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Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.
How would you guys feel about a Systems admin potions where you have a normal on call rotation AND helpdesk rotation in a large company. The helpdesk rotation where you would be answering calls with the level1 staff and then also training them to all grown up sysadmins.

How many red flags would that set off?

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Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.

Martytoof posted:

I guess the question I have is what are you on call for normally that isn't tier 1? If you're like a guy who deals with network equipment or vSphere stuff and you have to start fielding calls about people not being able to print or their mouse is acting weird then that sounds kind of awful.

Its not a job that I am interested in. A conversation came up with an IT Director who thought that making his admins do a helpdesk rotation was doing them a favor. Giving them more "exposure" to execs so they dont' get laid off.

Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.

MC Fruit Stripe posted:

During my last round of interviews, I went in and had a one-on-one for about an hour. It went well. I got a call later that day saying that they'd like me to come back and take computer based skills tests. How long will that take? Approximately five hours. Seriously?


That would have to one great job to get me to take a 5 hour test for them.

Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.

GreatGreen posted:

Thanks! Is there any other software that will work as well or is Microsoft Deployment Toolkit far and away the best solution?

For windows only, its the best bet.

Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.

GreatGreen posted:

I'm trying to figure out this as well. All the driver packages I've ever installed were done through installer programs. I'm not sure how well those could be automated through the deployment workbench. I wonder if most drivers can be installed with preconfigurable text strings.

You will have to extract the drivers out of the installers. Sometimes this is a pain because of the way that the installers are packaged.

To make this super easy, if you already have a machine that has all the drivers installed, simply copy the drive folders from the C:\Windows\System32\DriverStore directories. Import all the drivers there to the mdt drivers store.

Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.

Char posted:

So, umm, feel free to insult me if I didn't find any discussion here regarding what I'm going to ask about : has anyone ever built some custom tool to monitor, via SNMP, the status of one/many printers? I don't like Xerox's XDA application, and I've got a bunch of Brother/HP/Sharp printers which obviously won't register with it; all in all I've got 20 something printers keep under control.

I've found the OID tree regarding... pretty much everything printer-related, even the text on the display (http://oid-info.com/cgi-bin/display?tree=1.3.6.1.2.1.43), but I guess I'll have to develop something myself, a quick glance on the web didn't give me useful results.

We use spiceworks to monitor printers only. It does everything we would want without much effort.

Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.

Daylen Drazzi posted:

New guy was getting a little snippy from being both bored and frustrated - he got a laptop after only being here 3 days (a miracle honestly - it usually takes a full week), and he got his CAC and login account set up. He's watching me and the other two guys on our team logging into vCenter and RDPing into servers with our credentials and finally comes over in a huff and asks why he can't log into anything even after getting his login account.

I had to gently tell him that there is a big difference between getting his login account, and getting the admin accounts created, and that even if he had them that very minute there was no way in hell the team lead is going to let him log in to servers without someone to watch over his shoulder or walk him through things. His response was "this is so slow, and it's hard to just sit here and read paperwork", to which everyone started laughing. Poor guy hasn't even gotten through the initial paperwork packet - there are two more that will each take a week to read through, plus a couple safety and training videos that will take another 6-8 hours to view. I hope he enjoys the active shooter video - it's pretty fun to watch.

Is this a helpdesk job or something?

Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.

Docjowles posted:

By a friend/colleague, or by your potential new employer? How many times do we have to post that you shouldn't be the one to propose the first salary number? :negative:

At this point we have to be getting trolled here.

Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.

Jeoh posted:

Well, that's what NAP is for.

Nap is too underused. Its what it was made for.

Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.

Acc-Risk posted:

Just wanted to share an experience, and maybe help someone in the process...

I've been looking for the last year, without much success. Recently I signed up with a new recruiter, and after a few back and forth conversations, sent me a resume of a guy there that gets hired on the spot for every position he applies for. Was told to copy his format and get back to them.

So I did. And dropped my new resume on Careerbuilder.

Result? 3-5 interviews a week, which after 3 weeks, I was able to pick and choose who I wanted to work for. The one I chose actually cold called me one night, and I nearly didn't answer the phone as I didn't recognize the number. They had this to say, "I'm glad this worked out. I just happened across your resume on Careerbuilder..." So I asked them if I hadn't found them on CB, how do they recruit, as they are in Maryland and I'm in CO. He said that he finds 99% of his clients through LinkdIn. My resume apparently stuck out to him, (as it did to others as I received a LOT of compliments.) I don't use LinkdIn at all, but apparently I should have as I heard similar stories from other recruiters.

I'll link a copy of my resume here in a bit if there's interest.

I've noticed a trend just in the last few months of fairly reputable organizations severely undercutting pay simply because they know that people need a job. I *almost* took a job before all this with the US Olympic Committee... Guess what they were offering? Under $20/hr. Reasoning? Those 5 rings. Not sure about everyone else here, but I value food and rent over being able to say, "I work for the Olympics." New job titled at Virtualization Engineer at more than 5 times that, with insane benefits.

Yes, this magic resume should be posted.

Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.

psydude posted:

Companies will always attempt to keep helpdesk workers at the helpdesk. If you want to make a decent salary, you'll have to pick up a desktop gig or some kind of admin position, and the likelihood of you doing that at your current company is very, very low.

Finding good people to work your helpdesk is a loving challenge. The reality is that the ones you want that will make the helpdesk manager a superstar won't stay at the helpdesk for long. Most successful helpdesk managers are great at convincing great employees to sabotage their careers by staying in the dregs longer than they needed to.

Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.

myron cope posted:

When I interviewed, they said everyone in IT starts at the help desk. This may be a thing that everyone says? But the two guys I interviewed with started at help desk 10 or so years ago and now they're management. Obviously not a path everyone can take, I get that. But there are 5 or so sysadmins and a couple of programmers and I think most of them did start at the help desk (although I don't know how long they stayed there). Supposedly the company is expanding, but again that could just be a thing everyone says. Every company is doing great right up until they aren't...

I'm not attached to the company that much. If they make it worth my while then I'll stay, and if not I won't. I already started updating my LinkedIn profile thanks to that thread I just found out about like two days ago. My resume is next (I use the goon resume thing before and I think I'll have him update it for me).

The number of people who have heard "room for promotion" from their manager while working a job that paid poo poo who have also read this thread is probably staggering.

Take promises as a grain of salt in business. Only believe in what is actually happening.

Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.

pram posted:

This was my policy before, but a recent job I got used a background check company that required paystubs or a w2 for my previous job. So it can backfire I guess, I didn't lie this time though thankfully :yayclod:

They used this company:
http://www.hireright.com/

I ordered the free report after I was hired and everyone is right, previous companies only report your start and end date and your job title. YMMV

Any company that asks for your last w2 is probably a company you really don't want to work for.

Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.

CatsOnTheInternet posted:

What are you looking to optimize in your Citrix environment, specifically?


I'd walk away from my dream job if I had to surrender that information, as it contains info about my retirement account contributions and how many people are on my health insurance. But to each his own.

The folks who accept this slimy behavior also keep it around. Its pretty disgusting.

Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.

QPZIL posted:

Happy monday!



I'm catching the poo poo-end of the stick this morning because some guy's desk printer, which is for some reason connected to the network instead of his local machine, won't get a network connection!

Checked the cables, checked the switch, no dice. "This is affecting production!!" Yes, yes I know it is sir, and I'm working on it as fast as I can, but I can't magically make a JetDirect card work when it inevitably decides to crap out after like... 15 years.

SIGH. Mondays.

Personal printers are at the top of the gently caress printers list.

Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.

Cenodoxus posted:

Shape all streaming multimedia traffic down to 1Mbps tops. Anyone who complains is more than welcome to lobby the CIO for a faster circuit. :devil:

And then everyone users their phones for music and the bandwidth issue works itself out.

Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.

Fiendish Dr. Wu posted:

I've only put in less than 10 resumes and already 2 incoming interviews. (Another example of the work from Resume2Interviews).

One interview is tomorrow for a 4 month contract, the next is yet to be determined and for a city job.

How do you handle multiple interviews and make decisions about them? If I ace the interview tomorrow, at what point am I obligated to accept?

Also, this will be my first real interview ever. I have plenty of professional phone experience, but man... butterflies.

The 4 month contract is most likely trash. Never trust the short term stuff. I actually avoid contract work all together, even the stuff that is contract to hire.

Are you new to it?

Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.

stevewm posted:

I use PDQ Deploy/PDQ Inventory with a subscription to their package library.

Makes deploying Flash/Acrobat/Java updates pretty drat easy. Also has a ton of other apps that can be deployed. And its easy enough to make your own packages.

All of the machines I manage are spread around several locations, so I store the PDQ repository on a DFS share. Since each branch has a local file server, they all end up with a local copy of the packages to pull from during deployment.

If there is a new flash/java/firefox/whatever version i just download the package, and schedule a deployment to happen late at night.

http://aa.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/1wkdhh/pdq_deploy_packages_v134_includes_jre_7u51/

Not as reliable in releases as the PDQ sub, but immensely cheaper.

Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.

Sefal posted:

Update
the conversation didn“t go exactly as I wanted
I went and talked with my boss and I asked when am I going to get payed, I have bills to pay. He said at the end of this month and he apologized for taking way too long. When this month“s money comes in for him. I will be the 1st he pays, he said.

I did not mention that I would look for other jobs.
So for now. I am holding out until the end of this month. either he pays by then or I“m out.
And yeah I got the total amount he owes me written down.

You deserve all the punishment you receive. You don't even respect yourself, why should anyone else?

Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.

Sefal posted:

I come in 2 days, but I am on call 24/7

I believe we are being trolled.

Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.

Paladine_PSoT posted:

I've been hitting an hour easy on phone interviews lately, with the longest approaching 2 hours.

Ninja edit: that time is not for technical screens. Those are generally 45-60m

Since I am once again looking for new opportunities, I have talked to a few recruiters who had talked about coming in a separate day for a technical exam of some kind for the interview process. Each time I have flat out told them that I am not going to waste time on silly things like that. I am not in the stage of my career anymore. I am also not filling out any forms on their loving websites either. If I can't cut and paste or upload my resume than you don't pass go.

If whatever can't be figured out in a few phone interviews and a face to face, I don't give a poo poo what its for. So far not a single recruiter has balked. In reality it feels like the exact opposite happens and that it seems to only drive up their interest.

I don't feel like I have any magic mojo or anything but I haven't had a single face to face interview in which I wasn't offered the gig.

Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.

Paladine_PSoT posted:

I'm not adverse to technical phone screens. Then again, I'm not "IT", I do Technical Program Management for software development projects. If they want to get someone on the phone to discuss the SDLC with me before meeting me face to face, i'm fine with that. It lets them know that I can do the job before we get to the face to face so we can focus more on personality/style fit and other elements.

I agree. A few phone interviews and a face to face is enough for me. The face to face time is the only thing that should be extensive. I am not going to invest separate trips for a test like i am some high school kid taking his drivers written exam.

Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.

Lazer Vampire Jr. posted:

Re: Another Local Job Posting with Kitchen Sink Requirements


At least it didn't ask for 5 years experience with Server 2012 :smith:

I can't see a single company ever getting anywhere with those types of postings. Then again, there is probably a goon out there that did this job for free.

Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.

Lazer Vampire Jr. posted:

Very few if any job postings in my market (West Tennessee) post pay rates at all. I have a voicemail greeting that tells recruiters if they can't meet X hourly/salary requirement not to leave me a message otherwise I get weekly messages for dumb lowball poo poo jobs. Its really bad here.

@Inspector_666 its for Brewery/Beverage Packaging Company actually :shepface:

Oh hey heres another posting from the same company for a SysAdmin

Wow, who wouldn't sign up to be a system admin, program manager AND a manager all in one!

Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.

ElGroucho posted:

I was offered 100K+ to do my crummy, non-IT Army job as a civilian contractor. I can't imagine how much more an experienced IT dude makes. Unless I'm mistaken, that money is tax free.

The worst part is that there are stupid amounts of Signal Corps soldiers busy digging ditches and manning guard towers instead of doing the job the government paid thousands of dollars to train them on.

To be fair, the training they get is poo poo. I know, I was one of them.

Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.

QuiteEasilyDone posted:

YOTJ Update: This is getting outright silly. I think I have most of the bigname area recruiters calling now that I let the LFJ blood into the water. I've gotten 4 calls from them this morning looking for a first contact with me and just finished another round of interviews. It's downright nice to be wanted in this market.

There is a hump that you just get over that puts you into a sweet spot in this industry. I am currently in it as well.

Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.

CloFan posted:

Goon in a well update:

I got that promotion! Only, there's no extra pay and no extra benefits or PTO, only more responsibility and a shiny new title.

I'm awfully butthurt about it, especially considering I was informally promised a raise. The worst part is, I asked newboss if I could get a raise or if we could come to compromise with some extra PTO, and was shut down on all fronts. I got told we'd talk about it again at the end of the year. He went on about how just two years ago I was a teller, and since I started at the company (late 2010) I've had around a 60% increase in pay. While true, 60% of poo poo is still poo poo and I told him as much.

There's a chance a job will open up with a University in town in June (fiscal year renewal), and I'm a shoe-in for that if it happens. Problem is, the guy over it isn't sure he can get the new position approved by the powers that be.

I'm going to stick with the bank till at least May or whenever I know for sure on this other job, milking all the OT and certification books/test vouchers I can. I can have Sec+ and Net+ done by then, I think. One way or another, I'm :yotj:ing out of here this year.

Your employer doesn't value you. This happens sometimes for a number of different reasons, some of time simply because you have done your job too well without asking for much. The cycle goes kind of like this...

-You quit.
-Employer tries to replace you.
-They get someone just as cheap and the cycle continues or they realize that applicants won't take what they are offering and they have to change.

The end result usually is that none of this benefits you but mostly the next guy after you. Often times the move that benefits you most is leaving and making sure your next gig properly respects you.

Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.

AlternateAccount posted:

Would you folks like to ballpark salary for the requirements quoted below? Clearly there's some variance with certs and experience, but I basically smoke all the requirements by a pretty good margin, I think.
(I have no idea what Windows 2000/2003 Pro Server are...)

Sounds like a desktop role with some unfun sysadmin duties thrown in as a gently caress you. I wouldn't do the work for less than 60k, but often these types of roles are trying to get some expertise for free.

Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.

AlternateAccount posted:

Oh, hmm. OK. New company comes in to do the official change over. They bring a lot of staff in, including some HR folks to get all of our new documentation sorted out. (They budgeted I believe 15 minutes per person to do all new hire and insurance paperwork for each person, that's the kind of pros we're dealing with.)
Firstly, there's no discussion of pay with new positions or what your new job will be. Everyone has a folder full of various stuff, and there's a page in there with your new salary and position. Don't like it? Well tough. Also: no more bonus program, which was a non-inconsequential part of our salary. So for me, it ended up being about a 10% pay cut, it was worse for others. A few individuals were paid modest "retainment bonuses" but these didn't compensate for lost bonus $$$.
Also in the folder was a noncompete. Except, as I look through it... there's... two? And one is incomplete and the two different agreements have entirely different terms and contradict each other.
Being a dumbass, I had forgotten my SS card that day, so I couldn't even complete my paperwork. The HR goon didn't know poo poo about the non-compete(and it said things about not working in a similar capacity within 50 miles, etc) so I said, "Hey, let me take these and I will bring it back signed with my docs tomorrow." I went back to my desk and pretty quickly deduced that one of the docs was incomplete and didn't apply to me and the other was fine and rather loose, no problem.
Welllll she decided to tell the guy running the show(these are the same two people involved in the position info email above) while I was at lunch. I get back from lunch and get intercepted on the way to my desk. I get pulled into a small dark unused office and grilled.

:butt:: I hear you have some issues with our noncompete?
:geno:: Uhh, oh yeah, turns out one wasnt valid, it...
:butt::Oh, it's valid.
:geno::No, I mean it wasn't complete.
:butt::So why don't you want to sign it?
:geno::Well I...
:butt::We all have to do it, it's just a thing to protect the company from blah blah blah
:geno::Well the one wasn't complete, and taken without the last page, it would keep me from getting a job within the city.
:butt::Well...
:geno::It's fine, the one I signed is fine, since I actually received the complete document.

During this entire thing, there was another suit in there, a sales guy, I think. It's hard to express, but the whole thing was very arms folded adversarial. It wasn't what you'd expect, something like, "Hey, you have to sign it to take the position, but let's talk about your concerns and make sure they're not based on a misreading and make sure there's nothing we can do to work it out."
I definitely got the feeling that if I'd told them I didn't think I wanted to sign it, I would have been marched out immediately. Also bear in mind that I had JUST met these people, and had just had my salary cut maybe two hours before. Yeah.

Stop worrying about non-competes. They aren't worth the paper they are printed on.

Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.

AlternateAccount posted:

Well, more managers I've dealt with have taken it this way than not. Salary is usually seen as a way to extract shitloads of overtime from someone for "free."

Its a two way street. The employer has to push for it AND the employee has to agree to do it. You can reasonably decline not to do something unreasonable. So far its worked for me.

Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.
Welp, it appears I was fired today randomly out of the blue. Reason given "insubordination".

After some back channeling it turns out that the reason I was fired was because I had connected with a recruiter on linked in. It appears that the marketing dept has a few people monitor everyone's linkedin accounts. Marketing goes directly to the owner and the owner makes the call without talking to anyone in your dept/chain of command. It seems so far that I am not even close to being the first.

One part of me thinks I should have had better privacy settings and the other (more logical side) says gently caress working for any company with such a stupid policy.

I am getting a months pay at least. Probably will end up being a net gain for me this year. Business is silly sometimes.

Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.

HatfulOfHollow posted:

I would be fired about 10 times over. That is the dumbest policy I've ever heard. You need to Glassdoor that poo poo when you get a new job. People need to be warned.

I plan to. Going to let the pain dry first. Don't want to make it too obvious.

The owner is looking for buyers for the company. I believe firings paints a better picture to buyers than high percentage of voluntary turn over. The 7 out of the last 10 people who left were at this company for 6+ years. Only 110 employees total. 4 of those were with the company when it started.

I am not exactly feeling low about it. The market is so good right now and I am excited.

Sickening fucked around with this message at 02:16 on Mar 4, 2014

Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.

Caged posted:

loving hell that's rough. Glad you're positive about it though.

Might be time to use the recruiter you connected with.

I have updated my resume and uploaded it to all the major job posting sites. Tomorrow I plan on sending my resume to all the recruiters I have worded with in the past as well as going to my tried and trusty google maps method.

I have already generated about a call every two days with a 2 year old resume on them. poo poo is probably going to be bananas for the next week. System admins are needed loving everywhere no matter the variations in titles.

Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.

Daylen Drazzi posted:

That's total bullshit honestly. I have half a dozen recruiters linked who I've worked with in the past - it doesn't mean that I'm actively looking. In fact, a lot of times I just like to read some of their posts and articles to get an idea on how they see where the IT employment market is heading 6-12 months from now.

Just another example of some jackass who is too caught up in his own power. God forbid someone be proactive about their career and threaten that precious peon status. If I had the ability and something like that happened to me I'd love to be able to form my own company just to take all the company's clients and drive the motherfucker into personal bankruptcy.

He is old (close to 80) with health problems and a 39 year old wife. His the top two execs under him are men who married his daughters for what probably was not good intentions and are basically despised in the company. I wouldn't even want to think about what his home life accounts to.

Saying all that he is a very charismatic person who has some very dark secrets I am sure. I wouldn't trade my life for his and I don't have any need for vengeance. I also don't feel sorry for him either.

Its a very valuable lesson though that everyone here should probably take under consideration.

1. Defend yourself at all times. Take better care of what is visible to your employer.
2. Small companies take things more personal. Smaller things have great visibility. You actually find yourself walking on eggshells more often than in bigger companies.
3. Always keep your employment options open and live well below your means. I wouldn't be in this good of a situation if I didn't.

Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.

Cenodoxus posted:

I understand that can be a very vague excuse and might be easy to defend, but how are the employment laws in your area? Do you have any kind of legal recourse for a bullshit firing like that?

"At will" state so no.

Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.

Sickening posted:

I have updated my resume and uploaded it to all the major job posting sites. Tomorrow I plan on sending my resume to all the recruiters I have worded with in the past as well as going to my tried and trusty google maps method.

I have already generated about a call every two days with a 2 year old resume on them. poo poo is probably going to be bananas for the next week. System admins are needed loving everywhere no matter the variations in titles.

Well, I have looked for a job for an entire day. I have an interview tomorrow for a gig I don't even have to get on a highway to get to (in texas mind you).

:getin:

I started getting phone calls from every recruiter known to mankind. Some scams, some legit. The job I have lined up only had my resume for 5 minutes.

Sickening fucked around with this message at 21:50 on Mar 4, 2014

Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.

Tab8715 posted:

On the same subject what are the popular sites? Indeed, Craigslist, Dice are the ones that come to mind...

Indeed (its also a mesh of them all in some ways)
Careerbuilder
Craigslist (terrible in texas)
Dice
Monster
Cybercoders (even for non coding jobs)

Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.

Bob Morales posted:

What's the general consensus on having battery backups in your rack at a co-location facility?

We have one with a dead battery in it, and the replacement is here but I probably won't get to install it for another couple days since I have to drive 2 hours to get there.

It's not a huge deal because we've never lost power there, and our failover setup isn't really what you call 'working', it'd be more like "drive down there and get our servers and backup data etc and bring them back here and set it up in temporary office space" to be honest.

Anyway, a quick Google search turns up that some co-location facilities don't even allow you to put a UPS in your rack. I know our location has a bunch of generators and a huge rack of batteries and crap.

First I heard of you being able to. In all honesty I wouldn't do it. Its too much expense for what you are getting. You are already paying for UPS and Generators with the fees you pay to the colo.

Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.

Caged posted:

Applying to poo poo through Indeed got me the most responses. LinkedIn is poo poo if you're actively looking for work (as opposed to just having an up to date profile and having people contact you with offers) because it hides stuff like salary information unless you pay for a job seekers account.

Linkedin hasn't been too great for me for my area. I feel like you would have to connect with every person you know or have ever known to get it producing for you and I don't want to go down that road.

Indeed is really solid. Probably my favorite. I think its the cheapest for employers too.

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Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.

Caged posted:

I dunno, some of your wage figures of $60k for helpdesk surprise me because it sounds like a huge amount of cash. I wouldn't say cost of living is particularly cheap, VAT is 20%, taxes are about average for Europe. I have trouble working out what your extra costs are that mean you aren't living like kings, especially as something that costs $1000 ends up being £1000. Medical? Other insurance that everyone has to have? College fund?

I think the average UK salary is something like £26k, but I don't think that's a comfortable amount to be living on vs. just getting by. Obviously depends where you are.

The average american lifestyle is really wasteful. The amount of money we spend on air condition and commuting is pretty nuts.

  • Locked thread