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Xandu posted:How do human trials for a vaccine work? In general, by giving the people chosen for the study the vaccine and exposing them to the disease causing agent. With emergency response units on alert at all times to treat people who end up getting the disease.
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Sep 1, 2014 06:28
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IAMNOTADOCTOR posted:No. Just no. Vaccinations have enough PR problems without rumours about a modern Unit 731.
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Sep 1, 2014 16:58
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SedanChair posted:It's interesting that you claim human vaccine trials for lethal diseases involve people saying "I volunteer as tribute" That's not what I'm claiming. We got vaccines for a ton of diseases with way lower mortality rates as well as being much more treatable. Not everything's ebola.
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Sep 1, 2014 19:09
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GROVER CURES HOUSE posted:I am sorry re: your early onset Alzheimer's. I eagerly await a four page semantic argument about how the risk of death differs from other complications as to make your statement any less absurd. Interesting how you just makes things up, meme name.
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Sep 1, 2014 23:18
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If nothing else, militarized police with fuckin' near-tanks and biohazard gear should be able to enforce quarantines in America.
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Sep 5, 2014 02:42
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Unhinged Vulcan posted:god i hope not. it would turn into a bloodbath. it would be bad. Do you not remember the way the police got nearly the entire population of Boston to stay inside while the manhunt went on? Not what I'd call a bloodbath, and that was accomplished despite not being mandatory. Nintendo Kid fucked around with this message at 03:50 on Sep 5, 2014 |
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Sep 5, 2014 03:39
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enraged_camel posted:That occurred immediately after two bombs exploded in public, killed three people and injured over two hundred. Everyone was scared shitless, so of course they cooperated. So let's say 50 people dying horribly, no one will be scared shitless of this happening in their town? You've got to be kidding. enraged_camel posted:A sizable chunk, especially in places like the Deep South, would see any quarantine as an attempt by Obama to install Sharia law. They would grab their guns and battle the police and the national guard. And we'll all be better off when those people are arrested and kept off the streets, which they will be since the hunting store's fanciest gun ain't gonna do poo poo against the bomb resistant armored personnel carriers the Shitsville, Oklahoma PD just got from Iraq War surplus sales.
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Sep 5, 2014 05:07
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enraged_camel posted:Did they die because of ebola, or because of Obama's death panels?????? Those people will barricade themselves in their lovely mini-fuhrerbunkers they love so much and thus self-quarantine. Issue cleared.
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Sep 5, 2014 05:28
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enraged_camel posted:Or they will perceive it as an existential threat, form militias with their idiot friends and try to fight off the quarantine forces. And then they will die or be arrested, which will be good. Like I said, Freeper McGee's Tacticlol AR 15 isn't going to do poo poo against the Bumston County Sheriff's MRAP fleet and SWAT team. They'll also be tiny outliers who won't be likely to be exposed to the virus to begin with.
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Sep 5, 2014 05:34
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Unhinged Vulcan posted:So you are certain that The United States population would be receptive to this: Yes. Because what are they going to do about it, fight the guy with gun and armored hazmat suit just to rub against an ebola dude?
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Sep 5, 2014 16:07
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Doomtalker posted:Counterpoint- rent's gotta be paid, mortgage isn't going to go away. Heat is a must in winter, and food is a must at all times. Most people have no cash reserves, and that means going to work regardless. Even when the state has been shut down for blizzards and the Boston Bombing, retail guys still had to go to work. If the options are risk ebola or be homeless for sure, most folks will roll the dice. You would probably have things like the national guard issuing stockpiled rations to people in case a long term quarantine. And I don't think the county sheriff is going to be inclined to go around serving eviction orders during and right after a full scale regional quarantine. Yes people still went to work after the Boston Bombing, but that wasn't even a mandatory quarantine situation, people were just asked to stay off the streets with no penalty for disobeying. A police badge is going to be enough to make some grumbling manager shut up about no one showing up to his business that's illegal to get to in the first place.
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Sep 5, 2014 17:20
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Doomtalker posted:Wrongo, Fishmech. You really think the rentier class is going to lay off squeezing the poors for their free money just because those dirty poors have caught the sniffles? This is America! Land of opportunity!(To squeeze those poor fuckers for all they're worth.) The sheriff is going to get his orders to put people on the street, but they can't be on the street- so they will go to jail. The police have no mercy, come on, man. You know better than that. They get their orders from the rich, and the rich have neither patience nor sympathy. Honestly, my brain can't go to the logical endgame, here- it's too loving bleak. But if there's one thing I've learned in life, you cannot trust the police to do the right thing. Tell me more about how the rich are going to get customers in their stores when the cops are barricading the malls and wal marts.  It's like you don't get that half the point of so many major retail chains being a franchise model is that the corporation as a whole has lesser risk if a few stores go under while the general manager of McDonald's #45939 could barely afford to bribe a cop to avoid a traffic ticket.
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Sep 5, 2014 17:44
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Evilreaver posted:Walmarts and chain supermarkets go under and the corps don't give a poo poo, small stores can't get supplies through quarantine (and if they can, not in a volume to make up for the hole left by corps; not in sales nor, more importantly, in employment opportunities) No one cares about small stores, and small stores haven't been a significant portion of business for many decades. They'd also shut down if their employees caught fuckin' ebola too.
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Sep 5, 2014 17:58
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Doomtalker posted:Ah, yes, because money is notoriously sterile. Also, quarantines will certainly allow total movement within the quarantine zone, when Boston PD's idea of handling things was demonstrably keeping people literally in their homes a mere 2 years ago. Be realistic- if cops get carte blanche to enact house arrest on towns, counties, and states at a time, do you really think the economies will thrive? If they don't, do you really think multinational corporations will have any patience for the region? I'll give you a hint: investments in sierra lione are not exactly rocketing right now. Economies will thrive a lot more with a month cool down and 5 deaths instead of free trade and tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of deaths, yes. Also, credit and debit cards exist, and the government has legal authority to demand the surrender of old currency to be exchanged for new. This will be especially easy to compel at banks and retail establishments.
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Sep 5, 2014 20:08
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Doomtalker posted:C'mon, fishmech. What planet are you on? What retail employee doesn't have to slide each card, every card, for every retail customer, because they're all dumb as poo poo? What retail employee, what gas pumper or parking concierge feels that 6 weeks of no paycheck is worth some rear end in a top hat in the midwest maybe dying? America might believe in germs, but blue collar Joe has a mandate to not become homeless or starve to death, and I do not believe that the million/billionaires have a moment of mercy for those who shake hands and take money from the unwashed masses. After all, ebola is awfully hard to transfer if you don't touch the infected(currently). Rent does need to be paid, after all. Can't have the parasites live rent free, right? That's why you'd quarantine people out of businesses, friend.  What, the employees and the customers are going to dodge militarized police lines to go the store in Quarantined For Ebolaville, USA?
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Sep 5, 2014 20:26
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Doomtalker posted:Enjoy my self Ad Homienem. I've worked in retail too. If there was cops blocking entrances to our store we would be unable to operate. It's really simple! See all the things you've described are things where there aren't cops enforcing no questions asked blocks against all public places.
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Sep 5, 2014 20:43
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Doomtalker posted:The problem here is your innocent assumption that the US police would ever stand in front of a retail store and stop anybody from going in and get away with it. There is no chance that happens. The state will issue a warning, cops will stake out the streets and pull people over- and yet, the stores will be open and staffed, and have people come in and spend money. The customers will not be locals- mostly immigrants. The retail staffers will be those without the ability to "call out" without repercussion. It has happened, it will happen again. How is that an "innocent assumption"? In Ferguson cops got right away with blocking many businesses for literally no reason at all. This was happening less than two weeks ago! The stores are not going to be open if the cops block them. Full stop. Also where the hell are immigrants going to come from in the middle of an ebola crisis so severe that localized quarantines are imposed? It's hard enough to immigrate to the US during normal conditions. Nintendo Kid fucked around with this message at 21:15 on Sep 5, 2014 |
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Sep 5, 2014 21:11
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Doomtalker posted:That's a big if. I'll give it to you, though. None of that is a "big if". It's literally what a quarantine would be. Peven Stan posted:I don't know about you guys but my company's policy is to pay people as if they were working in the event of some kind of epidemic/pandemic. And I can get my groceries through amazon dot com prime shipping! Ah yes, because you're totally going to make your shift at The Building Being Blocked Off By Cops and then go shopping at The Supermarket That's Also Being Blocked Off By Cops. Nintendo Kid fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Sep 6, 2014 |
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Sep 6, 2014 00:01
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Baloogan posted:Goddamn. Anyone have any good streams to watch? Sierra Leone is in the top 10 poorest nations in the world and about 2% of the population has internet access. You're probably not going to get streams.
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Sep 6, 2014 00:43
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Torpor posted:I really don't think this type of thing is necessarily such a great idea. US Hospitals are not good at stopping contagious pathogens. Yes they are.
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Sep 10, 2014 04:15
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Rygar201 posted:Bushmeat causes Meningitis? Hospitals don't tend to have wild animals running around to kill for food.
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Sep 10, 2014 07:03
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suboptimal posted:Aren't most Cuban doctors basically trained to the level of a US EMT-P? I could be easily wrong about this, but I've heard that before. No, they're quite well trained. Their access to medicine and equipment on the other hand, that'll often be closer to what you'd have available to the paramedics in a standard ambulance than what a doc might have access to at a full hospital.
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Sep 28, 2014 03:41
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Unlucky7 posted:For serious, is now the time to think we are all going to die horribly? Do you plan to lick and run up a bunch of corpses and visibly extremely sick people in the near future? If not, no.
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Sep 30, 2014 23:04
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BULBASAUR posted:Now that its on 2 continents does it count as a pandemic No. Pandemics require there to be millions of people infected, considering the current world population.
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Sep 30, 2014 23:24
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Paul MaudDib posted:Not from the real-world side of epidemiology - I generally work from the modeling side of things. But if it's such an easy thing to do, then why can't these African countries handle it? Is Bumfuck, Alabama going to be able to do significantly better? Because Bumfuck, Alabama has a functioning government and at least public trust in county/local institutions even if they might think the president is a satanic muslim or whatever. Sheriff Bob's your buddy.
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Oct 2, 2014 04:41
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Paul MaudDib posted:True, although only as long as the intervention remains localized and it's Sheriff Bob running things. Guys in MOPP suits, maybe not so much. Sheriff Bob and his temporary deputies can carry out the duties in protective suits if need be. They don't need to treat people after all, just get the obviously sick guy handed off to a friendly ambulance drive. Really, you're trying much too hard to blow things out of proportion - worst comes to worst sealing off county access becomes quite easy with some spare troops and state police.
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Oct 2, 2014 05:46
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Rabble posted:American healthcare and crisis response.jpg Correct, American healthcare and crisis response.jpg is a picture following scientifically vetted procedure for cleaning up a biohazard of this type. A good post. Pohl posted:Everyone made fun of me for talking about Capitalism and cost. Look at this poo poo. What about it? It's a cheapy wrap and paint job. fits my needs posted:I don't think proper containment procedures are being followed in Dallas. That's literally as much containment as you need for people in this condition. Sheng-ji Yang posted:No, but you'd think they'd directly handle the first cases to prevent a larger outbreak where they can't directly control things. Yeah you'd expect that... if you know nothing of how they operate, and how they prefer to keep their best trained agents safe as long as possible in case something needs to be done in a real hurry - say a few hundred people needing stuff done. For this, every major city area has to have tons of people trained to the same standards and there's little need to waste a jet flight from ATL. CheesyDog posted:Unpaid sick leave doesn't feed your kids. And after all, it's probably just a cold, nothing to really worry about! ConGlomCo Franchise #584 can easily find someone else desperate for a minimum wage job at a lower risk to their bottom line than letting people stay at work visibly sick during a disease emergency. Alas Boobylon posted:I know all the cool kids are saying Ebola's not very infectious, but please PLEASE keep in mind that the bulk of our knowledge of how this virus operates comes from small populations that were quickly stamped out. We now certainly have novel strains that are specializing in aerosol resilience. We know we have these strains because countless iterations of virus have been selectively pressured to reproduce in this manner for months now: those that do it well, live, those that don't, die and Ebola overall is definitely NOT dying! Early in the outbreak every conversation was bracketed by the tut-tuting of "the fear is worse than the disease." Well, we've left that point behind. Yes in a perfect utopian world the combined efforts of ten thousand medics would easily eradicate the virus in weeks, but if such a world existed the virus wouldn't ever be propagated in the first place. We have been stupid, the virus has exploited this by flooding West Africa with quadrillions of novel iterations. They aren't airborne but anyone who isn't wearing a full hazmat suit is vulnerable to symptomatic people in close quarters, even for a moment. Oh, and if the virus evolves to shed BEFORE the host is symptomatic? Don't think that can't happen with essentially unlimited genetic dice rolls. Goon's idea: this post Reality: a man falls through the earth and into parisian catacombs. taking a torch from the wall he spies row upon row of skeletons. grasping the nearest by the shoulders, he shakes it madly, yelling "my nigga have u tried zmapp???" Pohl posted:Why does a resident have access to the people inside? Once again, failure. Correct, you have a failure to understand quarantine requirements needed for ebola. Don't know why you felt you had to admit it, but whatever. Pohl posted:A quarantine is useless if people can just walk up and knock on the door. No it ain't. Brannock posted:Ebola will be inconsequential. Just because some people here have trouble hearing truth does not mean you people are actually right. Trabisnikof posted:To be fair, its horrible image control regardless. Not exactly inspiring confidence in the public even if it ends up not being as dangerous as it appears. And what's going to happen from "losing confidence"? People refusing to get treatment out of spite? Pohl posted:No one is panicking, except that one guy. Why does everyone think we are panicking? We are talking about how loving stupid our government and healthcare systems are. Yes you're talking about falsehoods in this case. Good for you, that means you're panicking.
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Oct 3, 2014 04:27
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Bel Shazar posted:Does becoming aware of my lack of preparations for riding out some kind of epidemic count as panicking? Because I don't think I'm panicking, but the whole situation has engendered a feeling of "Hmm, I wouldn't mind stocking up a bit on some basic necessities over the next few months." Just remember that the same preparations help for all other disasters. And no matter where you are theres some manner of disaster that's common to your area that ya need to be ready for anyway. Pohl posted:What the hell? Tell me what I've been false about, I'd appreciate it. I mean that sincerely, because I will consider it and stew and it and whatnot. I'm keeping an open mind about this entire thing, so if you can tell me what I did wrong, I'd appreciate it. Practically everything you've posted with regard to the healthcare system and actual and future responses thereof. Including your clownish sub-GBS level understanding of what's needed for quarantine of asymptomatic individuals.
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Oct 3, 2014 04:38
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Bel Shazar posted:The scenario I'm worried about is the scare grows and at the same time a few additional cases pop up around Dallas and all of a sudden it's Martial Law from El Paso to Beaumont and I'm stuck at home for a month For real those buckets of mre food they sell on like Amazon are pretty ok. We'd get them for big scout camping stuff and they'll last forever and are reasonably cheap for what they are. You'd almost certainly be sick and tired of eating them after day 20 but whatever ya know.
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Oct 3, 2014 04:47
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Blue Star posted:Will this accelerate research towards a vaccine or better treatment? Yes, having a very large stock of people infected and people who survive will mean that there's people to test on for treatments and vaccines. But, ya know, that will be tied to probably a minimum of 100,000 people dead and at least half again as much suffering through all the pain and managing to survive.
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Oct 4, 2014 07:18
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Discendo Vox posted:Not necessarily- they won't be able to collect very good information if this is really a large-scale interventionary approach. Of course, the sort of spray-and-pray administration it's going to get isn't going to be all that efficacious, either. The thing is that one of the many things that have hindered ongoing research was that nearly all outbreaks were small and tended to be concentrated in rural areas that are hard to get to. An unfortunate consequence of a truly endemic manifestation of ebola in urban centers will be that people will be continuously exposed for long periods of time, a s well as a lot of people who've survived at least one bout. And both of those things will create much larger pools for studying how to survive it as well as possibly how to create a vaccine or treatment. But it's still in the worst possible way.
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Oct 4, 2014 16:03
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Grouchio posted:Who's the quack who just said that Ebola's bigger a challenge than AIDS? That's true though. AIDS is now something where people can live normal lifespans with medications (so long as the money's available). And spread of it is relatively easy to halt, as evidenced by how its prevalence hasn't gotten particularly worse in recent years. We don't have something like that for ebola. Prester John posted:Doesn't the majority of Coltan, a rare earth mineral that is vital for computer chips, come from Africa? Also I think a sizeable chunk of the worlds copper, a huge portion of its rubber, and a not insignificant amount of oil etc etc? I'm no expert but I am under the impression that though the various African economies are small in terms of dollars that is mostly because the West vastly underpays them for what are some incredibly important raw materials. Yeah, maybe the stock market isn't going to fall because the economy of the DRC collapsed. But if Goodyear had to suddenly start rationing tire sales well..... You... you do know that 2/3 of global rubber usage is synthetic rubber right, particularly in mass market tires? And that copper is so recyclable and high value people steal it from vacant lots constantly, let alone straight up selling it for scrap? You misunderstand the vulnerability of these resources. It is no longer WWII so loss of access to a portion of global natural rubber isn't the economy risker it used to be. ComradeCosmobot posted:I think the scenarios discussed in this thread (workaholic culture esp. in customer-facing positions, the indigent, lovely handling of patients within health care systems, the fact that health care workers are among my those at highest risk leading to increased propensity of health care system collapse and concomitant accelerated infection rates, etc.) disprove any argument that the first world won't sustain a pandemic. Yes because everyone's going to hang out at the lovely retail store where the ebola guy's still working the counter instead of going to the next store over where the super sick dudes get fired. Arsenic Lupin posted:New York Times, paywalled Just FYI: all NY Times articles that appear in press and are less than about 15 years old are unpaywalled as long as the viewer clicked a link from somewhere else.
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Oct 10, 2014 05:33
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Ebola Roulette posted:I'd expect people to freak out if those statistics grew exponentially too. 0 to 1 to 0 again is not exponential growth Nessus posted:Category 7 there seems a little too specific. Are people, in fact, digging their own graves and then laying in them to await death? Are there mass outbreaks of suicide? I mean, hell, there could be, but you'd think someone would have said something. The IDIS Category 7 description is essentially the worst days recorded during the Black Death and similar scale outbreaks.
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Oct 11, 2014 04:38
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Ebola Roulette posted:I couldn't have possibly been referring to West Africa If you were you were an idiot for using it in an argument about deaths in the US, jesus christ.
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Oct 11, 2014 17:10
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Ebola Roulette posted:Yes I am an idiot but what I said is not less intelligent than comparing cancer to a contagious disease. No, it really is. The point is people are freaking out over the US collapsing because one guy died of ebola, while people in the US die of various other causes in the hundreds and even thousands every day but this somehow doesn't read as "going to collapse the US" to the same people. Hell if you restrict it to just communicable disease deaths daily there's somewhere between 500 and 700 of those in the US on an average day.
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Oct 11, 2014 17:22
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Charlz Guybon posted:They are freaking out because they understand the words exponential growth and you apparently do not. They don't understand exponential growth, actually. And you don't either. You don't seem to be comprehending that a) exponential growth never continues forever and b) merely spreading to other places doesn't mean they're going to get overwhelmed the way countries that were already barely functioning day-to-day before the outbreak do. Even Nigeria's been able to keep poo poo under control and they're both relatively close by and dealing with an ongoing low-burn civil war with Boko Haram and other groups. Ebola Roulette posted:I agree that no one should be worried about Ebola collapsing the US. But to think that Ebola is no longer a threat now that Duncan is dead is on the opposite extreme. There is still 0 risk of the US et al collapsing if ebola shows up. No one's saying there's no threat of people dying, just that there's no threat of society collapsing and hoo doggy better get to my unabomber shack before the Mad Max mutants overrun Shady Pines.
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Oct 11, 2014 17:53
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Fruity Rudy posted:I'm confused as to how they're planning on getting West Africa spread under control as is being claimed. I've seen zero evidence at the moment that that is an achievable outcome. All of those nations have a really poor public health infrastructure, a poorly informed public, governments without any real resources to deal with an outbreak of this size, and ideal poor hygiene conditions for transmission. Yes, we have dealt with Ebola in the past, but it burned out before reaching significant population clusters. What's the magic bullet that's going to change that math in West Africa? It isn't like the population that ignored local official warnings is suddenly going to follow the instructions of foreign health workers. You do have to understand that current notions of "getting west africa under control" include things like west african nations collapsing so spectacularly that it becomes extremely difficult for people in afflicted countries to get about within their own countries, let alone travel to others. And this happening while stronger West African states are able to patrol their borders to isolate or arrest (or possibly even straight up kill) people attempting to flee. Much like how ebola in the past tended to become under control because it would wipe all but 5 people in a cluster of rural towns and those 5 people just happened to not catch it in the meantime, so it's looking like "under control" will be in West Africa.
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Oct 13, 2014 17:44
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tuyop posted:I checked on the off chance that I might have something that could be used to help people, and saw this message: They may be short on resources for other areas needing their services due to ebola response.
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Oct 13, 2014 20:04
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:This just isn't true. Ebola is highly infectious and the slightest bit of infected bodily fluid (including sweat) coming in contact with the tiniest of cuts, nose, eyes, mouth, etc will pretty much infect you. The whole "you have to basically roll around in their vomit" meme is bullshit. So you're saying 40 years of research is wrong now? Enlighten us, medical wizard bringing the conspiracy down.
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Oct 14, 2014 06:18
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:What exactly did I say that goes against 40 years of medical research on ebola? "Ebola is highly infectious and the slightest bit of infected bodily fluid (including sweat) coming in contact with the tiniest of cuts, nose, eyes, mouth, etc will pretty much infect you." Did ebola kill your short term memory?
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Oct 14, 2014 06:41
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