USPOL June 2016: Oh say can you Arzy?

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > USPOL June 2016: Oh say can you Arzy?

DACK FAYDEN: Feb 25, 2013; Bear Witness

Zeroisanumber posted:

I wonder how many prominent historical figures were tortured to death by well-meaning idiots in their final hours?

There's that story about President Garfield and Alexander Graham Bell, does that count?

(Metal bullet inside him, metal detector to find it, but the bed had metal springs and nobody in the room understood both the metal detector and the bed.)

# ¿ Jun 1, 2016 20:10

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# ¿ May 17, 2024 23:28

DACK FAYDEN: Feb 25, 2013; Bear Witness

Dead Reckoning posted:

Man, that raises some awkward questions about the way D&D talks about gun owners.

The Huey P. Newton Gun Club was great, and I'm sure we'll all agree, so what's the problem?

# ¿ Jun 2, 2016 18:34

DACK FAYDEN: Feb 25, 2013; Bear Witness

MariusLecter posted:

I prefer to read it as "[...] [...] [...]"

Much more concise.

My favorite reading is "The [...] people [...] shall [...] be infringed" :tinfoil:

# ¿ Jun 3, 2016 16:58

DACK FAYDEN: Feb 25, 2013; Bear Witness

twistedmentat posted:

This is the best place I can think to ask this, today's "No Hillary" meme seems to be "She'll start another war!". Bernie supporters seem to be saying this recently, but what the hell are they talking about? I could understand why they were starting to say they support Jill Stein, but this whole HILLARY'S WAR! thing is really confusing. I'm afraid to google it to end up Infowars or Natural News.

Last time I asked this the answer that eventually got tracked down is that she supports funding NATO as a line against Russian aggression.

Which, you know. Isn't nearly the same thing.

# ¿ Jun 10, 2016 01:08

DACK FAYDEN: Feb 25, 2013; Bear Witness

Wakko posted:

B-b-b-but we all know democrats don't want to ban guns... they want common sense gun control!

Just gonna interrupt the pearl clutching about how unsafe we all are with some armed minorities since they make both conservatives and bougie liberals uncomfortable:

https://twitter.com/SebastiaNavarra/status/742086951583514628

As a bougie liberal, I am uncomfortable around anyone with a gun, but if white racists get guns you better drat well let everyone else have them too.

# ¿ Jun 13, 2016 19:07

DACK FAYDEN: Feb 25, 2013; Bear Witness

Riosan posted:

It's been so long since I've even heard Johnson's name that I legitimately can't remember if he's the batshit crazy every five minutes Rand Paul kind of libertarian, or if he's the batshit crazy sovereign citizen change-your-last-name-to-Freeman kind.

He's a Republican who doesn't mind legalizing weed. Funnelled three hundred million dollars to a Koch subsidiary straight from state coffers. Mark Ames had this excellent hit piece on him.

# ¿ Jun 16, 2016 18:39

DACK FAYDEN: Feb 25, 2013; Bear Witness

Trump 2016: America is a tune. It must be sung together.

# ¿ Jun 17, 2016 19:00

DACK FAYDEN: Feb 25, 2013; Bear Witness

readingatwork posted:

So apparently the real problem with American politics is that it's too darn democratic:

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/07/how-american-politics-went-insane/485570/

Also that some people who don't know a lot about politics don't like compromise. How dare they!

(There's a kernel of a valid point there, but seriously, this article was trash.)

# ¿ Jun 21, 2016 16:28

DACK FAYDEN: Feb 25, 2013; Bear Witness

Goatman Sacks posted:

She also murdered Vince Foster and is actually in a lesbian relationship with Huma Abedin, a known terrorist supporter.

That reminds me, what's Huma up to these days? She must be busy.

# ¿ Jun 21, 2016 20:35

DACK FAYDEN: Feb 25, 2013; Bear Witness

I don't like no-protest zones anywhere. What's their Constitutional justification? I assume they were run by the SCOTUS at some point. I get that it's only "freedom of assembly in this specific location" rather than any freedom to assemble at all, but still, I'm not a big fan. Even if it opens us up for Westboro Baptist-style abuses to have no fetters on them.

# ¿ Jun 21, 2016 22:00

DACK FAYDEN: Feb 25, 2013; Bear Witness

Rhesus Pieces posted:

They make popcorn, dried fruit, pretzels and cookies too, so I'm assuming it's that.

Too bad this isn't going down in the Senate, they have a fully stocked candy desk.

They actually make some really good spelt pretzels. I was skeptical about the whole "organic" "grain that's technically not related to wheat maaaan" "gluten free" stuff, since I'm the kind of idiot who had never heard of spelt before, but the pretzels are delicious.

# ¿ Jun 22, 2016 21:38

DACK FAYDEN: Feb 25, 2013; Bear Witness

A Winner is Jew posted:

How do they compare to sourdough pretzels, or honey wheat pretzels?

Lighter than sourdough, if that makes sense? I've never tried honey wheat, seems like it'd be a strange mixture of sweet and savory.

# ¿ Jun 22, 2016 21:44

DACK FAYDEN: Feb 25, 2013; Bear Witness

zoux posted:

"My opponent voted against a bill to keep machine guns out of the hands of ISIS" from the left "My opponent voted to expand an unconstitutional watch list to deny 2nd Amendment rights" from the right.

I would actually love to see the latter of those two attacks. Turning the right against the no-fly list would give them an actual political issue I agree with.

# ¿ Jun 23, 2016 18:39

DACK FAYDEN: Feb 25, 2013; Bear Witness

Aerox posted:

After seeing the mass amounts of complaining about how horrible and racist the democrats were for trying to pounce on the gun bill using something the republicans had made a concession on instead of ineffectually introducing The Perfect Bill, I think a lot of Democrats will be reluctant to keep this up. Some people don't have the stomach for political brutality, others like the idea but don't understand the execution.

Republicans can do it because they only care about the outcome. Democrats struggle because, like always, anything that's not perfect is a total capitulation and essentially the same as Actually Being Republican, and politically savaging people usually means you're doing something other than being the Best Progressive. It's pretty clear from this election cycle that being loud and consistently "right" is more important to a lot of people than any sort of compromise or concession, and an environment like that makes it hard to effectively curb stomp your opponents.

I don't agree with your argument because I think what they were doing was actually horrible (gently caress the no fly list, gently caress it forever, it shouldn't exist and we absolutely should not be abrogating literal Constitutional rights, even the shittiest one, based on it.) Is there a version of this argument that doesn't rely on agreeing with you that bill was a good thing? Not being sarcastic, I am open to being convinced on that one, but my deep-seated hatred of that bill is going to overwhelm any chance of it if that's all we got.

# ¿ Jun 26, 2016 01:43

DACK FAYDEN: Feb 25, 2013; Bear Witness

Dexo posted:

Wait how the hell were there 4 dissents?

If only 3 voted against.

Did Scalia write a dissent from beyond the grave?

Thomas wrote one. Thomas also joined Alito's (along with Roberts joining.) Thomas really isn't happy about this.

# ¿ Jun 27, 2016 15:21

DACK FAYDEN: Feb 25, 2013; Bear Witness

Boon posted:

Im a big fan of anti-TPP being left out.

I don't post about this a lot cause it seems against the consensus here, but I am too. I know that it's bad for the specific people who lose jobs to TPP-enabled competition, but I'm very pro-free-trade and I think we should work harder on providing higher-quality domestic jobs and adult training initiatives :shobon:

# ¿ Jun 27, 2016 18:57

DACK FAYDEN: Feb 25, 2013; Bear Witness

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

TPP is only partly about free trade.

Most of it is establishing US-style IP protections and laws in the rest of the world. They want to standardize business to the way the U.S. does business to make it easier to trade and to make it so China has to adopt U.S. style regulations or get frozen out.

People who don't like U.S. style patent and IP law (generally longer patents than the rest of the world, especially for medical devices and pharmaceuticals) don't like getting the rest of the world on that standard because it would "entrench" U.S. style laws as the norm. Some people are just raging against it because it is a trade bill, but it is mostly about IP.

theblackw0lf posted:

Speaking of the TPP, Hillary in her speech today again came out against it. Also mentioned having a Trade Prosecutor (which from what I read she also talked about in 2008)

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/06/27/1542938/-Transcript-of-remarks-of-Hillary-Clinton-and-Elizabeth-Warren-in-Cincinnati-OH

I mean, the parts of the TPP that people I have heard of don't like are the parts Hillary is railing against here, all this "jobs to China" crap. I am not huge on long patent durations for drugs, but I also am not losing any sleep over it since they do expire eventually. It's not a loving Disney situation where copyright just gets extended for ten years every ten years, I mean.

# ¿ Jun 27, 2016 19:49

DACK FAYDEN: Feb 25, 2013; Bear Witness

Boon posted:

This thread has been pretty poo poo for the past few days so let's repost an article from last week that didn't get enough love and should be mandatory reading for the USPOL thread.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/07/how-american-politics-went-insane/485570/

I actually thought this was mealymouthed Very Serious Person centrism and didn't really like it. The people don't respect the political class etc.

# ¿ Jun 28, 2016 01:08

DACK FAYDEN: Feb 25, 2013; Bear Witness

Paradoxish posted:

And what I'm saying is that you're making a mistake by blaming our current state of affairs on a lack of compromise. Are you willing to compromise on same sex marriage? How about abortion? Healthcare? The whole point of compromise is to find an acceptable middle ground, which means we have to give something up too. The inability of our politicians to reach an acceptable consensus is a symptom, not the actual disease.

I am absolutely willing to compromise on abortion. Make it illegal outside of health exceptions after twenty weeks or whatever. Require the doctor to inform the woman about possible side effects. I could keep going but you get the joke, right?

There can be no compromise on same-sex marriage because either it's legal with all rights and privileges of marriage or it isn't - you can't compromise on something binary, right?

As for healthcare, I would consider a compromise if their side presented me with actual policies rather than the nebulous handwaving plus tort reform that they've been touting literally nonstop since 2010. Seriously, point me to one.

# ¿ Jun 28, 2016 19:10

DACK FAYDEN: Feb 25, 2013; Bear Witness

Dead Reckoning posted:

It's especially funny to argue that court appointments are just apolitical government housekeeping when people ITT have been openly talking about how they can't wait for Hillary to pack the court with liberal justices so that they can turbofuck the GoP agenda for a generation.

Eh, I'm not happy that W got eight years to appoint judges that I'll have to live with for a lot longer than that, but I'm definitely happier with judges I don't agree with than no judges at all. Much like how I'd rather have a state I don't like having two senators than not being represented at all, even though I don't like that the Republicans may control the Senate because of it. Gridlock is one thing but the three branches actively being understaffed is another in my eyes. Maybe that's just me.

# ¿ Jun 28, 2016 19:19

DACK FAYDEN: Feb 25, 2013; Bear Witness

ComradeCosmobot posted:

That's literally the official Republican line. Your compromise is "pass the anti-abortion bill as proposed by Congressional Republicans in this, the 114th Congress."

Yes, there are more extreme proposals, but that's only because the Overton window has shifted to make your "compromise" the "centrist" position when it was anything but 10 years ago.

(I think the compromise is loving awful. Don't believe I'm backing it. But if what it takes to prevent it being completely illegalized is a time frame and some bullshit doctor warnings, then yes, I'd rather have abortion legal.)

e: :rip:

double post my bad

# ¿ Jun 28, 2016 19:21

DACK FAYDEN: Feb 25, 2013; Bear Witness

theflyingorc posted:

Luckily for her, there has never been anyone in the whole world being weird and sexually aggressive RE: diapers

I was just going to ask if that was her fetish but your point is valid too.

# ¿ Jun 29, 2016 18:27

DACK FAYDEN: Feb 25, 2013; Bear Witness

Business Gorillas posted:

I mean that sucks for you but a personal choice v. being born a certain way is kind of a big deal. Sorry if this offends you somehow (???)

Why is it a big deal?

It would matter if the choice had an inherently correct or incorrect option, but it doesn't because there's no moral problem with transgender people choosing to live their life the way they wish to identify. Why does it matter?

# ¿ Jun 29, 2016 18:36

DACK FAYDEN: Feb 25, 2013; Bear Witness

Kit Walker posted:

Like, yeah, ultimately it shouldn't matter, but to some people the possibility of it being a choice is something that threatens the very existence of society. Convincing them that it's not a choice is probably the only way to get them to change their minds. Not that I've had any success changing her mind...

That's kind of how I feel. On the one hand, if it actually convinces the mushy middle to go with some sort of Born This Way argument, it's absolutely worth doing. On the other hand, it literally should not matter in the slightest because either way homosexuals should just be treated like everyone else, and I don't want to endorse that stupid birth vs. choice argument at all.

# ¿ Jun 29, 2016 20:11

DACK FAYDEN: Feb 25, 2013; Bear Witness

Sword of Chomsky posted:

Edit: apparently Noonan is not on the Trump train. What other woman with terrible opinions would fit in her place? Palin's out, we know Haley is out, anyone else?

Jodi "Hog Balls" Ernst?

# ¿ Jun 30, 2016 06:36

DACK FAYDEN: Feb 25, 2013; Bear Witness

DemeaninDemon posted:

My future mother-in-law claims to watch CNN to "get the other side's viewpoint."

She's also an idiot total fox news drone.

I was going to agree with her... but from the other side of the aisle :shobon:

# ¿ Jun 30, 2016 16:33

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# ¿ May 17, 2024 23:28

DACK FAYDEN: Feb 25, 2013; Bear Witness

OhFunny posted:

Some positive local news.

The New Hampshire Executive Council, which wields veto power over state contracts among other things, voted 3-2 to restore $549,000 in funding to Planned Parenthood. Chris Sununu, who is the frontrunner for the Republican gubernatorial nomination, cast the deciding vote. He voted against funding in August. He explained his switch as being due to the debunking of the PP videos allegedly selling body parts. He is pro-choice. He's getting hammered for it by other Republicans, but I don't think anything can stop him from winning the primary for Governor.

http://www.wmur.com/politics/executive-council-votes-32-to-restore-funding-to-planned-parenthood/40276040

Huh. Today I learned John Sununu not only has a brother, but that his brother is also a Republican politician. loving Sununus. They should... go back where they came from? To law school? Or something.

# ¿ Jul 1, 2016 01:53

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > USPOL June 2016: Oh say can you Arzy?