Warhammer 40K 10e: Karen Draws, the Pheonix Lord

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Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

If we wanted to play a good game, we wouldn't be playing 40K.

https://youtu.be/RbhcRKsRwFM?t=71

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Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

Random compilation of effortposts to salvage from the last thread:

Gift ideas:

Cease to Hope posted:

Tossing out some hobby gift advice for Eargesplitten or whoever else is encouraging a new hobbyist, in a form that can be handed off to parents or relatives:

The DSPIAE sprue nippers are luxury ones but don't go for quite as much as God Hands. (They're very good clones, good enough to have their own rep.) They go for about $40-60 and some of the Gunpla importers sell rebranded ones; if you look them up, you'll get an eye for which single-blade rebrands have the same exact shape but with an engraved store logo. They're a "treat these carefully" kind of gift, so maybe not for someone younger who hasn't ruined a set of clippers or two. It's something you find in specialist hobby stores, mainly online.

If they're old enough for Xacto blades, Xacto tool blades are super handy. #28 concave curve blades (with a sickle style edge, sometimes called stitchcutter blades) and hobby saw blades are super useful, the former for cleaning mold lines and the latter for kitbashes or base modeling, but lots of people just don't know that they exist. A second Xacto handle at the same time is handy as heck; a cheap one or clone is usually as good as a name brand. No need to get the big chunky "comfort" handles that cost like $20-25 and are aimed at papercrafters. (I like the Xacto Gripster or Excel K18, both less than $10, but any handle that you open or loosen somewhere other than where you grip is good.) Hardware stores, craft stores, scale model stores, or game specialist stores are all possible places to buy the specialized blades, and you can get Xacto handles pretty much anywhere.

A jar of Vallejo terrain paste paint. It's super fun to play with and makes bases look cool as heck on it's own, and comes in a 40 ml bottle for $7-8. Just pick whatever kind of thick mud looks neat to you, since it can be repainted once it dries. Scale model/RC stores and some specialist gaming stores will have this; any place that sells scale model tanks and isn't a pure toy store is a shoo-in. If specialist model or game stores don't carry Vallejo paints, they probably know who does, or have a comparable brand (like AK or Mig) to recommend. (Citadel is GW's overpriced brand so not that.)

Green stuff, with a set of sculpting tools, ideally containing a pointed metal awl tool, a spatula of some sort, and silicone-ended sculpting tools. (They look like brushes, and cheap ones still do the job.) Green stuff is flexible, smooth-textured air-drying modeling putty and it's an absolute gamechanger. The tools are the ones that are super useful all the time; there are lots of tool sets for sculpting but lots of them are filled with useless crap or tools aimed at other types of sculpting. Green stuff is usually sold as a blue and yellow tape, or occasionally small pillars of yellow and blue material. Specialist game stores definitely sell green stuff, and modeling or RC/drone stores might. Any kind of generalist craft store might occasionally have the putty and will almost certainly have the tools. (There are other types of two-part epoxy clay, but they're more advanced and situational. Green stuff is a gamechanger when you first learn about it and everyone can use more.) A big bottle of generic moisturizing hand lotion for a couple bucks is a good companion with this, since it's the best tool and finger lubricant I've yet found. (Lasts longer than water, but still evaporates, rather than leaving residue you have to wipe off when you use grease like Vaseline.)

All of these things are things people may not know they need, but are immediately and obviously useful, and all of them are things they can use more of even if they do use them already. And except for the scalpel blades, they're all good for any age or skill level as long as they're past putting things in their mouths.

The Haters' Guide to Primaris Marines

Cease to Hope posted:

haters' guide to primaris space marines

space marines have way, way too many datasheets. they often have 2-3 datasheets where other armies would only have one. i think overloading new players with lots of bespoke special rules is a bad idea but i guess i don't work at games workshop!

phobos armor is "light" armor with one shoulderpad and lots of random tacticool pouches, although the dudes all have the normal saves and toughness and wounds profile you expect from marines. basically all phobos guys are scouts with a normal MEQ statline, on a screen/speedbump suicide mission. only the eliminators are particularly threatening. these were the strongest argument that firstborn marines had a cancel date because phobos dudes don't do anything scouts can't except exist.

incursors and infiltrators are both basically the same unit, a forward-deploy squad of marines with rifles who inevitably screen and eat poo poo. one kind of them has a big anti-deepstrike bubble so ask if you run one of those armies. eliminators look like tall sniper scouts with big camo cloaks and they are sniper scouts except that they fire and fade. they can also have sawed-off lascannon instead of sniper rifles. (it's less cool than it sounds, especially in 10e.) reivers are melee scouts with a bunch of special rules but nobody plays them because they're barely better in melee than dudes fighting with their fists. (there's a space wolf reiver variant that's kind of okay though.) phobos characters do tricky scout stuff, like fire and fade or gently caress with deployment. the most common one you'll see is the librarian, because basically gives his whole unit lone operative.

tacticus is just the regular marine armor, primaris-edition. technically it's mk 10. this is the generic marine bucket. bladeguard look like middleweight melee elites because they are, and every other unit does the thing you'd expect a marine with that type of weapon to do.

intercessors are boring bolter guys who have a grenade launcher guy that barely looks different because it's a tiny underbarrel attachment. standard boring cheap-ish objective sitters. assault intercessors are generic marines with chainswords and pistols and unremarkable in every way. bladeguard are fancy dudes with big swords, big kite shields, and poo poo covered in bones and skulls. they're typical middlewight "veteran" melee units, although they did a bit better than most such units in the 10e changeover because they're still D2, and they can get a little silly with some of the character attachments (although that's usually too many eggs in one basket). desolation squads are new from late 9e and can kiss my rear end. they're the ugly missile launcher primaris guys, and they're all armed with both a missile launcher and mortars. they ignore the penalties for shooting indirect and honestly gently caress desolators. hellblasters are a funny unit of all guys with plasma guns and they're basically suicide bombers. the plasma guns are just plasma guns, but whenever one of them dies, they can shoot again on death, even if it's from plasma overheat. infernus are the boring flamer guys from leviathan. suppressors are a unit you'll almost never see: they're jump-pack dudes with autocannon and they're only available as part of a monopose sprue that GW doesn't actually sell at the moment. they're not dudes you'll ever see anyone play, just the answer to a trivia question. tacticus characters run the widest range and can do literally anything, so check what they do first.

gravis marines are the big fat guys, with fat-looking helmets, bigger kneepads, and boots with crenelations. look a bit elite but generally aren't. they're 5" move (unless they fly), T6, and 3W. they're surprisingly durable against small arms but just eat poo poo to anything heavier than a stormbolter, lol. mainly they try to waddle in range to absolutely gently caress up something with short-ranged weapons. mostly they wish that they could grow up and be obliterators someday. several of these units are currently serving time for crimes committed during previous editions, and they're all kind of the high side points-wise for what they do. be careful, though, because all of them can be annoying (if way, way too expensive) with the addition of a character.

aggressors are the ones with horribly-ugly power fists with guns glued to them. these look a little like terminators but instead they're basically walking shotgun batteries. these shoot more bolter shots than you'd generally expect from three guys, or you can give them flamers if you thought the problem with infernus marines was that they don't also have power fists. eradicators (not to be confused with eliminators, lol) have melta guns and... shoot melta guns, you know what meltas do. horribly designed atm, since they reroll dice against the exact type of target you'd want to target with Oath of Moment anyway. heavy intercessors are... intercessors but heavy. pointless unit, and not common because they're also weirdly expensive in rl money and haven't (yet) seen much duty as value box filler. inceptors (these names get really abstract) look like fat spacemen on jetpack frames dual-wielding plasma guns, or sometimes bolters that are proxies for plasma guns. gently caress you they look cool. deepstriking suicide mission team that can land within 3", and currently pretty mediocre. gravis characters also run the gamut but there are less of them so they tend to be a little bit less wild.

bikes! i didn't know where else to put these, but they're all overpriced poo poo that sucks! outriders cost 115 for three guys with chainswords and bolters and no other interesting abilities to speak of. invader atvs might be good if they get a cost decrease because they can shoot twice as long as there's two units of them. i guess they have a lot of wounds? who cares! the end!

How To Find Cheaper Minis

Cease to Hope posted:

To save you wasting a ton of money: don't buy Citadel tools, don't buy Citadel glue. Citadel paint ranges from overpriced but worth it (contrasts, the couple of cool Technical paints), to just loving ripping you off (white, black, any Technical texture paste), but the paint starter boxes are fine if you want to grab a grab-bag of basics.

The cheapest way to find models is to get into the local discords and Facebook groups, and look for the Facebook trading group(s) for your country/state/region. ("Faction" discords are almost always terrible places to find anything worth buying, especially if you don't live in the US or UK.)There is also r/miniswap (always sort by new), which is all reddity but generally useful if you live in North America. The signal/noise in all of these is very low and you'll need to take some time to get used to what's cheap and what's actually going for 75% of GW price, but basically never pay more than 75% for GW price unless you're looking for something temporarily scarce or relatively rare. If the models are painted and you don't like the look, I also wrote a million words about how to remove paint. (Short version: 99% isopropyl, nitrile gloves, a toothbrush, and a nylon pipe cleaning brush. Don't buy painted resin models unless you like the paint.)

eBay can be useful if you're willing to set up alerts for what you're looking for, but if you're just browsing, it's a sellers'/scalpers' market and often badly overpriced unless you're willing to buy broken or otherwise hosed models and rehabilitate them. Again, eBay is a lot more useful to people in the US or UK.

NOS is "new on sprue" and basically new although more likely to lose parts in transit, NIB is "new in box" and a bit more reliable. "Recast" and "printed" are counterfeit and the quality varies wildly, and recast models are (almost) always resin regardless of what the model was originally made of. Any Forgeworld model without the original box or a certificate is probably a recast. Finecast is GW's resin versions of models to keep old ones in print, and their quality can be questionable. "Easy to build" or "monopose" models are models that don't come with the full range of wargear or pose options. Some models are only available as easy-to-build (and it looks like that's going to be the case for Barbgaunts), but if there are two versions of the unit, then the monopose models command a much lower price.

If you don't know how to be safe when buying from randos: use a payment method with buyer protection. (Paypal goods and services is pretty standard. Most direct bank transfers aren't reversible.) Asking for irreversible payments for anything but an in-person sale is a red flag, asking for crypto is 100% a scam. Always get tracked shipping unless it's an international deal where that's not possible. Be ready to replace bases or single lost parts, since that happens a lot just by accident. Check condition before buying and make sure for yourself that it will serve for your purposes. Feel free to ask people for pictures of what they're selling; don't deal with anyone who can't or won't provide a reasonable request for pictures of the models they actually have on hand.

Some stores sell used models. This is, obviously, a crapshoot, but at least you're able to inspect them in person and receive them immediately. Stores generally have higher prices than some guy, but there are many exceptions. The main thing is that there's a large knowledge gap, and stores are much more likely to demand a premium for high-quality paint jobs. The 75% of GW is a good rule of thumb to never get ripped off (as long as it's the same models that GW is currently selling and not damaged/incomplete in some way), but at least you can know that the strictly illegal ways of scamming you are much less likely.

If you want to buy models GW has announced replacement for, you can definitely find some used deals now, and even more deals pretty soon.

If you don't want to handle any of that nonsense, I don't blame you. The next-best option are the big online sellers for your country, who generally sell things for 10-15% off of GW MSRP. (You occasionally even see 20% sometimes.) In most countries, the standard is 15% off and free shipping for a large purchase. This might even be your local game store, but if they have gaming space they don't charge for, it probably isn't. Here on out, when I refer to prices, I'm referring to GW's prices unless I say otherwise, but never ever pay GW price unless you're buying something limited edition. Can't emphasize this enough.

The best value for brand-new miniatures, regardless of who you're buying them from, are value boxes. These have multiple different units, and are generally aimed at new players to the game or to a faction. Unfortunately, they're also pretty heavily scalped, so the best ones might be so scarce that they're difficult to find after the day of release. (Keep an eye on the second-hand markets; there's a lot of people who impulse-buy a big army box then get buyer's remorse and sell it for cheap.) These have an array of intentionally-confusing names, but they generally come in two variations: smaller boxes, currently running $100-160, two-faction boxes, running $150-200, and big boxes, running $200+. Also check if the boxed set has the monopose version of a unit, if there are two versions of a unit.

Small boxes are currently named "Combat Patrol: [Faction]" but have had names like Start Collecting, Boarding Patrol, or, for Age of Sigmar, Vanguard. They generally have a character, 2-3 units, and maybe an additional monster or middling-sized vehicle. These are always a good deal if you want everything in them, and usually worth it if one unit isn't something you want. Unfortunately, the last two Tyranid boxes were kind of bad, and they're both out of print anyway.

Two-faction boxes have some doofy nonsense name, like Eldritch Omens or Wrath of the Soul Forge King. Generally, they have 3-4 units for each side, and at least some of those models are either brand new or (were at the time of release) exclusive to that boxed set. You can find splits of these while they're current but there aren't any current ones atm. The limited edition boxes at the start of each edition are like these, only bigger. Generally you don't see these unless a faction is getting a bunch of updates, so Tyranids haven't seen one for almost a decade, but are decently likely to get one pretty soon. These are some of the best deals as long as you can sell the other half of the split for about half of the actual price you're going to pay. Starter boxes are like these but generally smaller and cheaper, and have some of the same units that was in the big edition-starter box, but generally are a bit worse value on a good day, and on a bad day are diluted with overpriced plastic terrain or hobby tools.

Big boxes come in a few different styles but they're all basically the same thing. They're 4-6 units, possibly one or two of them a vehicle or monster. Big line refreshes have seen one of these as a "limited edition" box, including a bunch of the new units and the accompanying new codex. They also do a box for multiple factions for Christmas. All of these boxes are, in practice, limited edition unless they completely suck. (You can still find the Admech Christmas battleforce box if you look, lol.) Generally, these are better than buying units a la carte if you think you can use more than half of it. You might be able to resell some of the stuff you don't need to defray the cost, but you aren't the first one to have this idea, so any really bad units or unique characters are likely to be glutted in resale markets.

If a price seems like it's too good to be true, you found a recaster. I'm not going to get into how to find recasters, but some of them have good enough SEO to show up in a cursory search, so it's good to know how to ID them. They're usually based in Russia, Ukraine, or China, they usually ship new models internationally, and they pretty much always sell resin models. In particular, any Forge World models on eBay that don't come with their packaging are probably recasts, even if they're from another country, since they were once much more common and many people still have them in their collection. Resin is more brittle than plastic or metal and the sculpts may have problems, but brand-new recasts of GW's resin models - Finecast models ("finely-detailed resin") or from Forge World - are generally about as good as GW's quality these days. Resin also dissolves in more solvents, so don't drop it in isopropyl or any harsher solvent to strip paint or glue.

Guides on Plastic Glue (which isn't glue)

Cease to Hope posted:

Speaking of which, a while back I found an incredible guide to using plastic cement, both to make bonds but also a bunch of secondary applications. And, for once, it's not a gd video.

For these guides, GW plastic models and bases are styrene (except for clear plastic canopies), but third-party bases may not be, even if they're plastic.

Introduction and cement types

Advanced Uses part 1

Part 2

Part 3

This is on the site of some store I've never heard of, but people said they're reputable if you live in Canada. Either way, the guides are very useful.

Stripping Paint

Cease to Hope posted:

I dunno why I wrote a whole giant effortpost for stripping paint but here it is.

First off, if the models are filthy, wash them with regular dish soap and a dish towel. Hand-safe dish soap won't damage any models as long as you don't break out an abrasive scrubber. It's not that solvents can't wash these off but it's just pointless contamination.

Regardless of what solvent you use, the basic process is the same. For handling, you want gloves (latex/rubber is always fine, nitrile almost always), and always do this in an area with active circulation or outdoors. If you're inside and can smell what you're using but can't hear the circulation, that's probably not somewhere you should be doing this.

If the solvent won't destroy the actual model, let it soak while fully immersed in a sealed container for about an hour, overnight, or a couple of days, depending on the strength of the solvent and the paint used. If the solvent will destroy the model, either let it soak for 5-15 minutes (probably best to test with scrap material) or go straight to the active cleaning. If there's some part that will be actually destroyed by the solvent that you don't care about (eg bases, the plastic parts of an old mixed metal/plastic Warhammer model), it's probably best to break most of it off as early as possible. If you can't, check daily and get the ruined part out of the soak as soon as it's easy to break off.

Whether or not you soak, the actual cleaning process is the same. Get a brush with firm flexible bristles, like a toothbrush or nylon brush. (The firmer the bristles, the lighter the touch.) You're mainly looking to push the paint off of the model, since scrubbing can lead to an uneven coat of leftover paint that smooths out all the details, or actually abrade the details of the model itself. Dab on more solvent with the brush as you go. (If the solvent will damage the model, make sure to dab it off with a paper towel after.) Once you've gotten all of the loose paint off, you can soak again if necessary. Once you're done, all of the solvents you should actually use evaporate in open air, so just let the model sit in a well-circulated or outdoor place.

As for picking solvents:

If you need to strip acrylic paint (pretty much any water- or alcohol-based paint), your best bet IMO is isopropyl alcohol, ideally 90% or 99%. You can get it in a pharmacy. (If you have them on hand, other high-concentration alcohols - methyl/ated or "denatured" alcohol, distilled spirits, everclear - can work, just not as well.) Alcohols are nonreactive with everything models are commonly made of except resin, so it won't destroy detail unless you physically abrade it off. It's also pretty much the least toxic popular choice for stripping model paint except some of the non-toxic patent cleaners. Still, use nitrile/rubber gloves and do it outdoors or in a place with active circulation.

Alcohols can be disposed of by letting them evaporate (outside!) or at paint disposal sites. (Recycling centers can often do this.) If you filter out the paint residue, most alcohols can also be dumped down the drain if you dilute them as you do, so like pouring slowly into a fully running sink or dumping them in the toilet. Concentrated alcohol or a significant amount of solid paint residue are bad for household pipes, though, and you really don't want to be dumping isopropyl into a septic system. Solid paint residue separated from the solvent is just trash. Alcohols pretty much never attack their containers, either.

If it's not acrylic paint, you will need something harsher. Unfortunately, all of these react with styrene plastic (and most other soft thermoplastics used in miniatures and model kits). However, all of these are safe for metal models and still work to remove acrylic paint, so if you want to skip straight to the harsh stuff because you have it on hand and already know how to handle it, be my guest. Anything from here on down generally needs to be disposed of at a paint or toxic household waste disposal site. Dumping them into a sewer system or regular trash is very stupid and may even be illegal.

Turpentine (not "mineral turpentine" or "odorless turpentine", the real thing) is the traditional paint thinner, and usually what people mean when they say "paint thinner" with no other qualifications. It's your best bet for removing pretty much any hobby paint, and most other paints someone might've put on a model. However, it will react with most plastics that model kits are made out of, particularly styrene, the thermoplastic most wargame models are made of. In particular, Testors, Revell, and Tamiya all have enamel lines that are or were popular for hobby paint and model kits.

Turpentine is a good balance of being actually harsh enough to work quickly without being so harsh that it's guaranteed to cause damage. You can dab, brush, and dab off on plastic models without causing too much damage. It's also similar to alcohol in that you can filter it, dispose of it by letting it evaporate outside, and in that any turpentine-soiled trash can be dried outside and then just tossed out normally. Alternately, you can just treat it as toxic waste. Note that clear containers of turpentine in the sun or bags full of turpentine-contaminated trash are both spontaneous ignition hazards. They are literally oil-soaked rags.

Acetone (non-odorless nail polish remover) is the magic bullet of last resort. It will dissolve basically any paint, basically any hobby plastic, and break down basically any hobby glue. It's the go-to to clean a model fouled with superglue, too. However, it also attacks nitrile gloves and quite a few kinds of plastic container. You can usually buy it at any pharmacy or grocery store or department store as nail polish remover, but try to get 100% acetone since there are other solvents used in some nail polish removers. (And "odorless nail polish remover" is not acetone at all.) You can also occasionally get it as glue remover, although there are a few other common solvents sold under that name.

The main reason you'd need acetone is because someone used lacquer paint, a spray paint/varnish intended for actual cars or outdoor furniture, or something completely bizarre like house paint or nail polish. (There are hobby lacquer paints from companies like Tamiya or AK but they're mainly aimed at model cars or RC/drone vehicles, which are made from different plastics.) Any plastic model with a paint like this is a writeoff unless you can just paint over it. When working with it, do it outside or with an actual fume hood, and wear actual rubber/latex gloves. (Again, acetone dissolves nitrile.)

The actual acetone in the container it was sold in is a hazard but pretty typical household one, on par with camping fuel or spraycans. Don't keep it somewhere hot, don't leave it in the sun. If you need a new container, metal, glass and HDPE (recycle #2) plastic are nonreactive, and an opaque container is better. It attacks a number of common kinds of plastic, including recycle #1 and #3. While HDPE itself is fine, other plastics with that same sort of milk-jug texture generally aren't. You technically can filter acetone to reuse it, but that means a lot more tools you need to check for safety and more contaminated trash, and unlike weaker solvents, it tends to have more dissolved contamination from reaction products. It's not worth it.

Contaminated acetone is toxic waste. Acetone-soaked trash is both toxic waste and a spontaneous ignition hazard, like oil-soaked rags. All of that goes to paint disposal sites. Spills in well-ventilated spaces are not a big deal since acetone evaporates (unless it can damage what it was spilled on), but you don't want to dispose of a container of it that way.

Isopropyl, turpentine, and acetone aren't your only options. They're just the best ones, since you can get them as pure chemical rather than mixed solutions or secret formulas. Everyone has some sort of home remedy, and most of them can kinda work, if you're willing to work around their disadvantages.

First off, there are lots of things that seem like they work but don't actually do anything to paint. You can rub off pretty much any paint with simple mechanical abrasion. These are all basically comparable to soap and water, and you can have some success with some paints, especially older or cheaper acrylics on older unprimed miniatures. Mechanical action always risks abrading or crushing detail if you use too harsh a cleaning surface, do it for too long, or use too much pressure.

Actual abrasives are an option. Toothpaste, any gritty household cleaner, a wire brush, or any scraping blade. Obviously, this comes with a risk of damage.

Lots of people swear by various nontoxic patented household cleaners. Simple Green is really common but there are others. These usually kind of suck, and need to soak forever. Honestly, I find most people do some of the worst damage with these, because they end up scrubbing to make up for the weaknesses of the solvent. (Plus, you'll want to search online and make sure it doesn't actually dissolve plastic.) Most of them are a mix of some sort of enzyme and/or mild oddball solvent with some kind of surfactant/detergent (soap). Unlike pretty much literally everything here, they are a lot easier to use and dispose of, although you still don't want to pour solid paint residue down your sink unless you want some clogs with interesting colors.

Most household cleaning solvents are close to useless. Ammonia and vinegar will dissolve some acrylic paints if you soak them in strong solutions for like a month. Bleach isn't useful. Don't bother.

Degreasers usually have some kind of useful solvent, but it can be a crapshoot which, and many of them are secret mixes. There's no general rule but I've never found one worth using. Note that some are dangerous for plastic, like orange degreaser (aka Orange TKO), whose main active ingredient is also sold as plastic cement.

Speaking of which, citrus solvent (aka citrus thinner, lots of brand names) is quite bad at dissolving dried paint but very effective at ruining styrene plastic. It's only good for long soaks for metal minis, and is mildly less toxic than turpentine, but not so much you wouldn't still want to take the normal precautions.

There are a lot of petroleum-based solvents that can work. These are not one single solvent but a class of them and generally sold as a mixture, so they have lots of names. They're also called white spirits, mineral turpentine, and petroleum spirits. Naphtha solvent is part of this family. Paint thinner or nail polish remover that specifies it isn't turpentine or acetone but doesn't specify what it is, that's also probably a mineral spirit. Odorless paint thinner is also almost always a mineral spirit, albeit a less harsh one.

Mineral spirits are usable. They are a bit less effective on paint than turpentine (especially odorless thinner, since the chemicals with harsh smells are the harsh solvents), and they often attack plastic even more aggressively. They do actually work, though, they're just kinda worse all-around compared to proper turpentine.

Glycol-ethers are another family of chemicals, and, when they're pure, they all work more or less about as well as turpentine or mineral spirits, while also destroying styrene plastic. (Formaldehyde or glycol as part of a chemical name is a common tell. Alternately, methyl- or ethyl- can be a tell, but methyl and ethyl alcohols are alcohols.) You don't actually want to buy these to use as paint stripper, in any event. They're usually too expensive at a proper concentration, many of them don't evaporate cleanly, and most of the ways they're sold are mixed with other problematic ingredients. I mention them because there are hobby "spot remover", "glue remover", or "paint remover" products that are safe for other kinds of plastic, not the ones generally used in miniatures. Also a lot of One Weird Trick home remedies are something with a high concentration of glycol-ether, like brake fluid or antifreeze. They're just a pain in the rear end and they have no advantages over other options except that you might already own them.

Anyone who advises you to use actual fuel is a maniac. Thankfully I don't see this any more, but people used to suggest poo poo like kerosene. Not only is this an incredibly stupid fire hazard, contaminated fuel with paint or melted plastic in it is a pain in the rear end to dispose of and leaves you with a container of fuel that will wreck an engine or stove, if not start a fire. Do not do this.

If someone has One Weird Trick that sounds interesting, search for the name of the product and SDS or MSDS. Pretty much every compound that actually works on paint that isn't an abrasive is flammable or toxic, and that means shipping it requires a standardized disclosure sheet. This is a good way to figure out what is actually in something before you go and dunk a model in it.

Edit: I forgot ultrasonic cleaners. They work, even the ones made for silverware, jewelry, or dentures. They are technically mechanical rather than chemical, but they won't generally damage detail.

However, do not put flammable solvents in household ultrasonic cleaners. This includes alcohol, even though lots of idiots will tell you to put isopropyl in one. It works! It can also explode. Do not clean your minis with a bomb. There are explosion-proof industrial cleaners that are certified to not spark and you can use those with solvents, but generally they're not consumer-oriented as far as I know.

Cheater's Guide to a Limited Palette

Cease to Hope posted:

in traditional art, a limited palette is using a limited set of primary pigments that create an overall effect defined by the limitations of those pigments. but you do actually mix those pigments. on minis, most likely we are not doing that. i mean you can if you want but idk why you'd mix your paints from the primary pigments with quick drying acrylics.

instead using a limited palette on minis with hobby acrylics means limiting yourself to give the same effect as a limited palette. this is not painting all of your dudes the same main color, but rather choosing the colors that you would naturally have if your yellow primary was warmer or cooler or your blue primary was brilliant or soft or whatever.

you can take art classes to see what various pigments can do but you can get like 80% of the effect by picking about 4-6 paints that look good together (your hues), a tint (white or something close), and a shade (a black or dark grey, or even a brown or a purple). rather than fooling with primaries like you're painting a painting, you're skipping a step ahead and only mixing your (probably half or mostly secondary) hues with your tint and shade. you can mix your hues too, you just probably want fewer of them if you do that.

at this point you can use the good old base-shade-rebase-highlight wargamer classic. as long as you pick citadel-style triads that match your hues mixed with your tint/shade colors, you can just use those. the point is not literally less containers of paint (since these triads are just readymade versions of the ways both fine artists and wargamers mix their paints as needed anyway) but rather fewer overall hues.

there are two cool benefits of this.

first, if you're disciplined and do not give into "well, maybe one more color" (too often), it will make your whole army look cohesive without needing to all be the same color. wargamers obviously benefit from all of their work look cohesive! not only that, but it gives you more freedom to experiment with which colors are the main ones, because the warm yellow details on one squad match with the dominant warm yellow on the tank.

second, it is so much less hassle. you have so many fewer paint pots to sift through and so much less worrying about finding the perfect color. you can just put away the bulk of your paint collection and focus on arranging the colors you already decided on. (this also dampens the temptation to buy new paints midproject. a little. i've heard.)

a nice side benefit is that you really get to appreciate the qualities of a particular paint. you really get to see VMC's sunbeaten dull mattes or citadel's bold satin colors with just the weirdest mixes sometimes. (how is orruk green a warm pea green? wizardry i swear.) also how VMC pale sand is skill in a bottle 2.0.

there is some more advanced parts of this and i'm not gonna pretend to have a keen grasp of all that but it is a tool you can you to achieve both consistency and ease of use.

Cease to Hope fucked around with this message at 01:06 on Aug 4, 2023

# ¿ Aug 3, 2023 21:19

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

Gambrinus posted:

When were Dark Eldar invented? (I don't mean in-universe, I mean in Nottingham).

I haven't played 40k properly since 2nd edition when I was a kid.

They'd been in the background of Eldar in a vague way since the earliest days, and were alluded to in RT and the 2e Eldar codex.

The faction as it exists now, suffering vampires led by Asdrubael Vect and hateful scourge to everyone, that was invented in 1998 for 3e. They were opposite SM in the 3e starter box.

# ¿ Aug 3, 2023 22:54

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

S.J. posted:

Picked the best poster for the OP imo

# ¿ Aug 4, 2023 08:37

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

moths posted:

Anybody got a good suggestion for a Chaplain's crozius weapon bit? There's probably a billion good choices in AOS but I do not know that range.

stormcast eternals are similarly-sized and -themed, especially if runes and lightning bolts suit your army

there's also quite a few third-party options if you want to go that route

wins32767 posted:

Are there any good full table terrain sets that matches either the GW layout or other competitive formats? I have some very, very old necromunda terrain (like from the 90s) but that's it.

that necromunda terrain is classic and beloved because you can print your own cardboard to fit with it, to make nearly anything. making an Official Table would mainly involve making some bases for the buildings then printing walls to fit those pieces on rigid card

# ¿ Aug 7, 2023 17:27

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

why?

# ¿ Aug 8, 2023 05:09

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

Dr. Red Ranger posted:

Edit: I still love Kroot but IIRC the issue with vespids was that they were a short ranged, relatively fragile jump-troop that could wound mEq type models well enough but weren't any more accurate or lethal than what battle suits could do so no one ever really felt compelled to use them.

also they were topheavy metal models that looked like dogshit

the kroot kt is a cool set and fun in kt

# ¿ Aug 8, 2023 19:06

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

rantmo posted:

Other than Goonhammer, are there any websites that write stuff about 40k or is it pretty much all scattered throughout YouTube (and overwhelmed by battle reports of wildly varying quality)?

warphammer is intermittent and chaos-focused but interesting. woehammer has list rundowns with some sparse commentary, although they're a bit more AOS-focused. tale of painters has good advice on hobby products and paints (but with a slant to stuff in EU/UK). can you roll a crit has KT meta commentary (and some interesting winrate data that should be taken with an enormous grain of salt), but it's a supplement to a stream of consciousness YT vlog that has the bulk of the detail.

BOLS and spiky bits exist but are garbage.

# ¿ Aug 8, 2023 20:00

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

Ashcans posted:

Yea, being released in metal did them no favors, and the design was really dull. I recall that they were also not priced (either in $$$ or points) to make much sense - you were paying a premium for something that was better done by a suit, which would also be in plastic and much nicer to work with.

most of the alien auxiliaries had this problem, yeah. kroot hounds were even worse, since they were pure harassment chaff that you wanted 20 of but they came in blisters of like 2. krootoxen weren't cheap points-wise but they were expensive, heavy models that were a terrific pain to assemble securely. hell, the metal kroot stuff was even good looking, but fabulously expensive and a bad fit for the army.

# ¿ Aug 8, 2023 20:33

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

The Deleter posted:

Vespid look really squat and goofy, and when I snag a squad I'll definitly go for a 3d printed option. Kroot could use a refresh but I kinda wnana see everything get off of that finecast as well, which includs stuff like the Firesight team and a bunch of Ethereal special characters iirc,

kroot got a brand new boxed set last december for KT. the models look great, especially if you like dudes who make a cloak look good, and they're fun (if generally very conservative) in KT. only downside is that the unit is weirdly pointless in 10e, but you could use them as regular kroot

# ¿ Aug 8, 2023 23:07

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

Professor Shark posted:

When they first came out weren�t they the Tau�s answer for close combat? Cheap and devastating if you let them close in

kroot were were not devastating, no. they punched about as hard as tactical marines at half the cost, but they were paper-thin, had a lower initiative, and had a chance to fail to sweeping advance when they did win a melee. (this was an annoying but not gamebreaking weakness, and it would occasionally get them killed.) the hounds were cheaper and better in melee (twice the attacks, standard init 4), but you needed a kroot squad to add them to, and they were sold two to a blister when a full unit was eight.

# ¿ Aug 9, 2023 00:16

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

Cooked Auto posted:

The fact that the Master of Possession is also getting a stand alone release is going to make someone happy.

I think they actually took the time to redo the sprues for this, or somehow managed to separate them. Which is interesting.

i wonder if they're going to bring back the discontinued Aspiring/Exalted Champion, the other OOP plastic model pictured on a CSM index datasheet. it's also on its own sprue, and even had a (pointless) datasheet in 9th.

Desfore posted:

The sad thing is, the info in the KT annual book is already out of date due to the balance dataslate. It would've been cool if they made this themed more like the "GallowDark Compendium," but I guess if they're also throwing in Ashes of Faith stuff...

this is better than the overpriced codex books with only two teams in them. it'd be nice if GW just gave away the rules (although ktdash and wahapedia are still there), but what can you do.

Stephenls posted:

Hmm. Good point, So, six different kits, not five.

I don't know if we'll ever see the monopose legionaries and two possessed again, now that there's separate kits for both legionaries and new upsized possessed. Maybe they'll just vanish forever like the old monopose redemptor, aggressors, intercessors, and reivers.

it's possible but it doesn't seem likely to me. there's not much use for two random possessed.

Super Waffle posted:

Still missing Butcher and flamer gunner but I haven't had need for them as of yet.

there's two-handed chain weapon melee in the new berserkers kit, or some really grisly butcher's weapons in the corpse grinder necromunda kits

Cease to Hope fucked around with this message at 11:35 on Aug 14, 2023

# ¿ Aug 14, 2023 11:33

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

Stephenls posted:

Then they did beast snagga orks box and did not do this. All the beast snagga orks in that box were separate kits. There's no big jumbled-up monopose sprue that's difficult to sell separately in the beast snagga orks box.

Then they did the new astra militarum box and again did not do this. All the new astra militarum units in that box are also their own kits, easy to sell separately.

also a chaos knights and votann set, packaged similarly. also, on the other side, boxed sets for slaves to darkness and lumineth, also with no tangling. (the former was the only way to get the new demon prince for a while.)

additionally, the 30K 2e starter is all just ready to sell in its own boxes, no tangled sprues or monopose at all.

# ¿ Aug 14, 2023 11:40

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

Super Waffle posted:

I'll bet that extra sprue will have lots of weird blobs and extra spines and stuff for a Kill Team!

you think so? the safe bets, to my mind, are purestrains, leapers, or warriors. i can see gants in a KT but not specialist gants.

# ¿ Aug 14, 2023 22:22

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

Captain No-mates posted:

Is there a good resource for seeing what citadel paints work as a highlight for other paints? I'm painting my 10th edition box as Hive Fleet Behemoth but I want to do a gross pale flesh for the symbiotic weapons and I'm not sure I'll pick the right paints.

they used to have some old charts you can still find floating around but now they have a whole-rear end app

# ¿ Aug 14, 2023 23:40

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

I admit, I don't use it. I don't buy enough Citadel paint to justify bothering.

# ¿ Aug 15, 2023 00:27

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

BizarroAzrael posted:

I saw Noise Marines are making it to some competitive lists, what's the situation with their models now? They have finecast versions of their 4/5th ed upgrade parts or the plastic individual model based on the original (Jez Goodwin?) model?

both. most people use the finecast, unless they're using third-party parts, doing kitbashes, or using the pretty good-looking but hideously expensive 30K noise marines

# ¿ Aug 15, 2023 01:01

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

can someone in canada confirm:

the app still says the army builder is no longer accessible on august 28 without a subscription
the page to subscribe to WH+ is still 403 forbidden at the cloudflare level https://mywarhammer.com/subscribe

someone told me this and it is too incompetent to believe but also lmao gw

# ¿ Aug 15, 2023 05:23

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

Geisladisk posted:

There is no need to buy specific paints to highlight up each color. Mix your own on a wet pallette. It's way easier than you think and saves you a ton of money and issues. A slightly yellow offwhite, like a pale skintone, mixed into most any color will result in a perfect highlight color.

you can use any light color to do this if you're not a coward

# ¿ Aug 15, 2023 10:45

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

Maneck posted:

Yep, but it's not a GW screw up, really.

blocking (all of?) canada on your signup form at the cloudflare level with no explanation anywhere is definitely 100% a GW screwup. (also, i've seen a few different emails about this now asking in different places; a couple of them mention a quebec law rather than the canadian content national law.) doing that to save the money on subtitling your promotional videos just makes it extra hilarious

# ¿ Aug 15, 2023 20:59

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

Maneck posted:

If it is just a Quebec thing and instead they blocked the entire country, that is a rediculous GW screw up. The Broadcasting Act does have language provisions though, so perhaps they're using Quebec as a shorthand for "French".

one email someone posted mentioned "Bill 96 in Quebec", and another mentioned "quebec law" with no further detail

# ¿ Aug 15, 2023 22:22

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

kinda lmao at this article on warcom.

quote:

Unlike the Inquisitorial Agents, the Hand of the Archon don�t have a separate datasheet � but they�re a particularly fancy stand-in for Kabalite Warriors, and make for a very characterful retinue of semi-trusted Trueborn for your Archon.

The Drukhari are known for their duplicity, and they�d find no small joy in passing off their knives as a splinter rifle on inspection day, so feel free to use the more esoteric specialists as regular Kabalites.

"well, hand of the archon doesn't have a datasheet in 40k. sorry! the end."

# ¿ Aug 16, 2023 01:52

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

Cooked Auto posted:

The one to the left is definitely a callback to the art from the second 3rd ed IG codex.
Not that I'm going to sub to WH+ anyway. Still not worth it.

I assume you mean the other left. The one actually on the left is holding a chalice, has the same silhouette as the blood knights, and a big old bone on the hilt ruling out longshots like bretonnians. safe bet is a vampire of some sort.

# ¿ Aug 16, 2023 16:11

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

if you're gonna bring armored sentinels, always lascannon. they hunt big game and it's the only relevant option.

scout sentinels are also a really good unit to have, too, and can work with lascannon, plasma, or flamers. the weapons are easy to magnetize.

you probably want another infantry character, just for more orders. DK marshals are very good, as is ursula, but another command squad is fine. long-term you're gonna want leontus.

you're going to want a demolisher as your first leman russ, probably played as a tank commander. it does better as a push unit, it just does more damage to everything, and as a tank commander, can give itself orders. the weapon is not hard to magnetize.

speaking of, generally go all flamers on a russ for overwatch, or else switch for more useful guns (pretty much anything else). heavy bolters are probably the iffiest choice after flamers and you only want plasma cannon on a non-commander demolisher.

mortar heavy weapon squads are more efficient than wyverns. wyverns are cool but not so cool it's a good idea to pay twice as much for so much less gun.

# ¿ Aug 18, 2023 08:52

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

Spanish Manlove posted:

Effort is rarely worth it.

dsyp

Al-Saqr posted:

In a way we have all committed both financial and dignity seppuku by being into warhammer

if we wanted to play a good game we wouldn't be playing 40K

# ¿ Aug 19, 2023 05:29

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

DancingShade posted:

worry about [...] lore

bad news, OP

# ¿ Aug 19, 2023 09:42

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

Wrr posted:

Oh, I thought that was what you meant but every GW store in Tokyo I've been has had the kill team sets. Didn't realize it was rare or selling out or anything.

For the DKoK squads it says it's going to be 9 troops to a watch master. Do I need to specify that one guy is a watch master? There's no like specific models so do I just gussy him up extra?

the watchmaster has different weapons, it's on the back of the DKOK unit card. he starts with a chainsword and laspistol, and can swap them for better weapons. usually you want the power weapon (this can just be literally any melee weapon that isn't a chainsword) and a boltgun or plasma pistol.

# ¿ Aug 20, 2023 05:53

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

Vagabong posted:

I would like to get the inquistorial weirdos set but its baffling why 3/7 of the models are monopose in a box that's explicitly designed so that you really want to buy two of them to get the full range of options.

the arms go on necromunda weirdos or any other scuzzy humans you might have in your bits box. necromunda scum is perfect as a companion set if you don't already have something usable.

# ¿ Aug 20, 2023 12:43

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

Bohemian Nights posted:

Bolded part is funny, because that list of countries is what they launched with and they've added no new regions since then

they have, in fact, subtracted at least one

# ¿ Aug 21, 2023 11:57

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

SuperKlaus posted:

I got a sprue for 5 assault intercessors in a trade. It doesn't look like either of the sprues for the 10-man assault intercessor kit on GW's site. Where can I check out where this sprue came from so I can turn up some assembly instructions?

Indomitus. It's also in some other intro-to-40K stuff.

# ¿ Aug 22, 2023 01:08

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

superglue accelerator

just make sure you're getting the piece in the right spot the first time

# ¿ Aug 24, 2023 05:00

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

rantmo posted:

At my game last night we had a bunch of questions about the rules for ruins

Yes you do need LOS to shoot.

Yes you can run through walls, and yes it is a logistic nightmare. Base to base through a wall isn't a thing but being in melee only requires being within engagement range, which is 1" horizontally and 5" vertically.

Movement is just measured vertically. Moving down from a 3" high platform to the ground costs 3" plus whatever horizontal difference. You can set models up on a high platform basically for free during deployment, deep strike, etc. though.

# ¿ Aug 24, 2023 15:57

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

btw i fuckin called it on the promo minis

Cooked Auto posted:

"Thrawn lists" sounds like a term someone needs to introduce to shatterpoint and other Star Wars miniature games.

already a thing in star wars armada. he's mid, used to be good but overtaken by more-specialized commanders in a faction that kinda can't avoid skewing. there's some galaxy-brain play if you can figure out how to get enough value from his versatility to make up the difference, and some people use him as a comfort pick since he's not exactly bad.

armada's kinda in a holding pattern though.

Verisimilidude posted:

I hate assembling models. It�s my least favorite part of the experience

assemble them wrong. embrace the xacto knife and craft saw.

metaphorically, i mean.

# ¿ Aug 25, 2023 12:47

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

Roller Coast Guard posted:

I wonder if there's money in offering services as a pro-assembler like there seems to be in pro-painter?

no. it's not laborious and skill-intensive enough to justify it, outside of heavy-duty conversion. it's more of an addon to painting services.

# ¿ Aug 25, 2023 13:23

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

Kitchner posted:

If I can't be arsed to stick 50 guardsmen together and I pay someone else to do it, they can probably do it way faster than painting them. So the real question is what's the � per hour you get for it.

every job you take has a fixed overhead of friction too, so smaller tasks are worth even less. also a lot of commission painting just involves assembly anyhow.

# ¿ Aug 25, 2023 14:14

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:

Yeah it�s a loooot harder to kitbash than it used to be. Modern CAD sculpts are cut along weird lines, so often �arm� or �head� aren�t separate bits, or a coherent piece like �leg� is split across two bits.

Assemble the model and slice it up with the craft saw. Models are only monopose to the degree that you are a coward.

Roller Coast Guard posted:

We have a painting thread. We don't have a converting thread, do we?

the painting thread is basically the arts and crafts thread

Jack B Nimble posted:

This poo poo makes me so mad, why are you pinching pennies in an artistic medium. I don't give a single poo poo if these cad models are more optimized for your factory or cheaper, this poo poo wilp always be out of stock and too expensive anyway and I want to kit bash them.

it's also poses, though. cad slicing also allows poses more complicated than the kinda stuff cadians or non-mk-6 30K plastic marines.

Decorus posted:

Speaking of being mad, my LGS told me that GW has stopped supplying them with Munitorum Varnish. Apparently they've stopped production completely?

If I have to start looking for a reliable replacement I will be very upset.

ask in the painting thread, people have Opinions and the recs will be cheaper

I just use cheap matte and gloss medium from the craft store but i don't spray stuff

# ¿ Aug 25, 2023 20:34

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

bird food bathtub posted:

While I enjoy the building and modeling aspect, I suck so horribly much rear end at sculpting green stuff that it frustrates me. There's so many ideas I have, and I see other people's execution with green stuff, then I try it and it looks like poo poo that never sculpts in any way I can wrap my brain around working with.

this is partially a "keep at it" thing. figure out what you can do now that you like the look of. then, find situations to use that. you'll naturally learn things as you try to make it look better, or try to adapt it a little.

for example, i felt okay jamming up gaps with green stuff and not much more. that was fine, i just used it in mostly non-visible areas. then, well, maybe i can make this look more like actual muscles, even if they're weird and mutated and wrong? oh, that actually worked out pretty decent, that actually looks like something that kinda makes sense. i'll do that again. etc. etc.

SuperKlaus posted:

Every Battle Sister model that makes you glue her shin to her calf is my enemy.

it's so much better than seam lines that run down the middle of an armor plate tbf

OR THROUGH THE GODDAMN DOGSHIT MIDDLE OF A MARINE SHOULDER PAD

# ¿ Aug 26, 2023 07:28

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

DancingShade posted:

Kingdom death miniatures are probably my personal gold standard for hiding mold lines by concealing them with clothing or body part joins. Wrong scale for 40k though, sadly. Unless you want alterative greater demons I suppose.

often as not extremely horny greater demons, i should add. KD and classy are not on speaking terms, so ymmv for those who are not familiar.

Mr Teatime posted:

I think my current despair comes from building chaos marine kits where everything has little spikes and teeth and they all need cleaned up.

I just clean up everything with an xacto blade held parallel to the surface. mold lines over fine detail can be wiped with a brush of extra fine plastic cement too but this takes some practice. (light layer, not enough to run much.

# ¿ Aug 27, 2023 15:52

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

so i guess norns and the neurolictor are the only new units after all

# ¿ Aug 27, 2023 18:14

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 12:30

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

i did wonder if the vores got a new role to go with the new look but the description does not seem to imply it, which is a shame. mortars are so boring in 40K

# ¿ Aug 27, 2023 18:22

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Warhammer 40K 10e: Karen Draws, the Pheonix Lord

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