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Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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GreatGreen posted:

I'm still not sure how I feel about the game trading it's Metroid-style roots of slowly giving you more items and tools that unlock more and more of the world for the new philosophy of "we'll give you like 4 tools at the beginning of the game and unlock the whole thing for you at the start" though. I suppose both have their benefits.

To be fair, for me the Zelda series has been moderately open-world, with only a few areas locked off via items. You could wander strait into the 6th dungeon in Zelda1 a minute or two after starting the game, if you had balls big enough and the skills to fight your way across the hardest parts of the overworld. Later games strongly changed this, but to me the exploration was always there, just dangerous, Gothic2 style.

Breath of the Wild's open areas sounded interesting, right up until I heard how they handled items perishing.

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Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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I HAVE played it! So screw you.

Also what was the jump-scare in Gone Home, I seem to have forgotten that part?

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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Fartbox posted:

Bioshock 3 wasn't very good either. Weird and lovely story with mediocre gameplay. I did like the disney princess you got as a companion but the rest was TURD

The only thing unpopluar about this opinion is generously praising the gunplay as mediocre. Nobody likes Bioshock3.


vvv Major game "Journalists" will give a 8/10 to any festering stillborn abomination as long as it's an AAA title. When was the last time you saw them give a 3/10 to a major new release, even if the player base shat all over it the second it was released?

Serephina fucked around with this message at 12:14 on Oct 23, 2017

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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Eh, most servers in NS2 run the pre-game sandbox that lets you goof off as a lerk/fade/onos. NS2 is great, it just suffers from a learning curve (imo either Commander rather than Aliens in particular) and a very very niche market, which hurts a multiplayer only game.

Unpopular opinion: I had more fun with Rage than I did with Borderlands 2. Right up until the very very end of Rage, it was 100x a better shooter, more immersive, an economy I cared about. Then it didn't have an ending, but oh well still better than the time wasted in BL2. I guess BL2 had multiplayer?

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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You're still posting on the internet, so you're far from cured yet!

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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If you where older, you'd remember save points being an early console thing before PC gaming was a reality.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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Dyna Soar posted:

Pc gaming has been a reality since the dawn of computer gaming
This is technically correct, the best kind of correct. Also likely to get you not invited back to dinner parties. Someone coded a game for a Multix mainframe way back when, and so yes, there have been games ever since personal computers where A Thing. Apart from a few oddities such as nethack, most games (esp for kids) back then had no save states; you where kind of expected to finish the game in one sitting. Or select the level etc. I think the first save-able game I ever played was Zelda for the NES, and even then it's much closer to what we think of as save points; you could save&quit at any time, but it stuck you back at the beginning when you came back. But then we got stuff like Doom.

2house2fly posted:

OG Doom let you save anywhere? I never played much of it when I was young but I could have sworn it saved between levels. That's why the levels are designed to be beatable with only the weapons in that level, because you could die and start over with no weapons
Derail: As an aside, no, Doom didn't (iirc) save between levels, although you where offered the chance to restart with a pistol if you died. Levels where designed to be completable as such, though it's actually a challenge well beyond normal gameplay, where you where expected to have weapon progression.

Yea, you could save every 2 seconds in Doom if you felt like it. Which was revolutionary at the time, showcasing how cool PCs where (imo as a kid). It was also a terrible blow to game design, as even as kids we made fun of each other for saving every time you walked down a corridor. Yes, modern save points remove agency from the player, but making the player replay (small) segments of the game upon death is actually good for immersion, and skill mastery.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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I got Dead Space a year ago in a bundle or somesuch. Played it a bit, and apart from being dated, just struck me as being a really boring linear shooter. Played maybe an hour, which should be enough to get a feel for a title. I can't get Prey to run under WINE yet, but I'm really looking forward to it

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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I'm late to the nostalgia gaming chat, but I first played Super Metroid on an emulator, as an adult, in maybe around 2010? It was fabulous and stood up amazingly and totally sold me on the metroidvania genre which now has a lot of indie games on steam. Sturgeon's law holds up quite strong however, and 90% of everything released back then was total crap, much like today, and a few of the golden oldies simply have aged poorly. But some are still great.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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ChazTurbo posted:

Overwatch is boring and overrated and the cast the most blatantly market researched and safe I've ever seen.

That's all blizzard's done since about 2000? If you consider Diablo2 slightly risky, since it was their own IP and the genre didn't exist yet. It's not a black and white line, but more of a gradient, where literally everything since then has just been them re polishing established genres.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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Axeman Jim posted:

Civilization VI is without doubt the worst Civ game ever released. The game's mechanics actively punish you for trying to specialise your civ towards any particular direction and it pretty much forces you to play it the way it wants, which is the opposite of the point of a Civ game. It has completely given up any pretence of simulating history and instead it feels like playing a really boring board game. The cartoony graphics don't help either. It's just a bunch of game mechanics thrown together for you to interact with and has no immersive qualities at all.

Example: Archery costs 40% more to research unless you kill a unit with a slinger. Don't need a slinger? Have one that didn't get the last hit in on a barbarian? gently caress you, arbitrarily pay 40% more research for archery. So you end up building a slinger out of obligation and managing some random battle with barbarians so that it gets last kill, to avoid being penalised. There is one of these arbitrary requirements for every single technology in the game, making you go out of your way to do something you might not otherwise do just to avoid having your research punished. You know, like real leaders didn't.

Example: You can't even build your own roads until like 1600. Instead, trade units build their own roads as they go. This is to force you to use the trade units - like every other mechanic in the game, it makes you do one of everything or get punished. And you end up not making trade routes with any other civilisations simply so you can build a road network between your cities. You know, like ancient empires didn't.

Also they took out 2/3 of the Civs and added them as paid DLC, so gently caress that.

I thought this was the civ thread when I saw this. I'm not going to defend civ6, since it held no magic for me (while 5 still does, worryingly). But... did you honestly just forget that Civ:BE is right there? There is some mighty fierce competition out there for "Wost Civ game ever", without even getting into any of the spinoffs.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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Bajaj posted:

Humblebundle get shittier by the year.

By the month. It's amazing how fast Humble managed to devolve into utter shovelware.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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I love Alien Isolation, and I will never play anything more than the barely-intro bits that I played. These spooky games are great, but holy cow I cannot handle them.

System Shock 2 was great, I've been playing the Prey demo and super digging it. Problem is that it crashes every few seconds, which is probably mostly due to running it on Linux via Steamplay, but I'm secretly hoping the demo itself is just crashy (old internet posts claim so) while patched retail is stable. Feedback from owners?

A good lockpicking minigame was in Thief (older ones), where again you had to do it in realtime and often in the patrol path of a guy you're trying to dodge.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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I think I might have played a few minutes of Kane&Lynch co-op with my BIL. It had a vertical split screen? So you couldn't see poo poo, and it was horrible. We then went and fired up Rage co-op, which was super fun and totally sold the game to me.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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It's interesting hearing opinions of Last of Us; I played it blind of preconceptions, at my brother's insistence, on his PS3 (?), set the difficulty to Hard, and I'm not sure I touched anything else. I'm 100% sure it was hard (since he played on Easy at the time and I'm an idiot who was trying to prove some weird point?). I still remember having yellow-glowing stuff, possibly humans through walls? Anyways.

I wasn't really sold on the game, and after about 8 hours of gameplay (overnight binge) I set it down. Was at a point trying to sneak past a room clickers and kept drat dying and dying and was frustrated at the gamepad controls and my lack of situational awareness as a result. I enjoyed the resource crunch, but that's about it.

Thanks for listening!

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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Whenever I see screenshots or videos of those Monster Hunter games, It boggles me about the... unrealism of it? The suspension of disbelief always being shattered? I'm not sure how to say it. Basically you have your guy with a big sword fighting things the literal size of Godzilla, who somehow just doesn't sit on the player and crush him with its buttocks. How is this a fight? Do you not feel vaguely embarrassed at it all?

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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Rutibex posted:

I was playing katamari the other day, and it's still really awesome. now that's a good game for speed running. all the items are scattered around in such a random jumble, there are countless numbers of paths you could take to get a faster time. It's a lot more interesting challenge than running a Mario level really fast, you would need to like chart out the level and plan an optimum route on graph paper or something.

Quite possibly the perfect example of the traveling salesman problem!

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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Does Excitebike not count?

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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QuarkJets posted:

This was untrue before Crusader Kings basically merged the two genres

RPGs used to satisfy a very different itch because they were often driven by plot and worldbuilding. Planescape: Torment is cited as one of the best RPGs ever made because of those things. Likewise for Fallout 1 and 2. The gameplay is secondary in those games and that's fine

Meanwhile for a long time strategy games would often have the flimsiest veneer of plot and setting, but the games that actually tried to include those things were often well-received (Red Alert, Homeworld, etc). Still, character progression and story/plot/setting development were usually pretty rare in strategy games.

Then Paradox was like "hey let's make a strategy game that is character-driven" and everyone who liked RPGs was like "whoa holy poo poo this strategy game is awesome", likewise Endless Legend got a ton of praise because it's a strategy game that tries really hard to have the good RPG elements. I like Stellaris because it's basically doing the same thing, instead of just controlling an empire that seeks to rule the galaxy you are roleplaying as that. And there you have it, good strategy games that also include the good things about RPGs, leaving RPGs in this weird state where a lot of players can just go to the superior strategy-RPG genre to satisfy the same itch in a way better way.

I'm not sure Endless Legend is successful for it's 'RPG' elements. The endless series made its mark by being beautiful, something sorely overlooked by the time ES came out and is the hallmark of the series' major entries ever since. EL also has 'fluff' and 'narrative', which while present in RPGs I'm not really sure if can be called their defining characteristics.

I'm glad you like Paradox's titles, but after playing other titles and coming back to Stellaris I gotta say I can't stand it anymore, as the core gameplay, GUI, and mechanics all drive me up a wall due to being so... bad.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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Chomp8645 posted:

The Endless series strategy games get an A+ in presentation, flavor, and uniqueness. They also, imo, get a big loving fail on the actual "4x Gameplay" portion so I don't really like them.

I agree with all of that, but I also feel that there have been no good 4X games released in years and years, I think Sins was the last one I liked? It's pretty dire.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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Exactly, you can make an 'RPG' without all the backstory, it'll just be a crap rpg. but still a rpg. It feels like a 'no true scotsman' argument, but defining what a role playing game is on the computer is a little tricky. Is Final Fantasy 1, the original on the NES, a RPG? Or a jRPG? We'll call Baldur's Gate a cRPG for sure, but does Witcher3 fit in the same boat? It's all a bit fuzzy imo. So pinning down 'what makes an RPG an RPG' is a bit prickly. Probably 'roleplaying' should be in there, but the FF series might argue about that.

This is basically a huge tangent (which is fine for this thread!) on me raising my eyebrow about calling Endless Legend a RPG. It's got great fluff, but I don't think anyone runs around the map trying to fit in their factions character, compared to say Stellaris where who&what you want to be is a big part of the empire building.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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It's kinda interesting to see which Metriod games 'get it' and which are huge swings and misses. (I never bothered to touch the 3d entries) Fusion was such a disaster, and just a year or two later Zero Mission came out which hit the nail on the head so hard. AM2R was also great, and somehow I missed 'Samus Returns' entirely. Hrm.

A lot of what makes Metriod "Metriod" is the nature of the controls, and how the small moments of combat play out. Nothing I've seen from the Prime series feels anything like it.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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Yes, Fusion was the one that continually locked you into small map segments instead of letting you roam. Oh, and had a love story with a computer?!

It sold well since people where gagging for a new Metriod game and had no standards. The comparisons to Zero Mission a single year later really put it to shame.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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Shibawanko posted:

Doom I can appreciate but somehow never got into, I was probably the wrong age when it came out. Duke Nukem 3D was my game and Doom always just seemed like a more primitive version of that.

phasmid posted:

Even though it's clunky, I still play [System Shock 2] for nostalgia. It has a lot of little jumpscares that were made worse by infinitely respawning enemies and dwindling ammo & cash.

When I played Portal (always at a friend's house) it just seemed like a game based around that one mechanic. Like, cool, I can make portals. That's pretty goddamn lazy compared to some of the teleporter levels that id Soft made.

I feel that a lot of these titles are context-sensitive on when where and how they where released. Duke3d whouldn't have existed without Doom, which was scary and immersive and difficult at it's time. Also Doom somehow still has an active community about it, which is comical and great.

Portal wasn't a AAA title, it was released literally as a freebie extra for the Orange Box (back when people still payed money for TF2). It's still beautifully made, given its context as a tech demo polished up into a full game.

And SS2 was way ahead of its time. If you can stomach the early-3D uglyness, the gameplay is still good/better than modern titles, the only real flaw in the game is the too-sharp transition from boring pregame tutorial to dumping you strait in the deep end.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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I'm the biggeest SS2 fanboy there is, but even the devs knew in retrospect that the dive was too sharp. Lots of modern AAA games are wishy-washy in a lot of regards in their pursuit of the widest audience, but at least they're benefitting from experience as games-as-a-medium has been maturing. This past Xmas I bought a bunch of backlog titles such as Witcher3, Fallout: NV, etc, and it was sharp as night and day how much better intros in the recent/more polished titles where than the older ones.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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I had a mate like that, he'd show up to the weekly board game night back in Uni every week with a new game. Some where lemons, some where great. Thing is, he whouldn't want to play the great ones again, because he was always in need of people to try out his 2-3 new unplayed games. All. The. Time.
He eventually curbed the habit a bit, got his own board game published (!), got a kid and slowed down. Last I checked he still had a multiple bookcases, spanning an entire wall, floor--to-ceiling with board games. It'd be an amazing library and an opportunity to be a hub for the community, but he's too busy now with kids.

Irony.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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Pretty good meltdown, but it's hampered by the fact that's he's actually right for most of that.

So it's only gets a 5/10.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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Unpopular opinion:

Starcraft2's co-op mode is a sad testament to what people want out of their video games -I say this as a person who used to play it a lot-. Starcraft (and RTS's in general to a lesser degree) is built upon the idea of a competitive game. You're using your dudes to outmaneuver and murder an opponent playing with similar stuff that you are. Battle of the brains and all that. Campains are fun and all, but even older RTS's like the C&C entries had a ton of fun in the skirmish mode.

SC2's co-op is basically distilling any stressful/difficult/competitive aspects of the game out of the game mode. You're given a fun mini-race with a strong schtick and told to walk around the map killing and defending stuff. It's asymmetrical, which is fine, but the problem is that your race's schtick is SO STRONG that victory is a foregone conclusion. People like winning! Opposition implies you have to work for it, and might not get it. Big no-no!

So basically you have a game mode that:
Is designed to be easily won (Btw your 'co-op ally' is irrelevant, him leaving the game only makes thing every so slightly harder)
Encourages excessive repetition to get marginal stacking metagame bonuses (grinding xp, literally)
Encourages addictive behavior, via xp as mentioned above, but also stuff like "first win of the day bonus" etc.
And oh, has ingame purchases being shoved into your face constantly. Allies with cool DLC factions, etc.


So Blizzard's post-launch support is great, sure. But it exists mostly as a way to monetize the "casuals" with addictive behavior sales.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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Chomp8645 posted:

If you don't know, the SimCity 2013 online gimmick was mandatory, and I don't think they had private regions at first. One of the online gimmicks was that, if you had bus depots, your citizens could travel to other player's cities for work... or to look for work.

Someone quickly figured out a pretty good grief. Make a new city in a region, and build nothing but residential. Because the game was bad, even a city with just residential buildings (no commercial, no industry, no UTILITIES) would still populate over time. Additionally, a citizen's decision to permanently leave town was based on nice things/services/jobs versus taxes. Because this is SimCity 2013, you can guess at the sophistication of that algorithm. Short version: if you set taxes to zero nobody would ever leave, because their desire to stay could not be less than zero, while taxes were zero. Basically you just used your starting funds to make a giant row of tenement blocks in the wilderness with no services, which left you with plenty of people, but no jobs and lots of crime. Without police stations, the crime wouldn't go down. Without taxes, people wouldn't leave. And without jobs and services, they wanted to look elsewhere.

That's where the bus depots come in. If you used the last of your starting funds to add a bunch of bus depots to Remote Slum City then your citizens would take the bus to other people's towns to look for jobs. For reasons unknown, the criminals would do the same. Maybe they just wanted a change scenery. In this way you could flood other player's cities with your vast hordes of unemployed and criminal citizens arriving daily by bus. This would overwhelm most other player's police services, while also significantly lowering average happiness in the city on account of all the unemployed and the general Judge Dredd atmosphere on the streets.

When night fell your unemployed and criminal hordes would re-board the buses and return to sleep in their wilderness tenements without power or sewage, before getting up the next day to do it all over again.

Up until this point, I was reading along with interest but not fully seeing the grief. Then the bolded part comes, and I had to stop for a minute or two since I was laughing so hard.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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veni veni veni posted:

Geralt is kind of dumb looking and he walks like he has something in his butt.
Dunking on Geralt is kidna low hanging fruit. He's an idiot who will do ANYTHING if a pretty lady bashes her eyelashes at him, will cheerfully massacre literally thousands of humans and beasts one-at-a-time over the course of a run, but balk at odd plot moments. He thinks he's cool in the same say that the original James Bond novels thought what a 'cool' guy was, but at least the later Witcher games had the world poke fun at him.

So yea, he's a dork who goes to the gym.

jokes posted:

[...] Witcher would be better if you could make your own character and have it be some eldritch abomination that has a nose coming out of its chin but everyone still tries to bang you.
I DO appreciate, however, been given a pre-built avatar for these 'RPG' games. Geralt has voice acting, personality, and interacts with the world and it's characters in a way Skyrim etc can't. Also, god forbid, you can actually Role Play as a witcher and try to match Geralts (pretty simple tbh) moral code during quest choices.

tldr: Geralt > Cloud Stife

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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sebmojo posted:

James Bond is actually kind of a goon who gets dunked on mercilessly in the books, chitoryu's doing a really brilliant let's read of them at the moment. Bond spends most of his time getting tortured and drunkenly totalling Bentleys, it's great.

I stand corrected!

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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Are people in this thread actually missing out on how Borderlands basic gameplay loop, ie shooting people, was actually really poor? You can talk about drop rates, scaling, lack of variety etc all you want, but it's still a shooter game where the shooting sucks. Compare it to its contemporary Rage, a game that was shipped literally incomplete, for guns that where satisfying to use. (Or the Doom2 shotgun, for the gold standard)

Penny Arcade, for all their faults, said it best: A mediocre shooter bolted onto a medieval quest system.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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Bordlands doesn't have enemy scaling to your level, but what it does have is the same enemy you've fought a hundred times before, but this time his level is foo+1 so he takes more bullets so you need a new gun of foo+2 which acts a lot like the previous gun you had...

The MMO comparison others made is valid, it borrowed the very worst from it.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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Vakal posted:

Speaking of race relations, I wish they would remake the original Black & White.

The game had too much potential to just be forgotten.

The 'trouble' with Black & White, if it can be called that, is almost the entire project was about making a believable learning AI pet, which just highlighted the differences between a Toy and a Game. I loved goofing off with the pets and it was all very organic and fun, but as soon as you left the first few 'levels' the campaign took a sharp nosedive as it turns out the gameplay was miserable to play through. B&W2 tried to take a stab at making a cohesive Game with rules and objectives using the theme 'War', but it kinda fell flat.

Using modern infrastructure etc, I'd imagine the most successful B&W reboot would be a tamogatchi that follows you around on your various devices, almost like Siri.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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QuarkJets posted:

People who pick warrior in a game with wizards are already boring so making the warrior choice also boring is just playing to your audience

When I was a kid I that warriors where the most boring thing on earth, who wouldn't want to be the wizard? Now that I'm older and have played fifty thousand hours of various gaming, wizards are still cool, but I'm attracted to warriors as a quick litmus test to see if this new game has any worth at all. My view is that the basic 'man hit things with stick' gameplay loop needs to be a good, interesting system that's fun, before you go covering up all its flaws with bizarre gimmicks like summoner classes etc.

My best example of a game failing this was Diablo3, about a year ago (so very very post-launch, post-fixes). I played the demo and never has a demo anti-sell a game to me so hard. I played the Barbarian up the demo end of killing Leoric, and I was bored to tears the entire time. Didn't even use a healing potion until Leoric, despite playing recklessly.

So yea, it's not that warriors suck, its just that some games suck and the warriors bring it out the worst.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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food court bailiff posted:

i love music and i love roguelikes and i just have never been able to get into crypt of the necrodancer, and i am very disappointed the new zelda spinoff game isn't just a fresh top-down zelda from an indie studio

I'd suggest paying as the Bard character, which doesn't have the music beat to play to and turns the game into a strictly turn-based RL that's more familiar. Even if you never touch the beat part of the game, at least you'll see all the cool design and get your money's worth.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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At least the SoM remake used alternate camera angles and stuff. The ff6 remake looks to be a strait downgrade, impressive in it's shame.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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Time_pants posted:

Is the party timing/window still as brutally narrow as Dark Souls? Because you have to be some kind of time travelling hummingbird to consistently party in those games. Yes, even with the Target Shield.

And, yes, we're all very impressed with whoever "That Guy" is with 400+ hours in every Soulsborne title who will inevitably quote this and insist that they have no problem parrying anything and that the mechanic is perfect and utterly without flaw. We're all very impressed at the size your brain and penis.

But for the rest of us, is any additional leniency built into Sekiro's parrying since it's apparently so central to the game?

If you're having trouble with the timing your party, I suggest lining it up a few weeks in advance, and just let the chips fall as they may on who makes it. Can't please everyone, man.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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William Henry Hairytaint posted:

I feel this way about achievements. They're supposed to be milestones you get along the way to show what happened in your game and how you played, not dumb little challenges you're supposed to deliberately tailor your play style to get. Anyone who deliberately hunts achievements is an idiot.

Funny, I felt quite the opposite. When the cheevo system came out, it could acknowledge nonlinear gameplay goals such as trickshots or worthy events not tied to the normal gameplay/plot/progression. Which I thought was cool! Then cheevos where a hard requirement for everything everywhere and most devs didn't give a hoot, quite rightly.

But I think we can all agree that people going out of their way to get 100% cheevos has a very serious problem.

I also just like the shorthand cheevos, it sounds like junk food which is so wholly appropriate. Cheevos.

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Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

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I watched that live-ish. He got in a little bit of trouble afterwards, but it's a really good snippet of his personality in the normally very serious pro scene.

In my defense of watching others play video games, I actually DID play bw/sc2 seriously. Does that make more more or less of a loser?

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