US CE Spring 2022: I'm convinced it's useless which is why I argue about it all day every day

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > US CE Spring 2022: I'm convinced it's useless which is why I argue about it all day every day

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Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

The one potential hitch is that it is a brand new independent union that is not affiliated with any national union, so there are no pre-existing resources, organization, or other members outside of this warehouse group.

Ironically I think them proclaiming themselves a brand new independent union is what won it for them, because it�s the perfect argument against the �unions used to be good but now they suck/are corrupt/insert anti union talking point here� because you can say �yeah that�s why we formed our own so we don�t got all that baggage, just the good stuff.�

# ¿ Apr 1, 2022 18:40

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# ¿ May 11, 2024 20:24

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

That's what Eric Adams is doing in NYC. Getting the homeless out of the subway stations, trains, and parks and putting them up in free NYC apartments. They only have 500 units, though.

As long as there aren't more than 500 homeless people in NYC, they should be fine.

Don't they buy them bus tickets to Florida for the winter?

# ¿ Apr 6, 2022 15:53

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

Willa Rogers posted:

Yeah, California's various CPS agencies are a hot mess that have resulted in the murder of dozens of kids, and that's also happened in a lot of other states.

Remember that weirdo Turpin couple who locked up their kids & starved them? The Riverside County CPS placed a few of the kids in a foster home in which they were molested & tortured, which is absolutely heartbreaking.

And let's talk about how they decide who gets to be a foster family, because woo hoy. I have childless friends who are willing to foster, they said they hope to adopt one day Bam. Instant disqualification for being a foster parent. But you don't actually care about the kids and just want a steady paycheck from the government to do poo poo like the above? Hey great, you're perfect, sign here.

# ¿ Apr 7, 2022 18:20

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

Willa Rogers posted:

Did I say it was "upsetting" or "controversial"? No; I said it makes me laugh, which it does.

I sometimes wonder what alchemy is involved between my typing something & the interpretive dances that are posted in response.

People are trying to understand what you find funny about it. I have home security, it came with the house we bought. We kept it to use when the kids were little to know when a door or window was opened because the little toddlers were always trying to go outside (it beeps a few times) and hooked it up to our sump pump because the last time it failed it flooded our basement when we were out of town so they call if the power goes out to it, which has saved out butts several times (high water table).

# ¿ Apr 7, 2022 18:28

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

haveblue posted:

9/11, mostly. You didn't need a passport to cross until shortly after that

You didn't need a passport to cross if you were white. My Asian college roommate got called out every time we cut through from Michigan to Boston for spring/summer breaks to visit her family.

# ¿ Apr 12, 2022 00:04

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

Would love to see the textbook makers push back and make public the reasons Florida gave them for rejecting including examples. I'm sure they'd be quite illuminating, like 'why is the kid in this question's name Jamal? Why not Johnny? What are you trying to push here?'

# ¿ Apr 18, 2022 17:43

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

He'll just bald-faced deny it if he's learned anything from Trump and they'll believe him.

# ¿ Apr 18, 2022 20:17

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

RBA Starblade posted:

This is what I was thinking of. I can only imagine the hell that would be working as an "actor" there.

Probably about what working at Colonial Williamsburg is like.

# ¿ Apr 22, 2022 17:29

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

RBA Starblade posted:

Sorry, you're right, that was unclear and I should have made that its own statement. I only mean that supporting this also means supporting its follow-on effects. Clearly LALD is not raising anyone's taxes (and as pointed out, probably rents) to cover this themselves.

I guess, except 24/7 right? Unless they're just going to have a curfew so no nightlife, if it goes forward.

Shift work. You know there are like 6-7 Cinderellas, Snow Whites, Goofys, whatever at any one time circulating the parks.

# ¿ Apr 22, 2022 17:46

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

As someone who by fortune of fate and a childhood of being raised poor and having drummed into me from birth that debt=bad and so was able to leverage a dot.com job into paying off my student loans a few years after I graduated, and whose husband had his college paid for his parents who scrimped and saved to do so, forgive it all, idk. College should be free anyway, drat the 99c ramen market.

GlobalMegaCorp posted:

I wonder if the response would be any better if they just retroactively wiped away the interest and set the rate to 0% moving forward. Seems �fairer� in my mind, in that people still need to pay for what they took out, but aren�t going to be infinitely burdened with an ever growing balance they can never hope to pay back

They should wipe all debt that would've already been paid off if it weren't for the interest, IMHO. Paying 99k for a 10k loan because predatory interest rates and you went into something like social work that requires a master's so made jack poo poo for 20 years is criminal.

# ¿ Apr 27, 2022 16:56

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

RBA Starblade posted:

degree or no you can always learn to be more handy. I certainly have after buying my home, anyway. 99% of the time you don't need that plumber or electrician.

But the trick is knowing which time falls in that 1%, and it is a very expensive mistake to make if you're wrong.

# ¿ Apr 29, 2022 00:44

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

Herstory Begins Now posted:

on the other hand you can save hella money by skipping the engineer and the architect 99% of the time

Grover parachute acct spotted

# ¿ Apr 29, 2022 15:54

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

FlamingLiberal posted:

The Saudis have spent the better part of 20 years trying to suppress this information, but I believe this had previously been suspected

https://twitter.com/seth_hettena/status/1519831372344414208?s=21&t=_PaqpWhZbD5GfighsOJnYQ

So what does this mean exactly in the grand scheme of things? Brutally torturing and murdering one of our own civilians didn't do poo poo to their relationship with the U.S., and with Russian oil under embargo its not going to do anything now. If Biden were smart he'd streamline building nuke plants like, yesterday given every place with significant amounts of oil is under control of unstable fascist psychopaths at best.

# ¿ Apr 29, 2022 16:08

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

rscott posted:

Actually it's first they banned my clove cigarettes

(IDK if anyone else went through a phase where they smoked Djarum Blacks)

what was your goth name

# ¿ May 2, 2022 15:24

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

CuddleCryptid posted:

It's not unreasonable for people to loudly state that "actually getting an abortion sucks pretty bad and its not done lightly" when the main opposition is loudly saying "people are having champagne parties where they do drugs and have abortions because they like it so much".

It's fortunate that people can have an abortion in the same way that it's fortunate that they can have chemotherapy. That isn't a moral judgement, just a practical acknowledgement that undergoing a medical procedure to solve a problem sucks.

You know what sucks worse? Not being able to get a medical procedure to solve a problem. Like noone is running around going 'ooh I love chemotherapy! I hope I get cancer! Can I have a drag off your cigarette?' but you drat well better believe I'ma be first in line to shoot that poison into my veins should they find a tumor.

# ¿ May 5, 2022 15:24

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

RBA Starblade posted:

How popular is the idea currently? We discussed it before but the poll showing "not at all" seemed pretty leading iirc

Defund the police is not at all popular even among minorities.

quote:

Only 18% of respondents supported the movement known as "defund the police," and 58% said they opposed it. Though white Americans (67%) and Republicans (84%) were much more likely to oppose the movement, only 28% of Black Americans and 34% of Democrats were in favor of it.

# ¿ May 6, 2022 15:55

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

Yinlock posted:

There's unfortunately no real punchy way to say Defund The Police And Shift The Money To Poorly-Funded Social Services Rather Than State-Sponsored Terrorists, though.

I think they should've started at Abolish The Police and negotiated down from there, the left often makes the mistake of starting from the compromise position.

Or call it 'Let the Cops Do Their Jobs' and say its unfair to make big strong protectors and crime fighters do social work poo poo like mediate domestic arguments, deal with homeless and addicts and runaways and prostitutes and other 'social ills' and put money towards that instead. And because those social workers will sometimes need cop protection because sometimes those situations can get hairy, they should probably work together, and since now you've got both cops and social workers working together, it makes no sense to call it a police department, just call it public safety and keep them all under the same budget. Leave unsaid the 'so now money that used to just go to skull breakers now goes to social workers which will be a de facto reallocation of resources.'

You paint it as doing the overworked cops a favor by expanding social services they aren't trained to do so take it off their plate, and it'd be a lot more well-received.

# ¿ May 6, 2022 21:35

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

Jaxyon posted:

That might not play well with the people who know that violating their civil rights is what the cops do as their jobs.

But it wouldn't be the first time that white activists told minorities that their safety was less important than a rhetorical win.

And yet polls are telling us those selfsame minorities are not down with defunding the police, which is mainly driven by white leftwing activists.

# ¿ May 6, 2022 21:49

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

Jaxyon posted:

Polls don't actually say that, they say that if you ask it slightly differently people support it very well. "let the police do their jobs" is incredibly tonedeaf to sell to a community that knows that the job of police is to harass them.

No poo poo. That�s probably because that slogan isnt meant for that audience, it�s meant for the blue lives matter flag flying audience, whose first response to hearing it is going to be �yeah!� and when you frame it as taking the pussy feel good touchy feely bullshit off the cops already overfull plates and giving it to some bleeding heart liberal instead both cops (who really do not actually like dealing with that poo poo) and their toxic masculinity cop worshipping throngs are going to again say �yeah that makes sense� because, again, it fits into the common Hollywood portrayal of cops charging heroically into gun fights not mediating domestic disputes. Then when you further point out that those social worker types are going to need and want cop backup and since you don�t want to add to the already too big government bureaucracy so put them all in the same department and just fund it all out of the same pot and call it public safety so the social workers can�t be all �we�re police too!� and steal that cop valor and free up the cops to fight the REAL crime (aka violent crime that everyone�s actually worried about).

There, you�ve reduced the budget for actual cops, repurposed that money towards programs you want, removed cops from the more delicate jobs that are better handled by trained professionals, made the cops feel all manly and tough and reassured their supporters that what you�re doing is actually supporting them AND fighting violent crime, all while making your opponents the ones who have to argue �no, DON�T let the cops do their jobs� which sounds really bad to the 60% of people who oppose defunding them and they�re the ones stuck explaining what they REALLY mean.

quote:

And I can tell you in LA police reform activist groups support defunding, and those groups are predominately people of color.

police reform activist groups don�t exactly need to be sold on the idea, and are way outnumbered by the people of color who are not loving the increase in drive bys in their neighborhoods and want it to stop yesterday.

quote:

The job of the police is to harass and hurt minorities, Oracle. What the gently caress made you think that is a good slogan?

See above. You have to speak to the audience that needs convincing, not the ones who already agree.

quote:

Crime isn't "really bad". It's at a statistical low point following a trend for decades. Areas that are "high crime" don't need more police because they're already overpoliced. There's a significant amount of time and money spent on propaganda that says that crime is bad and police are the solution.

Violent crime, especially shootings and carjackings, has seen a distinct uptick in the last two years and those poor and minority neighborhoods are bearing the brunt of it, and in my area at least are the ones calling for things like license plate readers and increased patrols.

quote:

And when crime is "really bad" under a "tough on crime" regime, people don't question whether or not "tough on crime" is effective, they just try and get tougher on crime. People do not have clear ideas on how bad crime is and what can be done to fix it.

and yet those people�s votes are worth exactly as much as yours, only there�s more of them, and screaming �defund their police� at them doesn�t appear to have changed their minds.

quote:

The are told that more cop spending is always the answer, constantly, and so they are resistant to any idea that reducing spending. The best slogan in the world isn't going to change the fact that a significant portion of TV time is spent scaring people about crime and glorifying police.

So you meet them where they are and couch your message in the language they�ve been propagandized to embrace Jesus Christ how is this so hard to understand?

# ¿ May 7, 2022 07:12

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

Timeless Appeal posted:

I feel like Texas, Georgia, Michigan, and New Jersey would actually make sense to me in giving a pretty decent cross section both regionally and demographically.

Three of those are going to be pretty expensive to advertise in (Texas, GA, NJ) and will likely suppress any insurgency campaign due to it. Michigan might work but that state is losing its goddamn mind.

# ¿ May 8, 2022 15:20

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

Gumball Gumption posted:

The cursive graffiti feels like a live laugh love mom read the "Aren't you tired of being nice? Don't you just want to go ape poo poo" meme.

Feels very false flag to me. In before they announce the assistant director of the place is being arraigned for arson and filing false statements.

# ¿ May 8, 2022 19:49

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

Young Freud posted:

Fetal eviction notice: every uterus is a rental property, that deadbeat fetus hasn't paid you rent for a month, got a court order and a call to the sheriff's department to remove them from the premise.

Better yet, incorporate your uterus as an airbnb, corporations are people, but can't face the death penalty or jail time. Evict deadbeat with no ability to pay. Fine me and I'll declare bankruptcy and reorganize under another name.

# ¿ May 9, 2022 17:19

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

BougieBitch posted:

Edit: Basically, I'd rather live in the world where we have to keep flipping coins than the one where we always lose, but there is no way to walk this back to a functional government from here because this is basically the endpoint of governmental entropy - we get the fash or a revolution with uncertain results within a pretty small timeframe from here, and the revolution isn't guaranteed to be a positive step either

So why the hell aren't leftists joining the ranks of the military/national guard/police in droves right now? They call for revolution all the time, but the most they do is drill in the woods with like-minded individuals and maybe a few veterans. Police are very poorly staffed right now and where the old excuse of 'one person can't change the whole organization' when you've got 30% of positions vacant that seems like a much better chance of implementing the kind of change you wish to see.

# ¿ May 9, 2022 17:27

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

Mellow Seas posted:

Those lousy dems, trying to prevent government officials from being assassinated!

What a bunch of wimps! They should be ENCOURAGING people to assassinate government officials!

Interesting that they didn't vote for increased security after one of the justices got no-poo poo mugged while jogging, or another got held up by machete point while on vacation but this not even passed yet leaked draft decision warrants a whole new law?

# ¿ May 9, 2022 19:58

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

Ghost Leviathan posted:

The guy looking on as George Floyd murdered a man had joined the police hoping to change them from within.

The organisation has developed defenses against that a long, long time ago. Those trying to make the police anything but an instrument of state-sponsored murder are co-opted, ejected or killed quickly.

So what about the National Guard/armed forces?

# ¿ May 9, 2022 20:01

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

selec posted:

�Why aren�t leftists, devoid of national leadership or organizing strategy, constantly monitored and literally hosed by undercover police, joining these hardened, ideologically-driven organizations where they will be forced to become the foot soldiers of capital?�

Dawg, you first. Spend a few years cuffing kids for truancy and busting heads just to be ready for when the Revolution comes, or be ratted out by your fellow officers, locked in a mental hospital or worse.

I'm too old.

# ¿ May 9, 2022 20:07

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

Cranappleberry posted:

Turns out companies that have a monopoly on infrastructure is not good.

I remember when a town became it's own ISP and paid for their own infrastructure because they decided fast internet should not only be a utility, but a government-provided service.

The ISPs didn't like that and lobbied to have stopped.

https://www.yahoo.com/now/n-c-residents-still-fight-195327884.html

They were setting up municipal freenets as early as the 1980s.

# ¿ May 10, 2022 15:44

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

-Blackadder- posted:

This gets lost in the whole discussion and I feel like this can't be emphasized enough. I don't think the argument that nothing will fundamentally change (which obviously isn't even true anyway), because abortion was already legal in some states and de-facto illegal in others is going to matter to people in the slightest. People's perception/feelings tend to motivate them more than technical reality. Abortion is a big deal in the public consciousness, it's one of the issues that represents social progress and it's been legal for 50 years. You really can't underestimate the broad psychological impact of having something like that suddenly snatched away. It feels very much like being transported back to the dark ages.

This is a seriously untenable situation.

I seriously wonder how many of the people saying this isn't a big deal know literally any women at all. Comfortable, surburban women who've already had kids, lesbian couples, teenagers, every goddamn woman I know who hasn't drank the Catholic Kool-Aid sees this as a five-alarm fire and wants to know what to do. College kids are sharing how to sign up to vote by mail. And this is in deep blue Illinois where abortion rights are ostensibly 'safe.' Nobody feels safe. They all know this is the warning shot across the bow and deep, DEEP poo poo is coming if Republicans hold office again.

# ¿ May 10, 2022 15:51

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

Nonsense posted:

I�m glad Pelosi clarified after farting out wanting a strong Republican Party in the past. I am unsure how much of the Republican Party ever was how she remembers them.

George Bush, Sr. was known as 'Rubbers George' when he served in the U.S. House for his advocating for family planning, namely condom use. He was a NorthEast rock-ribbed Rockefeller Republican.

Pre-Reagan, they absolutely did exist. The Great Realignment after Johnson and the Civil Rights movement changed that and Bush Sr. was probably the last gasp. You'll remember James Jeffords switching from Republican to indepdent in 2001 and cacuasing with Dems which flipped control of the Senate. There's still a few left here and there.

# ¿ May 10, 2022 15:57

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

Willa Rogers posted:

Many of us have been pointing out for three decades how the gasoline of Casey was leading to this five-alarm fire & making abortion virtually impossible to obtain in red states, only to see Democrats joining the right in banning "partial-birth" abortions, deciding that they had higher priorities than codifying bodily autonomy, and--to this very day!--continuing to campaign for anti-choice Dems.

It's kind of jarring to see people getting verklempt now while Congress was playing their fiddle for the last 30 years.

eta:

"Only two," lolol forever.

Most people don't pay attention except for a few weeks every four years. Nebulous future risks are just plain not on most people's radar; its part of the human condition and why climate change has been so hard to fight.

I mean, what do you want, a cookie? Here, here's your cookie and your pat on the head. You and those screaming for decades were right, Willa. Bask in the glow of your victory.

Now what are you going to do about it after you're done 'I told you so!'ing?

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ¿ May 10, 2022 17:04

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

Heck Yes! Loam! posted:

I didn't frame anything that way. You said yourself it was jarring to have people get involved now instead of some time in the past. It is frustrating that people have been asleep at the wheel for my entire life, but that's just been normal for most people my age. I was born after Roe and was only of voting age right in the middle of Bush's second term. Abortion has been under attack my entire life, and nobody's done jack to protect it despite the obvious assault. it's no different than the litany of other topics that have the same story. climate change, voting rights, etc.

Anyone that decides to get pissed off should be welcomed, especially considering many of the people this conversation started were younger individuals.

This.

# ¿ May 10, 2022 17:51

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

selec posted:

Sure, get into the streets. Join a movement. Just don�t be a vote scold or dismiss leftists out of hand anymore, or attempt to bait them into getting probed. You�re on our side now, that�s great, but you need to respect your forebears.

How old even are you, dude.

# ¿ May 10, 2022 17:55

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

Willa Rogers posted:

Kind of stunned at almost one out of every four Democrats being stone-cold racists according to that poll.

Are you being sarcastic? Like Reagan Democrats have been a thing since... Reagan.

# ¿ May 16, 2022 15:51

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

Is someone pouring too much salt into the Senate Democrat's cafeteria food?

That is 3 Democratic Senators and 1 likely Democratic Senate nominee having a stroke in 2 months. All of them were young and two of them in great physical shape otherwise.

https://twitter.com/ChrisVanHollen/status/1526027910783680513

How many of them had covid?

# ¿ May 16, 2022 16:28

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

According to the poll demographic info, it isn't necessarily Reagan Democrats. Non-white Democrats are more likely to think that immigration will result in "native born Americans losing economic, political, and cultural influence."

The vast majority of the total comes from white Republicans, but among Democrats, it is disproportionately people with lower education, incomes, and people of color.

Not that surprising, because there has been a long history of "their taking our jobs" rhetoric around blue collar labor for a while. The AFL-CIO was extremely anti-immigration up until the 80's.

There is also a perception that immigrants take lower wage jobs. Illegal immigrants generally do, but legal immigrants are much better educated and compensated than the average American. They tend to get mashed together into one entity when talking about immigrants and jobs, though.

Yeah, ok, that makes sense. I have heard a lot of resentment among black friends and acquaintances about immigrants competing for the same jobs and willing to do it for cheaper. Even African immigrants (which is a whole other kettle of fish). And I think a lot of it severely underestimates the animosity of various Central/South American countries for each other's inhabitants. We tend to lump them all together under the Hispanic banner but there are definite differences just like there are among European countries. A lot of people of Mexican descent in Texas hating on the most recent immigrants from C/S America as 'thieves' and 'gangsters' and what have you as one example. My husband's parents disapproved of him dating a Korean girl back in the day (they're Chinese) and her parents feelings were mutual.

I think we're coming up on the limits of our understanding of racism when faced with the current reality of intra-racial bigotry and discrimination. Its becoming more like 19th century America where you had ethnic rivalries and established populations vs. the newly arrived.

One thing that never changes is that every population of immigrants once established just can't wait to pull the ladder up behind them, sigh.

# ¿ May 16, 2022 16:46

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

Just one poll, but McCormick has plummeted and the absolutely insane lady who has been steadily gaining in the polls is now tied with Dr. Oz in the primary. Voting is tomorrow.

https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1526251472211542016

Just a few highlights from Barnette:

- Thought Obama was a muslim.
- Wants to send gay kids to conversion camps.
- Said black people have a slave mentality still and want to get on welfare to avoid providing for their family (she is also black)
- Called Muslims "animals" and said they need to rounded up and interned or deported unless they prove they are safe.
- Said transgenderism is not real and the product of demonic energy infiltrating society.
- Wants to put armed guards at the border to shoot people trying to cross illegally.

The whole 'demonic trans kids' thing is rather popular among the brainworms set. Baphomet is the big ringleader apparently.

# ¿ May 16, 2022 18:35

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

FlamingLiberal posted:

Love that in blue states, Dem gerrymanders are illegal, whereas in at least some red states, GOP gerrymanders are fine

Illinois called. They say 'lol.'

# ¿ May 17, 2022 17:47

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

Zophar posted:

If I recall correctly a lot of CARES act money was contingent on making an effort to keep people employed, so it's speculated a lot of the "now hiring" is for ghost positions the businesses never had any intention of filling.

That's a very interesting hypothesis.

# ¿ May 18, 2022 17:49

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

Vahakyla posted:

I read this politico article posted in this thread: https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/05/13/madison-cawthorn-injury-profile-00032002
And after it, I went on a deep dive to Cawthorn's candidacy times and he was vastly different. Praising AOC, saying "black lives matter", and appearing as a fairly level headed GOP-er, and not at all really crazy. I thought that it's crazy how much long life in politics has changed him and then...

holy poo poo it was January 3rd of last year. Dude's been in for bit over a year, and it's like two decades of scandals, craziness, and becoming not even a husk of the type of image he wanted to portray as a candidate. gently caress that was rapid.

He was lying about all that poo poo hth. The mask just came off.

# ¿ May 18, 2022 19:23

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# ¿ May 11, 2024 20:24

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

Heck Yes! Loam! posted:

Hey Biden finally decided to do the right thing far too late to make a difference

https://twitter.com/edokeefe/status/1527046436004700161

He needs to do price controls on food next. The beef market is being so nakedly greedy they're even talking about it on the drat morning farm report.

# ¿ May 18, 2022 23:19

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > US CE Spring 2022: I'm convinced it's useless which is why I argue about it all day every day

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