[Ukraine] another dawn is breaking in Mosciv and it's still Russian

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Ukraine] another dawn is breaking in Mosciv and it's still Russian

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What is the most powerful flying bug? This poll is closed.
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Total:	404 votes

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DaysBefore: Jan 24, 2019

gradenko_2000 posted:

https://twitter.com/uncleLem/status/1738649833127219340?t=RrQQnKTk8iPHNIcnSn9DTQ&s=19

https://twitter.com/gerasim_vol/status/1738675471175332147?t=kMSJs8xnFwb8g_FXT9nTbQ&s=19

https://twitter.com/The_Fit_Gourmet/status/1738655700048396735?t=WIORzsDbLRk020LoLD0nDw&s=19

https://twitter.com/minimall/status/1738668687018643950?t=B9Fnx2SzRQopRHOCkXRxJw&s=19

https://twitter.com/lama_redpajama/status/1738649160012685350?t=z0LCp7is9yH_9YJUriSylg&s=19

https://twitter.com/VirtualDoomer/status/1738678506387562503?t=sCuFcqcJBh_yTii14gAUxw&s=19

https://twitter.com/kysme123/status/1738925727041323472?t=ZR7ecB6tcP-LoZChEUQTaA&s=19

https://twitter.com/KLuaus/status/1738749917084930483?t=sBhifJQIb_H9qoPdq_v2Yg&s=19

Woah. Moscow is beautiful. Didn't read anything else

# ¿ Dec 25, 2023 04:00

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# ¿ May 12, 2024 12:29

DaysBefore: Jan 24, 2019

Ardennes posted:

Zaluzhny admitted that Avdiivka is probably going to be fall in the next 2-3 months.

Woah. He should loving surrender so the killing can stop

# ¿ Dec 26, 2023 18:06

DaysBefore: Jan 24, 2019

stephenthinkpad posted:

Still cheaper than , but over here the moderation is slightly more consistent. Only slightly.

(Also don't post on reddit without vpn extension on your browser, if anyone wants more laughable anecdotal stories. Reddit will blanket ban all your accounts on the same ip, even the ones you use to bookmark fapping subs and have never made a post.)

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

The war threads are so bad rear end

# ¿ Dec 26, 2023 18:07

DaysBefore: Jan 24, 2019

Are the stupid nazi bitches in Kiev surrendering yet. Is anyone even pretending to do diplomacy anymore

# ¿ Mar 12, 2024 15:32

DaysBefore: Jan 24, 2019

Paramemetic posted:

The Pope suggested maybe they should think about it but it's because he's an ardent genocidal Putinist obviously

Oh okay checked what he said and thank you based Pope for being the only person speaking the obvious truth. Hope the retards in Kiev and their masters in NATO get the message and loving surrender rather than dragging it out long enough to decimate another generation of Ukranian men and empower more literal nazis

# ¿ Mar 12, 2024 15:43

DaysBefore: Jan 24, 2019

VoicesCanBe posted:

https://twitter.com/RnaudBertrand/status/1767562336452440422

Cool. You'd think the drooling morons in Brussels and Washington and Paris, faced with all this overwhelming evidence, would be advising surrender in line with Comrade The Pope in order to stop the killing in this unwinnable war

# ¿ Mar 13, 2024 09:49

DaysBefore: Jan 24, 2019

VoicesCanBe posted:

https://twitter.com/yarotrof/status/1767824155108311284

The entire collective west doesn't understand the concept of leverage in the context of negotiations.

Wow hopefully the retarded cokehead billionaire in charge of Ukraine surrenders because there are no other options for ending this war aside from slowly grinding the population into dust

Extremely braindamaged D&D freak: yes this is why Ukraine should start conscripting women #girlboss

# ¿ Mar 13, 2024 16:36

DaysBefore: Jan 24, 2019

mawarannahr posted:

Address to the citizens of Russia � President of Russia

drat Putin ftw

# ¿ Mar 14, 2024 17:23

DaysBefore: Jan 24, 2019

SplitSoul posted:

These shitheads are gonna get us all killed.

https://www.dw.com/en/ukraine-updates-presence-of-foreign-troops-open-secret/live-68619249

Um.... ahhhhh!! We're all gonna die because some stupid little bitch won't surrender an unwinnable war. Badass. This rules.

# ¿ Mar 20, 2024 14:07

DaysBefore: Jan 24, 2019

Whybwould the perfidious east slavs have to invent a fake journalist when they could just point to the very real properties and cash revealed in the Panama Papers lol

# ¿ Mar 20, 2024 15:02

DaysBefore: Jan 24, 2019

Officer Sandvich posted:

https://cepa.org/article/baltics-to-fight-russia-from-the-first-mile/

Baltics to Fight Russia From the First Mile

The Baltic defensive line, a new approach to fighting a Russian invasion showcases a shift in the operational and strategic thinking of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania.

the baltics are ready

Holland 2 lmfao

# ¿ Mar 20, 2024 17:07

DaysBefore: Jan 24, 2019

fizziester posted:

Source: New York Times

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/20/world/europe/ukraine-russia-south.html

Symbolism or Strategy? Ukraine Battles to Retain Small Gains.
By Andrew E. Kramer and Maria Varenikova
Reported from the Zaporizhzhia region in southern Ukraine
March 20, 2024
Updated 7:10 a.m. ET

Fighting on the plain in southern Ukraine�s Zaporizhzhia region, where Oleksandr�s vehicle was hit earlier this year, has raged for 10 months now in two phases: first with Ukrainian forces on the offense, and now on defense, as Russia escalates attacks on the area where Ukraine gained ground in last summer�s counteroffensive.

Military analysts have described Ukraine�s strategy as �hold, build and strike� � holding the line in the country�s southeast, replenishing its units with fresh troops and hitting back with long-range drones attacks on oil refineries and military logistics targets inside Russia.

In Zaporizhzhia, this has meant defending an area created by last summer�s counteroffensive, a 10-mile-deep semicircle that presses into Russian-held territory, forming a bulge. Soldiers describe ruined villages, trenches and fields that are a moonscape of shell craters.

At the southern tip of the semicircle lies the village of Robotyne. Ukraine recaptured it last summer, in the high-water mark of a counteroffensive that not only failed to achieve a breakthrough, but left the Russians in a strong enough position to start pushing back across the southern front.

Ukrainian forces occupying that bulge in the front line can be attacked from three sides, creating a dilemma: Abandoning that pocket would ease the pressure on them, but it would also signal a symbolic setback in the war, losing territory they gained last year at a high cost in casualties and destroyed weaponry.

Interviewed last week, soldiers who recently fought there described small sways in the front in both directions, and being badly outgunned by Russian artillery. Overall along the frontline, Russia is firing seven times as many artillery shells as Ukraine, General Ivan Havryliuk, a deputy minister of defense, told Ukrainian media on Monday...

... Like Bakhmut and Avdiivka, Robotyne, which had a prewar population of about 500 people, is now just ruins. Throughout the war, American officials have repeatedly raised concerns that Ukraine was holding out too long in defending such places, committing soldiers and ammunition to cling to devastated towns with little strategic value..

But for Ukraine, the area around Robotyne remains worth fighting for, at least for now.

�At some point, symbolic becomes strategic,� Yurii Sak, a former adviser to the minister of defense, said of the fighting. Defending the gains of the offensive, he said, is �important for morale, it�s important for the support of the population, it�s important for the inner belief in our potential to win.�

The combat is also more costly in casualties for the attacking Russians than the Ukrainians in their defensive positions, Mr. Sak said. �As long as that calculus continues, it supports holding the ground,� he said. �It�s war, so casualties are inevitable on both sides.�

Russia is now on the offensive along the entire frontline, which stretches in a 600-mile-long crescent from the Russian border in northeastern Ukraine to the southern Dnipro River. The Kremlin�s military has been using its advantage in ammunition, manpower and aviation....

... These fights are worthwhile, Ukrainian officials have said, because they cost Russia tens of thousands of soldiers killed and wounded, but there is skepticism in Washington.

�I understand the administration has been frustrated,� Evelyn Farkas, director of the McCain Institute, said, referring to the Biden administration.

�It�s unclear whether military decisions are purely military or influenced by political pressure or even direction,� she said...

Woah. They should surrender

# ¿ Mar 20, 2024 20:58

DaysBefore: Jan 24, 2019

The Red Army ftmfw

# ¿ Mar 24, 2024 12:19

DaysBefore: Jan 24, 2019

Homeless Friend posted:

your all forgetting the funniest bit which is the french/british didnt want to help the poles at all and left them high and dry, thereby passing up the chance to defeat germany early because they were afraid of a lil bit of property damage and basically got themselves invaded and taken over all said n done. as a result they got bombed the hell out lol by the blitz+ allied bombing of france lol.

Even funnier (not funny but very sad/enraging) because the French did cross the border in force and realised how weak the Germans were around Alsace but then withdrew and did nothing until they got decisively owned in the Low Countries a year later. But yes surely this is the fault of the Soviets

# ¿ Mar 24, 2024 13:50

DaysBefore: Jan 24, 2019

The incompetence of the French generals and doctrine is stunning even in a war with a lot of incompetent generals and plans on all sides

# ¿ Mar 24, 2024 13:55

DaysBefore: Jan 24, 2019

fizziester posted:

Good news for NAFOs!

____________________________________________

Source: Politico EU

https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-faces-an-acute-manpower-shortage-with-young-men-dodging-the-draft/

Draft-dodging plagues Ukraine as Kyiv faces acute soldier shortage
BY JAMIE DETTMER
MARCH 25, 2024 3:55 AM CET

__________________________________________________

!!! WARNING !!!

NAFOS DO NOT READ PAST THIS POINT!

!!! WARNING!!!

__________________________________________________

KYIV � The 28-year-old is one of thousands of young Ukrainian men keeping their heads down, dodging conscription and avoiding registering their details as required. Artem is cautious when he ventures out, and avoids places like metro stations where police mount document checks looking for draft-dodgers...

... When Russia invaded their country two years ago, young and old Ukrainians swamped recruitment centers to volunteer...

... But that early burst of patriotic fervor has waned with the war now in its third year, the body bags filling, and men returning home injured and disfigured.

Pessimism about the future of the conflict is also taking hold, with ever more people questioning whether Ukraine is capable of defeating Moscow's forces.

'Sensitive' issue

Ukraine needs to draft many more men for a battlefield that is chewing up bodies, but authorities are conflicted over whether to cajole or coerce, and fear the political fallout if they choose the latter. Since the Russian invasion two years ago around 9,000 draft-evasion proceedings have been opened, according to the Ukrainian interior ministry, but that's just scratching the surface of the draft-dodging and the evasion of registration so enlistment notices can't be issued...

... The most immediate need now is to enlist more soldiers that can be deployed along the 1,000-kilometer front line ahead of an expected major Russian push toward either Kharkiv in the northeast or Odesa in the south...

... Ukraine is perilously short not only of ammunition � especially artillery shells and air defense missiles � but also of soldiers to see off a Russian attack. The average age of Ukraine�s frontline soldiers is 43 � and evidence of draft-dodging is mounting.

The BBC recently reported that 650,000 Ukrainian men of fighting age have fled the country in the past two years, most slipping across its borders with Poland and Slovakia, some with false exemption papers allowing them to exit Ukraine despite a ban on fighting-age men leaving the country.

Last year nearly 1,300 draft-dodgers found themselves before the courts, but officials acknowledge this is just a small fraction of those avoiding enlistment. A draft system is in effect to supplement the ranks of volunteers, but lawmakers say it is dysfunctional and is hampered by the failure of thousands to register their details and whereabouts. Enforcement is haphazard, depending largely on random spot checks of documents by police, who are more vigilant in some areas of the country than in others.

Moscow�s troop strength inside Ukraine currently exceeds 400,000 soldiers, with another 100,000 near Ukrainian territory. Overall Kyiv has around 680,000 active military personnel with around 200,000 on the frontlines; Russia, meanwhile, has 1.2 million, according to the International Institute for Strategic Studies. Ukrainian army general staff said last year they feared Russia could be considering mobilizing 400,000 to 700,000 additional troops.

In December Zelenskyy said 450,000 to 500,000 extra soldiers would be needed to resist Russia in 2024. The Ukrainian parliament has for weeks been considering fresh mobilization legislation, which would see the minimum conscription age lowered from 27 to 25. The age was in fact lowered in separate legislation last July and approved by parliament, but Zelenskyy never signed it into law. He hasn't fully explained why.

The new draft legislation has been re-written several times and envisages a call-up of another 400,000 Ukrainian troops. It has stalled in the parliament, however, with lawmakers objecting to some punitive measures they regard as unconstitutional, such as restricting the property rights of draft-dodgers, impounding their cars and blocking their bank accounts.

'Hot political potato'

�That�s highly unpopular,� said Mykola Kniazhytskyi, an opposition lawmaker from Lviv. �Truth be told, mobilization is a hot political potato, and no one wants to be holding it. The army needs many more people. But Zelenskyy doesn�t want to take responsibility for the mobilization and says it is up to government ministries, and they�re afraid of getting their hands burned and say it is up to the parliament, which then passes the buck back....

... What isn�t helping, he and other lawmakers say, is the frequent talk from the frontlines about the lack of weapons and artillery shells. �You have officers going on television saying if we don't get more money and ammunition from the United States and Europe everyone at the front is going to get killed in a matter of weeks because the Russians produce many drones and have more shells,� Kniazhytskyi fumed. Such prognoses aren�t helping persuade reluctant Ukrainians like Artem to join up....

'One-way ticket'

Artem says he and his friends dodging the draft are also afraid of being stuck in combat for months or years on end. �I�m young and want to live my life, and to go there without knowing when I will return to my normal life is hard. I have friends who volunteered at the beginning of the war and they're still there fighting. So it is like a one-way ticket,� he says.

Prolonged time on the frontlines is also drawing bitter complaints from battle-weary Ukrainian combatants demanding to be demobilized or rotated out with lengthy recuperation time. Their relatives want the same thing: On Sunday, dozens of families of frontline soldiers crowded into Kyiv�s Maidan Square to demand their husbands, fathers and boyfriends be relieved from combat, arguing they�ve done their bit and now must be demobilized or given considerable rest and relaxation...

... Last month, Mykhailo Podolyak, a senior adviser to Zelenskyy, said people will have to determine for themselves the price they are willing to pay for Ukraine�s independence...

... He also said that seeing the issue purely through the lens of mobilization misses the point. �It is nonsense to think in terms of sheer numbers when fighting against Russia. We live in the age of high technology. Why should people have to fight if you have enough precision weapons � drones, jammers, long-range missiles? The more tools we have in the form of precision weapons, the less gunfights we have,� he said.

But Ukraine doesn�t have enough of those high-tech weapons. Until they do, sheer numbers may well win out � and even if they do get the supplies, they still may not compensate for Russia�s greater manpower.

For Artem, there�s little that could persuade him to enlist. �My mother is a nurse and she sees the wounded and tells me firmly to stay out of it,� he says.

Woah, they should surrender. Also 25 is the min age for conscription? Am I crazy or is that like backwards, dom't you usually conscript people 18-25 not a bunch of middle aged dudes

# ¿ Mar 25, 2024 11:18

DaysBefore: Jan 24, 2019

bedpan posted:

I'm sure there is nothing sinister going on regarding Lithuania and its minority russian population

Is Lithuania the one that instituted mandatory language testing to punish the like 1/3rd of the country that speaks Russian. Can't tell these Baltic freaks apart

# ¿ Mar 25, 2024 20:20

DaysBefore: Jan 24, 2019

Officer Sandvich posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17lLgLcv1Mo

Oh cool this was even worse than I expected and I expected something pretty bad. Inviting two Banderites to set the record straight on how calling an SS veteran a Nazi is really mean ftw

Starsfan posted:

Pretty sure that was Latvia. They were going to kick out seniors that had lived in Latvia since childhood if they couldn't demonstrate fluency in Latvian. Have to get rid of those potentially subversive elements in society

Oh right. Yeah that's so loving disgusting lmao

# ¿ Mar 25, 2024 20:44

DaysBefore: Jan 24, 2019

lobster shirt posted:

jesus lol the overall population of lithuania has declined by 900k people since 1991. that's almost a 25 percent!

Russo-fascist tankie chuds, good riddance

# ¿ Mar 25, 2024 20:45

DaysBefore: Jan 24, 2019

Officer Sandvich posted:

https://www.kyivpost.com/opinion/30025

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Qf8EuP7dwjRKT3nc7ulq2mAoCWJUxt5J/view?pli=1

I take psychic damage every time I'm exposed to this guy

Wait he's an RMC professor. That means..... oh man, FF you have the chance to do something really funmy

# ¿ Mar 25, 2024 21:17

DaysBefore: Jan 24, 2019

It's insane how thoroughly Banderites control the narrative in Canada. Like even with Gaza there are plenty of non-zionist Jews and Jewish organisations speaking out etc. There is literally no dissent that I know of from 'Ukrainian' Canadians when it comes to Bandera being ftw or the Holodomor being the Even Worse Holocaust.

Like the entire story has been completely ceded to the relatively small number who showed up here after the war (and their literal and ideological descendents) when there were already hundreds of thousands Ukranians in Canada before they started arriving. I assume because a fair number of pre-war Ukranians were some type of leftist and therefore the government needed some reliable, patriotic, anti-communist heroes to take charge

genericnick posted:

why would this dude panic

Lol he was a collaborator. Badass

# ¿ Mar 25, 2024 21:30

DaysBefore: Jan 24, 2019

DJJIB-DJDCT posted:

Yeah, get fired by the deranged (and tenured) guy who has been writing editorials for two years about how the Holocaust wasn't that bad (not a joke).

Jesus Christ

# ¿ Mar 25, 2024 21:47

DaysBefore: Jan 24, 2019

lobster shirt posted:

lol jesus

Gee I wonder what flag those millions of Ukrainians were fighting under when they died

Worst part of all this is ignoring the true legacy of Ukrainians during WW2, which is that millions served in the Red Army to fight against the Nazis and the few tens of thousands Ukrainian collabs

VoicesCanBe posted:

The Baltic states are insane lol. Electing a Nazi collaborator twice, wild.

Seriously. And not just the Baltics doing poo poo like this, wasn't the wartime King of.... Romania (?) elected president after communism fell? Like goddamn

# ¿ Mar 25, 2024 22:30

DaysBefore: Jan 24, 2019

Skaffen-Amtiskaw posted:

I remember disabling the �no horny� filter on Steam briefly and the first game that popped up was Sex With Hitler.

You were looking at your Wishlist

# ¿ Mar 26, 2024 19:05

DaysBefore: Jan 24, 2019

They should ramp up surrendering

# ¿ Mar 26, 2024 19:53

DaysBefore: Jan 24, 2019

Homeless Friend posted:

another obvious W for humanity imo

Yup. Unironic even. Big credit to the guy signing our cheques here, Putin ignoring neoliberal sanction wars is very based

# ¿ Mar 27, 2024 00:59

DaysBefore: Jan 24, 2019

Hotep Putin ftw

# ¿ Mar 27, 2024 14:15

DaysBefore: Jan 24, 2019

euphronius posted:

maybe they should surrender

# ¿ Mar 29, 2024 00:50

DaysBefore: Jan 24, 2019

Officer Sandvich posted:

https://cepa.org/article/the-elite-ukrainian-brigade-everyone-wants-to-join/

The Elite Ukrainian Brigade Everyone Wants to Join

Ukraine’s 3rd Separate Assault Brigade is a recruitment success story, with more than 900 volunteers a month seeking to join. Can this be replicated across the armed forces?

It's so cool that we're all just supposed to accept that these guys are on the up and up now. They weren't ever Nazis, but if they were it was in the past, and also that's Russian disinformation. All the big news orgs just five years ago were running stories pointing out that NATO guns and trainers were being photographed with big ol Nazi flags alongside a regiment that did pogroms but now, oh, forget that. Give the apolitical unit unlimited money and build up their reputation as super heroes and don't ever ever ever consider the consequences for post-war Ukraine of having a large, extremely well armed, internationally supported unit of apolitical sonnenrand enjoyers

# ¿ Apr 7, 2024 00:15

DaysBefore: Jan 24, 2019

Lol even the amount of government control over factories during WWII, which still gave private companies a fair amount of leeway, would be unthinkable in the austerity-based neoliberal economies of modern NATO. That is, if there were any factories left to control

# ¿ Apr 7, 2024 11:40

DaysBefore: Jan 24, 2019

All the more reason why Ukraine should surrender

# ¿ Apr 7, 2024 11:40

DaysBefore: Jan 24, 2019

How many of those new street names are for OUN guys lol

# ¿ Apr 7, 2024 13:02

DaysBefore: Jan 24, 2019

Gripweed posted:

goddam, imagine if that was your house in the middle there

Front row seats to a beautiful Fenian victory. Lucky ducks

# ¿ Apr 7, 2024 15:23

DaysBefore: Jan 24, 2019

Building a giant concrete wall in the North Sea and painting it to look like the ocean is now a core part of NATO's plan for war with Russia

# ¿ Apr 7, 2024 15:30

DaysBefore: Jan 24, 2019

fizziester posted:

Source: CNN

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/04/08/europe/ukraine-lose-war-us-congress-zelensky-intl/index.html

Ukraine �will lose the war� if US fails to approve aid, says Zelensky
By Christian Edwards and Maria Kostenko, CNN
Updated 9:33 PM EDT, Mon April 8, 2024
3 minute read

Ukraine �will lose the war� if the United States Congress does not approve military aid to help it resist Russia�s invasion, President Volodymyr Zelensky said.

�It�s important to specifically address the Congress: if the Congress doesn�t help Ukraine, Ukraine will lose the war,� Zelensky said Sunday during a video meeting of the Ukrainian fund-raising group UNITED24.

�If Ukraine loses this war, other countries will be attacked. This is a fact,� he said.

Zelensky�s warning, among his starkest since the war began more than two years ago, comes as Congress has for months refused to pass a package of aid for Ukraine, leaving Kyiv to battle manpower and ammunition shortages while an emboldened Russia pounds Ukraine�s cities with missiles and tests for weak spots along the front line.

The US Senate passed a $95.3 billion foreign aid bill with assistance for Ukraine and Israel in February, but House Speaker Mike Johnson has so far refused to hold a vote on passing the package for Ukraine.

Zelensky previously told CNN that �millions� could die in Ukraine�s war with Russia if US lawmakers do not approve the aid package.

When Russia launched its invasion in February 2022, it thought it would take Kyiv in days and the rest of the country in weeks. In what proved to be a disastrous miscalculation for Moscow, Ukraine repelled the initial assault on its capital and, later in 2022, reclaimed some of the territories overrun by Russia.

The frontlines have since been largely static, with Russia continuing to occupy around a fifth of Ukraine�s territory. Despite optimism that Ukraine could reclaim more of its occupied territories, its counteroffensive in the summer of 2023 failed to significantly pierce Russia�s defenses. Ukraine�s then-Commander in Chief conceded the war had entered a �stalemate.�

Since the start of this year, Russia � enjoying a huge advantage in manpower and technology � has attempted to seize the initiative, bombarding Ukraine�s cities with missiles and forcing Ukraine to retreat from the eastern town of Avdiivka.

Franz-Stefan Gady, an associate fellow at the International Institute for Strategic Studies, told CNN the war in Ukraine had entered a �transitional phase.�

�Russia is conducting probing attacks along the front line. It is trying to advance where it can. And it is preparing what seems to be a future offensive down the road,� he said.

While European countries have tried to replace US aid, Gady said there was �no substitute� for the support Washington can provide.

�This year, Ukraine really needs US support. There�s certain weapons systems, certain logistical support which the European countries simply cannot provide to Ukraine� such as air defense systems, he said...

drat if their entire war effort is hinging on unlimited support from a political unreliable 'ally' then it sounds unsustainable and they should surrender to stop the needless killing

# ¿ Apr 9, 2024 18:08

DaysBefore: Jan 24, 2019

Officer Sandvich posted:

https://www.thenation.com/article/culture/american-library-association-ukrainian-nazis/

Why Is the American Library Association Whitewashing the History of Ukrainian Nazis?

In honoring a book depicting Ukrainian volunteers in the Waffen SS as heroes and patriots, the group reveals historical ignorance—or indifference to antisemitism.

Lol cool. That's so cool

# ¿ Apr 13, 2024 02:12

DaysBefore: Jan 24, 2019

Palladium posted:

western shitlibs will be claiming stab-in-the-backs faster than ukrainians, its soooo predictable

They already are that's the true message behind all the 'give us more artillery shells' articles and posts. Once Ukraine finally surrenders the unwinnable war NATO pushed them into the entire narrative from both Ukrainian freaks and Western talking heads will be 'gee the boys from SS Blood Und Soil Regiment 147 would've had them if only we got more shells'

fizziester posted:

Source: Radio Free Europe

https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-mobilization-law-criticism-manpower/32903913.html

Many Critics, Few Enthusiasts As Ukraine Moves To Fill The Ranks For The Fight Against Russia's Invasion\
By Aleksander Palikot
April 13, 2024 12:19 GMT

KYIV -- Dmytro Yasynok showed up at the recruitment office of the Da Vinci Wolves Battalion two days after a Russian bomb hit the center of his hometown of Bilopillya. The 27-year-old civil-law lecturer came to Kyiv from Sumy, more than 300 kilometers east, near the Russian border, to join the ranks of a popular unit that promises recruits real training and decent service conditions.

His hands shook as he went through a 20-minute interview with a recruiter, held in an art-deco drama theater in the capital. He'd prefer to be a sniper, a drone operator, or a combat medic. But with no military experience, he will most likely have to serve in a basic infantry position, the recruiter, Maksym, told RFE/RL.

Yasynok will soon spend a trial week at a training center, and then officially join up or head back home. As the third spring since the Russian full-scale invasion blooms, millions of Ukrainians like him struggle to find their place in a stark wartime reality that's getting harder and harder for civilians to escape.

On April 11, after months of delays and heated debate, the Ukrainian parliament approved a mobilization bill seeking to replenish the country's army and address some of the burning issues. The legislation, which President Volodymyr Zelenskiy is expected to sign, comes as the depleted Ukrainian forces suffer setbacks on the front lines amid a shortage of ammunition and a lack of new U.S. weapons supplies leaves the country increasingly vulnerable to Russian attacks.

With many of the initial proposals on sanctions for draft evasion watered down and other widely expected measures excluded from the bill -- above all a framework for the demobilization of exhausted soldiers -- its many critics argue it will not fix a recruitment system that is widely regarded as broken.

'Busification'

The method of recruitment offered by the Da Vinci Wolves Battalion, which unlike most other units carries out its own recruitment campaign -- the slogan: "Everyone will fight" -- bears little resemblance to the realities of the draft in Ukraine. The days when volunteers were lining up in front of the military enlistment offices after Russia launched its full-scale invasion in February 2022 are long gone.

A month ago, Tymofiy, 28, was working as a project manager in the IT industry in the western city of Lviv, which has been targeted in missile attacks but is far from the front. Now he lives in barracks in central Ukraine and is training for the war.

He wouldn't be here if not for a trip to the Carpathian Mountains, where he was stopped by conscription officers -- most of them veterans with visible war wounds -- who bundled him onto a bus and drove him to an enlistment office. Within a few hours, he had been interviewed, photographed, and examined by a medical commission.

"It's what people call 'busification,'" Tymofiy told RFE/RL -- one of the ways the military snares mobilization-age men off the streets as it struggles to fill the ranks...

... Yuriy, 34, was drafted in February during a business trip to Chernivtsi, a city about 40 kilometers from the Romanian border. He said he was approached by men in uniforms and told he needed to register at the draft office, as he was in the border area.

As an employee of a pharmaceutical company working with the Health Ministry, he had a document exempting him from military service, but recruiters at the draft office said they couldn't open the file on their computer. The medical commission qualified him as fit for service despite his severe nearsightedness...

... He keeps a high spirit although he believes that most people around him were drafted unwillingly, their morale is low, many of them have weak health, and the army organization is poor. He recently finished military training abroad. He wanted to operate a drone, but he would operate anti-tank weapons...

... No Demobilization Framework

The day before the Rada vote, it became clear that a provision outlining rules for the demobilization of those currently serving in the armed forces would not be included, a big blow to soldiers exhausted by months and years of warfare -- and to their families as well...'

... A Workable Compromise?

The initial response to the bill suggests that it's a compromise that few Ukrainians fully approve of -- and that some doubt will be workable.

Maryana Bezuhla, a deputy from Servant of the People, said that the law was "as soft and confusing as possible" and that while it leaves a lot of avenues to postpone or avoid the draft "not everyone is satisfied anyway" and "months were lost" before it came to a vote.

Volodymyr Vyatrovych, a deputy from the opposition European Solidarity party, said the bill was not only "bad but also belated."

"[It] will not strengthen the mobilization of new [soldiers] but may well weaken the motivation of those who have been defending the country for years," he said.

It's getting a lukewarm reception in the military as well. Maksym Zhorin, a deputy commander of the 3rd Assault Brigade, warned not to expect miracles on the battlefield. "For sure, it will generally bring a little more order and systemic approach to the issue of mobilization," he said on television, but he added, "Personally, I would make it much tougher and also continue to reduce the conscription age."...

... According to Zelenskiy, there are 880,000 soldiers in the armed forces. It is not clear how many of them are actually fighting. In February, Zelenskiy said that 31,000 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed since February 2022. Other estimates, including from U.S. officials citing intelligence, are much higher -- up to 70,000 killed and 120,000 wounded.

How are they not mutinying yet. Jesus

# ¿ Apr 14, 2024 15:53

DaysBefore: Jan 24, 2019

Virtual Russian posted:

How would we know? I'd bet it has been happening.

DJJIB-DJDCT posted:

If we're being told about people malingering, straggling, deserting etc. and the two or three times a unit straight up refused to follow orders into danger, probably there is more going on. Remember Ukraine cracked down super hard on soldiers filming those video appeals a while back.

True. And also as bad as the Donbass line seems to be it's not, like, Verdun. Still it's amazing that an army comprised of militant fascist groups that refuse to fight and middle-aged conscripts has stayed together this long

# ¿ Apr 14, 2024 16:13

DaysBefore: Jan 24, 2019

Regarde Aduck posted:

Probably should surrender

# ¿ Apr 15, 2024 13:18

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# ¿ May 12, 2024 12:29

DaysBefore: Jan 24, 2019

Deng criticized which is not only fine but encouraged so long as you aren't a stupid lib about it and also he didn't repudiate all the good done. Khrushchev just tried to bury Uncle Joe lol

# ¿ Apr 16, 2024 17:02

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Ukraine] another dawn is breaking in Mosciv and it's still Russian

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