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Beagle
Dec 8, 2012

It's fine...

shortspecialbus posted:

edit2: Seriously, help me not suck at this. It looks like such a fun game and I can deal with bullshit but I hate feeling like the game is trying to teach me a lesson, where that lesson is "don't bother to try to play well because we're going to completely ruin your game experience." I'm fine with losing soldiers if I do something dumb, and the occasional loss to RNG whatever, but not every single loving time.

I can try and help. If you could record/write about a specific mission you had, the situations that happened and the decisions you made and the outcomes, I could give some direct feedback. :eng101:

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Beagle
Dec 8, 2012

It's fine...

dyzzy posted:

Eh, I'm still a little iffy on it. 90 means you will still lose your soldier for good/a very long time just for taking the "sure thing" on occasion, and situations where you can reliably trigger just one overwatch (and aren't otherwise easy, eg. one last alien) are hard to come by. That said 90 is a hell of a lot better than 75.

Uncle Jam posted:

Even 95% is a 1 in 20 chance which is still high enough to change the skills usage completely.

This sounds reasonable on paper but in practice I feel it's the same as saying you'll never take a shot again because the soldier will be left in heavy cover, which is a 1/4 chance to hit him. Or you'll never leave any soldier in the line of fire post-sectoids, because even a hunkered one against an enemy with slight aim bonuses has a ~5% chance of being hit.

1 in 20/1 in 10 chance to totally negate the dreaded Overwatch and still be able to fire in that turn with that soldier? In a game that centers around risk and reward but also economy of action, that is pretty amazingly reliable for what you gain; particularly if you successfully trip multiple Overwatches with it. For absoloutely guaranteeing a safe disposal of Overwatches, suppression and flashbangs are both readily available now and should be on most of your missions - Lightning Reflexes is the almost-guaranteed thing you turn to when you can't effectively use those tools and you need the Overwatch(es) dealt with as economically as possible.

All that boring waffling aside - I build an Alloy Plating and stick it on all my scouts for the +2 HP. That said in the current beta it's a 75% chance instead of 90%, not sure if I'll do it in B7.

Beagle
Dec 8, 2012

It's fine...

John Dough posted:

Note that it doesn't prevent a soldier panicking from another soldier panicking :haw: Happened to Beaglerush in one of his (non-Long War) streams, after he gave one of his troops the medal that does the same thing.

They've changed Steadfast to stop that actually, so Alien Trophy will be a good way to stop the early panic chains. Which is good, because it's not very useful at the moment.

Beagle
Dec 8, 2012

It's fine...

Hopeford posted:

Also, I know this is completely illogical, but MAN I love the feeling of managing to evac everyone against a ridiculous army of aliens. Getting everyone out of there alive felt like more of a victory than most victories do!

It's the rush of coming so close absolute defeat yet saving the lives of every soldier under your command against the odds. I wish there were more mission types that encouraged that kind of thing; vanilla's VIP extraction missions were a missed opportunity there as you still had to kill all the aliens instead of just getting the VIP to the Skyranger and getting out. The EXALT data recovery was a big step in the right direction there, it just needs to be made tougher so you feel the pressure to evac instead of killing all the dudes for XP.

Which should be a thing now that you can only take 4 soldiers on those missions in Long War :jihad:

Beagle
Dec 8, 2012

It's fine...

nutranurse posted:

Long War has made me really not care about throwing explosives around like crazy. I doubt I'd ever get far if I couldn't turn every redshirt into a suicide bomber.

One thing that's really helpful on that front is Beta 7's Carbines. The +7 aim applies to a Rocketeer's scatter accuracy, just like Steady Weapon on the rifle does. Even your straight out of basic SPEC Rocketeer can be a force when you're stacking a SCOPE, Carbine and an extra rocket on him.

Beagle
Dec 8, 2012

It's fine...
The LW devs have been saying they may just be able to add new 3D models for guns/armor now. As I posted on the Long War suggestion forums (http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/1210174-long-war-feature-requests-and-suggestions/?p=14818948), I'm excited by the possibilities and suggested some potential stuff (silenced weapons/tac shields in particular) that could work as gameplay additions, but the main thing I'm excited by is the idea of just having different kinds of guns for the look-cool/variety factor.

What weapons would you lovely people like to see added to XCOM, either as entirely new weapons or just flavour choices? I'd love to see something like an AK-104 added as a ballistic rifle alternative deco, for example. What's your favourite gun/launcher/grenade design you think would be cool to have in the game?

Beagle
Dec 8, 2012

It's fine...

SkySteak posted:

I know this is a turned based game etc but I am trying to picture how that entire turn would look in real time.

Scout does a John Woo dive around the corner to dodge the fire as the grenade explosion rips through the enemies, takes out three before she hits the ground, then keeps pumping the handle and slaying as she slides to a stop in the water. She drops the shotgun and pulls out her pistol for the last Muton who is just standing there in shock.

Essentially, In The Zone is the coolest perk.

Beagle
Dec 8, 2012

It's fine...

Hog Butcher posted:

Is it possible to have archangel armor by that point in the game? It'd be baller as hell to handle it by having a bunch of angry squadsighters sitting in midair.

I don't even know if archangel is in LW. I just know that Archangel snipers are the apex predator in a world of chrysalids.

Archangel is disgustingly late, expensive, and probably the best armor in the game.

+8 HP (compared to Titan's +10 or so), all the benefits of Titan (sealed power armor immune to fire), and you can fly. Fuel cell item gives you another 6 extra flight fuel. Great times online.

Edit: Worth noting that what really pushes Archangel over the edge in LW is the +30 defense for flying targets up from +20 in vanilla. It's like you can actually field an entire squad of jump troops and just have them jetpack around raining death.

Beagle
Dec 8, 2012

It's fine...
On the topic of LW Newfoundland: Usually I get in, hit the objective, get out ASAP. This time around I went for a more Aliens style wading through ichor and tearing apart xenos strategy. I will say that with a 7 man squad packed with a Shotguns + a Rocketeer and a Sapper Engineer just in case, you can just walk down into the bowels of the ship and blast them as they hatch. It's very satisfying.

Gets you some extra levelup points for your soldiers, too. Exterminate Chrysallid nests by hand, get life experience! :eng101:

Beagle
Dec 8, 2012

It's fine...

Mr. Crow posted:

Jesus loving christ I hate seekers. Apparently my new strategy is to quit the mission if there is more than one pack per map and/or a unit engages while I'm already engaged.

Just got wiped on an abduction mission (basically the easiest 'level' a missino can be, of course) with no less than 4 seekers. Wouldn't have been two much of a problem except... BLOCKS 2 DAMAGE, BLOCKS 2 DAMAGE, BLOCKS 2 DAMAGE. That's IF I'm lucky enough to hit them :argh:

Yes I'm aware about battle scanners uncloaking them (which someone kindly told me, undocumented mechanics hurray!), unfortunately it doesn't do much if there is more than one unit!

HEAT Warhead Rocketeer is your ace in the hole vs. unexpected robotic pod activations. One rocket can wipe out every one of them if they're clustered enough. Otherwise, rush Beam Lasers and put them on scoped Infantry so you've got double tap chances to tear down Seekers. HEAT Sapper Engineers are good vs them if they're low enough to the ground to be naded, as well.

quote:

Think my best soldier in July is a LCPL.

:ohdear: If you don't have a CPL by at least mid April you're in trouble. You should have a roster full of Sgts and Cpls by July at least.

Beagle
Dec 8, 2012

It's fine...

MrBims posted:

Steady Weapon, Laser Sights and Scopes all apply to rockets, and remember that moving before firing a rocket gives an aim and range penalty. You can easily justify that 80 dollar Scope when it knocks out the wall giving five Exalt elites full cover. Moving and shooting is the panic button and Sappers are always going to be better at that, but waiting a turn to take a shot is the hammer that splatters whole pods of enemies.

All great advice, and note that for as long as they've been in the game I've found Carbines a great way to provide +7 aim to Rocketeers, too.

Someone was telling me that it doesn't actually work for the Rocket, but I did some tests comparing a non Carbine Rocketeer to a Carbiner and the aim on the Rocket % adjusted as you'd expect. Laser Carbine Rocketeers are even more hillarious for the extra beam laser accuracy. By the time you have Beam Laser Carbine SCOPE Snap-shot Rocketeers, you've got very reliable damage.

Beagle
Dec 8, 2012

It's fine...

Mr. Crow posted:

My mistake, it was May.

I dunno everyone seems to toss around advice but (heat rounds) but really I'm having the most trouble early game. If I had half the poo poo people recommend against problem enemies/missions (beam lasers*) I could blast through it easily.

Maybe I'm taking to many missions? I take pretty much every mission that is the minimum panic/difficulty, it's fine for the first while until basically seekers start showing up (at which point seekers, floaters and thin men show up all the time and sectoids all but disappear), then I start taking heavy losses. Should I basically only be taking a mission every 5 days or so (to keep training up the same guys)?


*these examples are just from my post, but reading what other people recommend to others is usually the same problem.

A good early game troop training run is going to look like:

Take every mission in March, ideally you will level the same 6 guys as much as possible half the time while getting as many rookies to SPEC as possible the other half of the time. So pick a handful of your favourite classes to have levelled and say "I'm gonna make you guys CPLs by the end of the month", and when you're not levelling those guys, take raw rookies as you can't afford to be training rookies in April.

Take every mission in April but now you're concerned about Floaters and Thin Men (and the Terror Mission), so take your A-Team CPLs on hard missions (Swarming/Hard, Terror, tricky maps) while training up your roster of SPECs on lighter missions.

May onwards - You've got a good roster of troops, and hopefully you're well on your way on the research front by now.

Research and building - I build two extra satellites and an uplink ASAP in March, then no more satellites for a long time. Put them on your home continent and stack extra Interceptors there to play it safe. I go Alien Weaponry first (quick SCOPES), then rush Beam Weapons for quick lasers as the aim bonus they provide is where the comeback really starts against the aliens.


Again, if Seekers, Floaters and Thin Men are your problem, try to get some really good troops ready by April so you've got good people to combat them. What kind of squads do you take out there? Are you getting Officer Training School/7 Squad Size by April, or no?

Beagle
Dec 8, 2012

It's fine...

MrBims posted:

It is completely bullshit that Exalt get to use grenades when you hack a relay and it is water-proof justification for savescumming :/

Wait what version are you on? I was told that Amineri herself said hacking EXALT towers disabled their rockets and grenades now too since like beta 10.

Oh god, all those times I left myself open to EXALT with the towers hacked, were they actually just too stupid to decide to rocket me? WHAT HAS BEEN HAPPENING



Mr. Crow posted:

Are you the same Beagle that makes the videos? If so, hah, watching your Impossible + LW videos infuriates me. On your first mission I can have the same exact setup with everyone on a building shooting down on guys in the open and 3/4 of them will miss, you smug bastard! But seriously, thanks for the videos and advice, they're helpful.

My early game strategy was to train everyone, so I have nearly all soldiers SPEC, maybe some LCPLs, so I don't have a single point of failure; but I guess it's hosing me a couple months in.

Floaters and Thin Men aren't a problem (at least Thin Men not anymore than "Thin Men :argh:", sometimes are), but I seem to get hosed by Seekers if there is more than one unit visible at a time (even with falling back etc). Could be lack of beam weapons by then, as when I do hit, they block all of the damage seemingly 50% of the time or untrained soldiers. If it's just one unit, they're pretty trivial, stack everyone up behind a wall and overwatch, seeker uncloaks and promptly gets murdered, rinse repeat.

No I don't have officers by April.


All SPECs is what I was doing a week or two ago but found the same thing you did, that it hoses you when you have no A-Team in April/May. Hence the half-and-half strategy.

Seekers: I almost always have an Infantryman with an Assault Rifle and a SCOPE who gets 50% shots on them even when flying, and a Rocketeer with SCOPE/Carbine for high accuracy shots. At the start of you revealing seekers, check you have a good rocket shot on them, then leave him till last. If the rest of the squad can't kill enough Seekers for you to feel comfortable, rocket them to hell. Obviously you're packing at least one Battle Scanner across your squad to reveal them once they've stealthed, but worst case if you don't have one, just throw a nade or rocket if you know where they are and it'll decloak them if it hits them.

One piece of general advice I myself have been trying to remember - fall back early and often in difficult engagements or when caught in poor positions. More so than in vanilla, it is necessary to exercise good tactical sense and decide on contact whether you can win the fight in your current position or if you need to fall back and attempt to either lure the enemy to you or make a different assault. In vanilla this was a bad idea early because you could get overwatch camped by giving up ground, but in LW you start with Lightning Reflexes on every scout and have long range supression on the Gunner LMG setup + Battle Scanners to recon before you make a second advance.

Point being, there are many situations where if you bug out in the first turn before Overwatches start getting set up, you could save everybody's lives. The difference between meeting Floaters while you're in half cover and falling back to full, Overwatching them as they fly in piecemeal, compared to thinking you can take them in the half cover and then having another pod fly up on you because you're on the frontline, the difference there is massive. Also, alien overwatch-advance strats (they fly up on you while overwatching to make sure you can't escape their advance) are common and quickly turn a "I can take this" situation into a "I'm about to be flanked unless I dash through three overwatches" situation. Sometimes it's better to be the early bird and dash retreat before that happens.

Beagle
Dec 8, 2012

It's fine...

Furism posted:

SCOPE or Laser Tech first (Vanilla Classic) ? Laser is like 16 days :(

Don't you have to research Alien Weaponry (SCOPES) to research lasers anyway? Beam laser rush best strat worldwide, though, both in vanilla and Long War. Get those puppies ASAP and ruin Floater/Thin Man faces.

Beagle
Dec 8, 2012

It's fine...
Close Encounters vs. Rapid Fire: Both are titans of the perk field, but I find CE a better and more versatile choice.

Rapid Fire: Move and shoot twice at the same target at a -15 aim penalty for each shot.

Close Encounters: Move, shoot anyone within 4 tiles of you for free, then continue taking your turn as if you never shot. Allows you to move-shoot-shoot/move-shoot-move/move-shoot-grenade/move-shoot-hunker/move-shoot-shootdifferentalien/move-shoot-whateveryouwant.

Essentially it's the Light 'Em Up/Bullet Swarm for Assaults. Great perk.

Beagle
Dec 8, 2012

It's fine...
Turns out that crazy whack talk I was spouting about EXALT explosives being hindered by the relay hacks in Long War recent betas was half true; it disables Rockets, but not Grenades. Still, handy.

Sexual Aluminum posted:

Why can't I promote anyone to captain rank? My guys have done tons of missions and I have a few three rank lieutenants.

Is there somewhere that lists the requirements? I kinda regret blowing 300 bucks on the upgrade at the officer school and not being able to use it.


Hahah oh wow that stuff is expensive if you're not Asia. Officers have to go on five missions as that rank before they can be promoted to the next one. Reportedly this works even if he is not the leading officer on the missions ("Come on, Lt. Green, Major Ironballs is going to show you the ropes"). So once your Lt. has gone on five missions as an Lt., he can be promoted to a Captain, and so on.

With continent bonuses on my brain: Anybody here do a Europe start? It seems like the only way to make early workshops/labs viable. $500 or so early on a 2x2 workshop/foundry combo for a 65% pricing on all items seems like a pretty good deal (as does similar cost for a 2x2 lab block giving you mad research discounts). It just seems too expensive for anyone else until much much later.

Beagle fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Jul 12, 2014

Beagle
Dec 8, 2012

It's fine...

TheCosmicMuffet posted:

I think they said they had found some hook that way, but if I had to guess, given that the initial mod was code-only, they probably just don't have someone to make nice assets that will fit in. Or maybe they've started but don't have anything presentable.

I have a feeling a bolter might make it in at some point if they start looking around for donor models :)
Upgraded MEC punchy fist = Chainfist.


They know how to make the game use new packages but apparently the sticking point is they're not 100% sure on how to make a package in a way that it will 100% correctly be loaded by XCOM. Still, when they put some R&D in to that I'm expecting some great things out of inserting new hats/decos/weapons.

Beagle
Dec 8, 2012

It's fine...

Zokalwe posted:

Does LW gives a random chance to lose equipment on lost soldiers? I had to rush back to the skyranger last mission, losing 4 dudes, and now a bunch of items are missing. One armor, at least one laser carbine, 1 scope and a gatling laser. Weird thing is that my only laser sniper is still there, while the wielder was among the casualties. And only one armor is missing (or maybe two?).

No, I didn't activate the second wave option that makes you lose the stuff of dead soldiers. But if that's a feature of LW, then that's silly.

50% chance for any dead troop to lose the equipment that troop had. With Total Loss on, that chance is 100%. :ohdear:

WHAT A GOOD DOG posted:

USA has always been number one, in my opinion. Planes and satellites are crucial early-game.

USA's bonus doesn't apply to satellite costs, does it? I assume you mean having planes to defend your sats is crucial, but if you mean you can build satellites on the cheap with the USA bonus, daaaamn that's good.

Beagle
Dec 8, 2012

It's fine...

Zokalwe posted:

Oh dammit. Don't know what I want to do with that.

More great info for you that I probably should've mentioned in the original post if I'd remembered: In Long War, Aliens have a tangible level of research that increases through various means (Abductions, UFOs on scout missions, etc), and if they get a hold of any XCOM personnel live or dead it's a substantial bonus to that research. They quite literally drag off the dead bodies you leave behind of XCOM soldiers and autopsy them just like we do to them. If they get a hold of live personnel (you leave XCOM troops behind on a mission alive, or you leave while they're still bleeding out unconscious but haven't died yet), they then get to interrogate/autopsy those live XCOM captives for an even bigger research bonus, again just like we do to live alien captives.

Essentially, it's a cool and clever addition that is absolutely horrifying when you think about it. So whenever you're aborting a mission and someone is left bleeding out on the ground, do them the mercy of throwing a grenade or rocket at their body as you run back to the Skyranger, or hold the LZ until they bleed out. If you're leaving people behind who can't get to the Skyranger, then let them go out fighting or even pull some kind of hosed up suicide pact where they blow themselves up with rockets/grenades rather than be taken captive by aliens. I've actually had to do the former personally (grenade a stabilized CPL Engineer while retreating from an EXALT mission gone horribly hosed) because the idea of letting my poor people get interrogated and tortured makes me feel horrible, not least the research bonus they'd get.

EDIT: Probably important to actually explain what the alien research does - you've noticed Long War aliens improve over time, the research meter is the reason. If alien resarch stayed the same, you'd fight 4 health sectoids the entire campaign. So the faster alien research goes up, the faster you'll see those Mutons show up, or the faster you'll see Thin Men get more health and squadsight, etc. It's a very important thing to keep low.


Deuce posted:

It does not. But you end up needing a shitload of planes.


Ah, I figured. Still, USA bonus is really good.

Beagle fucked around with this message at 04:26 on Jul 12, 2014

Beagle
Dec 8, 2012

It's fine...

MrBims posted:

Johnnylump wants to have that, but there isn't currently a system for differentiating KIA and MIA for missions you abort.

In any case, the effect of each KIA/MIA on aborted or failed missions is being quartered next patch to stop the death spirals. Thank god they saw reason with that, you shouldn't have to fight triple-Berserker pods with specialists wearing starting gear just because you had two failed missions in a row.

Oh, is that so? I've been spreading false information then, I thought it was the current implementation since a while ago. I still ain't leaving people to get head-poked by brain bugs though :colbert:

Beagle
Dec 8, 2012

It's fine...

MrBims posted:

Very end of July, I just had an Abduction mission where I spent about ten minutes on the deployment screen mulling over the perfect combination of people to send - considering not only the ability of the squad to handle the double-Cyberdisc pods I'm seeing on all medium UFOs, but how to make sure I still have two extra A+ squads for missions in the near future so I don't have to dip into fatigued ones.

The pods in the mission were, in order of appearance, two Thin Men, three Sectoids, three Floaters. Of course.

Meanwhile, on another front, the Cyberdisk pods roam the countryside slaughtering innocents, unopposed thanks to the brilliant strategic feint pulled by Alien High Command and the heroic sacrifice of those Thin Men, Sectoids and Floaters.

Beagle
Dec 8, 2012

It's fine...

dyzzy posted:

First abduction in LW. Deployed my first scout, along with others. On the very first overwatch he breaks, while in smoke, he gets one-shot by a sectoid. :sigh:

Why you gotta be like that, long war?

:ohdear: Ceramic plating for Scouts or bust!

Beagle
Dec 8, 2012

It's fine...

dyzzy posted:

I guess. Then he'd be out for a month instead of dead. Meanwhile I find another hapless rookie to get the scout promotion. :shrug:

On second thought, I think snipers will better suit me for the early game. Still not sure what niche scouts fill...

Edit: I feel silly even asking this but is there a reasonably up to date (full) playthrough of LW out there?

Early game they're a riskier Overwatch counter that is much easier to employ than Flashbangs/Suppression. Mid-to-late they're high speed flankers which end up with In The Zone and a vast array of weapon choices. And don't forget Battle Scanner!

Think of them like a lighter, more elegant version of an Assault. Where an Assault charges in with Run 'n Gun and Close Combat Specialist shotgun fire all around, the Scout picks from a variety of weapon options (they can pack a Marksman Rifle and Sawn-off on the same loadout), moves at high speed in single half moves (Sprinter and high mobility), and dices up on the flanks with ITZ.

Early game I take one on every mission for emergency Overwatch breaking, I just pack Ceramic (and later Alloy Plating) on them because I know they're going to get hit by that Overwatch eventually. If you don't mind losing the mobility, put Tac Armor on them too. I generally have ones equipped like Tac Vest/SMG/Sawn-Off/Ceramic(Alloy)/Flashbang for gotta go fast speeds with lethal close range power.

Beagle
Dec 8, 2012

It's fine...

dyzzy posted:

Do they share stat growths with snipers? I could see that being pretty nice. I'll try to make sure the next one survives to see some promotions.

Afaik, yes, meaning they get poo poo HP growth but fantastic aim. Which is another thing I forgot when comparing them to Assaults.

Beagle
Dec 8, 2012

It's fine...

Sexual Aluminum posted:

In the long war, do alien surgeries or the usual sell bait have a use? I am paranoid in selling them since they don't have the "feel free to sell me" disclaimer

Surgeries and Stasis have a use way down the line for a Research/Foundry project I believe.

Beagle
Dec 8, 2012

It's fine...

Wassbix posted:

Question about LW gunners. What is the interaction with Shredder Ammo/Holotargeting + Danger Zone + Suppression + Mayhem? Does all enemies that go under the suppression AOE take damage and get Shredder/Holo debuff applied to them?

I believe any enemy your Gunner damages takes Shredder, while any shot taken at all (or Supression) from a holo-targeter will apply Holo targeting (so you can miss and still apply it).

So theoretically a Danger Zone Suppression Mayhem from a Gunner with Shredder and Holo should apply both debuffs to all affected targets. I've been taking HEAT on Gunners instead though as you can get Shredder on Assaults as a small item now and I find HEAT Gunners are incredibly good robot killers. The +50% from HEAT is apparently applied AFTER the -50% damage from Flush, resulting in cool things like I flushed a Seeker and dealt 6 damage to it even with a ballistic SAW just because I had HEAT on that Gunner.

Flush is just such an impressively great pick on a Gunner when you use it for finisher shots instead of actually to flush. That reliable 2 damage is often all you need in those first few months to finish off those rear end in a top hat floaters/drones/seekers/Thin men in heavy cover, and Flush means you're making the shot at like 80% accuracy. It's an awesome tool.

Beagle
Dec 8, 2012

It's fine...

Dominic White posted:

That'll go a long way to making it feel more like a native PC game. A slightly more zoomed out camera by default, plus being able to freely whip the camera around with the mouse. It's the little things that matter.


:love: :love: YES :love: :love:

Both these things make me infinitely happy.

Beagle
Dec 8, 2012

It's fine...

Backhand posted:

Unrelated to anything, but I gotta say, I fired this game back up after a long absence the other day, and I still love Operation Ashes and Temples. Those security personnel may have rookie stats and equipment, but with tactical rigging they still have two frag grenades right out the gate - you can actually do some pretty meaningful damage with them if you grenade at every opportunity. They do their best, drat it!

In Long War not only are dead security added to the memorial wall, but ones who survive join XCOM as PFCs and even get XP for anything they did during the base defense :toot:

And SHIVs go on the wall, too!

Beagle
Dec 8, 2012

It's fine...

Axeman Jim posted:

Engineer with a plentiful supply of flashbangs to keep it at arms length and kite it into a hail of gunfire over the course of 3 turns. That's what I did anyway.

Does it not have massively improved mobility or something?

Beagle
Dec 8, 2012

It's fine...

Vib Rib posted:

I finally had a Scout live long enough to become a Sergeant, and the level up traits are all incredibly tempting. +3 mobility from Sprinter? +1 primary damage from Ranger? Or maybe the versatility of Low Profile for full cover wherever I go? I can't even decide.


Ranger +1 is pfffhbtbtbtbt because of how neglible it is, Low Profile is good, but Sprinter is got to go so god drat fast. Sprinter + Light Armor + SMG + Inherent Scoot Mobility = RIP every bomb mission, terror mission, newfoundland, and all aliens that didn't want to be flanked because you are moving at the speed of sound.

Assault Sprinter is even more hillarious for Run and Gun sprinting.

Beagle
Dec 8, 2012

It's fine...

dyzzy posted:

I thought I was caught with my pants down when my first terror mission came up, but two specialist gunners with LMGs just filled everything with holes while the rest of my newbie squad just hunkered down between turns.

Aside from a few shotgun kills on some very brave chryssalids they were all of the mission's confirmed kills. :black101:

Oh and it was murder street too. How apropos :smug:

Gunners were my favourite Weapons class for a while because suppression everywhere, then I discovered how good Rockteers are, but now Gunners are back with a vengeance because I discovered how good Flush is.

I wish I started with 8 soldiers, I want to take one of every class before the midgame. They're all so wonderful and balanced for each of their roles :911:

Beagle
Dec 8, 2012

It's fine...

Tehan posted:

Does Long War make the aliens pick their targets non-randomly? Because France was the scripted withdrawal and ever since then the aliens have had a raging hate-boner for Germany. Three terror missions at Cologne, one in Germany, and more UFO fly-bys than the entirety of North America - they were getting bombed on a weekly basis before I got satellite coverage up.

Whether it's random or not, it's really built up an emergent narrative. Started with a satellite over Japan and have managed to keep it alive the whole time thus far, and Japan's never left zero panic. I like to imagine the Japanese are the most ardent supporters of X-Com, with action figures and cosplay and fanclubs, and 'Sugar' Abubakar, Ace Pilot of Asia with eight confirmed kills is probably a national hero. The Germans are harrowed but unbroken, constantly hovering around level four panic but never surrendering. The French are right proper bastards, withdrawing right at the start and having thrice harboured Exalt cells, not that it stops my murder squads from moseying on over on a regular basis to kick around Exalt or to do the Portent/Deluge/Furies stuff, if the French have something to say about jurisdiction they can tell it to my gatling laser. Russia is making the best of things, constantly offering scientists and technicians in exchange for any alien gizmo I can get my hands on. Egypt has an insatiable hunger for corpses, Mexico wants a disturbing amount of live aliens, and the British are really into drones and seekers. And for some reason the aliens really, really love landing in Canada.

I don't think Australia even realizes there's a war on, they've had a grand total of one abduction and it was in Melbourne so I doubt anyone even noticed.

AFAIK the LW strategy AI is very different and I'd like to say it does make smart decisions re: taking over countries/continents. I've seen pictures of mid/late-game "air raids" where a bunch of UFOs prepare and then assault all at once to overwhelm XCOM air defense. I know they definitely react to how threatened they are by XCOM and by how many resources they have.

I love the writeup of your council personalities, haha. It makes it all the sweeter when you imagine the Skyranger touching down in France as the local governments whine about it.

Beagle
Dec 8, 2012

It's fine...

MechPlasma posted:


What manner of devilry is this? Flush? Good? Nay, I shall not believe your wicked lies!



Edit: oh, here's a question. Which is better, HEAT ammo or Holo-targeting with +5 aim? All the tough opponents (Cyberdisks, Mechtoids, the occasional tough Floater) are robotic, so I'm wondering if it's worth the loss of up to 15% accuracy.

HEAT with Flush = like 6 damage to robotics with Flush with basic ballistics :toot: I take it over Holo and take Holo on Scouts instead.

Are those SHIV "Sentinel Modules" their version of CCS? Pretty hillarious looking. Alloy SHIV very strong.

Beagle
Dec 8, 2012

It's fine...

HundredBears posted:

The obvious answer would be both. I'm not sure what the optimal mix is, but one or two with Holo-targetting would be better than pure HEAT even against robotic enemies, while HEAT on a few won't hurt much against non-robots since the HEAT SHIVS can just shoot enemies that have already been Holo-targetted. If you need to research one before the other, HEAT makes sense for the first pick. You can rely on a damage boost like that; +5 aim not so much.

Edit: If you're talking about Gunner perks and not SHIV small items the yeah, listen to Beagle. Is the perk worth +5 aim now? The perk stat bonuses were pretty lackluster in the last beta that I played.

Oh you guys were talking about SHIV items not Gunner perks. I'm such a bad babby that I haven't got late enough to build multiple alloy SHIVs yet so it didn't even cross my mind :(

Beagle
Dec 8, 2012

It's fine...

Ravenfood posted:

So I just took a look at the gunner tree for real. Ready for Anything + Sentinel + Smartgun kit sounds pretty loving good on a SAW-based gunner since only Marksman/Strike Rifles get overwatch at squadsight ranges, apparently. If anything, you'd think it'd be the sniper rifle or the LMG, but I guess not.

Wow, I never even considered the applications of Smartgun with Sentinel. Rapid Fire/Double Tap is just so good on a Gunner with HEAT, though... but that's a really smart combo.

If anything it'll make me consider Sentinel over Mayhem, though.

Beagle
Dec 8, 2012

It's fine...

Vib Rib posted:

Does rapid-fire + double tap mean three shots in a turn?
Sentinel is amazing on infantry if you've also got opportunist. I passed up Covering Fire for Executioner on pretty much all my major infantry and now I'm thinking I may have made a mistake. Then again, as good as an overwatch-god is, I usually get more out of active offense than overwatch. Maybe it's just the way I go through missions.

Really, all these stats are so good and so impressive and appealing that no matter how I build my soldiers I feel they're turning into little gods. It's a testament to the balance of Long War that everything looks so enticing, and I've never labored over perk choices in Vanilla the way I have here. Though admittedly we do get 3 choices instead of just 2.


Rapid Fire Double Tap oppose each other on the Gunner tree, but regardless Double Tap says its only useable for standard shots, headshot or disabling shot iirc, as it was made for the Sniper. So I don't think it'd work with Rapid.

Covering Fire is definitely a critical perk in any Overwatch build. Not having to rely on enemy movement to trigger means you can cover any action that takes place in that soldier's zone; hugely increases the utility of Overwatch.

Beagle
Dec 8, 2012

It's fine...

MrBims posted:

I think Steadfast on Infantry is really underrated. Infantry are likely to be consistently situated in the middle of the squad, making them great aura carriers, so using them as the baseline for officers and pumping up their will makes sense to me.

And I just don't see the need for Executioner on them anyway; I need Infantry to crit two Exalt down in one turn, not to finish off something below half health. That is what beam SMGs are for, not my scoped pulse rifles.

Steadfast/Trophy would be worth a lot more to me if it prevented Psi Panic, number one provider of panic in the first month. As is I take trophies in certain situations to deal with All-Sectoid Psi Spam All-Stars and then never think about them again.

I don't take Executioner but I'd imagine it would have a good use if you use your Infantry to finish twice. Hit two high health units with two squad members, then the infantry finishes both off with +10 hit +10 crit when they're weakened. Good synergy with rocketeers and grenadiers too.

Beagle
Dec 8, 2012

It's fine...

Darkrenown posted:

E: Reading b14 notes:

:( Still, means my Rocketeers can run with heavier main weapons.

It's the end of Carbines for me, I think. I guess when you get to Pulse/Plasma and the 1 damage loss doesn't matter much I might end up using some, but for ballistic/beam I've only ever used carbines for Rocketeers. Still, with SMGs given Steady Weapon in the same patch - it seems like a no brainer to go SMG Rocketeer now to nullify their awful mobility when you pile rockets on them.

Beagle
Dec 8, 2012

It's fine...

Deuce posted:

Even if you plan to double move, it is a good habit to make it two separate move actions. You cover the same distance. Only dash if you know the move won't activate new packs, or you are in a situation in which you need to move through an enemy overwatch. (Sprinting gives an aim penalty to reaction fire)

Not entirely true; you can lose a square or two of movement because starting each movement action costs like 1 pt of mobility, or something. So dashing can get you one square further than two moves. This is important to remember when you're, for example, one tile from the extraction zone/objective on a dash and you decide to move-move it.

Ravenfood posted:

Why would you take both Rapid Fire and Sentinel, though? Unless its changed, I don't think you can Rapid Fire and then overwatch, since LEU only triggers on basic shots.


You're correct, but it's different horses for different courses. If you're committing entirely to overwatch, Sentinel VPT is going to be better. But there will be situations where you need to move and shoot, or you need something to die now, not possibly during Overwatch. In those situations, you would use Rapid Fire to shoot three times in your turn. You're going to get better and more frequent use out of Sentinel VPT but there will be times you wish you had Rapid Fire.


Not a Step posted:

Yeah. I gotta admit Im highly considering going into the .ini and changing perks around to standardize my builds across soldiers.

How painless is this to do? I have a side project I want to make rebalancing things so that you can play Long War with a pair of soldiers co-op, like you could kind of do on Easy Vanilla. I'm planning to just convert one of the classes into "COMMANDO" who gets all the best perks to choose from and you and your friend/partner/mom take a soldier each and co-op through the hordes. It's just not really possible in default Long War because the class powers are spread out across 8 different people and the game is much harder.

For anybody interested (which is probably nobody), what I want to do:

COMMANDO Class with:
Vital Point Targeting
Light 'Em Up/ Run N' Gun / Rapid Fire
Covering Fire / Close Combat Specialist / Packmaster
Opportunist / Lightning Reflexes / Fire Rocket
Supression / Close Encounters / Flush
Lock N' Load / Sprinter / Shredder Ammo
Sentinel / In The Zone / Danger Zone

Now ideally to make it actually somewhat possible (and fun in a ridiculous way) I'd like to make it so instead of picking, they just get all three perks each levelup. So all LCPL Commandos would get LEU RNG and RF, all CPLs would have CF CCS Packmaster, etc. I'd also roll a lot of other useful perks onto items to free up perk space on trees while also rebalancing the game for a fun two-player mode with all of Long War's new toys. Stuff I'd like to autogrant:

Sapper, Dense Smoke, Steadfast, Revive, Paramedic, Resilience on Titan/Power armor, Snap-shot on mid-tier rocket launchers and above, HEAT Warheads standard on all rockets, Gunslinger standard on pistols. In this way neither one of you has to say "I'll pass up something fun for Dense Smoke", or replace Dense Smoke with any of the above perks.

I think it'd be a fun little romp if balanced to actually be do-able.

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Beagle
Dec 8, 2012

It's fine...

Vib Rib posted:

The game absolutely needs a respec mechanism. I don't care if it's a third-party save game editor, I've just made too many bad choices.

MEC TIME :rms:

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