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Admiralty Flag
Jun 7, 2007

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MrL_JaKiri posted:

Computer, make an outfit capable of disgusting Jake Sisko

Easy, the replicator materializes an Angel One outfit for Quark.

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Jun 7, 2007

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Soul Dentist posted:

She had a visceral dislike of both Janeway and Paris, so eh. She loves the character of Picard, so she's excited for it no matter what, and I'm excited for SNW after. I'm watching Enterprise for the first time with her and was also impressed with the repair station episode

It's a shame that the TNG character of Picard is absent from the series of the same name.

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Jun 7, 2007

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davidspackage posted:

If I recall right, his character was gay!*

*not mentioned in movie

Enjoy your representation, gay ppl

IIRC his character's name was Lt. Hawk. Not the sort of name you should have wasted on a redshirt.

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Jun 7, 2007

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Beeftweeter posted:

technically it's mirror t'pol but she does trick tucker into thinking they banged with a mind meld

Imma gonna give the mirror universe episodes a pass on going over the top of good taste and decorum because they're mirror universe episodes (and they didn't do one a season like DS9 to make the concept stale)

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Jun 7, 2007

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MuddyFunster posted:

Another thing I should have pointed out; the ample Gates McFadden screen time gave me a chance to finally register just how oddly she moves about the place. Forearms up, elbows at her side, hips shimmying and swaying about like she's about to break into a tap dance number. I know she's got a background in dance, but I never really thought about it before. It reminds me of Christopher Walken when he's not blatantly dancing, just generally moving around in scenes.

Do remember the casting notes were for the doctor to have the shimmy of "a striptease artist," so maybe McFadden was just sticking to the original intent of the character.

I like "Remember Me" a lot, but feel they gave away the mystery too early in the episode with the scenes in the "normal" universe. Tension could've been heightened further, I think. Plus it's the return of pedo-van Traveler.

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Jun 7, 2007

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All y’all tripping. Squire of Gothos rocked. Just probably 10 minutes too long. To compare it to Charlie X is a crime.

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Jun 7, 2007

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MuddyFunster posted:

I cannot imagine the sweaty fury between parts 1 and 2 of Best of Both Worlds, holy poo poo I would have exploded.
I've probably told this story before, but here goes, and yes, I know how old the story makes me, thank you. I was back in college talking with a friend before class started. I knew him to be a fellow traveller of sorts, so I said, "Man, I haven't seen Star Trek in like a year, but there was a two-parter on last night that blew my mind!"

He looks at me, really pissed, and said, "I've been waiting six months to find out how that turns out, and here you are stumbling into it by accident!"

I don't remember for sure but I'm pretty certain the TV station (the entities that used to control what you could watch at any given time on one of four different channels) played part 1 right before part 2, because I wouldn't have been as blown away by the show if it had been the recap plus part 2.

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Jun 7, 2007

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Tom Tucker posted:

Was just thinking about how awesome Remember Me was in TNG. The slow burn of the mystery really created an amazing atmosphere and the tone of desperation and loneliness it captured was awesome. But randomly thought about it today because I loved when Crusher goes to the rest of the crew and is like "I know I sound crazy but this impossible thing is happening" and the whole crew is like "....ok" and despite it being nuts takes her 100% seriously and immediately start brainstorming possibilities. It really drives home the trust amidst insane stuff a starfleet crew must go through.

Easily one of my favorite TNG episodes but I often skip it on re-watches because Gates McFadden absolutely crushes it and her performance of panic and isolation is super stressful.

You should all re-watch it it rocks.

The one problem with the episode is that Wesley &/or the Traveller show up halfway through, letting you know there's parallel universe shenanigans going on too early. Or at least that's how I remember it.

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Jun 7, 2007

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A.o.D. posted:

The Vorta have a terrible odor, not inherently but because they can't smell when they are funky. They can, however, hear when others start to complain.

And Nausicaans have no noses!

"Well, how do they smell?"

Terrible!

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Jun 7, 2007

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MuddyFunster posted:

The Perfect Mate is an interesting, delicate little story that keeps things very low key and conversational without getting too trashy with the subject matter...Man, this show really knows how to twist the knife sometimes.
I disagree with the first sentence. It's too much, even though they didn't go teenage sex comedy with it. She's literally born and bred to satisfy the male gaze. The crew capitulates to necessity and her insistence that this is what she she is meant for, even though she's been indoctrinated for this all her life.

The only thing that partially redeems the episode is the pathos of her morning after with Picard. And the episode adds on a couple of other scenes after that (when the betrothed comes in, I n the transporter room), diluting the effect, instead of just leaving Picard even more alone than he was before, and Kamala (I think that was her name) walking out to an unfulfilled life driven by duty.

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Jun 7, 2007

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zoux posted:

I'm going to submit that the Battle of Khitomer sequence in TUC has the highest concentration of badass moments in any Trek property.

"Fly her apart then"
Kirk clenching his hand "FIRE"
"Target that explosion and fire"
Chang's whole deal, I love how he orders attacks with the casual overhand point, and the way he leaps out of his seat into the frame when he realizes the torpedo is tracking him
"I'd pay real money if he'd shut up"
You didn't mention Spock's seemingly laconic but near-panicked, "Key, please, Doctor; time is short." Nimoy just nails that line.

Everything except "fly her apart then" -- found because I remembered Sulu's "target" quote as being a little clumsier; glad I was wrong: https://youtu.be/fg58hVEY5Og?si=qqWU2z9eO7i5ZL1V

A tight bit of filmmaking, with the tension heightening as the sniper rifle's being assembled in cutaways.

Vaguely related: I've always liked TUC more than TWOK (or any of the others), but for my money the best shot in any Trek movie comes from TWOK. Khan's "The override...Where's the damned override?" as the camera swings over the myriad, unlabeled buttons of the helm station in a desperate swoop back and forth. Both funny and tense, conveying exactly his frustration and panic. It's a nothing shot, only on screen for about 2 seconds, but it stuck with me since the first time I saw it back in the theatre. (Probably because I wondered how they kept all those identical buttons straight when flying the ship.)

Eta: I read somewhere that Shatner wanted Plummer in this movie in part because he got his big break as Plummer's understudy in Henry V. Plummer took ill, Shatner took the character in a completely different direction than Plummer had, and got raves for it, which jumpstarted his career. Don't know if it's true.

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Jun 7, 2007

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At warp 10, the impossible in evolution happens: Harry Kim becomes a Lieutenant JG.

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Jun 7, 2007

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Atlas Hugged posted:

Star Trek V might be better than Star Trek III.
On the strength of the trinity's relationship and, of course, the line, "What does God need with a starship?" you might be right.

Counterpoint: the fan dance

They're pretty close.

My hot take is VI > II > IV (don't actually know if that's a hot take)

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Jun 7, 2007

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Pwnstar posted:

Potential crew member for my dream Star Trek tv series: A Romulan member of Starfleet who expresses their ingrained desire to be plotting/scheming/betraying through childish pranks. Syncing the transporters with opening of a door to materialise a bucket of water over the Captain's head when they enter their quarters etc.

Doing this to Captain Pike's magnificent mane would rightfully get you exiled to the dilithium mines of Rura Penthe

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Jun 7, 2007

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Don’t underestimate a really good root beer. I’ve had some made by microbreweries that are amazing.

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Jun 7, 2007

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disaster pastor posted:

I could be wrong, but I feel like there are more episodes where the character in question is like "I'm imagining things" or "I'm losing it" or "something's wrong with me" while the others are still saying "no, we're not prepared to say that, there might still be a thing and we're going to keep trying to find it."

I mean, when loving Reg Barclay shows up and insists he sees worms in the matter stream during transport, the outcome isn't "Shut up, Broccoli" or "Get some sleep, Reg;" rather, Geordi pulls the entire system apart looking for what's going on.

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Jun 7, 2007

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zoux posted:

Nominating "I cannot defeat this Klingon. All I can do is kill him" as the hardest loving line in any trek series

Quote the whole thing!

"I yield. I cannot defeat this Klingon. All I can do is kill him, and that no longer holds my interest."

Worf jobs for the whole sequence of being captured but it's for a point other than showing how badass the threat of the week is. A welcome change of pace.

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Jun 7, 2007

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A.o.D. posted:

Jobs? He wins every fight except for the last one, and that's likely only because the Jem Hadar were constantly throwing him into the ring. If he'd lost before that, he wouldn't have lasted to the boss fight.

I stand corrected. I only remember him getting the poo poo beat out of him every time but forgot that he had to win to get there.

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Jun 7, 2007

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zoux posted:

That double handed fist strike is the ultimate techinique.

This is flying jump kick erasure.


On BBC America right now: "Remember Me." A good episode that could have been a TNG GOAT ep, if not for (1) ruining the mystery a bit more than halfway through and (2) the appearance of hyperpedo The Traveler.

As someone pointed out last time this ep was brought up, it goes a long way toward worldbuilding that weird poo poo goes on aboard the Enterprise all the time, and they go through tons and tons of hoops to probe Beverly's suspicions before they start saying she's possibly crazy* -- even when the crew is down to 230 and she steps in it publicly on the bridge, Picard is like, "I have no choice but to believe you" and then orders the return of the ship to Starbase 133.

* Worf is as usual correct from the start -- "if he came aboard, where are his possessions?" -- but of course he is ignored/cut off a couple of times during the episode. He's just the guy in charge of evaluating threats to the ship and reacting appropriately; why listen to him?

Edit: 3rd reason -- Deanna's back to the mauve cameltoe onesie after wearing a uniform in the prior ep (with the human child raised by militaristic aliens).

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Jun 7, 2007

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Taear posted:

No sorry this is insanity
Enterprise and Voyager both have pretty rubbish characters but I think at least Enterprise has a solid 4 and Voyager only has...two?

This is Tuvok erasure, though the credit for the character is to the actor and not the writers (most of the time).

As one of the ENT defenders in the thread, I reluctantly have to agree that when VOY is firing on all cylinders, it can be better than ENT. But it's such a rare occasion that VOY can get everything pointed toward a great ep that ENT wins by a significant margin on the average episode.

ENT also stretches toward seriality, while VOY stubbornly hit the reset button at most every opportunity.

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Jun 7, 2007

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Can you imagine being Ben having to tell Troi in the middle of 10-Forward that he had to send back her Death by Chocolate because she's over her nutritional limits for the month?

Rather be one of the three redshirts accompanying Kirk, Spock, & McCoy down to the Planet of Acid-Based Explosive Rocks that Blow Up if You Look Funny at Them.

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Jun 7, 2007

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Jun 7, 2007

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davidspackage posted:

Be great if that happened and Troi just stares at him, and then he starts convulsing and falls on the floor with blood coming out of his eyes because it just turns out Betazoids can do that.

Followed by

Worf: "Captain, I recommend we confine Counselor Troi to quarters, if not the brig. She was the only member of the ship's complement in 10-Forward at the time with psychic powers, and waiter Ben had just delivered bad news to her."

Picard: "I value your input, Mr. Worf, but I am not going to imprison a member of my command crew based on supposition and hearsay."

Worf: *Throws hands in air, slams PADD on table* "Why do you even have a loving security chief, sir?"

Picard: "That'll be all, Mr. Worf." *Turns to replicator as Worf storms out* "Tea, Earl Grey...extra hot." *Muses to self that no one has figured out that 'hot' and its modifiers tell the replicator how much brandy to add to the cup*

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Jun 7, 2007

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Arivia posted:

It’s worth remembering that the costume design for the original series and the next generation (at least the first few seasons) of Star Trek were done by an incredibly influential, super acclaimed fashion designer, William Ware Theiss*.

Theiss infamously didn’t care about how wearable his ST costumes were, especially for women, but he did see his costumes as an opportunity to push design in ways he couldn’t in contemporary clothing on or off the runway. So some of it was wearable, some was meant to be very aspirational. In other words, Theiss set the standard for Star Trek clothing NOT being something you’d wear around the real world time of production.

*Theiss also helped defeat the Nazis by developing inflatable tanks for D-Day.

That bit about the inflatable tanks -- were those the decoys in England, or the DD amphibious tanks (which had an inflatable bladder?) I couldn't find anything with some quick googling/Memory Alpha-ing. Either way, it's cool -- another TOS Trek guy affiliated with victory at D-Day (cf. Doohan, James).

Went looking for the exact quote and found it on Memory Alpha:

quote:

His female garment style can be summed up in the "Theiss Theory of Titillation"...which stated "the degree to which a costume is considered sexy is directly dependent upon how accident-prone it appears to be."

eta.1: So much for the D-Day connection.

eta.2: The season 1-2 TNG costumes -- looking at the comic pages that were posted, they looked really good, but they were on inhuman physiology and without concern for practicalities. I wonder if it was a case of, "The sketches look great, let's run with those," and it being too late to circle into anything else once the first few were done and trialed.

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Jun 7, 2007

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disaster pastor posted:

It wasn't back to back, it was late S2 and early S3, about nine months apart. They wanted Jessica Walter, actually, for "Is There in Truth No Beauty?" but couldn't make it work, so grabbed Muldaur again because the director knew her from her previous episode.

How much could a protective visor cost, Michael? 10 quatloos?

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Jun 7, 2007

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dr_rat posted:

It helps you forget that you just saw what remained of your co worker after the transporter accident.

Why did he have to give O'Brien lip, why???

Excuse me, sir, it was proven conclusively by the transporter engineering team that was a freak accident and in no way the Chief's fault, and there's no one on the ship who can prove otherwise.

Now if you'll excuse me, the Chief has a vintage bottle of Jameson's he's opening in his quarters for a little get together. What's that? Umm, no sir, I'm afraid it's a little crowded and there's no room for anyone else besides the engineering team.

Oh, apropos of nothing, I've heard you have an away mission coming up. Before you go, I would really appreciate it if you could authorize some additional time for me in the Holodeck for...let's call it training. I'd hate for the doubts you voiced that I just happen to capture with my tricorder to get around before your important trip off the ship, if you know what I mean, sir. Might be bad...for morale, of course. That's all I meant, sir. I hope we understand each other. I'd hate for there to be a breakdown...in communications between us.

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Jun 7, 2007

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Tighclops posted:

Miles O'Brien is climbing the mountain;

Gilmore is waiting for the rope to drop down

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Jun 7, 2007

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SlothfulCobra posted:

Piloting the ship seems like an important job to have a named character on the bridge doing, even though it's usually done by more junior officers. His job gets taken up by random extras and Wesley. I think most Trek shows have pilot characters, like Chekov and Mayweather.

<snip>

I don't really remember what Sulu's official job was either, but I haven't watched that much of TOS I guess. Data's job title is some weird thing that I don't think shows up anywhere else in the series.
Sulu was the pilot (helmsman); Chekov was the navigator (guy who plotted the course to optimize route/avoid black holes/etc.). Sulu had the wheel and stepped on the pedals; Chekov plotted the route on Google maps and controlled the tunes.

Data was the Operations Officer. The story goes that he needed to be in a gold uniform for his makeup to work best, so instead of making him the science officer (blue), they created this catchall position that ran ship's systems -- including secondary control over helm and navigation (with primary in the right BarcaLounger) -- which would be an gold uniform on analogy with engineering and security -- and kludged it all that way to make it make sense.

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Jun 7, 2007

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MikeJF posted:

Helmsman was always a bit tricky, as the 90s trek shows found out, because they don't really have an established role to play in figuring out most plot.
In TOS, Helm was also responsible for weapons (and sometimes shields, but usually Chekov handled those I think); in TNG, those were all relegated to Worf (when Data wasn't handling tricksy maneuvers with modulating frequencies or the like), so less for the Helm to do.

And when helm skills are critical in TNG, the Captain will say, "gently caress you, I'mma going to pilot the shuttle through the dark matter field; eat my wake, suckas.*"

* May not be a direct quote from Captain Picard in that episode.

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Jun 7, 2007

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Lemniscate Blue posted:

Enlisted crewmembers, I have no idea. Gold and blue shirts yeah, they obviously work in those areas. I'm not sure what a red-shirted enlisted crewmember would do but obviously we've seen them around. Admin, maybe?
Have we seen an enlisted TNG red shirt? Gold for O'Brien, of course, and Blue for crewman Tarses, but if all red shirts are explicitly line officers then why would any enlisted personnel be red? Maybe the guy who monitors the auxiliary conn inputs because the conn officer usually seems to be red (except when it's Data or Wesley)? Or is that just because of the butter bars scenario you posit? Not that we have a lot of enlisted Starfleet personnel to go by.

Supporting your line officer thesis is the fact that all the cadets wear red -- they're theoretically unlimited coming out of the academy, but some will go to science and others will gravitate toward engineering and yet more will suffer CTE repeatedly and then volunteer for security (which is admittedly a safer career path in the TNG era than the TOS era).

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Jun 7, 2007

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Atlas Hugged posted:

The contingent of soldiers who are there to remind us to support the troops are the literal worst edition to Trek and that includes all of Picard.

Was going to make a joke about how their redeeming feature was the MACO officer and Reed being the first on-screen same-sex couple in Trek, but that might make someone actually want to watch an episode featuring Reed, and I can't have that on my head.

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Jun 7, 2007

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Atlas Hugged posted:

Season 3's thesis seems to be "it's ok to commit crimes against humanity if 9/11".
Season 3 has this reputation, not wholly unearned as "24 in space." But during the season, just off the top of my head from my one time watching it several years ago:
  • Archer realizes kidnapping civilian scientists who worked on the weapon is wrong and out of line with his morality
  • Archer comes to realize not all the Xindi are warmongers -- in fact, it turns out very few of them are; most have just been jostled into an aggressive posture because of the doomsaying that's widely believed throughout the culture
  • He realizes that false imprisonment and torture are ineffective and unreliable as tools for getting what you need (the fake shuttlepod)
  • The leader of their mortal enemies comes around to be their ally through the power of diplomacy and turning the other cheek
  • Being vulnerable and laying out the truth cuts through the lies and wins through in the end
  • One race of aliens is just irredeemable and has to get flying jump kicked (it is Star Trek, after all)

Archer grows into Federation values during S3. He may still be sort of an rear end, but it's a whole season of him growing from what might be an early 21st Century human to a man of tomorrow.

I'll go so far as to say that S3 as a whole is (barely) a good season of Trek, certainly better than most of Voyager, even before adding NuTrek to the average to drag it down. It's not perfect -- far from to -- but it has to be viewed in its entirety and understood as a character arc, not just a story arc. And this is just talking about Archer; it's not even getting into the other characters, who can be delightful on occasion (admit it, you love Trip, it's OK, he's engineered that way, like a poodle or something), or into the start of Trek serialization, for which we had been crying out for nigh on years.

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edit: ^^^ That's a completely fair point. Again, the problem of having to fill a whole season with this story arc. If the NX-01 crew had found their better angels sooner, could they have made 26 or however many episodes work? Maybe a couple of eps dealing with their long-lasting impacts on the Xindi sector (the name of the expanse is slipping my mind right now)? Retooling Xindi society? Finding those guys they stole from? I don't know.


Railing Kill posted:

ENT S3 is better than all but the best of VOY. Maybe I should try watching it again. Archer's petulance and the season being 4-6 episodes too long stick most in my mind. I remember thinking, "give the angry post-9/11 petulance to Trip! He has a more specific reason for it, and his actor is better at it!" I also remember at least a few episodes that are like, why are we doing this? That season should have been 16 eps if they weren't in the obligatory ~24 episode season model of network TV at the time.
I agree. If it were filmed in the modern age it could have been a tight 12 hours or so of TV. Instead, they had to fill a season. And you are straight up right about Trip in a lot of ways, except that it had to be Archer's journey -- he couldn't be the model of a starship captain in the early-mid part of S3. Now, they could have played it with Archer starting off as the cold, calculating, amoral "Do anything the mission demands" guy and Trip being "Kill 'em all and let the Organians sort them out," but I have questions about whether Bakula could have played that tone either.

There are parts of S3 that are straight-up garbage, I won't deny that (the recently-referenced piracy that's never addressed again is a big contender; huge dangling plot line and moral thread), but I think S3 suffers unfairly by comparison to S4 (which is, true, superior in so many ways) and from meming ("24 in space!") & oversimplification.

It's been close to a decade since I watched Enterprise front-to-back. Maybe I'll put it in queue. Have to find a watchlist for S1 & S2 though; even I won't try to defend those as a whole.

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Jun 7, 2007

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I'm a big Spectre of the Gun defender (but I'm a big ENT defender, so take that as you will). There's something wonderful about the episode set being like that of a school play, so minimalist and bare, that lets us know this is all an adventure of the mind more surely than a swirling CGI montage today would.

Has:
* Crew placed in no-win situation by incredibly advanced beings for their own education /amusement (can't remember which)
* Great Chekov scream
* Wit and cleverness among the crew to make the gas grenades -- to no avail!
* Spock mind melding
* Captain Kirk flying jump kicking a fool
* The episode ending on a Chekovism -- "The only thing real for him was the woman, so he was never in danger"

It's more a feeling than an episode. 8/10.

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Jun 7, 2007

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Squizzle posted:

for tng, you start someone off using the Enterprise Ds: darmok, data's day, drumhead, disaster. introduces all of the main cast, their roles on the ship and in the narrative dynamic, and gives four varied types of trek story. none of them are the Best TNG, so you arent introducing someone and then saying “and everything else is downhill from here!!” but they are all good trek

This is quite possibly a good post. But part of me asks, "Why not throw a real banger in there to keep interest up?" Show what this Trek thing can do. To that end, I would add Q Who early (though not first; maybe Data's Day?) as an introduction to Q and the Borg (and provide an excuse to skip the pilot) as well as provide a real "WTF?/Did that just happen?" factor.

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Zaroff posted:

Probably The Enterprise Incident.

I always forget that's a 3rd season ep, as well as Day of the Dove, which is another I'd consider.

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Jun 7, 2007

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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:

I would honestly rate V above all the TNG and JJTrek movies, including First Contact (which is my pick for the best of the TNG lot). But if I were showing these movies to someone trying to get a feel for TOS, I'd probably stick with 2, 4, and maybe 3 if they were up to it.

If the subject is of a certain age (or I suppose a student of the right period of history), 6 should definitely be on the list, probably replacing 4. But it just won't land the same way for kids these days.

I prefer 6 to 2, but I can also see how without its allegorical strength it loses some of its punch. But I'd say it's more of a Trek movie than 2: making galactic friends even through a history of strife and conflict; fighting to change the minds that can be changed and consigning the obsolete rearguard to history. Sure, it's essentially done at phaser-point -- at least making the principals listen to the truth is -- but so was disarming the intolerable situation in A Taste of Armeggedon, for example.

edit:

Big Mean Jerk posted:

I think V is maybe two choices/events away from being way better remembered than it is; 1) actually getting Connery for Sybok.
Excuse me...why does Trek need two Scotsmen?

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Dr. Sneer Gory posted:

I have used Devil in the Dark to intro a few people to TOS, and I think it's a good one because it has a lot of the actual tropes of Star Trek, and not so much the pop culture ones like Kirk Drift.

You have a weird/rubbery deadly monster that turns out to have a tragic and sympathetic reason for it's actions, Spock doing mind meld stuff, a little look at the intensity of the Kirk/Spock relationship, McCoy getting some good McCoy dialogue and medical miracle, and an end where knowledge and empathy win over fear and hate. Even the miners, rough and tumble and full of anger, feel remorse over their actions and are able to create a healthy partnership with the Horta and her children, and for her part, is able to look past the ugly devils who destroyed so many of her eggs.
I'd just say :emptyquote: but that's too low-effort for your post. You picked out a great sleeper.

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Jun 7, 2007

to ride eternal, shiny and chrome

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zoux posted:

33 is so loving good

One of the best hours of TV in any genre, let alone sci-fi. The show dips a little coming off the miniseries, but then 33 grabs you by the throat and carries you through looking for the same high. The only complaint is, as the first episode of the series, it's all downhill. The show only infrequently reaches the same heights of tension: Gaeta networking the computers, New Caprica, and the insurrection are the only ones that come to mind. Maybe Splashdown's episode.

It's that loving good.

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Jun 7, 2007

to ride eternal, shiny and chrome

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2022

F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:

Very true, and although it's definitely not the most complex game my circle of friends has played, there's an intimidating list of rules and stuff to watch for when you're a new player. It'd also make for an exceptionally long game if you played all the variants: Pegasus, Ionian Nebula, New Cap and Daybreak in a single session.

But why would anyone ever play New Cap or especially Ionian Nebula? The Cylon Fleet Board was the only good thing to come out of Exodus.

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