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Euphoriaphone posted:Meta question but what was the tone of D&D towards the end of the 2016 primary? Was there as much pushback against the vote blue no matter who mentality as there is now? basically an insufferable victory lap, and i say this as someone who was part of the insufferables it's not like hillary clinton, the most qualified candidate ever, could ever lose to a fat orange idiot who can't read. now to take a big sip of water
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May 5, 2020 04:04
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beating trump is the most important thing in the universe and we must pragmatically do anything to do so except move left, we can't do that for some reason
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May 5, 2020 19:05
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How are u posted:If he tries he will face incredible pushback from the people who helped get him elected, that I know. I'm confident we can win that fight and make sure that a bailout comes with conditions that set up the managed-decline of the industry. Obama immediately dismissed the people who got him elected then spent the rest of his terms making their lives worse. They do not care once they're in office.
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May 5, 2020 19:09
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How are u posted:If you worked within the system and built power within the system (Virginia model) then nobody could write you off. You are instead choosing to stand outside the system and shout "the system is bullshit, I will not be held hostage! You have no claim to my vote!" and are then angry when the people inside the system who are doing the hard work write you off as a crank. what hard work are they doing exactly like if they're writing you off as a crank it might not be because they're principled warriors fighting within the system, it's because they're part of that system
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May 5, 2020 19:10
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:That's just the thing: the Democrats seem to think that it's so self evident that they're the 'good guys' that they don't need to give people a reason to vote for them. I had a somewhat similar conversation elsewhere, in which a Democratic voter informed me that "college students don't exist" because they didn't come out to vote. The thought that people would show up by the busload for you if you gave them a reason to vote for your candidate never entered into the equation. the "young people didn't vote" centrist talking point is insanely disingenuous considering half the country never had a chance to vote, the voter suppression and number fudging, and the outright hostage situation via pushing people to vote in a pandemic until bernie dropped
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May 5, 2020 19:12
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Trabisnikof posted:Yes it is, and my point is that you’re judging based on who you think will help you and your family not what’s best for the world, or at least that’s what you said. Which is the same attitude you claimed anarchist had disparagingly. yeah people like politicians who will actually materially help them rather than mumble platitudes
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May 5, 2020 19:14
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How are u posted:Running Progressives in state and local races, winning, governing responsibly, and building and growing a voter base that consistently comes out to vote for left candidates. they're not doing any of this, progressives are doing it without, and in some cases directly in spite, of them
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May 5, 2020 21:57
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rscott posted:Centrist Democrats in Virginia are trying at least as hard to remove leftists like Lee Carter from their ranks as they are to defeat Republicans, and the same is true with AOC, Ilhan Omar and Rashida Tlaib on a national scale. Sure the leadership loves to take credit for the progressive legislation pushed by these leftists but when it comes down to brass tacks they'd much rather get rid of them than move to the left. joe biden is more of a direct attack against the left than an actual candidate. they saw that someone who wasn't far-right might actually get nominated and in response forced in the most odious and lovely candidate possible as if to say "gently caress you, we call the shots here" like everyone knows he's going to lose
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May 5, 2020 21:59
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Trabisnikof posted:So for these polls to be good for Biden you have to assume that this race will be less dynamic than 2016 and that there is less risk of Biden having negative news cycles than Hillary. To me, that runs counter to the premise that Hillary was uniquely widely hated, since that would have been backed into early polling. No one who likes Rush Limbaugh ever said they were voting for Hillary. so it hasn't been normalized at all, and trump has a massive pile of fresh ammo he can just fire at the biden campaign all day it's going to be a slaughter
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May 5, 2020 22:05
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KingNastidon posted:Who forced him in? The voters? Biden had the best chance of the moderate candidates before and after SC. He had the highest number of expected delegates. No one was forced to vote for Biden just because some other candidates dropped out. he was in dead last before obama stepped on the scale
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May 6, 2020 00:39
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bobjr posted:The main motivator is Trump, and the only way you see that not get worse is Trump performing a miracle and creating a vaccine himself. Trump's base is immovable, Biden's is not. The longer Biden falls under scrutiny the more vulnerable he becomes because he is tremendously terrible as both a candidate and a human being.
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May 6, 2020 00:43
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KingNastidon posted:And once you've vanquished the moderate liberals where will their home be? Not economically left enough for the new Democrats, too socially left for Republicans. Do you not consider their plight and lack of home or is it all about me, me, me? Considering they're cheerleading rape they're not actually socially left, sounds like they'll fit right in with Republicans. The correct answer, of course, is "who cares" because these morons are active impediments to progress
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May 6, 2020 00:45
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Scientist Al Gore posted:As a Democrat the party absolutely has room for anti-capitalists. the party is actively hostile to anti-capitalists
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May 6, 2020 01:30
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Scientist Al Gore posted:No doubt, but you should still join and try to participate. this was tried this primary, the party responded by nominating the worst possible candidate purely out of spite quote:Out of curiosity, how would posters here rank the last dozen US Presidents on a political compass chart? first of all, you have a lot of wasted space there  just throw darts at this square
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May 6, 2020 01:38
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Scientist Al Gore posted:
you specified "last dozen"
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May 6, 2020 01:43
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also yeah FDR wasn't the greatest himself, he was just smart enough to know that he was about to have a literal class war on his hands if the rich weren't strong-armed into doing the right thing for once in their live e: though tbf this still puts him above like every other president Yinlock fucked around with this message at 01:48 on May 6, 2020 |
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May 6, 2020 01:46
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Roland Jones posted:And they wanted to kill him for it. oh yeah the rich loving hate being told what to do like children even though it's consistently the only way to get them to do things that aren't insanely destructive Zamujasa posted:It's hilarious to read all this "you should stay in and vote blue because that will totally move the democrats leftward" from people who apparently don't realize that the folks in charge of said party gain literally nothing from pleasing voters over doing what their rich donor base wants. Personally I think they're stupid and controlled opposition
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May 6, 2020 01:52
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Scientist Al Gore posted:Eh, the test is designed to find your bias. The one you posted is pretty cool though, I haven't seen that before. that's definitely how "pragmatists" see themselves, but they tend to act on emotion and just label whatever terrible thing they want as "pragmatic"
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May 6, 2020 03:04
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misadventurous posted:I don’t get the “hehe but Bernie” poo poo at this point. I guess the assumption is that every left-of-liberal person who criticizes how the primary went down and thinks Biden is a weak shithead is just having sour grapes about Bernie. I actually would also like Trump to lose, he’s not going to if we have shitshow primaries rife with voter suppression that spit out weak candidates who don’t actually represent the electorate. That's why I insist that Biden is a direct message to progressives rather than any kind of candidate because come on, loving everyone knows trump will slaughter him. ColonelMuttonchops posted:To be fair, alot of joes voters were willing to go out and die for him, too. We'll have to see how many of them are still around to vote for him again in November. I don't think they were exactly willing since Biden was saying it's totally fine and safe
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May 6, 2020 15:12
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FlamingLiberal posted:I said it in 2016 and I’ll say it again- the people that work at the DNC/party leadership/think tank lanyard people stand to lose so much more if someone like Bernie gets to be in charge as compared to Trump biggest of all is probably their delusion that they're the enlightened rulers making hard decisions for the ungrateful plebs
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May 6, 2020 17:17
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Roland Jones posted:They're moving to vote-by-mail. They're not canceling any of the other primaries, just the presidential one. It's 100% an attempt to suppress the vote, nothing more, and pretending otherwise just proves that you're not being genuine. Though those quotation marks, which I assume represent you quoting someone's criticism of Biden's campaign telling people in other states to go vote in-person in the primaries and lying about what the CDC recommended, imply that as well and strongly suggest you're just being spiteful here. also, they only stopped in-person primaries immediately after bernie dropped it was a literal hostage situation
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May 6, 2020 21:59
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Araenna posted:Literally hours after! it's always infuriating seeing dems seamlessly meld together into ruthless monsters marching in lockstep when it comes to stopping the left, then immediately bumbling off when it's time to actually fight the right
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May 6, 2020 22:05
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Xombie posted:No, because Obama himself was still extremely popular. Obama won 52% of the vote in 2008 and 51% in 2012 (vs Mccain 45% and Romney 47%). If Trump loses that much support and the Dems gain that much support, he'd be losing with Biden getting a majority of the popular vote. The same shifts would result in Biden winning not just a majority of votes but easily the electoral college as well. Joe Biden is not Barack Obama
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May 6, 2020 22:08
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Xombie posted:Correct. The question was about Trump being Barack Obama. You still framed it as "if joe's performance matches obama's then" Obama is a terrible human being but a once-in-a-generation political talent(e: and he still barely beat mitt romney, most evily boring man in the world, in 2012 because mitt torpedoed himself like a moron) Biden has been disqualified from running for president twice for plagiarism and cannot go 5 seconds without sexually assaulting any woman or girl he sees and yes, it can be argued that Trump also does that, but Trump's base does not care. Yinlock fucked around with this message at 22:15 on May 6, 2020 |
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May 6, 2020 22:12
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Epic High Five posted:ya lol, like with Trump the Dems will probably block the gutting of SS/Medicare, PROBABLY, but under Biden it's absolutely gonna happen and tons of other terrible stuff, all in the name of f i s c a l r e s p o n s i b i l i t y if they actually replace Biden with Cuomo it'll be even worse, that dude loving loves austerity to the point where he refuses federal aid so he has an excuse to impose it
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May 6, 2020 22:16
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Sharkie posted:He is a known liar. He lies, boldly and often. So what are those words worth? He's a very bad liar but he loves lying anyway
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May 6, 2020 22:18
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How are u posted:I'm pretty sure that all of those folks, even if unexcited, are going to turn out hard to vote Trump out. I think it's going to be a small, but extraordinarily vocal, minority of folks who stay home just because of Biden if Biden is indeed the nominee. Considering how the DNC just spat in their faces and told them to go gently caress themselves, I would doubt that
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May 6, 2020 22:20
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COVID-19 posted:My favorite thing about the Biden website is how proud they are of this: - Ensure good things happen long, long after I could ever be held accountable for stopping them How are u posted:Just because you feel that the DNC has done this to you does not mean that everybody else feels the same way. I suspect you are in the minority here, and I suspect that most people who would have preferred another candidate will gladly help elect Biden to get rid of Trump. I "feel" like the DNC did that because they did Also why would "gladly" help elect Biden when Biden hasn't offered them anything Yinlock fucked around with this message at 22:26 on May 6, 2020 |
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May 6, 2020 22:23
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Somfin posted:Of course. You have to be able to "win" before you'll do the obviously good thing. Good luck on that. Biden can't win, though
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May 7, 2020 02:21
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Civilized Fishbot posted:From what I can tell, there's two different sane reasons not to vote for Joe Biden even though he appears to be the "lesser evil" there's a lot of overlap because biden is the worst choice both morally and pragmatically
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May 7, 2020 02:24
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Scientist Al Gore posted:Really? Are these people blithering dipshits? Yes.
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May 7, 2020 04:30
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Scientist Al Gore posted:Here's what the results could be and Trump gets you hotter than Biden. Biden has coal people on-deck so they're about the same on environment, as in neither will do anything
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May 7, 2020 04:41
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yronic heroism posted:A white guy getting told by a phone call from another white guy to vote Bernie is democracy in action, but if black people choose to vote differently that’s manufactured consent? Good to know. age was the major factor for Biden, not so much race nothing motivates old voters(who will vote trump anyway) quite like loving over young people
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May 7, 2020 06:52
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The bar on foreign policy is so unbelievably low that Trump not actually starting yet another war puts him way above most other modern presidents on it This is because he's a coward rather than any kind of moral stance, but see previous statement re: low bar
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May 8, 2020 19:14
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Xombie posted:Why should I to take time to "acknowledge" your imagined future policy of Biden's administration when you guys whitewash the very real current policy of Trump's? Because Obama is constantly trotted out as the example of how Biden would govern, and it's a fact that Obama is a monumentally terrible far-right ghoul who Biden is even worse than
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May 8, 2020 19:17
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VitalSigns posted:Your argument that Biden is the lesser evil is also based on your imagination, I agree it's a stupid argument and instead we should deal with facts like Biden credibly raped Tara Reade and should not be president Also he has dementia, also he's a racist, also he's spent his entire life loving over the people he's responsible for, also just pick a reason really, there's a lot of them
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May 8, 2020 19:18
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remember not long ago when biden was accusing trump of not hating chinese people enough, he will absolutely plunge the usa into yet another war first chance he gets
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May 8, 2020 22:01
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Do you think progressives WANT to be sticking up for Trump? Trump is a loving monster who ruins everything he touches and has and will bring abject misery to millions, but the hard fact is that Biden is just as bad if not worse by all metrics, and it sucks.
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May 8, 2020 22:03
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nivdes posted:Alternatively, opening his Senate records for public review would give the Trump campaign endless amounts of material to use against him all for the sake of attempting to clear the air over a sexual assault allegation without changing anyone's mind. you know that the convention hasn't happened yet right like just open the files then exchange him for a candidate that doesn't suck rear end
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May 9, 2020 07:06
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Shageletic posted:in every metric, the Dems have veered right, from national security to trade. Anyone who lived thru the aughts saw it firsthand tbf they've started campaigning as progressives(since only progressives actually win elections dem-wise) but they're insanely bad at it
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May 9, 2020 07:08
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