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Fur20
Nov 14, 2007

すご▞い!
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね!

Shibawanko posted:

Chrono Trigger is good but Terranigma is the best game on the snes.

no game with a forced out-of-genre stealth section can be the best anything

Snow Cone Capone posted:

Robotrek is a really fun game that nobody seems to have played

robotrek was cool but the endgame was a huge slog

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Fur20
Nov 14, 2007

すご▞い!
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね!

Rutibex posted:

sorry but Illusion of Gaia rules

except the part where you have to fight the vampires in mu

Fur20
Nov 14, 2007

すご▞い!
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね!

olives black posted:

If your game asks me to choose my character's backstory in a way that isn't directly tied to the stats/perks/etc. that I'm picking then your game has bad writing and is bad and you should feel bad

mass effect is bad

well what about if you're choosing like, "my character likes to smoke tons of weed" or "my character has a bunch of lovely tattoos" or "my character can play a variety of instruments"

that's kind of choosing your character's backstory too but it's not like "i'm a gritty colonist who was the sole survivor of <thing>"

Fur20
Nov 14, 2007

すご▞い!
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね!

Colonel Cancer posted:

You could convince Saren to shoot himself in the head, that was pretty sweet.

yea but then you have to fight him anyway. i thought that was dumb as hell

Fur20
Nov 14, 2007

すご▞い!
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね!

Snow Cone Capone posted:

IIRC it also made like, magic sparkles float around you or something. I know physical combat buffed you up and magic made you skinny, can't remember about the aging part.

agility made you tall, physical made you huge, and magic gave you glowing tattoos.

each level you put into a skill was worth the same number of years-in-age, but because the glowing runes weren't really visible until you had put like 40 or 50 ranks into spells, you basically wouldn't see any difference at all until your fable man was a billion years old

Fur20
Nov 14, 2007

すご▞い!
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね!

Rutibex posted:

unpopular opinion: Dead Money is awesome. I liked that it took all of your equipment away and turned it back into a survival game for a short while. also the NPCs were really interesting.

the survival part is fine. the bomb radio poo poo is poo poo

Fur20
Nov 14, 2007

すご▞い!
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね!

veni veni veni posted:

The push towards extremely long games really just happened in the last 5 or 6 years and really ramped up in the last couple of years. AAA game promising less than 50 hours are almost extinct unless they have an anticipated multiplayer component.

don't be ridiculous, extremely long games were a huge selling point even in the ps1 era

that's why people bought persona 1

Fur20
Nov 14, 2007

すご▞い!
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね!
saints row 2 actually has an extremely good and detailed open world. but you missed it because it was too dated, and i missed it because i tried to play it on windows 7

that said i symphatize with your plight of games looking too dated. i always piss off tons of people when i say deus ex looks too dated for me to take seriously

Fur20
Nov 14, 2007

すご▞い!
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね!

pooch516 posted:

3 does some cool stuff in terms of changing portions of the world and actually makes you feel like you're progressing in the game at a pace that matches the narrative. Also I'm pretty sure that they only force you to do reach mission type once and then just make them side stuff. As opposed to GTA where you'll do forty "follow the car" missions in the first five hours.

basically the worst thing saints row 3 did was remove the minigame where you spray poo poo at rich peoples' houses

Fur20
Nov 14, 2007

すご▞い!
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね!

olives black posted:

that's because it's a bad and lame opinion for babies

*i smugly add another notch to the side of my hellcat, as the smouldering wreckage of olives black :qq:s in the distance*

Fur20
Nov 14, 2007

すご▞い!
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね!

BeanpolePeckerwood posted:

Probably true, except for books. I read a lot of books.

have you heard about audio books. they're the future of reading

Fur20
Nov 14, 2007

すご▞い!
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね!

BeanpolePeckerwood posted:

Spiderman in '02 was a working class outcast who's main enemy was a billionaire and people were :what:

Spiderman in '17 works with and for billionaires and his enemy is a working class dude and people like :woop:

this is all at the feet of tobey maguire imo. nobody wanted that frodo lookin motherfucker to star in anything, and then he becomes spiderman? :raise: yeah, no.

working class outcast spiderman starring dwayne the rock johnson. that would've moved the people

Fur20
Nov 14, 2007

すご▞い!
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね!
i don't really care for tali but garrus was definitely my husbando. but because garrus can't be gay my shep just never romanced anybody, just two bros you know how it do

Fur20
Nov 14, 2007

すご▞い!
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね!

joedevola posted:

edit:


here actually you know what you're right let me just check out the thread and



What the gently caress does any of this mean. I am not a wizard. I am a stupid man who wants to play games at 60FPS with a mouse and keyboard.

The ps4pro does 4K, sometimes even at 60fps, right? £350. I understand economies of scale and streamlined production pipelines and the coding benefits of uniform hardware. I understand this. It still seems ridiculous to me that in this late capitalist nightmare we live in I can't just buy a thing for a reasonable price.

Look man I feel you, building a PC can be stressful but I tell you I've never done anything at all like what that excerpt is describing and I've built several of them at this point.

The opposite end of the argument you're proposing is, what else can your PS4 Pro do? Yes, I built a beast of a computer for a grand, but it's not just used for gaming. It has all this processor power that won't normally be used in a game, so why waste it? My PC is also a workhorse, I use it to run graphics programs, video editing, and writing and compiling builds. Show me a $1000 prefab Sony product that can run two different OSes, Final Cut Pro, Photoshop, and Unity, and we'll call it even.

yes i know lots of people try to separate their work machine from their game machine but i feel like that is actually a superfluous expense :v:

Fur20
Nov 14, 2007

すご▞い!
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね!

joedevola posted:

Answer honestly, how many people arguing in favour of building your own PC did it sitting in some unpardonably hideous black and red "gaming chair". It's like y'all hate having money.

the last time i built a computer i was sitting on the floor and my only chairs were the two aluminum wireframe ones that came with the apartment

Fur20
Nov 14, 2007

すご▞い!
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね!

christmas boots posted:

Yeah that PS3 emulator works really well

it works well enough to play thing that never got ported!

Fur20
Nov 14, 2007

すご▞い!
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね!

food court bailiff posted:

*because they would be like half a gig and the project team thinks that is somehow unacceptable despite today's drive sizes

Maybe drive size is no problem, but do you have any idea how long it takes even an SSD to write 500 megs?

poisonpill posted:

What actually good PS3 and PS4 exclusives are there?

persona 5, dragon's crown, a couple tales-of titles

Fur20
Nov 14, 2007

すご▞い!
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね!

QuarkJets posted:

I think in theory that's true but I'm having trouble thinking of even 1 example where that's the case. Like, was Silent Hill based on a book? That'd be a good example if it was

parasite eve

Fur20
Nov 14, 2007

すご▞い!
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね!

signalnoise posted:

I mean, are you really gonna make a good game out of To Kill A Mockingbird?

it would either have to be a really lovely side scroller, or phoenix wright

Fur20
Nov 14, 2007

すご▞い!
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね!

Rutibex posted:

Yeah but back then you had to do some work to put out a game. Now a days every game uses an off the shelf engine like unreal or unity. making something that's "Turok 64 tier" is possible with one guy, Unity, and some off the shelf assets in a few months.

I feel like this is unfair to the engines, they can just as easily be used as a force of good. Just because some kids use it as Advanced RPG Maker, or Crazy Ivan in eastern Europe is using it to gum up digital storefronts with lovely asset flips, or Twitterman makes two or three dozen cool-looking mockups that never actually existed as a game mechanically, or some gracelessly-balding hipster buys a lighting plugin and puts more work into vlogging about how hard his life as a Real Game Developer is than he ever will into actually making a game, doesn't mean that other people aren't using it to make fun, interesting, legit things.

Fur20
Nov 14, 2007

すご▞い!
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね!

Rutibex posted:

oh i dont disagree. I love all the off the shelf engines available, it makes game development much more accessable.

I will say one negative of game development becoming more accessible is that rebinding keys isn't actually native to any of these engines. It's hard to implement even with prefabs or other tools because their solutions are just as ghetto as a fix you would design yourself, and lots of devs seem to be too lazy to figure it out. So we get many games where the only keyboard layout is the default one, maybe with an alternate if they chose to hard-code it.

food court bailiff posted:

2d and therefore good, obviously

i should actually beat that one, i was enjoying it quite a bit

My quintessential LBW memory is, I knew there would be some kind of cool treasure in the Kakariko well, but I wasn't willing to wait until I got the Giant's Gloves to pick up the rocks to access it legit, so I just grabbed a chicken and flew in because gently caress your sequence

Fur20 fucked around with this message at 22:33 on Dec 22, 2018

Fur20
Nov 14, 2007

すご▞い!
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね!

food court bailiff posted:

i am finally trying to drag myself through learning unity, this cannot possibly be true, please tell me this isn't true, how could that even be a difficult thing to implement at the engine level

I bought InControl so I could natively support xbox/dualshock pads and their solution is :psyboom:, like it's not super difficult but you still have to do a fair amount of work, and the devs are cagey about the specifics re: how it works and how it persists so it's kind of a black box. I hate those, because there's no way to know what they were thinking when they wrote it.

Fortunately I had my own code I could recycle/refine and just feed its inputs through that, but yeah, my rebinding code is :psyduck: as hell too.

That game you like, the one by the AAA studio, that lets you rebind keys? Also ghetto af. I guarantee it.

v really? i always got the impression most people thought it was stupid and lazy

Fur20 fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Dec 22, 2018

Fur20
Nov 14, 2007

すご▞い!
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね!

ishikabibble posted:

Having the source code to an engine is totally different than something like Unity or Gamemaker

Quake engine is all code touching. if you wanna do anything you're basically rolling your own tools, which is why all the original stuff that wasn't just a map or a mod or something came from studios and not teens in bedrooms. GM and I assume Unity too are basically building blocks and it's entirely possible to make a game without needing to touch code. You're probably going to, but the amount you actually are required to is insignificant compared to making something on the Quake engine that isn't just Quake.

unity lets you make games on a codetouching level too but most people simply don't bother

i'll spare you my mbs-large classes but i guarantee you that if you want, you can do that kind of poo poo in unity as well. it's way more reliable than putting yourself at the mercy of the subpar editor, but you get to keep the robustness of its in-engine methods (at the price of... well, whatever the gently caress idiot spyware poo poo unity is trying to sneak into your build this day of the week).

OMGVBFLOL posted:

is making something like Unity feasible for an open-source community or is taking an engine to being “building blocks” likely too much work for people who aren’t being paid

i think this is the premise of monogame and that's not bad to work with, but it's a subpar and somewhat dated copy of its xna roots if you're trying to port. documentation exists but isn't the most accessible, and you can run into major problems if you don't build your project around monogame from day one.

Fur20 fucked around with this message at 06:42 on Dec 28, 2018

Fur20
Nov 14, 2007

すご▞い!
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね!

McGiggins posted:

Wait what's this about idiot spyware in unity?

For the past one or two years, Unity has been shunting various hidden scanning poo poo into all builds (unless you buy pro and specifically disable it in your build options--obviously not something most small time devs can afford to do until release) that secretly sends usage statistics, reports system specs, etc while Unity software is running. They keep trying various and different ways to obscure it from the devs so people accidentally send out builds of their games packed with Unity's spyware, and it came out as a big thing earlier this year because it wasn't gdpr compliant and you actually had to install a third-party plugin to interfere with their built-in phoning home to make their games Europe-legal.

Fur20
Nov 14, 2007

すご▞い!
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね!

food court bailiff posted:

:psyduck:

Where do you learn about this poo poo? I know you're an indie dev but I'm here literally just trying to learn blender and Unity for a project I'm poking with and it would be really nice to know things like "oh yeah your engine has a bunch of illicit reporting hooks". gently caress it, maybe I'll try UE4.

Once in a while devs will notice something amiss in their build options when they're editing them. Just before this blew up, some guy spotted it and took a screenshot to ask "hey why is Always Send Usage Statistics To Unity always on and greyed out?" Unity replied, "You can disable it, if you subscribe to our Unity Pro progrm!" And then everyone started asking, "Well, if I can't afford Unity Pro, what about GDPR regulations?"

And then it came out that no, it's not GDPR compliant.

What did Unity do about it? afaik they just hid it better this time

Fur20
Nov 14, 2007

すご▞い!
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね!

food court bailiff posted:

again, :psyduck:. i'm still probably going to end up using it, but yeesh

Well, as long as you buy a pro sub when you're ready to do your commercial build, you can disable all the poo poo. Though I'm of the mind that it should never have been there in the first place.

Fur20
Nov 14, 2007

すご▞い!
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね!
You can buy it whenever and still be golden, but I think the minimum subscription term is for a one-year contract. So all their "ONLY $99.99 per month!" bullshit is exactly that, because you'll be paying that multiplied by a factor of twelve anyway.

Honestly I would've stuck with XNA if Microsoft hadn't binned it.

Fur20
Nov 14, 2007

すご▞い!
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね!

olives black posted:

Got a link to back this up?

Yes I'm not trying to smear this lovely engine it's just a fact. This is from their own documentation.

https://docs.unity3d.com/Manual/UnityAnalyticsDataPrivacy.html

quote:

Maintaining compliance with GDPR when you use Unity Analytics
is a shared responsibility. Unity collects data to help you improve the player experience with ads and gameplay. Some of that data includes personally identifiable information (PII) regulated under GDPR. Unity provides the tools to allow a player to opt out of the PII collection, and to manage the personal data that Unity collects about them, as required by the GDPR. Your responsibilities include adding an opt-out button to your app, and providing a link to Unity’s privacy policy from your own privacy policy.

Opting out is locked and disabling data collection is greyed out for users who don't have a Pro license

Why even ask, I'm not trying to gently caress with you or lie to you dude. I'm currently using Unity, these changes have been forcibly and maliciously added to the editor in the three years I've been working on my current project, and these are major privacy and legal concerns that I'm going to have to address when I'm ready for launch.

e: I think maybe you want me to clarify why I describe it like this. It's because this was NOT in the editor when I started this project. Unity didn't hide phone-home hooks in their code at all previously. But it was added over time, and when it was, this is a massive change that wasn't announced or described to users or developers, it was just very quietly slipped into the program. Nobody even noticed it until some dev was changing his build options and saw, hey, this is a new category that was added with no one's knowledge, and you can't disable it without paying full price for Unity's service.

It's bad enough that it's a cash grab, but the fact that it makes your software legally non-compliant in the European Union is loving disgusting. That's not data collection, that's holding your program hostage.

Fur20 fucked around with this message at 20:52 on Dec 29, 2018

Fur20
Nov 14, 2007

すご▞い!
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね!

steinrokkan posted:

So if I bought a Unity game from Steam that didn't include an opt out button... I can sue Valve for billions of dollars because they infringed on my rights? I've found a way to secure my retirement

no but if they didn't disable it and didn't include opt-out, then the EU can fine the starving dev if you report them

Fur20
Nov 14, 2007

すご▞い!
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね!

steinrokkan posted:

Would they sue the dev if it's the Valve Corporation that sells, distributes and manages the product? That doesn't seem right.

Yes, because Valve doesn't necessarily guarantee GDPR compliance. If it pleased them, the EU could sue Valve in order to forbid the sale of non-compliant games in their territories, but that's not really a monetary case yknow? It would be resolved once Valve removed the offending titles from their storefront.

My understanding is that the GDPR isn't really something that you can sue for money over--it's just a guarantee of privacy-or-else--but technically the developer who released the software might be on the hook for violating/ignoring regulations. It's the responsibility of the individual, after all, but in reality, it's sadly just another way to gently caress the little guy while letting wealthier legal entities do whatever they want.

It'd probably go down like this: the dev made the conscious decision to use Unity, so it's their responsibility to make their game compliant with the regulations because they agreed to the fine print ToU when they installed the Unity Editor. Pay $500 and rectify the problem or you can't sell your game in our territories anymore.

Fur20 fucked around with this message at 01:15 on Dec 30, 2018

Fur20
Nov 14, 2007

すご▞い!
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね!

steinrokkan posted:

I mean, I work back office for a major retailer (of the brick and mortar kind) and AFAIK all the responsibility for GDPR compliance falls onto us, so that's why I'm surprised. I guess software distribution works different. The idea of suing for cash was just a joke.

Put it this way: if your store stocked hard copies of Fallout 76 (lol) and Bethesda was mining all their players' private information with specific identifiers (and who knows they might be doing this anyway and it just hasn't been found yet :v:), would you be on the hook for something that was unknowable to you because you have no access to the source code? Or would it fall in the lap of Bethsoft?

Or if you were selling idk smart TVs or whatever, and the Chinese manufacturer hid some malicious data collection methods in the firmware, but it wasn't found for a couple years but by an enthusiast in their basement or whatever.

Would you be on the hook for that? Or would the government fine the original manufacturers?

Fur20
Nov 14, 2007

すご▞い!
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね!
It's probably a nightmare to remake a game as vast and deep as Deus Ex on a modern budget.

Fur20
Nov 14, 2007

すご▞い!
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね!

Ghost Leviathan posted:

With modern graphical expectations, for that matter.

There's a lot of discussion and argument over in the FF7 remake thread about how that game's remake is in development hell and if it ever comes out is probably going to lose everything that made the original game interesting.

A remake of FF7 would fall short of expectations but it's not logistically difficult to remake. It's a huge game on an epic scale, but it's also extremely linear and fixed, so you can't really go wrong short of cutting important and iconic parts or changing it overmuch--the biggest danger is that there's a huge schism in the public's perception of it, that's divided between people who grew up on the original game and then people who are more familiar with the EU. The tone between the two is so massively different that it's honestly impossible to bridge the gap. You have to choose one, but you alienate half your audience.

Fur20
Nov 14, 2007

すご▞い!
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね!
I like my DS4 but the last USB controller I used was a 360 pad sooooo

Fur20
Nov 14, 2007

すご▞い!
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね!
inverted y-axis life. it's like tilting a camera irl

Fur20
Nov 14, 2007

すご▞い!
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね!
i never played any of those, i spent my formative years in a running camera and switch board for college over-air courses because the university was too cheap to hire enough staff to man their media center :v:

Fur20
Nov 14, 2007

すご▞い!
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね!

QuarkJets posted:

Do you also invert the x-axis then, you sick filth?

depends. first person no, third person camera maybe. the higher the angle of the camera the more likely i am to invert x-axis

Fur20
Nov 14, 2007

すご▞い!
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね!

Caesar Saladin posted:

the weapon breaking is so that you don't just pick up a really good weapon and use it the whole game, its so you can get a good weapon early without breaking the entire game, and its so picking up weapons often throughout the game is always useful even if you already have a better one, its super well thought out, but i guess this guy is not immersed in the amazing and deep world of Zeldor because the metal sword breaks too quick lmao

i didn't love botw but people complaining about weapons breaking in a game that is completely braindead easy already are babies. like what, you're super sad you lost your sword or something? you should have like 7 good weapons on you all the time if you don't suck immensely

actually the real problem with durability isn't that your cool poo poo breaks but that you have to keep managing your equipment in menus

this is a system problem, not inherent to the mechanic itself however, and applicable to any game where you'll switch weapons constantly in any way more involved than pressing select or L/R

Fur20
Nov 14, 2007

すご▞い!
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね!
doesn't matter. maybe you get a crappy weapon from a chest that you were expected to find earlier in the game and you wanna toss it out, maybe you have something that's getting low on durability but your stock is full, you still have to micromanage your inventory on a menu level and that's where the problem comes in.

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Fur20
Nov 14, 2007

すご▞い!
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね!
koei warriors games are really fun to play if you only play one every five to ten years

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