosecutors from both offices to try Chauvin for second-degree murder, third-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter.

Ellison, Blackwell and Special Assistant Attorneys General Lola Velazquez-Aguilu and Steve Schleicher, also outside attorneys, sat down for a recent interview to discuss how the team prepared for and executed the six-week trial that was livestreamed and watched around the world.

"I asked these guys when we got here, 'Are you sleeping yet?' and for all of us the answer is no, we're not sleeping yet," said Velazquez-Aguilu.

A team of about 13 attorneys, 10 from outside the attorney general's office and some from as far away as Washington D.C., were assigned to committees covering different topics, including law enforcement and policing; medical issues and causation of death; and "themes" and "the art of presentation," among others. Some additional attorneys from Ellison's office provided part-time assistance. All outside contributors worked for free, according to Ellison's office.

The key to a successful operation, Ellison said, was to assign attorneys as leaders in one committee and followers in others to empower everyone to contribute. Blackwell and Schleicher said Ellison's guidance, weekly Zoom meetings, organized groups and clearly outlined tasks and purposes eased the process.

"It was not a pirate ship," said Schleicher, who focused on policing and questioned several witnesses at trial. "It was a warship, and it was ready to go."

"Everybody was willing to take out the trash, to literally do anything large or small," said Velazquez-Aguilu, who focused on medical issues, preparing experts and outlining questions behind the scenes. "At no time did I see anyone with a hint of ego say, 'Well, I'm too important to do this thing.' "

But the path wasn't always smooth. Ellison has said he assembled a team of "Michael Jordans" � star attorneys used to calling the shots now suddenly thrust into a massive group project coordinated over Zoom because of the COVID-19 pandemic. Some attorneys met each other for the first time in person six months after their collaboration began.

"There were times it felt like trying to mix oil, water and a brick," Blackwell said, prompting laughter from the others. "You take deep breaths and you keep working at it. Everyone was committed to finding the best way to win. We understood we couldn't take anything for granted. These cases are difficult."

Blackwell was credited for crafting the mantra, "You can believe your eyes," which was introduced in his opening statement on March 29 and repeated several times in Schleicher's closing argument on April 19. He said he intentionally delivered an even-keeled opening statement centered on reason and logic instead of emotion so the evidence could speak for itself and to avoid playing into expectations that he would be overly emotional because he is Black.

"We felt that the most potent, powerful evidence there was the video and let people see it for themselves, judge it for themselves, reach their own conclusions and be able to say to them, 'There's no optical illusion in this; you can believe your eyes,' " Blackwell said.

The video, taken by Darnella Frazier, then 17, became the theme, Ellison said. The prosecution structured its case around it by calling several bystanders at the scene to the witness stand in the first few days of trial, then calling several Minneapolis police officers who testified Chauvin used excessive force and lastly, reinforcing what the bystanders saw with medical experts who testified that Floyd died of asphyxiation, Ellison said.

"Even though the video was incredibly powerful, I always was thinking about how we need to present this case if we somehow didn't have the video," Ellison said. " � I thought we needed to try the case imagining we didn't have the video and that was important, because I was always mindful, 'Are we playing it too much? At what point do you desensitize?' "

Prosecutors argued that the video showed Floyd dying of asphyxia breath-by-breath as Chauvin knelt on his neck while Kueng and Lane knelt and held the rest of his body stomach-down in the street. Chauvin's attorney, Eric Nelson, argued that Floyd died from a cardiac arrest due to pre-existing heart disease and clogged arteries, among other health issues, and drug use

Citing the pending cases against Chauvin's former colleagues, Ellison declined to comment about his office's position on Hennepin County Chief Medical Examiner Dr. Andrew Baker's findings that Floyd died of "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression."

When asked whether he had prior knowledge of the City of Minneapolis' record $27 million settlement with the Floyd family, Ellison said: "I don't believe I knew anything about it. I certainly didn't factor it in. I didn't have any authority over it. � Didn't care, didn't matter to me."

The settlement was announced at the end of the first week of jury selection, angering the defense and trial judge because of its possible prejudicial impact. Settlements typically are resolved after a case concludes. Nelson argued that the announcement could have biased several seated jurors and prospective jurors. Ultimately, two jurors who had been seated were dismissed when they said it had affected their objectivity.

The attorney general's handling of the prosecution diverged from past practices in which county attorneys reviewed cases in their own jurisdictions. Several metro county attorneys signed an agreement last year to defer officer-involved fatalities in their jurisdiction to an outside county until later this year or until state lawmakers approve forwarding all future cases to the attorney general.

Ellison said he won't usurp the authority of county attorneys, "but they know we're ready to help."

"We will be a player in this space," Ellison said. "Will we take all the cases? I doubt it. Will we take some of them? Yes, I'm sure we will. We're prepared to do it. We're building expertise."

# ? Apr 25, 2021 18:51

Sjs00: Jun 29, 2013; Yeah Baby Yeah !

https://m.startribune.com/chauvin-verdicts-not-a-cause-for-celebration-prosecutor-says/600049827/ posted:

"It was not a pirate ship," said Schleicher, who focused on policing and questioned several witnesses at trial. "It was a warship, and it was ready to go."

Not a pirate ship got it

# ? Apr 25, 2021 23:14

Zeroisanumber: Oct 23, 2010; Nap Ghost

Sjs00 posted:

Not a pirate ship got it

They're taking a particularly Minnesotan tack to the aftermath by treating it as an "all are punish'd" situation instead of doing a victory lap like you'd see in states where big egos can be more public about it. Everyone in the AG's office is a political animal and has a political future to protect. Ellison is a decent man but an ambitious one, and knows that the AG's office can be a springboard to either the Senate or the Governor's Mansion.

# ? Apr 26, 2021 07:44

Paracaidas: Sep 24, 2016; Consistently Tedious!

One of the jurors did an interview with CBS this morning. A few notes for those who can't watch:
https://mobile.twitter.com/CBSThisMorning/status/1387379305068572677

Tobin and the MMA fighter were the most impactful witnesses to him, made it all but impossible for the defense to come back.
A few jurors were disappointed Chauvin didn't testify.
"We were just stressed about just the simple fact that everyday we had to come in and watch a Black man die. That alone is stressful."
Started with manslaughter and worked their way up
Preliminary manslaughter vote was 11-1. Holdout was wondering about a few words in the instructions. Came to consensus in 40 minutes and moved on to the next one.

# ? Apr 28, 2021 13:43

Literally Kermit: Mar 4, 2012; t

I�m not entirely clear on how juries for big cases work, and it probably changes state to state: how many jurors and alternates are there for an active trial? Is �52� his overall all number in the section process, I presume?

# ? Apr 28, 2021 14:09

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# ? Apr 29, 2024 06:10

WAR CRIME GIGOLO: Oct 3, 2012; The Hague
tryna get me
for these glutes

Literally Kermit posted:

I�m not entirely clear on how juries for big cases work, and it probably changes state to state: how many jurors and alternates are there for an active trial? Is �52� his overall all number in the section process, I presume?

Iirc there were 2 alternates selected. But a legalgoon can probably explain better

# ? Apr 28, 2021 15:27

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