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Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

恐竜戦隊
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Why is this being discussed as if it was mutually exclusive? Grab stasis if it pops up, use the soldier, try not to get him injured so he keeps training the combo. Related, does anyone know how the training discount works for lowering time on higher lvl skills?

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Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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I think I've done gatecrasher 3 times now on commander, each time flawless. There's no timer, slow down and take your loving time jesus.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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Backhand posted:

I know I'm just bitching, but I just clustered all my guys together and died to a grenade.

I want to pull out my TFTD printed fluff 'Field Manual' where Jake Gaston (?) gives the rookie commander tips, such as staggering your guys not to all die to a grenade.

Honestly, I miss get grenade-d more frequently.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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ジュウレンジャー
Kill dudes. Team calms down.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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ジュウレンジャー

Andre Banzai posted:

Alright, I'm in the final missions of my Ironman Commander campaign now (gotta do the swamp of terrors and have a UFO tracking me down but have all of the other story points done and waiting in the shadow chamber).

I feel comfortable to say now that the game is pretty weirdly unbalanced. I went with a very dumb, very "brute force" strategy for the whole game and now I am pretty much untouchable. Basically I did close to ZERO elerium core Shen projects (did a bit of ammo) that were not EXO or WAR Suits. I have now FIVE WAR Suits and if I recall correctly 3 or 4 EXO Suits (not that I need them anymore). Those Suits are CHEAP to make and missiles are overpowered to the point of breaking the game IMHO. Almost every pod is a matter of activating (sniper or holo-targeting), when they scatter I destroy their cover with grenades or missiles, proceed to wipe them. Also, blowing aliens off rooftops with missiles are one of the finest pleasures in life. Now that I have a Psi-Op it's even more ridiculous: if a pod boss is left standing, Stasis him. Add to that 3 Mimic Beacons and you're pretty much invincible, unless you really screw your tactics up.

That is a very brutish strategy and I'm surprised it works so well in the middle-late game. The game tries to compensate by throwing strong enemies at me, but it's a matter of who runs out of resources first, and usually when the mission is over and the battlefield is scorched earth, I still have a few bombs and missiles left. Instead of increasing strategic complexity and forcing you to minimize risks and gamble a bit, the game increasingly becomes a matter of not letting the aliens even have their turn because they will punish you hard if they do.
...

You seem to be complaining about what anyone else would tout as a great feature of balance: You've build a party to to your personal preference, seemingly "suboptimal", but it's actually holding its own, and you're having a great time blowing poo poo up. This is good! Imagine if the game was the opposite: you must field a balanced team, typically a minimum of one of each profession, otherwise certain 'gotcha' monsters/mechanics will ruin you.

For your ultimate demoman party, you're giving up Rangers (if not the scouting, then then guaranteed 20+ dmg flanks), Snipers, PSI troops (!!) etc. The opportunity costs are real.

Oh, and if you're still using 'missiles', may I suggest in some elerium core Power weapons? You might be pleasantly surprised :)

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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ジュウレンジャー

NTT posted:

Real talk I put in that mod that makes rulers into a normal unit, but still drops epic loot.

This is basically how I see most mods tbqh.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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ジュウレンジャー

Lurdiak posted:

I cleared the game on rookie, I'm debating if I should turn on some mods for my Veteran run, or if I should master the base game some more before screwing with it. Making rulers less bullshit is probably the most appealing one...

Go play on commander with no mods, it's a different game entirely. Maybe the reason you want mods because so much of the game was so easy as to make things into a grind. Maybe even Commander/Ironman, to actually learn how to play the game and accept casualties.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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ジュウレンジャー

RBA Starblade posted:

e: I really hate the network tower mission if you're trying to sneak it because the game didn't feel like giving you useful bonuses. Is there an andromedon standing on it when you're sneaking in? Did it see you through three walls, alerting the eight andromedons and archons behind you? Did it position every enemy so that they encircle you at once? Did your grapple bug out and put you on the lowest level instead of the higher tile three loads in a row? Too bad, campaign over! Even worse, I get my ranger there anyway, and she's not allowed to hack the thing on a double move, but she is allowed to on an Implacable move, even though that always overrode everything else, even if she still had kills to make (I threw an axe at a sectoid). I just reloaded until I got through.

As it's been mentioned before, the game is explicitly designed around concealment being an ambush mechanic, and NOT a 'ghosting' or 'solid snake' style of gameplay. Mechanically, this is implemented with unalerted, patrolling pods walking into a path between you and the objective. As everyone's found out, trying to stealth past squads ends up with you getting surrounded by the entirety of the hostile forces as they idly keep walking closer...

So don't do it. Ambush the first squad you see, and move on.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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ジュウレンジャー

Backhand posted:

Truly blasphemous.

But yeah, the Monster Hunter vibes feel really, really out of place with the rest of the game's aesthetics. Particularly the armorcrafting 'wearing the skin of your dead enemy' bit. That poo poo's just silly, and not in the fun way.

That raises an old gruff of mine: XCOM2 feels a lot less like XCOM than EU/EW, and one thing that bothered me about them both is the over-emphasis on 100% shots. 80% is drat good odds when you can just take a 2nd shot, but upping things to discrete actions turns the game more into a puzzle than a tac-sim, imo

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

恐竜戦隊
ジュウレンジャー
Vanilla, it causes the least bugs.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

恐竜戦隊
ジュウレンジャー

RiotGearEpsilon posted:

This episode and the one after. You can watch the death spiral begin.

I watched the first video halfway through, and to be quite honest he deserved whatever wipes he gets if he's playing like that on Ironman. A pod activates and scurries out of LoS, so his solution to that is to advance and overwatch?! Why the hell would you not just take a step back and catch them in overwatch traps? Unsurprisingly, he gets flanked and the dude panics. And then, I'm assuming he's played this before and it's not his first time, so he KNOWS there's infinite reinforcements once you repeatedly wipe the last pod, but he constantly sends in a melee ranger with less than 100% to pod-wipe with 3 guys. All the while commenting "this is eventually going to miss and it will suck". No poo poo. The fourth guy? Is meanwhile walking back to pick up a cadaver over half the map away, I stopped the video when he took his 4th sprint-move away from the LZ and still hadn't found him. That's like... ten turns to walk back, pod wiping every other turn five times in a row (with three men!)? I wasn't going to wait until he whiffs. Muppet.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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ジュウレンジャー

SweetBro posted:

You know. gently caress the cheating AI in this garbage game. Just lost my Ironman A-squad because I forgot that all enemy squads will zoom in on your position if you get close enough to the objective, regardless of whether or not you've broken stealth, and ended up getting ambushed by 5 packs.

That's not exactly right, but close enough. Explicitly, the AI draws a strait line between the median of your squad and the objective. They will then attempt to patrol across this line, like notches on a single-beam ladder. So, by getting close to the objective with concealment on, the pods will have to choice but to converge on the tiny area you've given them left on the map.

Other than being totally unstated on how the AI works (which is fine, yes?), this is a good mechanic. It explicitly forces the AI to not be stuck afk in a corner of the map to be hunted down, but rather plant themselves between you and the objective, effectively committing suicide by forcing you to ambush them. Win-win.

This isn't metal gear solid, use concealment to ambush a pod and then move on.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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ジュウレンジャー

SweetBro posted:

No it's not. If the purpose of it to avoid wasting time hunting the AI down then it should only affect units that have left concealment (which would actually loving make sense).

Thats not its only purpose? Timers where added to stop overwatch crawl. Concealment was added to help in bum-rushing objectives without triggering pods on your turn (and ambushes are cool). Pod patrol paths where added so you could have non-static pods that where always 'in the way' so you could ambush them. Not having to hunt down the AI is just icing. We just went over this

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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ジュウレンジャー

NAT-T Ice posted:

I miss the one Sectoid that would hide in a trailer indefinitely though.

I don't miss having to hunt that one loving Tasoth down who's hiding in a one-tile closet god-knows-where upon this cruise liner. I have NEVER seen the bottom half of cruise liner terror missions for that very reason, I usually just reloaded for a cargo ship.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

恐竜戦隊
ジュウレンジャー

quote:

Also, you don't actually have to kill everyone in VIP missions.
Lies.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

恐竜戦隊
ジュウレンジャー
I've never played on 'Veteran', but typical commander/ironman tactics for terror missions go as follows:

Throw a battle scanner towards the centre of the map, then start moving that way. A scout with conceal could substitute, poorly.
Pop 1st pod, quick-wiping is less necessary than usual, but feel free to spam grenades. Just so you don't linger.
Don't grab civvies which are 100% safe. You probably haven't scanned them and they might be faceless. Civvies getting shot by activated pods are eating shots for you, be grateful.
The AI will have unactivated pods murder a civvie at 1 per turn. Count your saved and safe/visible civvies, subtract 1 for a faceless, and you should be able to tell how fast you need to be moving.
I typically win by activating all but one pod near the middle of the map, then sidetrack for all the civvies (since your squad can take a faceless 4v1 if one now pops). After saving 6, take your time, the pods/faceless will come to you.

Generally I think commander has 13 civvies, 6 need to be saved. So you have a 7 turn clock to activate all pods, which is usually plenty since they light themselves up in fog.

So yes, you're probably being too cautious, bring battle scanners on terror missions and take more initiate to getting into the middle of the map.


vvvEdit: clarification, I don't claim most civvies, but rather do a 'head count' of ones I consider behind my lines, so I know how many I've effectively saved without actually wasting time playing tag. Hence how a faceless sometimes slips in.

Serephina fucked around with this message at 12:20 on Jan 9, 2017

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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ジュウレンジャー

Furism posted:

Thanks for the tips on Commander difficulty Retaliation missions. I'll try to be less cautious.

There's a difference between cautious and slow. Phantom, scanners, etc so you're not running face first into trouble. Just don't overwatch crawl, dat iz slow.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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ジュウレンジャー
Maybe its the old grognard in me, but I'm possibly the only guy who likes more RNG in my XCOM (but will never, ever play that LongWar hot mess). I seriously think that both XCOM reboots over-stress the importance of 100% actions, probably just by including the possibility of 100% actions being a thing in the first place. EG, in Xcom 2012, rockets had a 80% hit rate - and they where fine! But with things like flanking shotguns, explosives, super-accurate colonels, etc, the new XCOM games play much more discretely, which imo is a shame. Taking 80% shots should be the default action, rather than the result of loving up.

Maybe I should go reinstall TFTD and enjoy the buttrape, hrm.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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ジュウレンジャー

Kwyndig posted:

Lightning reflexes actually still exists as a bonus perk your dudes can roll from the AWC.
[...]
Yeah, the upgrade warnings are just there to let you know that you can't swap out an upgrade and keep the old one. (Although there is a continent bonus for that)


Jesus Man I've been playing this game for ages and I've yet to see this content, I feel like I've been gyped!

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

恐竜戦隊
ジュウレンジャー
Accept your losses. Don't worry about the Avatar meter, it'll be fiiine. Also, rush guns and/or armour, never sell ANYTHING to the black market until spoilered, carry flashbangs early, grenadiers are an amazing early crutch, for facilities get a fast AWC to heal guys and GTS to buy more grenadiers and squad sizes.
Do not gently caress around with lancers, flashbang them immediately. Accept your losses when you find out what a faceless is. I did, and I laughed. If you can make it into midgame with some veteran troops, good for you, you just beat the difficulty hump.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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ジュウレンジャー
Very stable for me, apart from gameplay and cosmestic bugs, of which there are a half dozen per mission. When playing Ironman, just suck it up and backup the save after every session. Nobody's gonna be calling you out on it.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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ジュウレンジャー
Someone mentioned that it's a bug with times zones iirc? As in, it swaps between UTC and your computer's local zone (or visa versa) upon takeoff and reverts on landing.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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ジュウレンジャー
After watching that yes he does have retarded fake accents that fade in and out, but my takeaway is that 'experienced' players still don't know vanilla gameplay poo poo like how bladestorm works. "The sectoid ran away from me and I didn't slice?!"

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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ジュウレンジャー

Tendales posted:

A lot of poo poo isn't documented because the mod is still in development, it's not nearly a finished product.

Really? It's version is post-1.0, there's no mention of 'open beta' or the like anywhere, and it's own website claims it to be "Status: Released". That's pretty explicit. If this was a commercial product (say, XCOM....) you'd expect fully realized mechanics, tutorials and/or manuals, etc. But there are experienced players from the base game (and first LW variant!) hopping in and being totally loving clueless on how anything works. It might not be 'finished' in that there will be continued development and support, but it would have been nice if it was 'complete'.

But let's be fair, this isn't a paid-for product, it's a mod! It's not as if anyone was paying these guys to release LW2...

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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ジュウレンジャー

xxEightxx posted:

On my first vanilla xcom2 play through, am a xcom vet so it's going relatively well, except in the month I just finished the avatar meter jumped from 2 pips to seven or 8, did I miss something big, or is it just :xcom:

Yea the advent meter spikes up to near-max almost instantly, don't worry. Completing story objectives will lower it, as will exploring into the areas where facilities are located then blowing them up. These actions are also known as 'playing the game'. It's all for the better though, it really drives home the sense of urgency they where going for.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

恐竜戦隊
ジュウレンジャー
My first playthrough was just after release, and yes swords where worthless then. More recently I replayed it with an attempt to use classes/kills I didn't beforehand, with the result that I forced myself to use a sword ranger every mission. (Both where Commander/Ironman)

Sword rangers can do things that shottymans can't; namely run&gun every turn, get rapid fire much much earlier, and have have spammable grenade-AoE. BladeStorm really is the pinnacle of the hero, and aggressive positioning will get you many free attacks as the AI wigs out and tries to run past you. The downside of course is that you need to be veeery careful and/or good&familiar enough at the game to make sure that you're not overextending, and at that point you could be pulling off coupe de graces with squaddies, so who cares about optimal builds. Personally, if Reaper was reworked to be more universally applicable and less of a POS I think swordsmen would be in a much better case. But currently it's only one skill to define the entire playstyle, while shottymen get so much more.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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ジュウレンジャー
With the killzone ranger, your best use of it would be to give him a rifle instead of shotty, and turn him into a scout or swordsman. Gives him pretty good ambush use etc. Or just ignore the AWC perk, some of them are real lemons.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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Leyburn posted:

lol critted by an on-fire, disoriented viper while on higher ground than him

I'm not sure I'm cut out for ironman.

Are you playing vanilla unmodded? Lowering a aliens aim actually has the artifact of making them almost certainly crit when they do land a hit. Look it up, and cry a bit. I'm actually using the EU/EW aim rolls mod just to remove that bullshit. It's slightly player-favoring, since the AI is far more likely to take a 25% shot, but even during my first playthrough I noticed I could abuse that 'feature'; shotgunning ppl from long range will either miss, or crit for 18 dmg. loving Hell, Jake!

^^^^edit: The EW final mission is actually totally fine, it's a slightly longer mission with a harder dude at the end. Your A-team should roll it.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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I think EW gave a defensive bonus, high ground back then was pretty swole. In XCOM2 high ground is less strong; you still get the aim bonus, but will almost never be under high cover as a tradeoff

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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ジュウレンジャー
I've always wondered; How do ayys respond to a codex's vortex disarm? Do they all actually have a never-used reload animation?

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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ジュウレンジャー
I see what you're saying there, and yes unupgraded workshops provide a small benefit for a real supplies/opportunity cost, but I have never, ever, run into power problems. I usually run off a single (iirc) power plant until I'm at the literal bottom row. But anyone building workshops usually wants them fully staffed asap, and getting 2 'free' engineers is usually worth the engineer that has to go into the power plant, which in turns spits out net positive power. The bottom line is that you're spending supplies for extra engineers, which most people are ecstatic to do barring unusual early mission rewards. Laboratories being trash despite using the exact same mechanic of spending stuff for more dudes can be highlighted to show how useful early engis are over almost anything else.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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ジュウレンジャー

Furism posted:

Vanilla question: I have this bug where the fog of war around my Ranger Scout isn't working properly. It's like he's not there at all, I just see the usual dark fog (he will still trigger pod reveals though). Is there a way to fix this?

E: It looks like this:



I've never had that bug, but it looks like you've got a few mods installed. Usual culprit if save&reload won't fix it.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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ジュウレンジャー

Apoplexy posted:

Oh! Thanks for the correction, I probably should've known I only had part of the story.

On another note, though, Robojumper made something that's just comically awesome: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=926686462 A mod which turns some of the idling animations into units going into suppressing fire animations against targets of opportunity. It looks amazing in action.

gently caress YES. I'm always a huge fan for how much using suppressing fire livens up the battlefield, not sure if this mod is overkill but it's totally going in to my next game

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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ジュウレンジャー
My first faceless was unspoiled, and on Commander. I just did a huge belly laugh when I saw him morph and accepted the XCOM moment, it's fine. You're allowed to fail the mission objective now and then, you know.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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ジュウレンジャー
Nope!

Closest thing is the default "Stop wasting my time" Mod, which actually gives a lot of people including myself a huge (50%) fps boost for the avenger bits for some arcane reason.

But yea, game runs like trash, especially when you go back and play the first which looks 70% as good and runs on a wooden PC.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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ジュウレンジャー

Bolow posted:

He only spawns during cruise ship terror missions and never actually moves until you find him hiding in a closet on the 2nd floor

*small eye twitch starts to form*

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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ジュウレンジャー

Cythereal posted:

I figured gatekeepers to be an evolution of the cyberdisk, considering Vahlen in EU/W speculates that the cyberdisk might be a silicon-based lifeform rather than a machine as initially thought. The ethereals' chatter in Avenger also suggests that cyberdisks are indeed living creatures.

The gatekeepers have nothing to do with cyberdisks other than being flying metal that can change shape. One's a big blob of psychic brain piloting a tank, the other explicitly is a robot/machine, as per Vahlen's silicon comment. Fluff-wise, cyberdisks are infinitely cooler!

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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ジュウレンジャー
Not quite? All the ADVENT you fight are test tube human-lookalikes spawned from a factory, presumably with bits of human DNA as you said. All the actual aliens are totally, err, alien.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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ジュウレンジャー

Internet Kraken posted:

I'm less interested in PP after watching Beaglerush play the demo. It seems to be more in the style of Xcom:EU rather than UFO Defense. I really wanted to see how Gollop would bring his rookie meatgrinder game into the modern age, but instead he seems to be going Jake's route of having smaller squads of actually significant soldiers.

I mean I'm not gonna complain about another good Xcom:EU style game but I was interested in seeing a really different take on the original.

Rookie meatgrinders where absolutely an emergent gameplay aspect of the originals, it seemed much more implied that you should care about your squad of supermen. I played TFTD as a teenager, developed my own preconceptions, and so the internet meme of sending rookies to their deaths galls me. It's still a fab game, and I like TFTD, XCOM1, and XCOM2 all for different reasons. I'd never touch long war tho holy poo poo it's like the worst of all worlds =[

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Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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ジュウレンジャー

AceOfFlames posted:

I started another EW game on Normal this time, was utterly cautious always remaining in full cover and I still got a sniper headshotted from across the map.

Vib Rib posted:

Just to add, I see lots of posters on multiple sites as well as various LPers add the qualifier "from across the map" but (especially in EU) most weapons don't have a range falloff other than their max. So not counting the close range bonus, a shot from a moderate distance and a shot from an extreme distance have the same chance to hit.

How exactly is the AI even placing shots 'from across the map' in the first place? Barring an exalt sniper, they're not actually allowed to place a shot beyond the shooter's normal LOS limits. Rifles have minor accuracy falloff for shooting at edge of LoS, but that's hardly something I'd trust to keep my men alive...

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