World of Darkness Megathread: Curse of the Were-Poster

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > World of Darkness Megathread: Curse of the Were-Poster

«‹›5 »

Zereth: Jul 9, 2003

SunAndSpring posted:

You know, they really could have just solved many of their problems with Heroes in literally one sentence: "Good Heroes hunt Bad Beasts, while Bad Heroes hunt Good Beasts."

Have they actually made there be a way for a Beast to be Good? Because it sounds from over here like they just put a different coat of paint on top of the irredeemable monsters.

Poltergrift posted:

Even ignoring the fact that Heroes don't perceive Beasts as humans, but as monsters masquerading in flesh

... Isn't that perception completely accurate?

# ¿ Jun 29, 2015 20:48

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 19:24

Zereth: Jul 9, 2003

SunAndSpring posted:

IIRC most of the scenarios in the Seattle setting book for Demon have you getting one hell of a bargaining chip over the God-Machine. My favorite was the one where you break into a vault filled with countless alternate timelines where Earth would've died off (nuclear war, meteor strikes, some dumbass installs the air scrubbers to a germ warfare labs incorrectly) contained in little bubbles, and if you break them they release whatever they had in them. So you can get into a big pissing match with the G-M, who would rather not have to rebuild a lot of its infrastructure because that's just a pain in the rear end even if it could probably do it, and maybe get a truce out of it if you agree to disarm yourself.

This of course assumes that the God Machine is capable of being direct enough to negotiate with people, and for that matter that it actually has motivations as we understand them. Or at all. Which does not seem like a safe assumption to make to me.

# ¿ Sep 1, 2015 10:12

Zereth: Jul 9, 2003

zeal posted:

What? What the hell is the point of playing a dragon if you don't play a dragon at some point?

Yeah, I feel like the game really should have approached not from the "you're a human with a special soul" angle, but from the "You are not, and never have been, a human, you're a loving dragon and you're just wearing a thin human mask because you don't want to get shot out of the sky by fighter jets" angle.

Daeren posted:

Exactly. A demon that actually, unwittingly reacts exactly the way it's thinking at all times is a pathological demon. Every little tic, every reaction, every outward emotion is a deliberate choice. Some demons suck at this, and thus come off as monotone Matrix-style Agents even if they're a storm of internal emotion. Other demons are fantastic at perfectly mirroring human reactions, and may even make a deliberate effort to be genuine with their reactions, but that makes it all the creepier when they can just stop and snap to a completely different demeanor in a heartbeat. Demons approximate humanity, they were human enough to Fall, but they are decidedly not human. When it comes down to it, all demons have a perfect level of sociopathic detachment from their projected emotions, even though they have genuine ones.

Imagine interrogating a husband who's a complete emotional trainwreck over the death of his wife, big wet tears and genuine offense and fear at the slightest hint of suspicion, then you show him a picture of him at a crime scene. His posture hardens, the tears stop instantly, his face goes slack, his eyes grow cold, and he starts lying so convincingly that he makes you doubt your own evidence for a second, and can only conclude he truly believes his own web of lies.

That's a demon backed into a corner. When the act stops working, they'll stop acting.

Don't forget that Demons don't have a morality meter. They have a "how well are you playing the role of the human life you're wearing" meter.

# ¿ Nov 13, 2015 04:08

Zereth: Jul 9, 2003

Kurieg posted:

Beast still has hilariously tone-deaf stereotype quotes, and I love the ones for Prometheans and Demons. The Promethean ones are all basically "Come on, be a monster, it's fun!" and one of the Demon ones is "I wonder what will happen when I strip away your disguise" which would probably result in a dead beast and a very very angry Demon.

The Demon one could actually be pretty clever if it was in something more self-aware. Indicating that the Beasts very much do not understand Demons.

# ¿ Feb 10, 2016 06:23

Zereth: Jul 9, 2003

Doodmons posted:

I might as well quote the rulebook here:

It looks like it leaves you enough wiggle room to attempt to pass yourself off as a vampire and certainly there are Embeds and Exploits that do that. All the pactee's vampire friends and associates don't forget him or anything, either. I certainly don't get the impression that it's going to be easy to pass yourself off as one even if you do have all the requisite powers - knowledge of how vampire society works just doesn't transfer over in the pact.

Doesn't taking over somebody's life not actually get you their specific knowledge? Like you'll know how to operate the fry cooker at their burger flipping job but you won't actually know their in-jokes with their co-workers or anything.

# ¿ Feb 11, 2016 04:52

Zereth: Jul 9, 2003

GimpInBlack posted:

Soul-pacting doesn't get you anything except their identity as a Cover. Demons need to do a lot of research if they want to keep their new pacts from eroding. Fortunately, menial, sub-Skill-dot level stuff like how to operate the fry cooker, daily schedule, names of friends and family, etc. is pretty easy with a couple days' observation thanks to demons' Eidetic Memory, and Legend can cover the bigger stuff for a while, but if you soul-pact a brilliant neurosurgeon and you have no Medicine dots, you might want to engineer an excuse for retirement ASAP.

I must have been confusing Covers with something similar from another game then. :shrug:

# ¿ Feb 11, 2016 23:09

Zereth: Jul 9, 2003

Kai Tave posted:

I mean I'll agree that the attempt to connect things probably shouldn't have been made in the first place if only because it undoubtedly led to that awful "The scientists have lied to you!" introduction to Exalted 1E.

I recall Exalted 1e claiming a single mote had more power than an atom bomb.

Which meant charms and such were INCREDIBLY inefficient given what one mote actually did.

# ¿ Feb 16, 2016 10:22

Zereth: Jul 9, 2003

Kai Tave posted:

That's a nice gameline you have there, a real beaut...it'd sure be a shame if something happened to it.

# ¿ Feb 17, 2016 08:21

Zereth: Jul 9, 2003

Punting posted:

Kars or Wamuu?

They're named after bands, call them Cars and Wham drat you :orks:

# ¿ Feb 23, 2016 14:17

Zereth: Jul 9, 2003

Rohan Kishibe posted:

I refuse.

# ¿ Feb 23, 2016 14:21

Zereth: Jul 9, 2003

nopantsjack posted:

I do remember the 20th anniversairy edition telling me they all had to be fledglings so thats a good change in requiem.
That old book also explicitly forbade multiclassing and I remember had some section about if someone tries to roll up a Blade style half vampire or a badass Ventrue-Gangrel or something you had to pretend everything was cool then when the game begins take away all their powers and castigate them personally.

e: Nerd games hate race mixing for some reason.

20th anniversary edition is a Vampire: the Masquerade. The Blood Potency thing is from Vampire: the Requiem. They're different games, in different settings.

# ¿ Feb 23, 2016 20:21

Zereth: Jul 9, 2003

Daeren posted:

For real, go read those links. Or click the ? under my name and read the first page or so of my post history in the thread.

It should be noted that most of this is from its first reveal, and they walked back quite a bit of stuff after public reaction was...conflicted, let's say. The final product still has some gross stuff in it, but not the level it was when we were talking about it.

Didn't they rather inconsistently walk things back and there's a couple of things that only really make sense if you know what the initial reveal was like?

# ¿ Feb 25, 2016 07:33

Zereth: Jul 9, 2003

unseenlibrarian posted:

Yeah, but he also referenced Varney, which, for example, was supposedly set in the 1700s but continually referenced contemporary-to-the time-it-was-written-events instead, literally ripped off the plot of Frankenstein at one point for several chapters in a row because 'hey, this galvanic science stuff is popular', gave multiple origin stories and changed up the motives for the title character repeatedly... It may have referenced real places, but only because it couldn't decide where any of the stuff going on was happening, since sometimes the same setpiece location might be located in relation to a different city.

We're not talking a masterwork of verisimilitude here.

Seems like a suitable analogue for the oWoD as a whole to me :v:

# ¿ Feb 29, 2016 19:57

Zereth: Jul 9, 2003

Simian_Prime posted:

I'm mostly going by the FATAL and Friends review. The main problem seems to be that they got Phil Brucato to write it, and it mostly comes off as "Phil Brucato wants to make an Invisibles RPG without paying Grant Morrison royalties."

I'm pretty sure a "Let's polish up and re-release old material for nostalgia/anniversary reasons" is not the time to be introducing entirely new factions and changing poo poo up so chaos magick, yoga, and hypertech show up on every magical group's foci list.

# ¿ Mar 27, 2016 05:17

Zereth: Jul 9, 2003

Demon is a game where instead of having arcane vocabulary to sound more weird and exotic, they use spy jargon which is designed to sound as unremarkable as possible and I love it for that.

# ¿ Mar 31, 2016 03:03

Zereth: Jul 9, 2003

If the God-machine was monolithic and invulnerable Demons wouldn't exist in the first place.

# ¿ Apr 5, 2016 09:38

Zereth: Jul 9, 2003

Dave Brookshaw posted:

So - your soul has been replaced by a nightmare-monster that demands you humble the arrogant by making them feel weak. If you don't, it'll invade people's dreams and potentially create a super-powered assassin who'll try to hunt you as an after-effect. What do you do?.

Nothing because I'm dead and gone and something else is wearing my body now?

# ¿ Apr 28, 2016 18:47

Zereth: Jul 9, 2003

Xiahou Dun posted:

I mean that's what mages say, but they're the ones reworking reality to their whim in a bid for ever more power so I never took them saying it very seriously.

In my games at least it's pretty much always good intentions ---> mild amounts of progress ----> hubris, bitches o gently caress everything is terrible.

But maybe I suck and am dumb.

Shee-it I haven't played Mage in forever. I need to run some Mage.

This doesn't strike me as anything particularly unique to Mages compared to humans in general, though.

Basic Chunnel posted:

Idk how it necessarily compares with the other lines in terms of "net good" but the extent of Demon's existential horror seems to stem from the possibility that all the hosed up poo poo that the God Machine does is (literally) necessary evil. Sure, there are pacts and cover and all the things that mess up human bystanders but none of it realy compares to the things that the GM is doing all the time everywhere.

I guess in retrospect it's all a clever literalization of the esoteric question of theodicy.

Aren't Demons second place behind Mages in the "Can just loving go chill out somewhere and at least not make things worse" sweepstakes? They'll need to maintain their Cover but if it's good enough they can just relax and enjoy feeding pigeons in the park or whatever.

# ¿ Apr 29, 2016 06:05

Zereth: Jul 9, 2003

Dave Brookshaw posted:

Nah, everyone knows it's the Banishers.

Well, the thirteen people who read Banishers do, anyway.

What is a Banisher? I don't think Mors has defined that yet.

# ¿ May 6, 2016 00:57

Zereth: Jul 9, 2003

Terrorforge posted:

So what I'm getting from this is that as long as the linchpin is in place, the Infrastructure continues to produce Aether? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Either way, how much of the Infrastructure needs to remain intact? Assuming you need the original linchpin you obviously can't just take one of the tires off the car and reap the harvest, but could you perhaps take out the entire engine block and just leave that chugging away in a locked garage somewhere? Presumably it wouldn't generate as much aether, but in cases where the Infrastructure is something like an entire skyscraper it might be worth the effort to cut out and cart off the bleeding server rack in the ninth floor closet.

As far as I can tell, this is not something you can generalize. It will heavily depend on the exact piece of Infrastructure you're looking at, and even Demons will have a hard time figuring out the answers to these questions without taking it apart until it stops working, at which point they probably can't put it back together.

# ¿ May 16, 2016 18:24

Zereth: Jul 9, 2003

bewilderment posted:

I feel like I've missed an old argument here. What's wrong with it being a 'sin'? It's literally taking out a piece of your soul, making it so that you can never reach maximum enlightenment, in order to have power right now.

The current F&F review of 2e implied that you could later break your soulstone and re-absorb the part of your soul to remove the cap on Gnosis? Was I reading that wrong or something?

# ¿ May 17, 2016 23:56

Zereth: Jul 9, 2003

Speaking of Hubris and Wisdom, does the book explicitly go into the implications of all mages no longer having Integrity and getting it replaced with Wisdom?

# ¿ May 18, 2016 03:01

Zereth: Jul 9, 2003

Covok posted:

Basically, due to poor writing, it ends up being a game where you abuse people to teach them a lesson. It has a lot of real life allegories since it was originally meant as "Minority Revenge Fantasty: The "Not-Getting-It" and ends up unintentionally justifying real life oppression since it portrays minority groups as unrepentant beasts.

Don't forget using almost exactly the same justifications some real-world abusers use to say why Beasts doing the things they do is totally okay.

# ¿ May 19, 2016 04:29

Zereth: Jul 9, 2003

FrostyPox posted:

Also, heroes have super-low morality and are terrible people.

Actually Morality doesn't exist anymore, it's Integrity now.

# ¿ May 30, 2016 05:08

Zereth: Jul 9, 2003

bewilderment posted:

The official Mage point of view is that the Lie is the force that stops most people remembering about it or talking about the supernatural, but naturally this is only true in a Mage game, or a game using Mage-dominant cosmology.

Isn't this mechanically only true for Supernal-related stuff? Everything else is on its own for hiding itself.

# ¿ Jun 1, 2016 07:04

Zereth: Jul 9, 2003

Mors Rattus posted:

The other thing about the CofD world is that in many ways, the Masquerade/whatever...uh, isn't upheld. People experience weird poo poo and learn to ignore it. They pretend it doesn't happen, or they become hunters. But there's a consistent tone, at least in the mortals and hunter books, that the average person is willfully ignorant, rather than deceived or actually ignorant. It's a thing that exists, and you know it exists, but you pretend it doesn't so you can pretend that your world makes sense.

Plus you've probably got at least three credible stories from your extended friend network of people who didn't carefully ignore the weird-rear end poo poo and then turned up dead or were never heard from again or something.

# ¿ Jun 1, 2016 22:25

Zereth: Jul 9, 2003

Yawgmoth posted:

How many dots is it to get a wizard painted on the side?

It's actually a Flaw to NOT have a wizard, bikini viking babe, dragon, or similar painted on the side.

# ¿ Aug 7, 2016 06:31

Zereth: Jul 9, 2003

blastron posted:

I'm not familiar with oWoD mythology, but since CofD Mage is one of my favorite gamelines: are there any Mages that could stay awake for that kind of endgame? In CofD, Acanthus mages are linked closely to Arcadia, so maybe a Fate Shielding (or a reflexive Unraveling?) effect might be able to do it? Sleep is also generally the domain of Mind, so maybe a competent Mastigos would have some sort of defense. No idea how this translates to oWoD though. I just want to believe that my favorite gameline is able to do something about some of these apocalypse scenarios.

It pretty much straight up doesn't. oWoD Mages and CofD Mages bear very little resemblance to each other beyond "wizards in the modern day with broad powers".

# ¿ Aug 30, 2016 10:05

Zereth: Jul 9, 2003

Mors Rattus posted:

The video ends with Swedracula just kind of standing there ofr a full minute, staring off to the side or making faces at the camera.

This is an incredible trainwreck, isn't it.

# ¿ Sep 29, 2016 03:30

Zereth: Jul 9, 2003

Loomer posted:

There needs to be another, even worse, panel for that webcomic with the dog on fire. It no longer reflects this situation.

I dunno it seems fine to me.

# ¿ Sep 30, 2016 19:58

Zereth: Jul 9, 2003

Empress Theonora posted:

Oh well, at least there's still OPP...?

Have you heard about Beast?

# ¿ Oct 1, 2016 03:28

Zereth: Jul 9, 2003

Axelgear posted:

Something else that distinguishes vampires from Beasts is that vampires don't have to be monstrous sadists enacting torture porn to feed. Vampire feeding is still a violent assault but there is quite a difference between giving your one-night-stand or even willing blood doll a case of mild anemia and going out of your way to inflict as much pain, misery, and horror upon someone to get your kicks.

Beast doesn't just have you be a predatory monster; it makes you be a sadist, which is so very, very much worse.

Do you have to drink directly from the victim in CofD Vampire, or could you just get a blood donor kit, give your "donor" a cookie and some orange juice and a bandage and send them on their way, and then have your meal?

# ¿ Nov 2, 2016 04:17

Zereth: Jul 9, 2003

Loomer posted:

Others strain credulity, or are quite literally apocalyptic in their ramification in a way that isn't addressed in the text.

Please explain all of these and why they're apocalyptic when you make that effortpost you mentioned. :allears:

# ¿ Nov 17, 2016 10:04

Zereth: Jul 9, 2003

Loomer posted:

But strangely, the highest ratio is not San Francisco, the glamour-vortex and attention hog. So far, it's Richmond California. Just outside of San Francisco itself, it outstrips that city in proportion by far. There is 1 changeling for every 3,350 normal people in that city.

Changelings can't afford to live in SF, got it.

# ¿ Nov 24, 2016 19:46

Zereth: Jul 9, 2003

Vanguard Warden posted:

So I am almost entirely new to WoD (outside of user-stories I've read on forums and the VtM:B videogame), and I'm looking to run a game of Chronicles of Darkness 2e for a similarly unfamiliar group soon, probably VtR 2e. Does anyone have any specific advice for STing nWoD2e outside of the usual advice for GMing any game?

The piece of advice I have is to keep in mind that Vampire: the Masquerade: Bloodlines isn't really related to Vampire: the Requiem. Different settings and vampires work differently. (Not that Bloodlines was super close to how vampires worked in the P&P game, for that matter.)

# ¿ Dec 11, 2016 04:54

Zereth: Jul 9, 2003

I'm fond of the I think it's an Exploit that lets you just suddenly have never been there when things are going bad. I think it'd work particularly well if the entire party had it.

# ¿ Dec 14, 2016 05:37

Zereth: Jul 9, 2003

Night10194 posted:

I dunno, I feel like their writing style is almost better suited to making World actually work.

Kind of like how they wrote KOTOR 2 by hating Star Wars as much as possible.

Do you really think somebody who bought WoD because they're super into it would let Obsidian do that?

# ¿ Dec 25, 2016 15:50

Zereth: Jul 9, 2003

Kavak posted:

I googled for Protagonist-Centered Morality, but the enemy found it first:

The moral of the story is: don't go to tv tropes

# ¿ Jan 22, 2017 07:31

Zereth: Jul 9, 2003

Archonex posted:

The idea that heroes are rape survivor analogues and beast's are Gamergate analogues puts the fiction piece in the preview where a hero jumps the beast and tries to carve him up in a new light.

He's ranting about killing the Beast as being his claim to fame while the Beast is begging him to just calm down and be reasonable about the horrible people murdering monster existing and to think of someone other than himself. Now that i've heard that take on it it really reads as a hosed up take on the whole bullshit "blame the victim" poo poo some people do where they claim that ____ person is only accusing someone of rape to get their fifteen minutes of fame.

Assuming that metaphor is intended then that...Uh, kind of puts a really dark and hosed up tint on the chapter fiction, actually. Heroes basically got mind-raped into being what they are because the Beast hosed up. Which puts the blame pretty firmly at the Beast's feet. That's not dark in the good sort of way that VTR or other games with dark themes have. That's dark in a way that's more like "What the gently caress is wrong with the author of this. He's some sort of sick bastard that wrote in victim blaming as part of the chapter fiction.".

The intended metaphor is that Beasts are oppressed minorities and Heroes are Gamergate Etc.

The execution does not support this at all.

# ¿ Jan 22, 2017 10:18

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 19:24

Zereth: Jul 9, 2003

Mors Rattus posted:

Beast wants its justifications to actually be correct, and wants you to agree with it. And that is repugnant.

And it helpfully provides, last I remember, no actual evidence that the justifications are correct. Just insists they are.

# ¿ Jan 26, 2017 21:07

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > World of Darkness Megathread: Curse of the Were-Poster

«‹›5 »